FerrariChat discusses NSX

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I dont understand what they mean when they say the NSX has no "SOUL"???

Is it because they dont break down as much?
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[This message has been edited by gomaidy (edited 15 October 2001).]
 
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Originally posted by gomaidy:
I dont understand what they mean when they say the NSX has no "SOUL"???

Is it because they dont break down as much?
confused.gif


Very common and not just in referring to the NSX. I've used it myself when referring to Lexus and Infiniti automobiles. Example: Q45. Great car. Boring as all get out. Japanese manufacturers have long had well-deserved reputations for being great copiers not necessarily great designers. Not saying that this applies to the NSX. I think that, in this day and age, it is almost one of those things that people keep repeating because they have always heard other people saying it.
Having said that I think Honda really missed the boat in marketing the NSX and not capitalizing on the F1 and, later, CART successes. Remember the special editions that Porsche used to come out with to commemorate racing championships in the mid 70s? How come Honda couldn't do an F1 Championship edition? Heck, all that would have required would have been a special color and a plaque on the dash.



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The NSX Model List Page
 
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It's because we didn't spend $170,000 for an $85,000 car with an $85,000 hood ornament.
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IOW - this business of "soul" is all marketing hype.
 
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My definition of SOUL would be thrilling to drive. Something that puts a grin on your face.
If by SOUL they mean thrilling to drive, I would agree. Although the NSX is a blast, I'm sure it's not the blast to drive a 360 would be. For that matter, there are probably very, very few cars that are more thrilling to drive than one of those. Even a 911 Turbo lacks thrill compared to a 360, even though it's faster.
 
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Although the NSX is a blast, I'm sure it's not the blast to drive a 360 would be.

I disagree... although I must admit, I haven't driven a 360. But I've driven an F355. Nice car - in fact, notable more for its similarity to the NSX than its differences. A blast to drive? Sure, just like the NSX.

It didn't have more soul. It was just LOUDER, that's all.
 

bb6

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Ive seen this "soul" issue discussed on Ducati forums at great length in comparing these bikes to their Japanese counterparts.
Being a Ducati owner and fan, I would have to say riding the Ducati was/is a much more visceral feeling, the sound of the V-Twin, the desmo valve "whine"!
Then again, you also pay a [mild in comparison to a NSX vs. a 360/F355] premium over a similarily equipped Japanese bike, however, the aesthetics of the Ducati, the fit and finish, welds, frame construction, suspension components are all top notch, something you will regularly go out to the garage just to look at, and the bikes also come w/ their respective gremlins! Also, the rarity, desirability, engineering inginuity and limited numbers of Ducatis in comparison to the gross mass production of Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha sportbikes also make them that much more unique. Something that the NSX clearly shares w/ Ferrari, Im not sure about this, but I wouldn't be suprised if, since it's introduction the 360 Modena has out sold the NSX in its respective years!

That said, I would have to say that the discrimination b/w a Japanese bike and a Ducati is much clearer than that b/w say the NSX's and say an F355's? Simply b/c there is no direct Japanese counterpart to a Ducati, as there is w/ the NSX!

And, having driven an NSX and ridden in a 360, I must admit I felt just as giddy and excited in both! In my eyes they are BOTH super/exotic cars, however, I wouldn't mind owning one of each! One thing that has always puzzled me is why Honda never released a Senna edition NSX? I know that the NSX-R was built in the spirt of what Senna thought the NSX should be, but nothing to commemorate his involvement in developing the car was ever produced, anyone know why?

[This message has been edited by bb6 (edited 15 October 2001).]

[This message has been edited by bb6 (edited 15 October 2001).]
 
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Originally posted by bb6:
One thing that has always puzzled me is why Honda never released a Senna edition NSX? I know that the NSX-R was built in the spirt of what Senna thought the NSX should be, but nothing to commemorate his involvement in developing the car was ever produced, anyone know why?

Yeh, I've wondered about that, even while writing my earlier post on this thread. I can only guess that it had to do with licensing, if indeed Honda ever even thought of it.
I don't know about marketing of his name prior to his death in '94 but The Senna Foundation have handled everything since then and are very protective. I used to know the NY representative of the foundation but have lost touch with him in the last couple of years.


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I actually posted a message on that topic in that Ferrari forum. I didn't want to bring it up on this forum because the topic has been gone over before, ie. the topic of Ferrari vs. NSX and this "lack of soul" business. I feel the NSX is every bit as good as a Ferrari, just lacking the cachet. I'm hoping to get a 360 Modena in the future and, if finances permitting, be able to keep my NSX as a daily driver. In the meantime, the NSX will keep me well entertained and happy.

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'00 NSX-T, silverstone/blk, #252
 

sjs

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Originally posted by gomaidy:
I dont understand what they mean when they say the NSX has no "SOUL"???

Is it because they dont break down as much?
confused.gif


I'd say Yes. With cars I tend to thing of "soul" as a euphemism for things like quirky, finicky, problematic, etc. Like using the word character with a hint of sarcasm. The original VW Beetle had soul, the new one does not. Most British stuff has soul, its how the stuffy Brits justify driving something so unreliable and under performing. The NSX is so “right” and so reliable, that it doesn’t fit the long established image of a sports car.
 
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If Ferrari had started out being owned by Fiat they wouldn't have any cachet! They'd still have soul however.
I understand the whole "soul" thing but it is real hard to explain to other people. I mean, how do you convince an accountant of any benefit that can't be explained in pure dollars and sense? How do I explain the difference in feeling between a Lexus and a Mercedes? Hard to explain but the differences are definitely there.
As for Ferrari and soul - given the choice between a 355 and an NSX - the NSX wins hands down. I've spent up to 8 hours in a 355 at a clip and hated it. NSX vs. 360? Now it becomes a financial decision... not really a fair comparison anymore.

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The NSX Model List Page
 
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anyone else notice the gentle bashing of the nsx on the ferrari forum? pretty similar to what is going on right here.

its human nature to want to justify your decision, and both forums are highly biased. I for one am able to truly appreciate each for their respecive strengths, I would challenge others to do so.
 

sjs

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Originally posted by lemansnsx:
If Ferrari had started out being owned by Fiat they wouldn't have any cachet! They'd still have soul however.
I understand the whole "soul" thing but it is real hard to explain to other people. I mean, how do you convince an accountant of any benefit that can't be explained in pure dollars and sense? How do I explain the difference in feeling between a Lexus and a Mercedes? Hard to explain but the differences are definitely there.
As for Ferrari and soul - given the choice between a 355 and an NSX - the NSX wins hands down. I've spent up to 8 hours in a 355 at a clip and hated it. NSX vs. 360? Now it becomes a financial decision... not really a fair comparison anymore.

Yea, I've driven plenty of cars and know what you're talking about, but to me that's not about the car having soul, it's about what the car does to stir your soul. It can be something very in your face like everything about a Diablo, or very subtle like the difference between the Mercedes and then Lexus (neither of which I'd own, at least of the larger ones I've driven.) Anyway, different thing to me, but perhaps not to you and the Ferrari guys.
 

sjs

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Originally posted by justin hall:
anyone else notice the gentle bashing of the nsx on the ferrari forum? pretty similar to what is going on right here.

No bashing from me. I'd love to have a Ferrari, even one of the "lesser" models. Sadly I have limited money and limited space and just as importantly, limited time to enjoy driving them. So, the NSX was the perfect solution.
 
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I find it ironic that Ferrari owners talk about the "soul" of their cars, but when it comes to a Ferrari designed by Bertone they are not considered a true Ferarri by purists. A good example of ths can be seen with the 308GT/4 and Mondial. Ask any Ferrari purist about these two cars and they will give an excuse about how they aren't "true" performers because they weren't a Pinnanfarina design.
 

sjs

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Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
I find it ironic that Ferrari owners talk about the "soul" of their cars, but when it comes to a Ferrari designed by Bertone they are not considered a true Ferarri by purists. A good example of ths can be seen with the 308GT/4 and Mondial. Ask any Ferrari purist about these two cars and they will give an excuse about how they aren't "true" performers because they weren't a Pinnanfarina design.

OK, now I'll bash. Personally, I find the Mondial butt ugly no matter who designed it. That's one of the few I would not wish to have.
 
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Ferrari's do have a "soul", but so does the NSX. The difference is considered "the ghost in the machine". If anyone here is a big fan of anime, then you already know what I am talking about. The "ghost in the machine" is a reference to a machines ability to hold emotional and passive control over those who work with it. Obviously a machine can have no "soul", but how many times have you been in a situation with your NSX that made you feel you were just there as a witness, letting the car control your actions as opposed to you controlling the car. Many racers spend most of their training becoming intimate with their cars and feeling out all their quirks. A Ferrari has soul. A NSX has soul. But face it...those souls, like their makers, are very different. Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of this phrase when referring to a car?
 
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Originally posted by Juice:
Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of this phrase when referring to a car?

I've heard the phrase, though not in those exact words "Ghost in a machine," in European Car about the 360 Modena. I think it's a wonderful way to describe a car...and extension of ones body and soul...which NSX and Ferrari definitely are.

BB6-Ive seen this "soul" issue discussed on Ducati forums at great length in comparing these bikes to their Japanese counterparts.
Being a Ducati owner and fan, I would have to say riding the Ducati was/is a much more visceral feeling, the sound of the V-Twin, the desmo valve "whine"!

I fell in love with Ducati after I saw them in the movie "Fled." Absolutely beautiful machines.
 
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I believe that anime is "Ghost in a Shell", not "Ghost in a machine".
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Originally posted by Juice:
Ferrari's do have a "soul", but so does the NSX. The difference is considered "the ghost in the machine". If anyone here is a big fan of anime, then you already know what I am talking about. The "ghost in the machine" is a reference to a machines ability to hold emotional and passive control over those who work with it. Obviously a machine can have no "soul", but how many times have you been in a situation with your NSX that made you feel you were just there as a witness, letting the car control your actions as opposed to you controlling the car. Many racers spend most of their training becoming intimate with their cars and feeling out all their quirks. A Ferrari has soul. A NSX has soul. But face it...those souls, like their makers, are very different. Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of this phrase when referring to a car?
 
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I think the Modena is a beautiful car. However we are and have always been conditioned to worship "Ferrari's" If you could take the Modena, forget all the "conditioning", and preconcieved notions, and lets say put a Yugo, or a Dodge badge on it, would we all still have the same opinion of the body style?

Hmmm..... let me think? Yeah its still beautiful, but I would not be running out to buy one if it were a Dodge or a Yugo.
 
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Originally posted by lemansnsx:
I understand the whole "soul" thing but it is real hard to explain to other people.

Agreed......

Isn't it all about what other people think of the make?
If a Ferrari and an NSX would be next to eachother, the majority of the crowd would be drooling (like to own) over the ferarri.
Now, lets say, the NSX would have the name of 'soul', and the Ferrari wouldn't.....
Exactly, the crowd would be drooling over the NSX.

So, it's all about what other people think of it.

Quiet funny, that a lot of people already told me that they rather have my NSX then a Ferrari..........


Just my .02

Dutchy (will have an 360 one day)
 
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Originally posted by 19inchNSX:
I believe that anime is "Ghost in a Shell", not "Ghost in a machine".
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That is the correct title. I'm just referring to the content. At least everyone is still awake and paying attention!
 
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Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
I find it ironic that Ferrari owners talk about the "soul" of their cars, but when it comes to a Ferrari designed by Bertone they are not considered a true Ferarri by purists. A good example of ths can be seen with the 308GT/4 and Mondial.

Yeah, I don't think anyone should be too worried about Ferrari guys acting snobish when it comes to the NSX. They disown plenty of their own brethren - let's not forget the more recent 348 (aka Fiero-lookalike).

On a different note, if money was no object I wouldn't think twice about taking a 360 over an NSX.
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Marc
 
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