Looking for some input

[stacy'snsx]

Done so far,looking for advice

This is what I have done so far.
Mounted a dvd player with my Nakamichi cd700 in the dash,focal 6.5" and tweeter in each door with D'ecosse speaker plates and the Zetoolman 10 inch subwoofer box.The ashtray holds my Tein adjustment and Nitrous switch.Still to come is either a nav pod or mold a 7" TV into the top of the dash where the clock was.The reason for trying to make a molded version is because I am not sure that I like how high the nav pod sits,sort of wrecks the beautiful smoothness of the dash IMO.However I may have to use it,if I can't get this to work.
In the trunk is the nitrous bottle,7 inch TV,distrubution block and two studio design amplifiers(U-dimension 8.1 and 10.4).The aluminum "X" on the floor of the trunk will get polished to a bright shine,below it through the hole is an X-box which has been modded to accept a 250 gig hard drive.The drive has,so far,32 movies,too many games to list,200+ music videos,and the best part is the screen saver is pictures of my car(or whatever I want).I am hopefully going to be able to download all my music,videos and whatever via a wireless connection.I pull my car into the garage at home download to my laptop then send it to the trunk of my car and into the X-box via wireless.
So my first question is can this wireless connection be done successfully?
At the top of the door panel I made tweeter pods,is this an alright place for them(sound wise)?
What do I finish the trunk with PAINT or UPHOLSTERY?
Any input would be greatly appreciated before I go ahead and finish this project!!
Stacy

 

[D'Ecosse]

Looking really good Stacy!
I think since you have a nice finish in the trunk, paint might look pretty sweet!

 

[Tewen]

hey! love what U have done! ...does all that extra weight in the rear efect the cars handling?? They seem to be light in the front just if U remov the spare tyre

 

[stacy'snsx]

I don't know haven't driven it since I did all this.Everything is pretty light weight except for the amp and amp rack.I removed carpet and tools out that will compensate a tiny bit.My car is just a cruiser,not really a speed thing for me.I know the next question"If it's not a speed thing,then why a nitrous bottle" LOL.
Just so I can keep up with the others.
Stacy

 

[stevenlee]

I am installing a sound system soon and would also like to know if the tweeter location is OK for sound. Looks clean there and saves cutting the door panel.

 

[stacy'snsx]

When I found out how much a door panel costs from Acura,it changed my mind in a hurry!!!
Ken D'ecosse seemed to think it was a great spot for them,but he did mention soething about imaging,because the tweeter is so far from the mid it should be delayed.
Stacy

 

[D'Ecosse]

Ken D'ecosse seemed to think it was a great spot for them,but he did mention soething about imaging,because the tweeter is so far from the mid it should be delayed.
Stacy

OK - time out (every pun intended!)

- a stretch to say it should be delayed.
I was offering that delay gives a superlative performance but it is still going to pretty good even without it in your design. The delay is more a factor of that driver's one being so close realtive to the passenger one, rather than being far from the mid. Especially with the directionality you have included in the design, I would think it might be just fine as-is.
Ideally you wouldn't need time alignment - the NSX causes additional challenges because the cabin is so small. I have mine set with a fairly small TD between the mids & tweeters compared to the difference between the lefts & rights.
One thing to play with without the need for electronic time alignment is to play with the phasing of the components: try switching the + & - of each component. (this is simulating the effect you get from time alignment although you don't have the variability, just a fixed change from the phase switch) It takes a lot of listening & repeated switching back & forward to determine the difference but can be significant. Kinda like the optomotrists - # 1 or #2 better? :biggrin: I used this method on my last set-up before I got the Alpine with TA. I had bullet connectors on the speaker leads to test the difference. Keep your right mid fixed, then progressively change each of the other 3 - I think you may find the biggest difference by re-phasing the driver's side tweeter alone, but try different combinations.
Now having said all that - it may be just fine without any of that! With the expense you guys are putting into this hardware, it's worth a little extra effort to get the very best from them though.
With your skills Stacy, another consideration could have been the "A" pillars - although that puts them further away from the mids, it does get them closer to each other in terms of path lengths.

By the way, major kudos on your tweeter pod & trunk fabrication - that is really fine work!

I'm going to have to get a side of your skirts now for sure!
Maybe a similar trunk design as a winter project will be on the cards! Love it man!

 

[Tewen]

I don't know haven't driven it since I did all this.Everything is pretty light weight except for the amp and amp rack.I removed carpet and tools out that will compensate a tiny bit.My car is just a cruiser,not really a speed thing for me.I know the next question"If it's not a speed thing,then why a nitrous bottle" LOL.
Just so I can keep up with the others.
Stacy

Well if your gonna cruise, you might as well do it in style! I cant wait to see it finished!!

 

[Malibu Rapper]

The wireless connection is going to be a piece of cake compared to what you've already done. The system looks awesome!

I really like your tweeter pod. I think it's a great location for them and I'm going to be doing something very similar for a car I'm working on. Are yours covered in vinyl? Also, are you running into any heat issues yet in the trunk? Do you have a cooling solution yet?

 

[ChrisK]

Looks great. As for the wireless, I can't confirm, but I know wireless can be done successfully in a car. My example is my friend's ML320. He installed a mac laptop into his car and intergrated it well. When the car is on it charges the laptop and when the car is off it goes into sleep mode. Anyway, what I was getting at is he has all his MP3 and other files in there and simply uses bluetooth to download and communicate with his other bluetooth devices. He even uses his bluetooth cell phone as the remote control. It is pretty trick as his phone shows all the MP3 files in a list and he can use the phones volume up/down to raise the volume of the car system. Up front is a small VGA LCD as well. Anyway, that just shows what you are trying to do is possible, you just need to figure it out on your own system. I think it would be a real trick system once you are done with it.

 

[stacy'snsx]

The wireless connection is going to be a piece of cake compared to what you've already done. The system looks awesome!

I really like your tweeter pod. I think it's a great location for them and I'm going to be doing something very similar for a car I'm working on. Are yours covered in vinyl? Also, are you running into any heat issues yet in the trunk? Do you have a cooling solution yet?

I haven't fired it up yet,I am anticipating a heat issue.I dyno-matted the better part of the trunk floor,hoping it will help a bit.I noticed also there is a vent right behind the amplifiers,it leads to the outside of the car,if I do have a problem I will run a fan either pushing or pulling air around.
The tweeter pod is painted in a factory trim colour and sprayed with a factory texture the same colour.Looks exactly like a factoy piece.

Stacy

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Stacy, for a person that's not a self-proclaimed audiophile you did a superb job.

That vent in the side, I noticed this weekend that it's almost a perfect fit for a high CFM crossflow fan blowing out. It will help that your amps are there. Air in and air out, that's how to stay cool.

 

[D'Ecosse]

That vent in the side, I noticed this weekend that it's almost a perfect fit for a high CFM crossflow fan blowing out. It will help that your amps are there. Air in and air out, that's how to stay cool.

That's where I have my 6 x 6 fan. I think one mistake a lot of people make when they install a fan there however Bradley, is that in order for your equation to work (air in & air out) you must have somewhere to let the make-up air IN! It won't draw squat out of that vent regardless of how much cfm your fan is capable of transferring, unless there is an intake somewhere else in the trunk - it's a pretty airtight compartment (which is why that flapper vent is there to begin with - to allow the air to escape as you close the trunk). It's quite obvious once you realize - you can't suck any air out unless you have something to replace it with.
I actually drilled about 6 x 1/2" holes on the floor of the trunk on the left side of the car over by the fender well to provide an intake - that gives a true cross flow across the trunk (in my case it's ducted predominantly in the "sub-floor" to keep my Tru cool.)
With Stacy's 'bath-tub" the question is whether to move the air around the outside of the shell, or the inside, to provide the best cooling for the amps. Looks like the outside might work - but perhaps an additional fan on the left side of the tub pushing air into the interior, would allow air to flow around the inside as well as around the outside. I assume there is airspace around the amps to allow air passage by them which would be the exit path to the primary extract fan.
In summary, for Stacy's design, my suggestion would be to have one fan mounted on the vent (right side) pulling out, one fan on the left side of tub somewhere pushing or pulling in (depending on whether mounted on inside or outside of shell or even built into shell) and vent holes on the left floor or inside fender for intake.

I already got some shock/horror comments "you drilled holes in your NSX???" but unless you're prepared to do this that extract fan doesn't make much sense.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I think one mistake a lot of people make when they install a fan there however Bradley, is that in order for your equation to work (air in & air out) you must have somewhere to let the make-up air IN!

Exactly. I'm not scared of poking holes in my car. If done right, you won't really hurt the car. You can cover the holes up with goretex to keep dust out and let the air in. Another good option are the computer dust filters that they use for fans.

I bought a couple of these Xscorpion crossflow fans from my distributor the other day. At about $15 a piece, they move a lot of air and the shape of the air movement is almost the same as that ventilation flap. I'll try to line it up with the hole this weekend and see how it looks.

 

[stacy'snsx]

Stacy, for a person that's not a self-proclaimed audiophile you did a superb job.

Any compliments coming from people on this site is quite flattering,but coming from the "STEREO GURU'S" themselves,"PRICELESS"!!!
Thanks alot guys for everything including your helpful advice(D'eccose,Malibu Rapper and SNDSOUL).
I think I can speak for a few here and say without you guys alot of us would be " doomed" and/or "broke".
Stacy

 

[01blacks4]

man how lond does it take for me to get audiophile status around here?

 

[Malibu Rapper]

man how lond does it take for me to get audiophile status around here?

Ok you get it but Stacy was in line ahead of you.

 

[Joshs]

Here's my attempt at keeping my carputer cool. I've been through several attempts, and while this one works quite well, it isn't quite good enough for all situations.

First 2 Pics:

The blue duct is an intake that funnels air from the fender directly into the PC. There's an 80mm fan attached using only 2 of the 4 screw holes to the end of the blue ducting. That fan is placed on the inside of the fender, through the vent hole. The sizing is so perfect that you can slide the edges of the vent-hole between the fan and plastic end of the blue ducting if you only attach 2 screws on one side of the fan, and the fit is pretty tight. Because the vent-hole is rectangular, there's enough room to fit a second fan in the vent. I used a 'squirrel cage blower, positioned to push hot air out of the trunk and back into the fender opening.

Although the air is being pulled from the same location that it is being exhausted, the idea is that since that fender area is open, and air can flow from the side air intake, allowing for the hot exhaust air to mix with fresh air, thus lowering the PC's air intake temps.

Initial attempts didn't include the ducting of fresh air directly to the PC, and weren't as successful. This setup works good enough most of the time, but fails when it a very sunny hot day, AND I'm stuck in traffic. As long as I'm moving, enough air is introduced to keep my PC working. If instead the PC is running hot and I'm forced to stop for a bit in traffic, the machine will overheat.

I think that when the vehicle stops, no air comes in the side intake, which allows the air temp in the fender to rise too much. One idea I had was to install a switch that would allow me to turn on the engine bay fan, which would draw in air to the fender and perhaps be enough to keep the PC alive when stopped. The alternative would be to run an actual duct all the way from the side intake back to the vent.

I realize this isn't the prettiest install, as it's a work in progress, but the benefit it has is that it's 100% revertable to stock, without needing holes drilled. It's also worth noting that the operating temperature of a PC is lower than an amp, so if you were just running amps, its possible that a simple air exchange with the fender air would be sufficient.

-Josh

 

[D'Ecosse]

Very creative Josh - I think you already realize the limitation by having the intake & exhaust on the same port however. Did you remove the flapper or does the exhaust fan blow it out sufficently to keep a flow on the intake side? Regardless the flapper would seriously inhibit the flow so I assume you removed it. (Amp cooling desgn descibed in my post above probably would not need the flapper removed as it is only exhausting - mine blows out substantially when the fan is operating)

... It's also worth noting that the operating temperature of a PC is lower than an amp, so if you were just running amps, its possible that a simple air exchange with the fender air would be sufficient.

Not sure I follow this train of thought - amps run hotter therfor needs less cooling??

 

[SoCalDude]

Here's my attempt at keeping my carputer cool. I've been through several attempts, and while this one works quite well, it isn't quite good enough for all situations.

Hey Josh

Can't wait to see your set up. Hope you bring it by to the next CalCoastal meeting! :biggrin:

 

[Joshs]

Very creative Josh - I think you already realize the limitation by having the intake & exhaust on the same port however. Did you remove the flapper or does the exhaust fan blow it out sufficently to keep a flow on the intake side? Regardless the flapper would seriously inhibit the flow so I assume you removed it. (Amp cooling desgn descibed in my post above probably would not need the flapper removed as it is only exhausting - mine blows out substantially when the fan is operating)

Not sure I follow this train of thought - amps run hotter therfor needs less cooling??

It's definitely limited by the closeness of the intake and exhaust ports - which I'm hoping to mitigate by using the engine bay fan or adding some additional ducting to move the intake port all the way up to the car's side intake. I use it as my daily driver and it works fine on most trips - the only time I have problems is on long trips on a very hot day. Even in those cases I get 1-2 hours of action before overheating. In the morning/evening/night, I have no problems.

What I meant about the amps running hotter - The max acceptable operating temp of the amp is greater than that for the PC - meaning that when your trunk reaches a temperature that is too hot for a PC, the amp still works (I've experienced this- the PC will fail, but I can still listen to the radio and use the amp). Therefore, you don't need to maintain as low a trunk temp if you're only keeping amps back there.

edit* - Yes I did remove the rubber flapper, although a previous design left it in place. Before I fashioned a two-ported duct piece that fit in the vent hole, and the duct extended far enough into the fender that it held the rubber out of the way. Eventually I decided that it was just in the way so I pulled it out. Since it attaches at a point above the vent hole, and there's a fan that would hold it propped up and out of the way, it could be left in, but there's no need for it in this scenario.

-Josh

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Josh, have you considered using a mini-ITX computer or the Mac Mini?

 

[Joshs]

Hey Josh

Can't wait to see your set up. Hope you bring it by to the next CalCoastal meeting! :biggrin:

Thanks for the support! I'll keep an ear open and try to make it to one of the upcoming ones! I spend enough time in SM that it shouldn't be too difficult

-Josh

 

[Joshs]

Josh, have you considered using a mini-ITX computer or the Mac Mini?

Both of those are good options, and would probably generate less heat than my current configuration.

I started out using a Mocha PC, which is about the same size as the mini. I never had overheating problems, but it was located inside the glovebox, and required the use of an inverter so I could plug in the 120v->20v power supply. Unfortunately, the Mocha stopped working, so I decided/had to move to a different platform. I also decided on locating the computer in the trunk - a better location anyway since it doesnt eat up interior compartment space, and also the computer's size isn't limited by the glovebox.

At that point, I wanted to move to a platform that offered expandability, and could leverage the collection of hardware I already have at my disposal. I've got a dual g5, and the mini's are cool, but I like Centrafuse as a software frontend, and I've already got all the supplemental software I need for running other applications on my carputer (nav, topo, wifi scanning,etc).

The miniITX is a really good option, but I decided to go with the Shuttle since I already owned one. As I had just bought the Mocha, I was hesitant to buy yet another machine because I've got too many already.. I haven't looked into specific miniITX boards, but I seem to remember them being somewhat expensive, and (I may be wrong about this) I think they generally use slower CPU's. In addition to all the nav and frontend stuff, I plan to have the pc recording at least 2 video streams at all times, so the more CPU i have available the better (no room for hardware encoder boards). The cpu I'm using is an underclocked athlon 2400+ (or something around there).

Since it does work 95% of the time, I'm still going to try a few more things before I abandon the Shuttkle. However, if I can't come up with a solution to get the pc operating under extreme conditions, I will be faced with the fact that I will have to switch to a different platform. At that point, I will almost certainly go mini-itx!

-Josh

 

[Malibu Rapper]

I don't want to draw the discussion too far off topic but the PC subject is an interesting one. Yes, mini-ITX is kind of expensive and will use the slower processors unless you dropped the extra cash to buy the faster boards and CPUs.

SFF PCs are going to be more abundant soon. Real small ones like the Mac Mini. This is what Intel was showing at IDF: