i don't know how a young family gets ahead these days

[Fatal Lightning]

I agree....even though gas prices have gone up, it is still relatively cheap seeing what it is actually does for us. Compare it for equal volume for price for other things and you will see.

I've seen water that is even more expensive then gas! I remember thinking when I was young that water would always be free. Now it's in bottles.

Anyways, I think the problem was stated earlier. It's the volume that misleads us sometimes.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

You want to talk about a ball buster- a 5 quart jug of Mobil1 went up $1.00 at Wall Mart

 

[myguitar]

You're not being serious are you? You think the cost of living has gone up 12% in the past year? I could care less about the cost of gas. In the past nine months I've put gas in my NSX three times. I walk or I use public transportation most of the time. If you think Starbucks should be grilled by Congress why were you there. No one is forcing anyone to go to Starbucks and spend $2 for a cup of coffee.

Umm.. That was sarcasm, like the milk thing, sorry I didn't clear it up better... :wink: Of course I wouldn't think to take a coffee place before Congress, I was merely implying that complaining about milk being more $$ than gas (like my friend) is like complaining about things like coffee, beer, motor oil and whatever else being more than gas as well. But yes, Starbucks is an expensive habit but since I haven't had to pay for a cup in 6 months, why not go and get some on a weekend? :biggrin:

It's not just gas but it's also the cost of groceries, cost of energy and all the other little things that add up. Correct me if I'm wrong, I do believe that the cost of living has gone up close to 10% in the past year&half-two years BUT, maybe it's just me feeling that way because I moved from CO to VA about 15 months ago and certain things are more expensive here. For instance, I never paid more than $55 for my utilities in Denver, but out here in VA Beach it has never been below $100, even though my apartments here and there were about the same size and my usage is similar.

Like you, i really could care less about the gas prices. If gas hits $6 tomorrow, I don't think I will care to change my habits much. I have a four-banger and I don't drive too much anyway.

 

[Dtrigg]

Umm.. That was sarcasm, like the milk thing, sorry I didn't clear it up better... :wink: Of course I wouldn't think to take a coffee place before Congress, I was merely implying that complaining about milk being more $$ than gas (like my friend) is like complaining about coffee, beer, motor oil and all the other things being pricey. But yes, Starbucks is an expensive habit but since I haven't had to pay for a cup in 6 months, why not go and get some on a weekend? :biggrin:

It's not just gas but it's also the cost of groceries, cost of energy and all the other little things that add up. Correct me if I'm wrong, I do believe that the cost of living has gone up close to 10% in the past year&half-two years BUT, maybe it's just me feeling that way because I moved from CO to VA about 15 months ago and certain things are more expensive here. For instance, I never paid more than $55 for my utilities in Denver, but out here in VA Beach it has never been below $100, even though my apartments here and there were about the same size and my usage is similar.

Like you, i really could care less about the gas prices. If gas hits $6 tomorrow, I don't think I will care to change my habits much. I have a four-banger and I don't drive too much anyway.

Thanks Pal. You had me worried for while.:smile:

 

[myguitar]

Thanks Pal. You had me worried for while.:smile:

Yeah, I'll make sure to PM you next summer when I move out to CA... telling you how my cost of living has gone up about 40%! :redface:

 

[Dtrigg]

Yeah, I'll make sure to PM you next summer when I move out to CA... telling you how my cost of living has gone up about 40%! :redface:

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: Where in California? If you're concerned about the cost of living, don't come to San Francisco. For example, I pay $250 per month to park the NSX six floors below ground in my parking spot, and that's considered cheap.:tongue:

 

[steveny]

I agree....even though gas prices have gone up, it is still relatively cheap seeing what it is actually does for us. Compare it for equal volume for price for other things and you will see.

I've seen water that is even more expensive then gas! I remember thinking when I was young that water would always be free. Now it's in bottles.

Anyways, I think the problem was stated earlier. It's the volume that misleads us sometimes.

Kind of like people now who think oxygen will always be free but someday, after the clean air act and global warming is harped on long enough, oxygen will not be free.

 

[ChongLee]

I love cooking pho.

Oh snap! Someone mentioned PHO :biggrin:

 

[robr]

I thought about this thread today when someone mentioned the prices of gas vs the price of milk. He said "Why are people complaining about $3.25 gas when milk is still $4.00 per gallon?" Do you guys ever hear something that stupid? No one needs more than a gallon of milk at once. What if we needed one gallon of gas at a time? No one would complain! We'd start complaining about milk prices if we had to buy by tank-fulls!

Yup, I wouldn't complain about gas prices if I only need 3 gallons a week for the entire family. I spend about $50/month on milk, my Mobil bill is $300/mo and my office is only 7 miles from my house. My wife runs up most of that driving the kids all over the place all week long. That's a pretty good chunk of my post-tax income, thus gas prices are a huge concern to me. We now factor in those costs when friends invite us that live a distance away.... or at least I factor them in. I think the wife is starting to realize driving isn't free and is starting to get on board with that though.

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Try changing your national currency, like we did a few years back.....man, thats fun!!!

 

[myguitar]

Yup, I wouldn't complain about gas prices if I only need 3 gallons a week for the entire family. I spend about $50/month on milk, my Mobil bill is $300/mo and my office is only 7 miles from my house. My wife runs up most of that driving the kids all over the place all week long. That's a pretty good chunk of my post-tax income, thus gas prices are a huge concern to me. We now factor in those costs when friends invite us that live a distance away.... or at least I factor them in. I think the wife is starting to realize driving isn't free and is starting to get on board with that though.

That's a lot of milk! I drink about 8 oz a month which is actually just mixed into my food! I'm lactose intolerant.

 

[robr]

That's a lot of milk! I drink about 8 oz a month which is actually just mixed into my food! I'm lactose intolerant.

It's not a lot of milk when you have a family like the one in my avatar. My son drinks 2%, my daughter drinks whole and we drink skim.

 

[BladesNSX]

I don't understand how some say they would not care if gas prices went up $6 a gallon. Gas for me is not so much an issue because I live close to work, and I am single. The NSX and S2000 get decent MPG for sport cars. Despite that, I would be LIVID if gas prices went up to $6 a gallon (and who says it won't by next year )

What bothers me, are the huge profit margins Big Oil has been lavishing in over the past few years. Ever since Bush took office, Gas has nearly tripled!! I mean, I sure wish I had put a lot of stock in Big Oil back when I was younger. If milk went up to $6 a gallon. I'm certain farmers could easily show WHY the cost has gone up. Big Oil? No one questions them. Bastards.

 

[Dtrigg]

What bothers me, are the huge profit margins Big Oil has been lavishing in over the past few years. Ever since Bush took office, Gas has nearly tripled!! I mean, I sure wish I had put a lot of stock in Big Oil back when I was younger. If milk went up to $6 a gallon. I'm certain farmers could easily show WHY the cost has gone up. Big Oil? No one questions them. Bastards.

1. Check Big Oil MARGINS and compare them to other public companies
2. Bush = Higher gas prices
3. Check oil speculators
4. Oil is traded as a comodity
5. As I recall, the CEO's of major oil companies have testified before Congress
6. Ask the farmers why the prices of corn, wheat, soy beans, etc. have gone off the charts.

 

[H-carWizKid]

1. Check Big Oil MARGINS and compare them to other public companies
2. Bush = Higher gas prices
3. Check oil speculators
4. Oil is traded as a comodity
5. As I recall, the CEO's of major oil companies have testified before Congress
6. Ask the farmers why the prices of corn, wheat, soy beans, etc. have gone off the charts.

+1

You can't blame Bush and Big Oil for everything folks...

 

[myguitar]

It's not a lot of milk when you have a family like the one in my avatar. My son drink 2%, my daughter drinks whole and we drink skim.

Right... Touche!

Every once in a while I get on a cereal kick and start buying Rice Dream or Lactaid. Now those are very pricey!

 

[sahtt]

I don't understand how some say they would not care if gas prices went up $6 a gallon. Gas for me is not so much an issue because I live close to work, and I am single. The NSX and S2000 get decent MPG for sport cars. Despite that, I would be LIVID if gas prices went up to $6 a gallon (and who says it won't by next year )

What bothers me, are the huge profit margins Big Oil has been lavishing in over the past few years. Ever since Bush took office, Gas has nearly tripled!! I mean, I sure wish I had put a lot of stock in Big Oil back when I was younger. If milk went up to $6 a gallon. I'm certain farmers could easily show WHY the cost has gone up. Big Oil? No one questions them. Bastards.

I've got to say, this logic blows my mind. Just about anywhere other than nsxprime and I wouldn't be surprised.

Where to start? Let's make an example.

You and your team are doing a cost analysis on whether to build an additional off shore oil rig. The risk is the up front cost will be 50m and it will cost a quarter million a day to run. There is absolutely no guarantee of hitting oil and even making one single dollar in revenue. But the 50m+ is GONE regardless.

On top of that, 18 months from now when the rig is actually operational, even if you strike a sizeable reserve [big if], you have no idea how much the oil you will extract will be worth.

You decide after thousands of calculations and risk analysis sessions, that it comes down to oil prices [not quite that simple but close, as copper etc. you'll need in large amounts that are flexible in price are also tied to oil].

At 70$ a barrel, you still lose 10m.
At 80$ a barrel, you break even.
At 90$ a barrel, you make 10m
At 100$ a barrel, you make 20m, and so on.

So here you are blaming the oil companies that years later they are making large amounts of cash. How much sense does that make? Would you be feeling sorry for them and trying to get the gov't to help them out if oil dropped to 40$ a barrel like a couple decades ago over night?

Oil companies have almost zero bearing on oil prices. In fact you should thank them for being aggressive so your oil prices aren't higher.

If you want lower oil prices lobby to open up Alaska. If you can't stomach it then you should probably stay on the sidelines and just not drive as much.

Literally BILLIONS [that's thousands of millions] of new people in the last few years are demanding oil and oil based products. Supply is at best holding steady. Projected growth of demand is exponential to the up side, supply growth is tentatively flat. Where do you think price is going to go? Down?

If you think the foundation is there go buy some exxon mobil stock. If you aren't that convinced go buy an oil service NOV etc.

 

[Ski_Banker]

I've got to say, this logic blows my mind. Just about anywhere other than nsxprime and I wouldn't be surprised.

Where to start? Let's make an example.

You and your team are doing a cost analysis on whether to build an additional off shore oil rig. The risk is the up front cost will be 50m and it will cost a quarter million a day to run. There is absolutely no guarantee of hitting oil and even making one single dollar in revenue. But the 50m+ is GONE regardless.

On top of that, 18 months from now when the rig is actually operational, even if you strike a sizeable reserve [big if], you have no idea how much the oil you will extract will be worth.

You decide after thousands of calculations and risk analysis sessions, that it comes down to oil prices [not quite that simple but close, as copper etc. you'll need in large amounts that are flexible in price are also tied to oil].

At 70$ a barrel, you still lose 10m.
At 80$ a barrel, you break even.
At 90$ a barrel, you make 10m
At 100$ a barrel, you make 20m, and so on.

So here you are blaming the oil companies that years later they are making large amounts of cash. How much sense does that make? Would you be feeling sorry for them and trying to get the gov't to help them out if oil dropped to 40$ a barrel like a couple decades ago over night?

Oil companies have almost zero bearing on oil prices. In fact you should thank them for being aggressive so your oil prices aren't higher.

If you want lower oil prices lobby to open up Alaska. If you can't stomach it then you should probably stay on the sidelines and just not drive as much.

Literally BILLIONS [that's thousands of millions] of new people in the last few years are demanding oil and oil based products. Supply is at best holding steady. Projected growth of demand is exponential to the up side, supply growth is tentatively flat. Where do you think price is going to go? Down?

If you think the foundation is there go buy some exxon mobil stock. If you aren't that convinced go buy an oil service NOV etc.

Not to nitpick because your analysis is spot on, except in two ways:

1. The long term oil price forecast being used by majors has *only now* risen to $40/brl for worthwhile economics of a new project. Two years ago it was in the low 30s. The primary reason the figure has jumped as much as it has in the last year has been due to labor costs impacting new E&P, not the cost of development under ordinary labor markets. The shortage is not in capital or potential site locations, but in PEOPLE to design and build major platforms and perform the drilling.

So, in other words -- the oil companies' profit margins are at absolute historical highs right now because their projects would have been profitable at prices even below $40/brl. Nothing they can do much about it though.

2. Timing. It takes years to develop these massive new sites. Big projects that were planned in 2003-04 are only now producing much.

Must be nice. :wink: :biggrin:

 

[H-carWizKid]

Not to nitpick because your analysis is spot on, except in two ways:

1. The long term oil price forecast being used by majors has *only now* risen to $40/brl for worthwhile economics of a new project. Two years ago it was in the low 30s. The primary reason the figure has jumped as much as it has in the last year has been due to labor costs impacting new E&P, not the cost of development under ordinary labor markets. The shortage is not in capital or potential site locations, but in PEOPLE to design and build major platforms and perform the drilling.

So, in other words -- the oil companies' profit margins are at absolute historical highs right now because their projects would have been profitable at prices even below $40/brl. Nothing they can do much about it though.

2. Timing. It takes years to develop these massive new sites. Big projects that were planned in 2003-04 are only now producing much.

Must be nice. :wink: :biggrin:

NO NO NO!

That can't possibly be it!

Why, that is rational, and plausible, and it doesn't include any theories about a bunch of corporate fat cats sitting at a long table in a board room counting thier millions while stopping periodically to laugh at all the working stiffs they are screwing over...

What is that supply line crap you are talking about? Exploration and Refining costs? That is all just smoke you are blowing up our collective asses. None of that is true- after all, we all know the gas just miracles itself into existance anyhow-

No no, it must be George Bush feeding a special interest by allowing big oil to overcharge at the pump.

Smells of BS if you ask me Ski, and sahtt... I don't know what world you guys are living in. What do you call the place? Reality?

P

 

[Vega$ NSX]

...a bunch of corporate fat cats...

How in the world can you blame these guys? Look at their cute lil' faces and tell them they are monsters!

 

[sahtt]

NO NO NO!

That can't possibly be it!

Why, that is rational, and plausible, and it doesn't include any theories about a bunch of corporate fat cats sitting at a long table in a board room counting thier millions while stopping periodically to laugh at all the working stiffs they are screwing over...

What is that supply line crap you are talking about? Exploration and Refining costs? That is all just smoke you are blowing up our collective asses. None of that is true- after all, we all know the gas just miracles itself into existance anyhow-

No no, it must be George Bush feeding a special interest by allowing big oil to overcharge at the pump.

Smells of BS if you ask me Ski, and sahtt... I don't know what world you guys are living in. What do you call the place? Reality?

P

It is a harsh one at that.

Good points on the actual figures. I recently turned my hobby in to my career but before that I worked for NOV. I worked with a sector of the business that supplied the power cable, fittings, various electrical parts specializing in off shore and deep drilling. Some of those more recent excursions are rated at much higher per barrel break even points, which is what I primarily dealt with.

However, a lot of the stuff I worked with in Canada and in more practical off shore locations are indeed profitable at oil prices at 1/3 of the current levels.

I like said, buy some stock and make enough profits to pay for your gas! Sounds ridiculous but I have been telling people that for years and the ones that took my advice SMILE whenever they fill up with gas.

 

[MCM]

I am not sure how much different it really is today.
Many now just want everything - instantly.
New cars, high dollar food, etc. Its the norm. Its the modern way.
And get whatever strikes them at that moment.
Also using credit cards instead of cash makes it easy.
(we go for the air miles at our house like everyone else)
But when you spend $100.00 on a card
it does not have the same impact as if it were cash.
Also with cash, you know when your out............
Restaurants were kind of a big deal for most prior to 20 yrs ago.
Now there everywhere and always full.
Same with grocery stores. Ever check some of the carts in line?
Instant, frozen, pre cooked everything.
I am not saying I am not a part of it, but lived quite differently
when I had a young family.
Up hill in the snow both ways........
No, not really. But you might get my drift.
More a culture change than anything else.

 

[steveny]

Not to nitpick because your analysis is spot on, except in two ways:

1. The long term oil price forecast being used by majors has *only now* risen to $40/brl for worthwhile economics of a new project. Two years ago it was in the low 30s. The primary reason the figure has jumped as much as it has in the last year has been due to labor costs impacting new E&P, not the cost of development under ordinary labor markets. The shortage is not in capital or potential site locations, but in PEOPLE to design and build major platforms and perform the drilling.

So, in other words -- the oil companies' profit margins are at absolute historical highs right now because their projects would have been profitable at prices even below $40/brl. Nothing they can do much about it though.

2. Timing. It takes years to develop these massive new sites. Big projects that were planned in 2003-04 are only now producing much.

Must be nice. :wink: :biggrin:

Isn't that the whole idea. I know I raise my rents but my start up costs and monthly payments stay the same. It's how I get paid back for my initial risk.

 

[steveny]

I like said, buy some stock and make enough profits to pay for your gas! Sounds ridiculous but I have been telling people that for years and the ones that took my advice SMILE whenever they fill up with gas.

Exxon Mobile baby, Just a mere 100 shares ~8800 buck sell covered calls on them each month net ~300 bucks...average persons gas paid for.

 

[steveny]

I like said, buy some stock and make enough profits to pay for your gas! Sounds ridiculous but I have been telling people that for years and the ones that took my advice SMILE whenever they fill up with gas.

Exxon Mobile baby, Just a mere 100 shares ~8800 buck sell covered calls on them each month net ~300 bucks...average persons gas paid for.