Let's compare notes

[BenDF]

Hello everyone. We are studying the front end of the NSX to see what improvements we can make to existing and future products, and have realized that absolute perfection may not be 100% possible.

We have found variances between several NSX's, and believe this is because of the fact that these vehicles are hand assembled. This may be the reason why we have a percentage of customers who have bought product from us, and did not achieve a perfect fit without some adjustments.

I wanted to share some photos/notes with you guys, and see what you think. The following photos are from a 2002 NSX with no accident history, and no body modifications.

Here is a photo of the gap between the driver side fender, and "A-pillar". Notice how the pencil fits into the gap.

Here is a photo of a template we constructed to the shape of the fender. We wanted to see if the driver side contour matched up with the passenger side.

Here is the passenger side, with the same pencil. The gap difference is obvious.

Same template from the driver's side flipped over.

A closer look.

This photo, along with the template photos, leads me to believe that the fender should be tweaked outward a bit.

Although it is a minor variance, we feel that this variance is causing some confusion. Sometimes, it really can be the "car's fault". Some very minor fender bending could alleviate problems when trying to line up that hood at the hinge points.

I would love to see some of you conduct the simple pencil test, and post your findings here. We tested 3 NSX's already, and have found that these variances exist in all three. I don't think it is coincidence, but I have been wrong before.

Let me know what you guys think. If anything, this might shed some light on those who have had fitment issues with aftermarket hoods.



Ben

 

[MvM]

I have worked on only one NSX which is my own.
But I have had ALL the bodywork off. As you probably know the body panels on the NSX are all bolted down.
The aluminum bodywork is very thin and also very easy to flex.
When putting the car back together I (we) started at the front and worked our way to the back. So, first the front fender, then the door, then the rear panel. Doing this for the first time. it took literally hours to adjust all the panels correctly.

I found that when bolting down one side (top side) of a panel and then the lower bolts, it was easy to flex the panel is such a way it would change the shape of the panel ever so slightly. I had (still have actually) lots of difficulty to get, for example, the trunk lid flush with the left and right quarter panel. Sometimes on a NSX, U-shaped aluminum spacers are used to make sure the panels are flush.
These minor differences are probably hardly noticable with the naked eye but would be very obvious when using a template like you.
This probably won't help you at all but at least you know that what I've found out.

 

[heySkippy]

I just did your pencil test on my car and it appears the drivers side has more gap, but not nearly as much as your example. I would estimate maybe 1/16th inch more gap on the driver side.

 

[BenDF]

I just did your pencil test on my car and it appears the drivers side has more gap, but not nearly as much as your example. I would estimate maybe 1/16th inch more gap on the driver side.

We need more cars like yours to experiment with. :wink:

1/16th variance has to be the best I've heard of so far.

 

[heySkippy]

I'll dig out some more precision instrumentation in the next day or two and get more exact readings for you.

 

[Sulley]

Mine is closer on the driver's side, but they are almost exactly even. Might be off by 1/32nd.
Sulley

 

[BenDF]

Thank you guys. Please post your findings if you conduct the simple test. I'd like to get a response from at least 10 people, so we can get a feel for how often the problem we found exists with other NSX's.

 

[nsxhk]

Ben,

Yes, I've noticed that too. One panel fits perfect on one car might have fitment issues on another car. I guess hand built cars are like that.

Henry.

 

[JDMnsxR]

welcome to the world of hand built cars...

no two lotus elise's have the same mysterious rattle sounds :tongue:

 

[latzke]

I checked this AM before I left for work. My early 1991, with zero body work history, has an identical gap on both sides as far as I can tell. I can easily insert an eraser removed from a Bic mechanical pencil (like those pictured below) into the trailing 1/3 of the gap on either side and it's held lightly in place.

 

[BenDF]

This is good to hear actually. It may explain why only a handful of people are having issues with alignment. At least we now no of one area they can check if hoods are not lining up as they should.

If anyone came up with simular variances as we did, and are shy about posting about it, PM me please.

Thanks!

 

[Alan C.]

What also needs to be considered is that the right and left hand sides of the cars come from different dies. The dies are obviously not the same.

Try making something for one of the older Porsches, now that is fun.

Probably one of the best ideas for fitment was on the Pontiac Fiero. Some of you may remember that the frame was assembled on a jig and then was drilled for all of the panel mounting points while bolted to the jig. From a spacial point of the view the holes were always in the same place. Since the panels were molded the mounting holes in those were pretty much in the same place as well. This made for an easy panel replacement provided there was no damage to the frame.

 

[BenDF]

Ah yes. The Fiero days.

Haven't seen one of those in a loooong time!

 

[LJSB]

Is the problem with the aftermarket hood that when bolted to the hinges that drivers' side rear sits too high?

Be careful you don't poke your eye out with that pencil!

 

[slamstrom]

I have .035" (3 business cards thick) gap on the driver side, and .085" (9 business cards thick) on the passenger side. Car is a 97 with all original stock parts.

 

[BenDF]

Is the problem with the aftermarket hood that when bolted to the hinges that drivers' side rear sits too high?

Be careful you don't poke your eye out with that pencil!

Actually, there have only been a handful of people that seemed to have issues. Probably about a 50/50 ratio between driver/passenger side. Now that we have discovered this variance, it could very well be culprit of this problem. Obviously if the fender is off, the fit will be as well.

We made a couple minor adjustments to counter this problem, and may be including some 1/16 shims with our hoods in the future to help with the fitting for those who do not want to adjust their fender.

 

[BenDF]

I have .035" (3 business cards thick) gap on the driver side, and .085" (9 business cards thick) on the passenger side. Car is a 97 with all original stock parts.

Yours is simular to one of the other NSX's we have tested. Thanks for the info!

 

[latzke]

I have .035" (3 business cards thick) gap on the driver side, and .085" (9 business cards thick) on the passenger side. Car is a 97 with all original stock parts.

I liked the business card approach (I know not real scientific as cards one person has may be thinner/thicker than cards others have, but it at least shows varience left-right on the same car) and was curious...so I ran out during lunch and took 5 measurements (that I thought applicable to hood fittment) from each side of the car. Unit of measurement is number of business cards that could be easily inserted. Results correspond to the pictures illustrating what was measured, in order.

Left/Driver: 17, 15, 11, 10, 14
Rright/Pass: 17, 14, 11, 9, 15

 

[BenDF]

Yours is fine.

Thanks for taking the time to test and post!

 

[slamstrom]

I liked the business card approach (I know not real scientific as cards one person has may be thinner/thicker than cards others have, but it at least shows varience left-right on the same car) and was curious...so I ran out during lunch and took 5 measurements (that I thought applicable to hood fittment) from each side of the car. Unit of measurement is number of business cards that could be easily inserted. Results correspond to the pictures illustrating what was measured, in order.

Left/Driver: 17, 15, 11, 10, 14
Rright/Pass: 17, 14, 11, 9, 15

I used a caliper on the thickness of 3 & 9 business cards. Busniess cards will vary in thickness. My pencils don't fit.

 

[Tom239]

Clearance at the closest points (i.e. from the tip of the fender to the pillar) is 0.10" on the driver's side and 0.20" on the passenger side. 1995 NSX-T, 63,000 miles, no accidents or bodywork.

 

[LJSB]

Actually, there have only been a handful of people that seemed to have issues. Probably about a 50/50 ratio between driver/passenger side.

What were the issues?

 

[02#154]

My fender to A-pillar gaps, measured at the area closest to the door, are:
passenger side - .158"
driver's side - .180"
a difference of .022"

Pretty close for a hand-built car, I think. Going solely by what's posted here in this thread, it seems that an NSX that's "off" is more common. If aftermarket parts are built using a common example (one that is off) that would mean that it would fit most, but that it would need adjustment for cars that are "right".

J