• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

First track day in '20 NSX

Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
93
Location
Cave Creek, Az & Newport Beach, CA
I thougt I'd share my recent track day at Willow Springs which was over a week ago. The corona virus was just starting to hit the headlines and it dampened turn out which was down about 30% to West Coast Racing Club that hold two events a year. We had about 100 participants.

There are four run groups, Red group are track prepared cars drivers have extensive experience with full safety equipment and unrestricted passing. Blue which are mostly high performance sports and GT licensed street cars with drivers having track experience,(Porsche's, Ferrari's, McLarens, Mustang's, Zo6, Camaro's, Vipers and some vintage race cars). Passing limited front and back straights.
Next is Yellow and Green groups drivers have less track experience or less fast cars or fast cars with novice drivers. I run Blue group as it would be a good barometer against cars I knew were fast.

I elected to drive the 400 miles from Scottsdale AZ to Lancaster CA as a good way to familiarize my self with the NSX. Having heard that it is track ready and no break in required I still had it checked out by my race shop Dyno Comp in Scottsdale AZ which also preformed the tech inspection. I tried to get specs on the Acura heavy duty brake fluid but to no avail. I flushed it and added Motul 660. I usually run Castrol SRF but wanted to see how the Motul performed and save a few bucks.

The long drive was pretty uneventful except for the number of thumbs up I got. Car generates a lot of positive looks. Several people approached me at the gas pumps what is it?
Hit some heavy rain and wow great handling. This would be a primer for my first run session which was in the wet.
So the first session was wet to damp with temps in the high 40s. Turn 2 is an up hill sweeper which I run about 85-90 in the dry with R tires in my AMG GTS. No problem running 75 in the wet. The handling is quite good and no camber dialed in. Very confidence inspiring. Lower speeds in this session didn't allow me to use the brakes hard. The shocks are fantastic. Usually street shock's can't handle the high speed corners but these do. Wow!

Second session track was dry and cold. Pushed the car more in turn two and saw 85 mph! Wow that was great. The visibility is second only to an open wheel car and you can really spot your turn in points. Steering is direct felt like a slot car. I didn't notice the weight people talk about. Turn 8 I could place the car any where on the track and it gripped. If I was a bit off line no problem I could be a little sloppy and still hammer the apex. That is a high speed right hander that generates a huge amount of side force and speeds up to 130 mph. I was prolly only going 120-123. Turn 9 is a decreasing radius turn which causes most drivers to want to turn in early which will send you off the track. Key is wait and dive into the apex and hammer it on to the front straight. A couple of times I noticed a little bit of oversteer coming out of 9 but the all wheel drive saved my bacon. Could have been tire pressures too.

Third session track was dry and 50's but now windy. Got into a duel with an old McLaren race car (67) with big Chevy power. I could catch him on the straights and gain about a car length but the braking zone was cooking my brake pads. I have the iron brakes. I think it needs a better pad for the track. Better to back off then wreck two cars. Car is really fast from turn 5 to 8. Car is faster than a Shelby GT350 and Cayman GT4. Needs a little work in the tire department to stay with a track prepped AMG GTS that have been tuned to 600 hp.
No issues with the car it was bullet proof all day. I was impressed with the stock ContiSport6's. While not an R compound it performed very well. The all wheel driver is incredible as you don't need a lot of camber to get around the corners so you can drive a street alignment and not burn through the tires. I was told it was the first NSX they have ever had at West Coast Racing events. I can't count how many positive comments. Only negative was a guy who told me has a Gen1 and didn't like them but was changing his mind as it's the first Gen2 he's seen in person!

Sunday- rained out so headed home. So I got over hour and a half of track time. Headed home car is dirty but shinny side up.

I thought the fuel tank might be a bit small but averaged 22 mpg on the way back and enough range where it was over 300 miles before sweating to get gas. Seats were great and I mean this is the best combination street track I've ever been in. I noticed that there is no AM band on the radio, just plugged in iPhone and listened to my library.

Jimmy aka sled driver
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
359
Location
Redondo Beach, CA USA
Fantastic write-up--thanks for sharing!

You are obviously track-experienced (I never would have thought about special brake fluid, for example--I'd clearly be in the green group), so am surprised you went with the iron rotors rather than the CCBs. Any reason for that?
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
93
Location
Cave Creek, Az & Newport Beach, CA
DJ,
Great question.
There is a lot of controversy over the iron vs carbon ceramic brakes among the track junkies. I have an AMG GTS with the carbon ceramics and they are phenomenal and I've had no problems. As a consumable like tires and brake pads, CC rotors become the most expensive part of the equation at around $16-20K for a set of rotors. In a perfect world CC brakes last a long time. Manufactures claim they will last 100K miles on the street. But when subjected to track use that number drops exponentially depending on track use and I've heard 10K miles. Also one errant tire change where you ding a rotor wrestling a wheel on the car is very costly. I hate to say it but my car was already spec'd and I chose it over a CC car mainly because I like Casino White with red leather.
I had read a lot of negative comments about the car which didn't jive with my first test drive impressions. Now that I've properly wrung out the car I can conclude most are not worthy to own this spectacular engineering piece.
If I decide to do more track days I'd upgrade the pads and see how that works. Last point I forgot to mention the duel clutch transmission is better than anything Mercedes makes and as good as the latest model Porsches I've driven.
Jimmy aka sled driver
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 17, 2020
Messages
86
Great write-up, Jimmy! Glad to see you had such a positive experience.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
509
Location
Maryland / South Dakota
I do miss track days - back when I had a dedicated car for it we had a great time. They are so much work. I ran in red groups with different organizations, usually with my wife in the seat next to me. We were out there having a blast.

Many of my friends with challenge cars swapped their CCBs for iron rotors. Mine had stock iron rotors and stopping was incredible - sure the slicks helped too. I used Motul RBF600, never had a problem.

My wife keeps asking if I've thought more about taking the NSX on track. And knowing the beating it would take I'm still not ready to do it. Knowing me, don't think I could drive around the track "slowly." I have the CCBs and they are a concern if something gets damaged. Plus I sold my trailer and getting home is also high on my mind. Maybe sometime. WG is about 4 hours away, beautiful drive up there, but those blue bushes are close.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
119
Location
Iowa
Jimmy, curious what tire pressures you ran. I have PS4 and have been disappointed in them. I start at 30 psi cold. They are 40-41 before the end of a 20 minute run and start to get pretty slippery after 38 or so. I can't seem to find the sweet spot with them. R888R are likely my next tire, but I do hit rainy track days a couple of times a summer and the R's on my 930 are scary in the rain, so I'm hesitant to go there either.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
93
Location
Cave Creek, Az & Newport Beach, CA
Steve,
To answer your question the ContiSport Contact6 was specifically designed for the NSX. My wife has the Conti's on her GLC AMG 63 and I didn't like them as we burned through a front set in 8500 miles. In fairness I had great run up to Peyson AZ and pretty sure that was the reason. But on the NSX different story great tire. I started at recommended 32 all around after first session they were up to 37 psi on left 36 right (WSIR has mostly right turns) adjusted down to 32's hot and seemed to stick pretty well all day.
Before you toss your PS4's (assuming their not totally heat cycled) I'd do some investigation.
I had my shop check the alignment on my 2020 NSX which had 268 miles. The caster was a little out so we put in within spec. Here's what I do.
1. Check the alignment to get a benchmark.
2. I Use a tire pyrometer to see your temps. (inside, middle, outside) try adjusting tire temps based upon tire temps.
often times greasy conditions is heat from a tire not making complete contact.
3. The PS4 have a wear rating of 300 which is not really a track tire. Prolly getting a lot of tread squirm building up the heat. You won't know unless you have temps.

Toyo R888 work well with a lot of camber. I ran them on my 96 Porsche trubo and liked them and they should be stellar on your 930. Don't think they'll work well on the NSX as you need to really shim the suspension to get any negative camber.

My next tire upgrade would be the PS2 Track Contact . Since no one is rally doing R&D this will give me the info to dial it in.

Let the board know how you do.
Jimmy is out.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
119
Location
Iowa
Great info. I am running stock alignment that was verified after the fuel tank recall. I've not considered going that low on hot pressures, but it's worth a try. It's definitely slippage overheating them later in sessions. I'm not after optimal lap times, just having fun, but it does get frustrating when the car gets squirly just when I'm into my best rhythm. At Road America top speed for me is just over 150, so those pressures are probably a little low there, but I'll definitely play with it. The camber shims look pretty easy to swap back and forth for different track/street setups.

Hoping for quarantine relief soon!
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
381
Location
San Antonio
I'm about to do my first track day at Cota in my 2018 NSX and am wondering on a scale of 1-10 how important it is to swap out the brake fluid? I don't plan to try to set any lap records but don't want a brake failure at the end of the straight. My car has the factory ceramic brakes with titanium exhaust, down pipes and a JB4 tune. Thank you for any advice you can give me.

Blaine


I thougt I'd share my recent track day at Willow Springs which was over a week ago. The corona virus was just starting to hit the headlines and it dampened turn out which was down about 30% to West Coast Racing Club that hold two events a year. We had about 100 participants.

There are four run groups, Red group are track prepared cars drivers have extensive experience with full safety equipment and unrestricted passing. Blue which are mostly high performance sports and GT licensed street cars with drivers having track experience,(Porsche's, Ferrari's, McLarens, Mustang's, Zo6, Camaro's, Vipers and some vintage race cars). Passing limited front and back straights.
Next is Yellow and Green groups drivers have less track experience or less fast cars or fast cars with novice drivers. I run Blue group as it would be a good barometer against cars I knew were fast.

I elected to drive the 400 miles from Scottsdale AZ to Lancaster CA as a good way to familiarize my self with the NSX. Having heard that it is track ready and no break in required I still had it checked out by my race shop Dyno Comp in Scottsdale AZ which also preformed the tech inspection. I tried to get specs on the Acura heavy duty brake fluid but to no avail. I flushed it and added Motul 660. I usually run Castrol SRF but wanted to see how the Motul performed and save a few bucks.

The long drive was pretty uneventful except for the number of thumbs up I got. Car generates a lot of positive looks. Several people approached me at the gas pumps what is it?
Hit some heavy rain and wow great handling. This would be a primer for my first run session which was in the wet.
So the first session was wet to damp with temps in the high 40s. Turn 2 is an up hill sweeper which I run about 85-90 in the dry with R tires in my AMG GTS. No problem running 75 in the wet. The handling is quite good and no camber dialed in. Very confidence inspiring. Lower speeds in this session didn't allow me to use the brakes hard. The shocks are fantastic. Usually street shock's can't handle the high speed corners but these do. Wow!

Second session track was dry and cold. Pushed the car more in turn two and saw 85 mph! Wow that was great. The visibility is second only to an open wheel car and you can really spot your turn in points. Steering is direct felt like a slot car. I didn't notice the weight people talk about. Turn 8 I could place the car any where on the track and it gripped. If I was a bit off line no problem I could be a little sloppy and still hammer the apex. That is a high speed right hander that generates a huge amount of side force and speeds up to 130 mph. I was prolly only going 120-123. Turn 9 is a decreasing radius turn which causes most drivers to want to turn in early which will send you off the track. Key is wait and dive into the apex and hammer it on to the front straight. A couple of times I noticed a little bit of oversteer coming out of 9 but the all wheel drive saved my bacon. Could have been tire pressures too.

Third session track was dry and 50's but now windy. Got into a duel with an old McLaren race car (67) with big Chevy power. I could catch him on the straights and gain about a car length but the braking zone was cooking my brake pads. I have the iron brakes. I think it needs a better pad for the track. Better to back off then wreck two cars. Car is really fast from turn 5 to 8. Car is faster than a Shelby GT350 and Cayman GT4. Needs a little work in the tire department to stay with a track prepped AMG GTS that have been tuned to 600 hp.
No issues with the car it was bullet proof all day. I was impressed with the stock ContiSport6's. While not an R compound it performed very well. The all wheel driver is incredible as you don't need a lot of camber to get around the corners so you can drive a street alignment and not burn through the tires. I was told it was the first NSX they have ever had at West Coast Racing events. I can't count how many positive comments. Only negative was a guy who told me has a Gen1 and didn't like them but was changing his mind as it's the first Gen2 he's seen in person!

Sunday- rained out so headed home. So I got over hour and a half of track time. Headed home car is dirty but shinny side up.

I thought the fuel tank might be a bit small but averaged 22 mpg on the way back and enough range where it was over 300 miles before sweating to get gas. Seats were great and I mean this is the best combination street track I've ever been in. I noticed that there is no AM band on the radio, just plugged in iPhone and listened to my library.

Jimmy aka sled driver
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
93
Location
Cave Creek, Az & Newport Beach, CA
Blane,
I have not run COTA but have watched lota video so my answer is going to be based on what I would do for an unknown track. Given you've increased the power which will give you higher speeds it seems logical that you want to attend to the deceleration. With higher speeds comes more heat to the braking system. Carbon Ceramics thrive with more heat which is transmitted to the fluid. If you are using stock fluid with unknown boiling specs and/or haven't changed your fluid since 2018 now would be a good time to change out to SRF or Motul 660. The 3800 lbs the NC1 isn't light so all the more reason to consider this a must track prep item. Let us know how the ceramics work out.
Bottom line change the fluid.
Jimmy aka sled driver
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Messages
22,331
Location
Pa
The only issues at nsxpo I have seen with the ccb's at heavy braking tracks like cota is high temp warnings which put the system in a limp type mode until cooled down.I would agree using the highest temp rated fluid that is compatable with the system.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
381
Location
San Antonio
Thank you for the advice. I will schedule a brake fluid change next week. Really have high hopes for this platform to do well on track. I will put together a full write up.

Blaine

blane,
i have not run cota but have watched lota video so my answer is going to be based on what i would do for an unknown track. Given you've increased the power which will give you higher speeds it seems logical that you want to attend to the deceleration. With higher speeds comes more heat to the braking system. Carbon ceramics thrive with more heat which is transmitted to the fluid. If you are using stock fluid with unknown boiling specs and/or haven't changed your fluid since 2018 now would be a good time to change out to srf or motul 660. The 3800 lbs the nc1 isn't light so all the more reason to consider this a must track prep item. Let us know how the ceramics work out.
Bottom line change the fluid.
Jimmy aka sled driver
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
381
Location
San Antonio
Is this warning light specific to the brakes discs? If so i didn't know the car had this capability.

the only issues at nsxpo i have seen with the ccb's at heavy braking tracks like cota is high temp warnings which put the system in a limp type mode until cooled down.i would agree using the highest temp rated fluid that is compatable with the system.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Messages
22,331
Location
Pa
I'm not an owner of NC1 but I believe there is a specific warning..don't know if it comes up in the infotainment screen or has its own dedicated real-estate...
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
May 9, 2001
Messages
1,609
Location
Dexter, MI 48130
Make sure and read the manual about tracking the car. Make sure that you take out the flat tire sealant from the trunk
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Messages
22,331
Location
Pa
yessssssssssssss especially since you are modded....hopefully all heat shields were reused...
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Messages
22,331
Location
Pa
For those wondering why we are mentioning this we had a rear compartment fire in a modded NC1 at last xpo on track...also a modded MC 570 burst into flames...
 
Last edited:
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
303
Location
Houston, TX
Warning comes up in the center of the dash and then the brake peddle simulates hot brakes by increasing the peddle throw (mushy peddle). At least that is what happened to me at Summit Point. I'm CC.

I'm not an owner of NC1 but I believe there is a specific warning..don't know if it comes up in the infotainment screen or has its own dedicated real-estate...
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jan 30, 2001
Messages
22,331
Location
Pa
Warning comes up in the center of the dash and then the brake peddle simulates hot brakes by increasing the peddle throw (mushy peddle). At least that is what happened to me at Summit Point. I'm CC.

yes and I thought that odd.... I incorrectly viewed heat as more a friend of cc than an enemy....although maybe due to poor heat dissipation/mitigation related to design challenges they had to design a warning system...
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 16, 2019
Messages
5
Location
AZ
Sled -

Have you done any camber adjustments? I got 4 track days out of my Conti 6's, and they wore on the outer edges. The tires also seem to give up the grip after 2 days! My pressure increase pretty much the same as yours, but I only dropped 2-3 psi since the edges were wearing. Considering some camber adjust.
Thanks
T
 
Top