Issue 2 lower controll arm trouble

[Knukle Head]

Well, In my quest to change my clutch, I have ran into an 800 pound gorilla. On the lower control arm (drivers side) the adjusting bold is stuck in the bushing???!!! I heated the joint, broke an impact socketand tried to rubber mallet the thing out. no luck. Any Idea's out there? This one is tough.
Please understand that the lower arm moves freely but the bolt does not turn. When you try to turn the bolt, it twists the rubber bushing.

 

[RON98]

post a picture. we'll be able to better help.

Rob:smile:

ps if you dont know how, send a copy to [email protected] and i'll post it on my server.

 

[KooLaid]

Soaked it in PB blaster? Try a nice heavy metal sledgehammer with the nut on to protect the threads. Rubber sucks when you need that heavy impact. Sounds like the metal sleeve is seized onto the bolt. We're talking camber adjustment bolt correct?

 

[alverman]

Since you talk about a rubber bushing, don't you mean the toe control arm ?
It's not very clear. In the latter case it could be the bolt has been
inserted wrongly before and has created a (as we say here) "false" thread and is stuck in the metal. The bolt will accept a lot of force when you use the right wrench to bring it out, and eventually you will need to rethread before you put in a NEW(!) bolt.
If you mean the camber control (see attachment) I don't know what you mean exactly. The toe control arm is just visible on top.
Yes, please post a picture.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Soaked it in PB blaster? Try a nice heavy metal sledgehammer with the nut on to protect the threads. Rubber sucks when you need that heavy impact. Sounds like the metal sleeve is seized onto the bolt. We're talking camber adjustment bolt correct?

Absolutely a sledgehammer, better yet an air hammer if you can get one, but first get the toe link off and out of the way, install the nut, give it a good whack. Worst case you will need to buy a new camber bolt and nut.

An alternative would be to have a sleeve to go over the bolt and use a very large "C" clamp to press the bolt out, I just think to get something in there, that is strong enough may be difficult.

I have to say if you are refering to the camber bolt, I have never had one seized and I wonder if something else is wrong. This is odd, since that is a Darco coated bolt, if it is the original. Was the car in an accident?

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Knukle Head]

Bing bing Bing, Larry you win the grand prize... I don’t think that the car was in an accident, but I do think that people who had no idea of what they were doing, worked on the car. Wrong and missing bolts are everywhere. I have seen all manor of abominations after doing a deep dive. It has kinda been like: (get ready for a colorful analogy) marring a beautiful woman and finding out a year later that she used to strip.:frown: I little embarrassing but you still love her ... All of that said, Larry, if this is in fact the wrong metal bolt in there does this change my coarse of action?
because I am going to go get a metal mallet and an air hammer tonight... It...... will....... come .... out.

And let me be clear about what we are talking about .. It is the lower control arm camber adjusting bolt. (I chiseled the adjusting cam off the bolt) .

To All, yes the bolt has clearly seized inside of the bushing sleeve.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I REALLY would like to see a pic of this to advise you properly. I want to be sure what you are into before things possibly get worse.

It make me wonder if the bolt is actually bent.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Knukle Head]

I will take a pic promptly, when I get home. Will you be on at 7:30 PM eastern time ?

 

[KooLaid]

but I do think that people who had no idea of what they were doing, worked on the car. Wrong and missing bolts are everywhere. I have seen all manor of abominations after doing a deep dive.

Yep, that part REALLY sucks. I run into that too. Sad part is, more than likely the bolts will never match completely either once the original goes missing.

As for the bolt used on camber, I've removed mine and it's not a normal bolt. It's a camber bolt with an ecentric shape to it and it requires a certain shape on one end to turn that "egg shaped washer" at the same time. A regular bolt and camber wouldn't change as the bolt is turned, along with that egg shaped washer. There's a chance the camber bolt might be scavenged from another vehicle..... but it should still be a camber bolt. Good chance the bolt might of been bent for some reason. Or maybe it is a completely wrong bolt...

Should look sorta similiar to this one off a civic, only ours is alot bigger and grey in color:

 

[Ski_Banker]

I have seen all manor of abominations after doing a deep dive. It has kinda been like: (get ready for a colorful analogy) marring a beautiful woman and finding out a year later that she used to strip.:frown: I little embarrassing but you still love her ...

Wow. That is embarassing. Maybe a nice pic would clear the air a little. :tongue:

BTW, I hope your NSX isn't Brooklands Green because we all know how slutty those NSXs are. So dirty!!

Silver is the only pure NSX color. :biggrin:

 

[Knukle Head]

Wow, that wasn't vey prompt but I had to take a few more wacks at it before I came in tonight.

 

[Knukle Head]

At this point, wouldn't it be easier to take that whole lower brace off and go get the bolt pressed out? Or maybe I should buy a small press....:wink: I love tools.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I notice in your pic you have the lower control arm swung downward. It appears to be putting a lot of stress on the bushing(notice the rubber in the bushing and that the bushing is cocked in the rear beam). If you are going to smack it, the lower control arm should be as close as possible to it's correct position when the suspension is fully assembled.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[KooLaid]

Is this the last bolt on the lower control arm holding it to something? I'm guessing you separated the knuckle from the ball joint (btw, shouldn't do that if at all possible)?

You're soaking it in PB blaster right? Or something equivalent?

It plain sounds like it's stuck for some reason or another. If you don't have a press and can somehow maneuver this lower beam/control arm around, you can press it out with a bench vise by putting a same size/proper size socket over the bolt head (not nut) and pressing on the end of the socket and nut in the vise. I'm 99% sure (don't remember exactly) but the ecentric washer should slide right off toward the nut side.

If there is space to fit it, you can also try renting (free through many chain auto parts stores) a ball joint tool complete with little cups and all. It should look like a giant C clamp.

 

[Knukle Head]

OMG >>!!!! I just broke the rear Beam !! I am going to drink now and I don't ever drink. I am furious!! ok, I am now looking for a used rear beam part number 50200-SL0-010 and STILL I need to remove the damn bolt !!! I am taking it to a machine shop.
Here is the dead list of broken tools in the effort to remove this bolt.
One bent c clamp
One broken Impact socket
One Broken (smashed ) socket

I actually removed the rear beam with the drivers side A arms attached when I started working on this PITA !!!! That has helped nothing.
AAAaaahh!!
ok I done now.
If you know of a used rear beam, please pm me.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

When you get settled, please let us know how this broke, and ultimately what is the real issue. Are you sure that lower rear control arm is straight?

I am shocked you got enough force to break the rear beam. That is a strong piece, but it is aluminum.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Knukle Head]

well , this morning I started by putting a nut on the adjusting bolt taking an impact socket and putting the socket on the nut and then hitting it with the air hammer... The bolt laughed at me
I then Brought out the sledge hammer .. wham wham wham .. nothing
I then remove the entire assembly and put it on the table.
I then Go buy a table Top press. I put my 36mm socket on the bolt side of the joint jack jack jack ....boink ! it wont hold enough pressure because the A arm assembly wont allow the whole assembly to be Directly perpendicular to the bottom of the press.
I go get lunch ( pissed )
I come back and break out the huge C clamp , twist, twist, twist, then the handle bends. I think , ok back to the sledge hammer. I set it up on the table Outside with the 36 mm under the bolt, a nut on top and a socket on top of the nut. I take a few swings and the 36mm socket comes out from under and the hammer bounces back Up!! and breaks the ear for the toe Rod ...
Congratulations .knuckle head. I just bought a new rear beam $500 and i still must save the lower a arm ... but fear not, I am cutting it out

 

[KooLaid]

damn, that really sucks. I should of just mentioned cutting the stupid thing off earlier. Keep us updated. Sorry for the misfortune. Something is SERIOUSLY FUBAR there..

 

[Larry Bastanza]

At this point, since the part is now mobile, I would just go to a machinist and have the bolt pressed out, with the only goal beingfto save the A arm.

You know, you may just find that the last guy messed this up so bad, that you may have needed to replace the beam to fix it anyway. That camber bolt must be bent.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[jdnsx]

Hello,

I have an extra rear beam, right rear knuckle, and right side beam sub assembly?? I do not have any a-arms. Let me know if you need anything.

Joe

 

[OLDMNSX]

Well, I just happened to be near D.C. this week and Knukle Head stopped at my hotel and picked me up for some fun working on his car. This was the first time that Gene and I had met. We had a great time driving from D.C. to his home. Bet you can’t guess what one of the things we talked about!!!

After we got his ABS flushed, bled and ate BBQ, we looked at the rear beam with the "A" arm attached, it didn’t look good. We sprayed some more penetrating oil on it and when I asked Gene for a big hammer he just laughed at me! He said, "OK, but I've already beat the crap out of it, but if you want to try, knock yourself out". Well I beat, and beat, and beat and it wasn't coming apart (the hammer was too small, obviously). When we looked at the underside of the car we found signs of corrosion and rust on some of the plated hardware. This told me that there was a good chance of dissimilar metal corrosion between the rear beam bushing (aluminum) and the eccentric bolt (steel) that attaches the lower “A” arm.

Finally we figured that we were going to have to take his air die grinder and something was going to make the "ultimate sacrifice". At first it looked like the "A" arm was going to be the only survivor. The more we looked at it the eccentric bolt was definitely going to get the cut and possibly the rear beam too. Since the rear beam had already lost an ear off of the toe link attachment what did we have to loose. The more we looked at it we reduced the damage down to the bolt and the rear beam "A" arm bushing. So away I went with the die grinder and cut off wheel. After about 45 minutes of cycling the air compressor the "A" arm was apart from the rear beam with no damage to the "A" arm and only a surface scuff near the bushing on the rear beam.

So, now there are two options. Repair the broken ear on the toe link attachment and replace the bushing on the rear beam, or replace the rear beam. At least we were able to separate the lower "A" arm from the rear beam without damaging the "A" arm. I am going to try and attach two pictures. One with the "A" arm attached and one after it went "Under the Knife". You can see in the second picture part of the eccentric bolt sitting where the toe link ear was broken by Gene's wild hammer.

It was a lot of fun to help Gene and a pleasure to get to know him, a friend for life.

Brad