Forced induction Cali style

[TURBO2GO]

OK I don't live in CA, but I may move there. Other than the base CTSC that I own now, what can be done on a CA car? I'm not asking about by the book legal, I am asking what can be realistically done without it being a PITA where I am re-building the motor for an inspection every time.

If I have my CTSC CARB sticker, no one will know if that system includes an intercooler or not. And a FIC will still pass, right? Is there any way of getting a turbo to pass? I want to stay FI and I don't want to get something that will be a total headache. Is the most HP I can get from an intercooled CTSC?

 

[audax]

Without greasing a smog shop owner, you'll never get a turbo to pass the visual inspection. CTSC (or something that looks similar :wink is the only visually passable option.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Are these inspectors smart enough to know the T in NSX-T is not for turbo? Do they actually ask for carb stickers? What about on something like an SOS twin turbo where the turbos are hidden and cats are used? How tough is it to find the right inspector?

 

[RYU]

Wow, lots of ppl moving to Cali. :biggrin:

Agree Audax. I'd say a good portion of SMOG techs will pass the visual portion with the blower. If questions are asked just show them the CARB cert. Part of the benefit of the CTSC kit is that it looks stock especially with the stock intake box.

Turbos on the other hand... That's a whole different animal. Even if the tech doesn't look underneath the car (they don't always do) once they hear the spool and the blow-off valve they usually ask questions. Then your chances slim down significantly. Moral of the story... the CTSC is the most inconspicuous AND you can present the CARB cert if all else fails. I wish someone would reproduce those CARB stickers. Correction, Jon Martin's 3.8L build is the most inconspicuous.

F/IC is the way to go. Though in my low boost car my average off-boost cruising AFR is 14.7 so pair this up with good cats and you should pass - this is with the stock comptech fueling. A high boost setup leaves more chance of being in boost when they do the dyno smog test. Not sure how that will do...

I don't think cooling your IATs will make much of a difference for smog though you'll need to get cats plenty hot for them to be at max efficiency which means your car is probably heat soaking at that point and could potentially run rich (catch 22) if in the middle of summer. The richening problem goes away with the F/IC.

If you're made of money and don't mind the extra complexity of more hoses, heat exchangers, fittings, and the potential for coolant leak, get an aftercooler. If you want to do it on the cheap get meth/water. I have yet to see IAT measurements from an intecooled CTSC tho I hear they heatsoak as well due to lack of surface area. They just buy you more time before they do so (no personal experience here). Then you get the super big cores which make your setup way more conspicuous for the Smog Techs then you've got other problems. I'm just full of answers aren't I?

A stock low boost CTSC with a good set of cats = least amount of headaches.

This is all assuming you don't have 12 friends that knows 12 friends of which one of them can get you passed via the shady way.

 

[RYU]

Are these inspectors smart enough to know the T in NSX-T is not for turbo? Do they actually ask for carb stickers? What about on something like an SOS twin turbo where the turbos are hidden and cats are used? How tough is it to find the right inspector?

If you're not moving near me look here http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123768

If you are I have a couple of smog techs i've been going to since HS. That's all i'm going to say about that.

 

[audax]

Are these inspectors smart enough to know the T in NSX-T is not for turbo? Do they actually ask for carb stickers? What about on something like an SOS twin turbo where the turbos are hidden and cats are used? How tough is it to find the right inspector?

It can be quite hard to find the "right" person. A while back, people started to complain that smog inspectors were purposefully failing their cars in order to sell them on unneeded repairs. In response, the state introduced "test only" smog stations. Those shops can only do smog tests and cannot do any repairs (which supposedly prevents them from suggesting unnecessary repairs, but it doesn't and that's another story). Each time you're due for a smog, you have a chance (~30-40%) of being required to go to a "test only" station. Those stations make their living on smog testing, have stricter government oversight and face heavier penalties for doing anything shady. Hence, it's hard to grease those shops.

I've also heard that if you fail a smog once, you'll be flagged for "test only" smogs indefinitely. My previous car had failed smog once (loose gas cap) under the previous owner, and every year I had to do a "test only" smog.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ok so forget turbo. I will need a different car if I want to go faster.

Ryu where are you at with a meth solution? Now you got me all worried about engine health...

 

[RYU]

Well, my snap ring grenaded my trans... otherwise i'd be on my way to tuning for meth right now. I have all the parts. I'm about 1-2months behind schedule. Maybe 3-4 if I get super into tracking the GSX-R instead It's way cheaper!!!

 

[TURBO2GO]

What's all the "parts" you have?

 

[RYU]

man.. you're gonna make me type this out huh lol

Coolingmist meth/water kit, dual nozzles
F/IC + Boomslang for OBD1
410cc RDX injectors
AEM FPR 1:1
Zietronix logging...

I was hoping Prospeed would have an OBD1 tune for me but he might not so I might have to do this commando style and get real dirty with the OBD1. You won't have this issue with OBD2.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I won't have what problem? I will still need a FIC and tune, right? Why do you have a new FPR?

 

[hks]

It's a lot easier to just pay $250 for a smog. :wink:

*well, unless you know your car blows clean*

 

[TURBO2GO]

And why are you using a FIC when you are OBDI?

 

[Ric]

RYU, would you have CEL issue with F/IC?

F/IC is the way to go.

Turbo,
If you don't want headache, keep the basic CTSC that you have. Any modification to it will create headache or hassle, depending how much patience or money you have or how much you can put up with. However if you move out here and go to car meets and see people doing all kind of stuffs to their FI NSXs, it's hard to not to jump on the band wagon.

 

[NetViper]

Ok so forget turbo. I will need a different car if I want to go faster.

Ryu where are you at with a meth solution? Now you got me all worried about engine health...

How much faster do you need to go?

 

[RYU]

I won't have what problem? I will still need a FIC and tune, right? Why do you have a new FPR?

F/IC on the OBD2 is way easier to tune than F/IC on OBD1. You can't read the Short and Long term fuel trims on the OBD1 like you can on an OBD2. You guys with OBD2 not going with a F/IC in your CTSCs is kind of a shock for me. If you only knew how much easier it is... On OBD1, you're forced to guess what the trims are and compensate for them from many hours of observing and testing and logging. Yes, i'm a glutton for punishment. I was hoping for the prospeed solution to work for us OBD1 guys... I guess it still can if he does it for me.

The FPR is for the bigger injectors and the F/IC.

It's a lot easier to just pay $250 for a smog. :wink:

Easier to pay $250 for a shady smog you mean? Yes, keep advertising that in a public forum and your sources will cease to exist as they lock down on this even more than they have. Think about it man...

RYU, would you have CEL issue with F/IC?

I shouldn't.

Turbo,
If you don't want headache, keep the basic CTSC that you have. Any modification to it will create headache or hassle, depending how much patience or money you have or how much you can put up with. However if you move out here and go to car meets and see people doing all kind of stuffs to their FI NSXs, it's hard to not to jump on the band wagon.

I use to agree with you. In some sense, for a street driven car, I still do. It's kind of a situation where ignorance is bliss. If you only knew how inconsistent the AFRs are on a stock CTSC... I have the logs to prove it. Will it work.. sure. Will it ever fail? Probably not given all the positive history on the unit. Knowing better, will I upgrade the fuel the management system? YES.

It's the resolution that's missing with the factory CTSC fueling.

 

[TURBO2GO]

How much faster do you need to go?

Dave... That's like asking "how hot does your girlfriend need to be". Liquid's Z06 is beating me on the straights at Watkins. I can't have this.

 

[hks]

Easier to pay $250 for a shady smog you mean? Yes, keep advertising that in a public forum and your sources will cease to exist as they lock down on this even more than they have. Think about it man...

Hey, I didn't mention anything about shadyness. :tongue:

 

[RYU]

Dave... That's like asking "how hot does your girlfriend need to be". Liquid's Z06 is beating me on the straights at Watkins. I can't have this.

Get a Z06?

If not, then you'll start another thread asking if you should sell your NSX again :biggrin:

Hey, I didn't mention anything about shadyness. :tongue:

I was wondering about that. So if not, how are you paying $250 for a legit smog??? That's a lot.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Well if you do meth and get larger injectors and a pump and a FIC why not just turn up the boost a bit then?

 

[RYU]

Well if you do meth and get larger injectors and a pump and a FIC why not just turn up the boost a bit then?

Because I'd rather have bullet proof reliability and not be so hard on all my drive train components. The tradeoff just isn't worth it. I also think one can get into the 110-120s or lower in IATs with an 80/20 water/meth solution on the low boost. That would be SWEET.

 

[TOOLTIME]

It's a lot easier to just pay $250 for a smog. :wink:

*well, unless you know your car blows clean*

I was told in 2013 they are going to change how they test vehicles that are later than 2000 and is not required to run on the dyno for testing emmisons. All certified smog station is required to adapt to the new system to test these vehicle.

What do I know...mines is legal!

 

[TURBO2GO]

We had dynos in MA. They all went away. It was huge in costs and a huge time muncher.

 

[NetViper]

Dave... That's like asking "how hot does your girlfriend need to be". Liquid's Z06 is beating me on the straights at Watkins. I can't have this.

I honestly don't think there is much you can do to beat a zo6 on the straight with a ctsc. Maybe a 75 shot of nos.


Even SOS says the sossc performs similar to a c5zo6. The c6 zo6 is a whole different animal. 440+ rwhp stock.

So bottom line, stay where you are and get a love fab stage 2 turbo. Or buy Alex farrington's Nsx because it can't be beat

 

[Vega$ NSX]

There might be a solution. On a very well thought out and conservative turbo, you might be able to do a simple exhaust swap and retune to pass emissions. On my Ver. 1.0 turbo build we put all the necessary exhaust parts downstream of the headers in stock connection points. What that means was when it was time to get smogged all that was necessary was to disconnect the exhaust and re-bolt on the stock exhaust with cats. Then get a retune and you are back to stock. Of course, you can't pull this off with mega 1000 cc injectors and other crazy parts, but it's do-able with a moderate turbo build.