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Guys comment if somebody used PRO EFI EMS on NSX

I've heard lots of good things about this EMS. Seems like it blows the Aem EMS series 2 out of the water .

anyone else can share feedback please? Did you go with the pro48 or pro128?

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This is why i'm so excited about this product. Evidently they have an NSX specific unit.

From a Honda-Tech member:

It's all about your tuner and how he knows to utilize the system. I know Larry @ SP pretty well and he's one of the best tuners for the Proefi system. so with that said I have it on my supra. if i lived in florida by titan or by tony palo i'd get motec. It's that simple. You take a proefi box to a tuner that doesn't know **** about it it's worthless. Talk to your tuner, see what he likes the most and what he knows.

Beyond that I'm in no way an SP nutswinger like everyone in the midwest that owns a Supra. But you can't beat this box. Price has gone up over the last year or so but its still very affordable. I look at this box up there with Motec. with better features and the same quailty. I actually bought my box used and was one of the first boxes to be put out in production, got loaded with the new software and e85/ trac/ i boost tune a few months ago. The possibilities are endless and i don't even know that much about the tuning end.

cool things i learn n have setup.
-a/c compressor kicks off at 80% throttle or more.
-you set a target afr mine is 9.3 on e85 i believe but it moves depending on boost/ ethanol content. the computer automaticly is adjusting fuel to get to that target afr.
-i have low timing maps for 18psi and < high timing maps 22psi & >
- Can guage kicks so much ***. - EVERYTHING I mean EVERYTHING is in this MPG is one of the cooler things on there i like. Its based off injector flow and wheel speed fomula. - there is a new guage or mass of guages in one its looks like a fish finder. its a 3"x4" screen. With even more crap to look at.
-I boost - I have maps at 15,18,22, 26,30 psi. at the twist of a ****. I used to have all boost levels based off of ethanol content which worked well but i can't get trac at 22psi let alone 26 or 30psi.
-fuel pressure sensor-automatically cuts timing- saved my motor when one of my 044s failed during the tuning process.
- Most factory sensors will work with the Proefi config. such as engine temp, wheel speed, and most other basic sensors.
-boost by gear

12 Injector drivers - All with built in Injector drivers!! Perfect for a twin injector setup on the Supra!!

16 Coil Drivers - Yes 16!!! No more waste spark!!

32 Analog inputs!!! - There are 32 analog inputs which will be preconfigured for anything you want to do... I.E. plug in a fuel pressure sensor and it automatically activates the trims associated with it. Put a Nitrous pressure sensor on your car and the computer trims fuel accordingly to bottle pressure!! You can datalog everything imaginable!!

10 Low side driver outputs - You can configure these to do whatever you can imagine. Also these will all support 4+ amps each!!

Built in wideband!! - That says it all!!

True volumetric efficeincy - So things like injector and pressure changes don’t have to be calculated and multiple maps changed, it’s all done in the background by simply entering your injector size and base fuel pressure. Actually knowing the injector size and fuel pressure, this allows us to make instantanious feedback changes to things like fuel pressure not staying constant, without relying on the O2 sensor for delayed information. Changing fuel type is as simple as entering the stoichiametric ratio for the fuel used.

Fault coding – Check engine light will tell you fault codes to help diagnose problems. Actions can be assigned with the fault codes. I.E. low oil pressure triggers a fault code, and activates a low rpm limiter. O2 sensor faults will automatically turn off block learning and closed loop feedback. Also the fault codes will be the same as the original ECU!!!

Traction control – multiple comprehensive traction control strategies including defined wheel speed differential between driven and non-driven wheels.

True knock sensing capability with specific knock frequency detection based upon the specific engine being monitored.

Multiple failsafe conditions making it nearly impossible to damage your engine in the case of tuning errors or mechanical malfunctions. I.E. lean, and knock conditions can be used to turn off nitrous, shut down boost etc….

O.E.M. manufactured ECU’s – The ECU’s are built by an O.E. manufacturer, so all ecu are 100% tested for vibration, temperature, loading etc… BEFORE you install them into your vehicle. Pro EFI ECU’s are as reliable as the factory units you take out. No more being stranded on the side of the road, or waiting weeks or months to get and issue repaired with the confidence of rolling the dice.

Drive by wire capability!!

Nitrous control:

Up to 4 stages!!

Control by speed, time, gear etc.....

Just enter the number of jets, jet size and target a/f and it does the rest!!

Add a nitrous bottle pressure sensor and it adjusts accordingly to pressure!!

Unlike other ECU's, you can target different a/fs for Nitrous with this unit in closed loop, or open loop, since the computer is based soley on V.E. it doesn't rely on the O2 sensor for hitting the desired a/f ratio. It does this based upon volumetric efficiency and desired equivelency ratio. Therefore there is less work for the O2 to do in closed loop, eliminating the chance for lean spikes typical of running nitrous!!!!

Fuel pressure compensation:

With the simple addition of a fuel pressure sensor, the computer will monitor and compensate for various fuel pressure. Lets say that you have a pump that is tired and your fuel pressure is not rising 1-1 any more. The computer will know and add neccessary fuel. Also if the pressure really gets unstable causing the computer to add too much pulse width, it will trigger a check engine light. It can also be set to initiate fuel cut, turn off the boost control, shut off NOS and lower the rev limiter. These safe guards can be triggered by the fuel pressure alone, by O2 activity or a number of other things!!

Boost Control Strategies:

Will be able to utilize dual solenoids to control pressure to both the top and bottom ports on any wastegate. This will give you VERY accurate control!!

Will be able to control boost by speed.

Will be able to control boost by time. Therefore if you spin the tires, and the vehicle speed sensor puts the boost map into a zone for higher boost.... the computer will know that it is wrong and hold the boost down until a certain amount of time.

Will control boost based on traction control. Traction control will be based on wheel speed differential!!

This computer will also know what gear you are in by simply entering gear ratios from the service manual, rear end ratio and tire size!!

Lean condition safety features:

In the case of a lean condition under certain circumstances (IE load, time etc) the computer can be programmed to shut down nitrous, lower boost, initiate fuel cut, initiate a rev limiter for a programmed duration of time until safe conditions return. This can also then be programmed to throw a code and activate the check engine light.

Misfire detection:

No more guessing if you have a misfire. This computer will tell you which cylinder and how often it misfires!! Think about how valuable this will be!! You will know instantly when it is time for new plugs.... or a coil pack is going bad....etc!!


20 channel thermocouple capability:

Yep..... 20 channel!! Put one in every runner..... downpipe..... anywhere you can think of!! This is critical in tuning an engine to run exactly the same on every cylinder!!!
Click to expand...
 
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I like to know more about thiS pro efi ems also. I really like flex fuel option cause I'm planing to switch to e85
 
Link to NSX specific unit?

Edit:Nevermind found this patch harness on their site here:

http://proefi.com/info/product-list/application-harness/

OBD1 harness is available. Wonder if this would work well for an obd2 for DBW throttle. These can also control automatic transmissions. Not sure how the interface would work don't know them at all. Only issue I saw was that it has no on board datalogging and is fairly expensive vs aem ems which has always been a fairly reliable system. I'm not gonna say AEM is better but most people don't need better anway.
 
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Evidently the Pro128 has the ability to control DBW and the AT. I have no idea on the interface but they have in interesting "fish finder" looking monitor display you can install on the dash as well as Windows software for the tune. I did read somewhere that the "cable" for this was something like $400+ extra??? That's the nutty part. The cost for thing can add up. I'll have to read up on the datalogging. For some reason I thought I read that it had it but I could be wrong.

Here's one (of many?) examples of why I was told the ProEFI is better.
- Let's say your fuel pump is starting to die: Fuel pumps don't typically just die and cutout abruptly They tend to get tired and not able to push out the volume and pressure as when new. Once this happens let's say the car starts to run lean over the course of many weeks of driving. AFRs go from 11.5 to 12.1 to 13.5... The ProEFI is monitoring this and will kick on the car's CEL and run backup "safe" maps once an unacceptable threshold has been reached.

Does the S2 have this type of more advanced logic? I think it does but no one ever talks about and I have no idea if the go-to tuners even tune for it. The ProEFI has most of this implied and built-in ready to go (I could be wrong on this which is currently doing more research).

This is the type of thing I like about the OEM ECU that no one ever talks about with the stand-alones.

Edit to add: I really like the 4-wheel Traction Control on the ProEFI. It's also my understanding that AEM built the Infinity specifically go after the market that ProEFI and even Motec currently are in.
 
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Yes AEM's new system should accomplish everything the current system lacks. DBW, Lean protection, Traction control, Flex fuel, better protections and faster processing. I just hope AEM continues to produce plug and play systems for a wide array of cars, or that companies can make harnesses cheaper than $400+ dollars. If the new infinity system could be had for under 2k plug and play I would be all over this. Retail price on the Proefi is over $2400 with the harness but I'm not sure how much they would actually sell for from their dealer.
 
I'm not sure on real pricing, but it says right now that the advanced tuning package is free. If they charge for these features on top of the price of the system it would likely be pushing $3k+ in addition to the harness which they say starts at 300+ although the only harness available right now is a 93-98 toyota supra. A motec system with these features does cost over 5k+ though so it's not to say that the price is out of this world. The price may be fair for what you get but I wouldn't plan on selling too many systems for street cars at the $3000+ price point when other systems work so well for much cheaper.
 
There are several Infity systems already released, and there is a stripped down version of the Infinity comming soon, lets call it "Infinity Lite", my understanding is it will be available in 4 or 6 cyl versions with single drive by wire, one USB port, a single I/O connector, and very limited use of the advanced tuning options. For an OBDii NSX with the need for a single drive by wire this could be all that is needed to run the car as many of the features of the full blown Infinity 10 could but most likely would not be used in a standard FI setup on the NSX. This "lite" version is aimed as a lower cost option for simpler plug and play system or race only cars.

I have not used a ProEFI yet but would love to play with one, looks like the Pro128 is the only one that has knock control and the Pro48 only supports 4 injectors. Retail for the Pro128 is $2023.81 and add in the price for the harness and wideband and you are close to the target price of the Infinity "lite". If you needed a 12 injector, 16 coil driver ECU the price for the Pro128 is much cheaper than others on the market, but we only need 6 injector and 6 coil drivers. I guess if you were building a twin engine NSX dragster this could be the ECU for you. :biggrin:

Dave
 
DDozier said:
I guess if you were building a twin engine NSX dragster this could be the ECU for you. :biggrin:

Dave
Click to expand...

:biggrin:

nsx.gif
 
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If you pick by specs alone the ProEFI128 takes it by a long shot over the series2. The modeled airflow vs traditional lookup tables has a very big advantage when implemented correctly, however to take full advantage of the this method you really need both a MAP sensor and a modern MAF sensor. Keep in mind the AEM Infinity ECU uses this type of airflow modeling.

One of the things that makes this type of engine management even possible is modern engine sensors have become much more reliable and accurate across a broader range.

Most OEM's are using modern O2 sensors that are true widebands, knock sensors that are much more accurate, and MAF sensors that are very stable. So if you trust the data from the sensors you can let the ecu do more and react faster to the sensors. The ECU can skip the step of looking up a known reference for fuel and spark and just calculate it in real time based on the engines VE and sensor data.

Dave
 
Dave,

Your info is invaluable as usual. I wish you were local. What do we need to do to convince you lovely Socal sunshine is worth it?

I was also shocked to find out my 2013 BRZ has a WB O2 sensor and software such as ECUTek is allowing so many tuners to do "Internet" tunes. Seems to be all the rage in the Subie world though I don't trust something I don't fully understand...yet.

Given the basic sensor upgrades to an OBD1 NSX (i.e. WB O2, IAT sensor, oil pressure, fuel pressure, coolant temp, maybe EGT, etc) would the platform be able to take advantage of a more advanced ECU like the Infinity or Pro128?

I'm simply trying to get the most bang for my hard earned dollar but willing to pay up front for added safety measures. The EMS S2 seems like a stout enough unit but the Infinity/Pro128/Motec just seems entirely on a different level to me.
 
RYU said:
Dave,

Your info is invaluable as usual. I wish you were local. What do we need to do to convince you lovely Socal sunshine is worth it?.
Click to expand...

Can not afford the tax rates, besides I would miss all the humidity.:tongue:

RYU said:
I was also shocked to find out my 2013 BRZ has a WB O2 sensor and software such as ECUTek is allowing so many tuners to do "Internet" tunes. Seems to be all the rage in the Subie world though I don't trust something I don't fully understand...yet.
Click to expand...

Almost all manufacturers are going with wideband sensors for the primary O2's some even use them as the secondary to have a better idea of cat efficiency.

RYU said:
Given the basic sensor upgrades to an OBD1 NSX (i.e. WB O2, IAT sensor, oil pressure, fuel pressure, coolant temp, maybe EGT, etc) would the platform be able to take advantage of a more advanced ECU like the Infinity or Pro128?
Click to expand...

Given the lack of plug and play support for these new ECU's unless you are willing to learn the product, tuning process and do a lot of leg work, the price for doing this will not be practical, and in order to take full advantage of these ECU's so much would have to change, but then again you can use these ECU's without changing any of the sensors and just adding dual widebands, but you will likely see no better result than the older Series2 could offer.

RYU said:
I'm simply trying to get the most bang for my hard earned dollar but willing to pay up front for added safety measures. The EMS S2 seems like a stout enough unit but the Infinity/Pro128/Motec just seems entirely on a different level to me.
Click to expand...

For any OBD1 car the Series2 is everything the OEM ECU was as far as technology and fuel strategy. The platform is stable and a step up from the Series1 ECU's and there are a lot of car making great power and being run hard using the Series1. If you want plug and play and a choice of tuners that have seen the ECU and its implementation on a NSX the AEM is hard to beet for the price. If you want the cheapest priced hardware and you are willing to learn everything about the ECU and making wire harnesses something like a MegaSquirt can be done for under a grand. In a world where time is money this is not a real option for most.

So to sum up:
Series1 = good (uses wasted spark due to lack of coil drivers & has some sensor input noise issues) = cheap(used) = easy to have installed and tuned
Series2 = better then Series1 (no wasted spark and noise issues cleaned up) = reasonable $ and is plug and play = easy to have tuned
Infinity = better then Series2 = more expensive route = will need additional sensors to improve over Series2 = needs a custom harness and may have to rewire wheel speed sensors to TC ? (by the way there is already an FI NSX running on an Infinity 10 ECU)
ProEFI128 = on par with the Infinity? = less expensive than the Infinity = support for the NSX is growing = needs a custom harness and may have to rewire wheel speed sensors to TC ? (may be more than one up and running already)
MoTec = great products solid = get out your wallet open and turn upside down, pick up ATM card and head to the bank for round 2. :eek:

Dave
 
Once again, i'm depressed by how old our cars really are. It's such a great platform. Just needs a massive update.

I know of about 3-5 NSXs on the Pro128. Probably more out there...?

I believe the Infinity equipped NSX might be the same one I know of that's Shanghai bound. I need to inquire with Mitch on what extra sensors he decided to install with the Infinity Would you know perhaps? I'm not sure what it would take to install a MAF along side our MAP but i'll look into it.

I got the msg. Thanks very much again for helping me understand the pros/cons. I'd like to explore what would it take to adequately use the Infinity in our ancient relics. I hope rewiring for the TC is not needed; I was really looking forward to that feature.
 
I have not looked into it a bunch but for a real programmable TC you will need to see the raw data from the wheel speed sensors. Our wheels sensors go to the ABS unit and are possessed into a trigger for the TC computer and then sent to the ECU as a command for reduced power. I am not 100% sure on the entire process but that is how it looks after reviewing the wire diagrams. The Infinity has the ability to view the raw data and adjust power and wheel spin via several modifiers, TB, fuel, spark. Without DBW this may not be worth the effort on an OBDI car.

Dave
 
Dave,

On my 2013 vehicle it feels like the ABS is activated independently for each wheel once TCS is triggered. For example, let's say you took a right hand turn too hard. The rear wants to oversteer going left. TCS takes over and independently modulates the brake in the inside rear wheel to prevent a spin. That's what it feels like and it's quite impressive.

If modern TCS systems do control the ABS/Brakes independently then perhaps more advanced EMS units like the Infinity can't do so yet. They seem limited to only being able to pull power one way or another but not capable of modulating the brakes as well?
 
has anyone here used the newer Link G4 system? Tuners down here recommend them against the Motec unit for nearly as good but a lot more affordable
 
RYU, you have "stability control" on that car. It is tied into the ECU, and ABS. If you keep making violent moves back and forth from side to side the car will eventually come to a stop even if you keep your foot planted on the gas and never touch the brake. These systems are required on a new passenger cars to prevent roll over.

Dave
 
Has anyone ever tuned an NSX on a MegaSquirt?
 
Sorry to bump this but im trying to run a pro efi 128 on my car and pro efi swears the cam/crank trigger is 12 point and not 24 like factory. Does anyone have these files for the NSx? Id really like to start tuning it. Call or text 724-584-0340 is the fastest way to contact me
 

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