metall noise after bilstein install

[ACCD]

Seems like I had the same sympton/question. I just installed Eibachs..

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75514

Springs were dealer installed, I couldn't find anything when it was on the lift.

very odd. still giving me a headache

accd

 

[kreh]

check your spare tire mount and make sure it is not rattling on the frame.

 

[nsxer1110]

Just to post my 2c

My car does the same thing after the bilsteins were added: I checked all of the above as well and have not found anything. I think it is just my smart car telling me when she is fully warmed up so I get jump on her.

Dont know, Noised or not; this car hands down is better then my STI was. And that was pumped to 400 ponies.

a-man

 

[ENSSEX]

soory to bring back a 3 yr old thread but I too have a noise that MAY be temperature related but my noise sounds like a "er er er noise kinda rubbery .. I am running oem springs and Bilsteins on the lower perch it make me want to take my car to the scrap yard! anyone solve this yet?

this guy sounds like ME http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86545&highlight=bilstein+noise

 

[austrian type-R]

When you have the oem soft suspension, the clicking noise is not there, aince the suspension has much way to travel and damp down very soft when you go over a bump. Afer installing a harder suspension, the dambing way is shorter versus the oem suspension. This is also temperature related, since when it is warm, metall is getting bigger.

Check yout steering rack, you will find a play on the passenger side. it is not the tie rod, it is the rack itself.

 

[ENSSEX]

this is such a HARD noise to find where it is coming from.... what do you suggest for tightening up the rack SOS rack bushings?

 

[NMYMIRR]

this is such a HARD noise to find where it is coming from.... what do you suggest for tightening up the rack SOS rack bushings?

You might want to check this. If you're running aftermarket rims/tires and depending on the offset of them it can be rubbing. I had this happen to me after I installed the bilsteins with my OEM springs. The Bilstein's perch at the top of the strut was touching my rear tires. It was rubbing on the insides side walls of my rear tires which left a groove on the tire all the way around. If it's a metal rubbing sound, then maybe it's touching your rims? However this wasn't making any rubbing noise that I can hear. I only noticed it after I was took my rims/tires off the car for another set to be put on.

 

[greenberet]

The service manager at my local Honda NSX dealership noticed a strange noise from the front of my car when driving over bumps. After I told him the car has Bilstein shocks he said, "ah, that's what it is." He said he put Bilstein shocks into his old Alfa Romeos and that the valves in the shocks simply make that noise while the shocks are cold. After they warm up, the noise goes away.

If he's right, that noise should be especially present on cool days when you just start driving. After driving hard or driving over a bumpy road for a while, the sound should be less noticeable or gone. And if he's right, it's unfortunately a design issue that no amount of tightening and new bushings is going to solve. I hope he's wrong.

 

[austrian type-R]

I had Bilsteins and now JIC coilovers. Why don''t just lift up the car and check if you have a play on the rack, that has nothing to do with the bushings. It is the inner teeth rod which has an play. Many people have told me the same on hondansx.de

MY friend has the bilsteins too, damn he has my old bilstein dampers and he has no noises. Running the same 4 dampers around and he has no noise and on my nsx there was the noise.

the I thought it is the tie rod, so I took off the whole steering rack, tried to chance the tie rod thingys and now with the deinstalled rack in the hand I saw the play is not coming from the tie rod, it is coming from the rack inside.

now with my JIC coilovers there is the same issue. I was so tired of that damn noise, so after 3 years I found it out. It is the steering rack. right front. I bet a box of beer with you.

 

[greenberet]

A case of beer? All right, you’re on!

After reading through the thread again, I think there are at least two different noises being talked about, though.

My car developed a kind of rubber/metal squeaking/creaking noise when driving over big bumps right after installing the Bilsteins. With the Eibach spring / OEM damper combination I had on before, which lowered the car more than the Bilsteins do, there was no noise. Immediately after replacing that combination with Bilsteins and OEM springs the squeaking was there. I disassembled everything again, made sure every piece of rubber was where it should be, that the springs were perfectly centered in their seats, I preloaded the suspension, torqued every nut and bolt exactly to spec, greased all the bushings with silicone grease, centered the sway bar, ensured the battery tray could never contact the sway bar, etc. The squeaking was still there. After hearing that noise, my service manager said that was the typical cold Bilstein squeaking he knew from his Alfas.

The noise you posted about is a clicking though, not a squeaking. My car slowly developed a clicking from the right front wheel area years ago when I had the Eibach springs and OEM dampers. Just as you describe, it was play between the steering gear box and the rack inside it on the passenger side. Since the bushing in the steering gear box cannot be replaced, I had to replace the entire thing. With the new steering gear box, the play was gone and so was the clicking. Now, years later, I’m starting to get play at the exact same point again and the metallic clicking is starting to come back.

My hypothesis regarding the clicking: when the car is lowered, the tie rods and steering rack are no longer on the same plane. When you lower the car, the steering rack is lowered relative to the wheels, so the tie rods point down towards the steering rack. Bumps and even just steering will tend to exert greater vertical forces on the rack. That will wear out the bushings inside the steering gear box faster than if the car were not lowered. If the bushing on the passenger side already has some play maybe you don’t get the clicking very much if the car is not lowered because there are not many vertical forces on the rack. When you lower the car (for example with Bilsteins), vertical forces will be exerted on the rack and if there is play, you’ll notice it with that clicking noise.

In my case, a new steering gear box got rid of the clicking on the passenger side, as you described. I have yet to find a cure for the squeaking, though.

Now about that beer…

 

[goldNSX]

My hypothesis regarding the clicking: when the car is lowered, the tie rods and steering rack are no longer on the same plane. When you lower the car, the steering rack is lowered relative to the wheels, so the tie rods point down towards the steering rack. Bumps and even just steering will tend to exert greater vertical forces on the rack. That will wear out the bushings inside the steering gear box faster than if the car were not lowered. If the bushing on the passenger side already has some play maybe you don’t get the clicking very much if the car is not lowered because there are not many vertical forces on the rack. When you lower the car (for example with Bilsteins), vertical forces will be exerted on the rack and if there is play, you’ll notice it with that clicking noise.

Adding to your hypothesis: the wider the tires and the lower the offset of the rims the higher the forces on the bushings. The passanger side gets more potholes than the driver side so it normally starts on the right side first.

 

[greenberet]

Another reason the clicking starts on the passenger side: the steering gear box is not symmetrical. There's a rack guide screw on the driver's side with which you can adjust the rack if it gets loose. There's nothing to adjust on the passenger's side, however. There's just a bushing inside the steering gear box that wears out and is not designed to be replaced.

 

[goldNSX]

There's just a bushing inside the steering gear box that wears out and is not designed to be replaced.

Just wondering why other Honda gearboxes have replaceable bushings (in Civics?). A friend of mine is working on a replacement...but on the other hand a new steering gearbox is cheap enough if it's a manual.

 

[sparky]

For the record I too have Bilsteins and get the squishy noise while the shocks are cold, but I think it's from front only.

I was going to pull them out and send them to Bilstein for check, but having read this I think I'll just live with it. NSX prime is good :smile:

The noise is not very annoying and goes away once they warm up, so as long as they're working properly I can ignore the squish

 

[ENSSEX]

thank you Scientists the squishy noise sound like COLD bilsteins

 

[cparsons]

Mine sounds like a knocking, almost like a loose part that's not bolted down all the way. Of course it goes away once the car has been driven for 10 minutes or so....warmed up, I guess.

Does it sound like the steering gearbox explanation is the answer for me?

 

[greenberet]

Oh man, a knocking that goes away when the car is warmed up. Interesting. A knocking from the front on the passenger's side when going over bumps definitely could be a worn bushing in the steering gear box. I personally don't have experience with that going away when the car is warm, though.

If you lift up your car, grab hold of the passenger side tie rod, and then push up and down, you can tell if there's play between the rack and the steering gear box. If there's no play on the wheel side of the tie rod but you can see the rack going up and down a little and can reproduce the noise - you probably found the culprit. There should be no play on either end. If you then replace the steering gear box (gotta thank Honda for not selling that bushing on its own) and the noise is gone, please post up your results. If you replace the steering gear box and the noise is still there then, um..., well... I guess it was something else.

Judging by your personal profile, it doesn't look like you have Bilstein shocks, so at least that can be ruled out. Your Eibach springs lower the car and that can cause increased knocking if there's play in the steering gear box. But it could be other things as well. Hmm, what would go away when the car is warm...

 

[cparsons]

Oh man, a knocking that goes away when the car is warmed up. Interesting. A knocking from the front on the passenger's side when going over bumps definitely could be a worn bushing in the steering gear box. I personally don't have experience with that going away when the car is warm, though.

If you lift up your car, grab hold of the passenger side tie rod, and then push up and down, you can tell if there's play between the rack and the steering gear box. If there's no play on the wheel side of the tie rod but you can see the rack going up and down a little and can reproduce the noise - you probably found the culprit. There should be no play on either end. If you then replace the steering gear box (gotta thank Honda for not selling that bushing on its own) and the noise is gone, please post up your results. If you replace the steering gear box and the noise is still there then, um..., well... I guess it was something else.

Judging by your personal profile, it doesn't look like you have Bilstein shocks, so at least that can be ruled out. Your Eibach springs lower the car and that can cause increased knocking if there's play in the steering gear box. But it could be other things as well. Hmm, what would go away when the car is warm...

I do have Bilstein shocks.... stock springs...

 

[greenberet]

OK, I was thrown off by "Eibach shocks" in your Public Profile.

I'd still check for play between the steering gear box and the rack just to make sure. When driving, you can hear that noise comes from the front on the passenger's side, though.

If your noise doesn't come from the passenger's side, the shocks are probably a better bet. In my car the noise also sounds like something is a little bit loose when the car is cold, so maybe it's the same noise as yours.

 

[cparsons]

OK, I was thrown off by "Eibach shocks" in your Public Profile.

I'd still check for play between the steering gear box and the rack just to make sure. When driving, you can hear that noise comes from the front on the passenger's side, though.

If your noise doesn't come from the passenger's side, the shocks are probably a better bet. In my car the noise also sounds like something is a little bit loose when the car is cold, so maybe it's the same noise as yours.

Oops, I must have been having a brain fart when I made my profile. I have the bilsteins, not eibachs.

And yes, the noise is from the passenger side. Seems to be from the front...

I'll do what you suggested to check for play in the tie rods and steering box. How much $$$ is a new steering gearbox?

 

[greenberet]

The steering gear box costs several hundred dollars, but I'm not sure what the current price is (I bought my last one in 2002). From my records, I think the part number is 53040SL0A01. Maybe you can check the price at www.acuraoemparts.com. Since I'm not in the US, I'm not allowed access.

 

[sparky]

does this problem occur in the electric power steering units, or only the un-powered steering box, or both?

The steering gear box costs several hundred dollars, but I'm not sure what the current price is (I bought my last one in 2002). From my records, I think the part number is 53040SL0A01. Maybe you can check the price at www.acuraoemparts.com. Since I'm not in the US, I'm not allowed access.

 

[cparsons]

the steering gear box costs several hundred dollars, but i'm not sure what the current price is (i bought my last one in 2002). From my records, i think the part number is 53040sl0a01. Maybe you can check the price at www.acuraoemparts.com. Since i'm not in the us, i'm not allowed access.

$701.10

 

[ATERPAK]

Don't use WD-40 for any type of lubricant. It's not really a lubricant although it's advertised as such. It's really more of a solvent with some minor lubricating features built in. It won't last and will eventually dry out. Use a higher quality more permanent type of lubricant such as CRC's Multi-purpose lubricant 3-36 or something like that. Remember all forms of spray lubricants are temporary just due to the nature of the application rather than the lubricant itself. These higher quality lubricants tend to handle greater loads than silicon and last longer. Most of these are available from auto supply stores or on-line. Good luck.

Al T.

 

[greenberet]

I met someone from Bilstein Germany and asked him what could be causing the squishy squeaking noise coming from my front shock absorbers when the car is cold. He mentioned various potential causes, all of which have been brought up in this thread before:

• After installing the shocks, tighten the nuts and bolts again only when the suspension is loaded – preferably by having the car resting on its four wheels
• Make sure the springs are properly centered in their hats
• Make sure the rubber spring seat is properly rotated to match up with the last coil of the spring
• Make sure all the bushings are lubricated

But then he mentioned one last thing that was new:

• Sometimes, when the dampers are cold, the damper rod may squeak as it moves past the rubber seal at the top of the damper body

To test whether that’s the cause of the squeak in my case, he suggested I spray a shot of silicone at the seal. I did that and also lightly sprayed some silicone on the damper rod itself. While I was at it, I sprayed up inside the bellows to make sure the bump stop is coated and I also doused the rubber seat above the spring.

Success! The squishing squeaking noise my car made before it warmed up seems to be gone now. The suspension is quiet as soon as I set off on a drive.

If the noise comes back (since silicone spray is not particularly long-lasting), I’ll use a grease next time. Öhlins makes a grease they recommend be applied to the damper rods and o-rings of their shock absorbers to reduce friction and that sounds like the perfect product for the job. I won’t put it on my rear shock absorbers as preventative maintenance, though. My rear shock absorbers have always been quiet and since grease will attract dirt, I won’t apply it unless I have to.