How can I get more horsepower gains without breaking the bank?

[IBCOOL]

I Have a 1996 NSX with Comptech intake, Comptech headers, and Comptech exhaust. I just got in a set of Dali test pipes, which I have not installed yet.

Someone told me there is a chip available that will increase the power of my car. And lately I've read about the bigger throttle bodies from SOS and the Q45.

I am not mechanically inclined, and, at this stage I am not in a position to go for the bigger built SOS engines.

I want to stay with natural aspiration as I do not want to imperil my cars reliability, and, Baton Rouge lacks mechanics who are used to tuning and looking after forced induction cars.

With that in mind, would it be advisable to get the Q45 throttle body? If so, who do I get it from, and what other components would I need to complete the installation? Do I need a Dali chip? What is a Dali chip? And how much do these components cost in U.S. dollars?

Do you guys feel it is worth it to go with the bigger throttle body? I read the link about the Q45 throttle body, but, was unable to discern if the gains were that great and I was also unable to get a read on what the cost is for these gains.

Finally, does anyone know how this type of modification will affect the inherent reliability which I have grown to love in NSXs?

 

[BD]

There is not much you can do unless you go force induction.

Keep your eyes open for better header and exhaust system. You can't tune the ECU because it is OBDII.

Good luck.

 

[RON98]

we have done a handful of sos tb installs and from what i felt and heard from customer feedback, the car has better throttle response and pickup. By how much? i dont know.

never did get a before and after dyno. If someone wants to do a SOS bored out TB install, MSG us. We'll run before and after install dyno for a discounted price so the community gets a dyno chart to work off of.

A bigger TB will not effect your reliability.

besides what you already got on the car you cant really do much more for an N/A car unless you start doing internals both engine and tranny.

Well there are a few little tricks but wont net you anything major like a S/C or turbo setup.

you can do weight reduction. if you strip all the trim off the nsx and take out the spare wheel and replace the stock battery with a smaller battery you'll get more pick up due to less weight. Good luck and have fun. :smile:

 

[MJK]

I second the weight reduction.

Have you thought about gearing? Shorties and a 4.23, OSG4.44, 6 speed swap are some options there.

Aside from that, the next HP mod sounds like low (<6lb) boost FI to me.

 

[IBCOOL]

Thanks for the info. I have my JGTC parallel exit exhaust in the storage unit. I think I may put it on as the Comptech exhaust is very quiet.
I'm wondering if I put those shiny new Dali test pipes on with the JGTC is my car gonna raise hell and wake up the neighbors when I leave for the gym at 5:30 a.m.?

 

[ef you]

i dont know if you are familiar with the guys at Airline Auto, but they built that GruppeM NSX that was in Super Street a few years ago. they are pretty much the only people in Baton Rouge with decent experience concerning the NSX. you might want to look them up, as im sure they can give you some pointers on gaining power. Just ask for Loc; hes the owner. They've built a lot of 10-12 second turbo B-series civics in addition to that NSX. it might be worth a phone call, since you live in BR.

 

[IBCOOL]

Thanks, I'll have to look them up. TOMORROW! I am selling the SOS stage 2 pseudophile stereo out of my 1995 that I totaled along with the 8 minute old Kenwood reciever I had put in moments before the wreck.
Hopefully that will generate some $$$$ for some kind of upgrades.

What is this I keep hearing about a Dali chip?

 

[RON98]

test pipes are not excessively loud..

If you dont get on the gas, the exhaust note is reasonable. Once you get on it, you'll definitly hear it.

 

[NSXGMS]

...Do you guys feel it is worth it to go with the bigger throttle body?...

No. It is one of the poorest value mods one can do on the NSX. There's virtually no bottlenecking at the TB or intake manifold unless you're already FI. Just clean your TB and you'll find your throttle response will improve...:wink:

There are also no chips or tuning proven to increase performance significantly on an NA NSX.

I/H/E/cats/cams/valves will get you around 50hp extra but that's about it. That would be the equivalent of the SOS Stage 3 Package.

The NSX is not a Supra. There's no free lunch. Plan on spending around $100/1 hp for the NSX. In contrast one could expect to spend $20-$30/1 hp for a Supra.

 

[NSXGMS]

...What is this I keep hearing about a Dali chip?

It raises the rev limiter to 8500 rpm and adjusts the air/fuel ratios slightly I guess. I didn't notice any difference after install other than the rev limiter which I like.

BTW, I had I/H/E/BBTB before the chip install. FWIW the chip made no noticeable performance difference to the butt dyno.

Dali has some graphs from some dynos a few years back showing some gains compared to some other chips. I would lump it into the same category as the BBTB--won't hurt but certainly a very poor value for increased performance.

 

[RON98]

i think its cheaper than that for the supra.:biggrin:

 

[RON98]

im always a skeptic of one size fit all chip. since the testing and tune of the chip was not done your car.

just because you raise the rev limiter, it will not net more HP. Max HP comes before redline so rasing it a wont do anything for HP.

The issue with onesize fit all chip is that anything such as maintaince history, how the car was broken in, current upgrades, current condition of the engine, octane, fuel quality, spark plug choice and countless other paramaters could affect how the car was tuned and just cause it worked on that car, it does not mean it will work on your car.

Stock A/F are pretty much on part with where they should be so on a stock car with bolt ons, there is no need to tune A/F. Im sure that dali is adjusting ignition timing a degree here or there.

 

[NSXGMS]

im always a skeptic of one size fit all chip. since the testing and tune of the chip was not done your car.

just because you raise the rev limiter, it will not net more HP. Max HP comes before redline so rasing it a wont do anything for HP.

The issue with onesize fit all chip is that anything such as maintaince history, how the car was broken in, current upgrades, current condition of the engine, fuel used and fuel quality, spark plug choice and countless other paramaters could affect how the car was tuned and just cause it worked on that car, it does not mean it will work on your car.

Stock A/F are pretty much on part with where they should be so on a stock car with bolt ons, there is no need to tune A/F. Im sure that dali is adjusting ignition timing a degree here or there.

That is all 100% correct.

i think its cheaper than that for the supra.

It can be. The first extra 100hp can cost as little as $500-1,000. Getting to 200-300 extra might cost a total of $4,000-7,000 including I/H/E. Still unbelievably cheap to reach 550-600 whp and beyond.

 

[IBCOOL]

How much could I pick up a 6 speed tranny for?

Do short gears affect top end and gas mileage?

Are these silly questions?

 

[NSXGMS]

How much could I pick up a 6 speed tranny for?

Do short gears affect top end and gas mileage?

Are these silly questions?

The NA 2 6-speed uses a different clutch than the NA1 5-speed. That will need to be replaced as well. You can probably find a nice 6-speed for around $2,500. From Honda you'll pay over $5,000. The clutch will be about $1,600.

The short gears will improve 0-60 time but not 1/4 mile time. If that's what you're interested in than it is a worthwhile mod as you can have the tranny rebuilt and install the 4.235 final drive at the same time. And yes, your overall gas mileage will be worse since the engine is running at a higher RPM but the car is at a slower speed. 5th gear remains unchanged so your highway mileage will not change and neither will your top speed.

However, as you can see in this chart, you're just better off dropping 200 lbs. :wink: ("Japanese 5-speed" are the short gears)

 

[dx3]

What is the cost for the Dali chip?

Jonny

 

[ericwgnsx]

Keep your eyes open for better header and exhaust system. You can't tune the ECU because it is OBDII.

Good luck.

A better header and exhaust system? I know that the Comptech cat-back system is not the loudest one, but louder does not always equal more power. Even if he were to swap out the Comptech exhaust for the JGTC that he has in storage, there is still not going to be a significant gain.

As for the Comptech headers, I always heard that they are among the best out there, and any swap would yield even less gain than the exhaust swap (if any at all).

 

[goldNSX]

I second the weight reduction.

Have you thought about gearing? Shorties and a 4.23, OSG4.44, 6 speed swap are some options there.

Aside from that, the next HP mod sounds like low (<6lb) boost FI to me.

As some people say it's the sum of all elements. (how I hate this statement ) But if 'sum of all' is simply too much $$$ proorities have to be set. Personally I went through all of these mods except the engine interiors. Some mods are WOW and some are just LOW regarding output/$.

1. wheight reduction is not very easy on an NSX as every part may be put on the scale while engineering. Loosing -20 kg won't cost you any money, -50 kg will cost you more than $3k and loosing -100 kg more than $10k. Simple question: how BIG is the effect of -100 kg. Answer: not very much.

2. gearing: The Type R gears are very nice but they're not that faster overall as they feel. Changing gearing is NOT very effective in acceleration times. But again it's much more fun to drive the car. $4k? installed

3. So hp (better: torque) increase beats them all. IMO it's not worth to gain some hp at only a very small rev-range and having not more torque at other rev range. If you don't want to touch the internals of an engine this is definitly an argument against cams.

Concluding: If you really think your NSX is too slow wait for the CTSC, maybe $10k but worth much more than all of the mods mentioned above. :wink:

 

[FeetFxr]

A good bang for the buck, with minimal risk is nitrous. I've driven CTSC and 75 shot nitrous cars and for about $2K the extra 75 HP was a big difference.

 

[MJK]

I bought a used 6 speed, completely rebuilt it (all seals, all bearings, most gears), NSX-R main, Jun flywheel, new OE 5 speed clutch and a comptech lockout box. I sold my old 5 speed and cored my old clutch. The net cost for me to do the swap was about $5500 and a few favors. If I had done the NSX-R R&P, add anther $1500 to that tally. My freeway rpm dropped vs the 5 speed.

I love the swap, but still want more HP without much risk. Where does that leave me? Looking very closely at what Mase at stage 6 is cooking up.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I want to stay with natural aspiration as I do not want to imperil my cars reliability, and, Baton Rouge lacks mechanics who are used to tuning and looking after forced induction cars.

Ultimately, not all FI systems are the same and I don't think you can make a blanket statement like "imperil my car's reliability". I have had my car on I think something like 5 dynos now... and the maximum boost at any RPM my car builds is under 7 PSI, mostly peaking at 6.8 or so. My A/F ratios, after a few initial hiccups, with the factory ECU and just Comptech's own system, are between 11-12 and very very linear. Every mechanic that has closely examined the numbers has said they felt it was very safe.

My horsepower gains with the CTSC and GT-rom F1 header and V5 exhaust was over +113 HP on the same dyno done before and after.

There are more than a few CTSC NSX's that have been running around for a really long time. Some cars have well over 100K miles on the engine. A number of them are track cars, and raced regularly. Look at Gerard Van Santen's car for example, he has been running a CTSC on the track a while, so does Biobanker, among others. Few of these have ever broken.

The system is CARB certified and emmisions legal (some NA builds are not), and on a group buy sold for between 7-8K complete depending on the car.

It may be more money than you want to spend, but you may be better off waiting and getting something with a serious gain than spending 3K or 5K and having half that gain.

I do not believe that many of the "NA" mods that require ANY sort of internal engine work are more reliable than a simple low boost CTSC system. The CTSC is also easy to install and equires almost no maintenance so I don't think you will really need an expert tuner in your area to install it.

 

[fourringpilot]

In response to your mechanic worries - I have found that Porsche mechanics are great with turbo systems since Porsche is famous for finely tuned turbo machines. They should know the proper tests to run before and after turbo install. If you ask the parts guy at the Porsche dealer they can tell you who the good wrenchers are in the area that won't charge you $125 an hour.:smile:

 

[Prospeed]

In regards to the chips not doing much we have seen good results from our Rom tune service. check out the link below...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96360


We picked up around 15ft lbs of torque around 3000 to 5000 rpm and 8 to 14 hp up top.

I believe for the price it doesn't break the bank! :smile:

 

[Synthesis]

direct exhaust injection
or leaf blower induction :tongue:

but, seriously..... there are no real "cheap" options. what is your budget? even swapping gears in the trans can be expensive
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...SX/ScienceofSpeed/transmissions/custom_5-spd/
.... and even if you were "mechanically inclined":
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/drivetrain_performance_products/NSX/Honda/short_gears/
+
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/drivetrain_performance_products/NSX/Honda/NSX-R_RP/

just do like the rest of us, and realize you are going to pay a lot of money do anything; you bought an nsx :redface:

if you really need more, and really don't have enough money, get nitrous.

 

[Prospeed]

You're right! Affordability is relative... I figure if you can afford an NSX you should be able to afford some of the lower end mods (filter/headers/exhaust/Ecu chip). Or like some of us if you have an NSX then you have no more money left! hehe. Dropping the weight on the car however is an excellent way to make the car faster. When i purchased my car i did my researched and realized that everything cost 2x to 4x more for mods then on any other honda/acura.