Misalligned AC compressor pulley

[lankstarr]

Hi guys,

I had a new compressor installed and all was well for a month until the car got serviced. The tightened the belt and 3 miles later half of it flew off (plus lots of lovely smoke:tongue: ).

Honda stealers say that when the compressor was installed before the pulley didnl;t line up properly and that it had been running with the belt only half on (two teeth out). When they tightened it the edge of the pulley cut through the belt and left me with just over half a belt on there.

The car is a '98 manual and the replacement compressor was from a '97. The original mechanic assures me that the parts were identical but he threw the old one away so I can't check.

Has anybody heard of this? Maybe I have the wrong pully on there and this is why it sticks out too far (about 3mm). Otherwise is there any way of adjusting the pulley - the stealers think not.

thanks,

Luke

 

[lankstarr]

I've read up abou the smaller integra pulleys... presumably they would still be in allignment with the remaining two pulleys?

Other than that I can't find anything on the site about misalignment.

There must be some experts at pulling

Thanks

Luke

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I have not seen an alignment issue, even with the Integra pulley. Are you sure the A/C compressor pulley is the one out of alignment.

I am wondering if the tensioner pulley may be out of alignment. I have seen the tensioner pulley assemble put together the wrong way by putting the spacer washer on in the incorrect sequence.

Any chance you can snap a pic of the pulleys from the top view in the engine bay so we can see the problem?

Regards,
LarryB

 

[lankstarr]

I like your thinking... and given that the mechanic that put it on is a bit of a muppet it really wouldn't surprise me!

Here's the best pic I could get. I think the small pulley in the middle is easy to adjust but sits in line pretty much with the crank (?) pulley. It does seem like there is some sort of black spacer in the way of where the compressor pulley needs to be slid to.

What do you think?

Thanks

Luke

 

[Daedalus]

Clearly looks like the compressor pulley is misaligned, and not the tensioner. How odd. The "black spacer" appears to match up as the "field coil" shown in the exploded diagram in the '91 shop manual (22-76). I think I can see wear on the inner ridge where the belt was making contact. Can of worms--see if you can tell if all the mounting bolts are installed correctly, or if the compressor model is the right one. What shop did you go for the original install, and where is it?

 

[lankstarr]

It's in the UK so no danger of anyone takling their cars there!

My dad sells cars and got his mechanic to switch over the compressors. He had the workshop manual and I (naively) thought it was a simple enough job to entrust with him as the car was there waiting for the part anyway.

I got the compressor from Prime - it's second hand but came as a complete unit from a 1997 car. The mechanic assures me that the compressors were identical (the serial numbers were the same). They did replace the tensioner as it was squeaking... could they have been given the wrong tensioner?

I'll have a look at the mounting bolts ... I would have thought Honda would have noticed that when they were trying to figure out why everything didn;t line up but it's certainly worth a look.

Thanks,

Luke

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Well, either it is the wrong compressor, or the wrong clutch/pulley assembly. The other possibility is that the clutch/pulley assembly is not mounted correctly, maybe spacer on wrong, etc.

Sounds like it will need to be removed and checked, unfortunately.

LarryB

 

[lankstarr]

I'll find another pulley from somewhere in ncase it's the wrong one. Hopefully it;s just been put onn wrongly but whilst it's off I might as well have the parts ready in case.

Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how i get on!

Luke

 

[lankstarr]

UPDATE:

I was strugling to find a spare clutch and pulley so thought I'd get HOnda to take the unit off to see if it had been installed incorrectly the first time round.

They say no, something's up with one of the parts and I should get a new unit (comp, clutch & pulley). So they took it off and left it off and I have it sat in front of me (what a beautiful bit of metal it is).

I've searched on here to try and determine which bit is wrong and I think my conclusion is none of it... although I'm not sure about the clutch.

Here's what I know (my car is a 3.2 BTW although I assume all of the compressor assemblies are the same across all years):

Compressor model number DENSO 10PA15C. This tallies with a few references I have found on here although there is one ref to a 10PA17C. If it's the 15C then the compressor is good.

Clutch - all I can find on the clutch to identify it is a little silver sticker that reads:
447300 - 0341
12V 4Q
Denso JAPAN
The facing rubber ring has the number S20I6 stamped on it.

Pulley - The pulley has 3 central teeth and is 5 3/4 inch in diameter. The teeth match the belt and the 5 3/4" diameter tallies with what I have read on here.

As far as I can see everything looks to be the right parts (please correct if you have doubts). When I took it to Honda I asked them to take it off, have a look at it to see whether it had been put together wrongly. This is the only explanation that makes sense to me and I think that the pulley is on upside down which is why my spacer is on the wrong side. I asked them to check this though and I would have thought they would have turned it if it was that simple. I'd have a go at taking it out but there was some talk of shims and realligment so I want to be a bit cautious (I may not be able to get it back together!).

I've attached a couple of pics of mine and of a correctly alligned one on a friend's car. I thought the pulley just looked upside down but the labelled lip in the pic is in the right place on my pulley, it's just like it needs a good whack with a hammer to slide the actual pulley down! Maybe this pulley is the right diameter but for a different car!?

If it is just a new pulley I need then can I buy this on it's own rather than buying the complete clutch set ($750 from Honda in the UK!).

If I can buy a complete unit with the right pulley then I don't mind having a spare as I will probably be able to reuse the pulley if the compressor fails again (unfortunately the old one was binned against my instructions).

Many thanks,

Luke

 

[Jett]

I don't know if these AC compressor photos will help, but you can have a look...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/96-96-Acura-Integra-94-95-96-NSX-AC-Compressor-LKQ_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33543QQihZ012QQitemZ220252606248QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

http://cas07.businessflow.ms/3.9.6/media/item_image_sheet.aspx?domain=lkqonline.com&item_guid=b1000084-3f36-49dd-8a8c-d4149f6c62d4&image_guid=ac2f6d8c-a387-4c04-810d-9b2453297db0

 

[lankstarr]

Thanks Jett - The pulley on that compresssor looks too narrow but I've found another one (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car...81083&_trksid=p3756.m14.l1318#ShippingPayment) that looks to have the right pulley on it.

Unfortunately the key picture showing the spacer is missing but I'm sure I can't be unlucky enough to end up with two pulleys with unexplainable spacing!

Unless anyone advises against remanufactured compressors it looks like the only thing I will need to do is rewire it for the proper connectors.

Thanks,

Luke

 

[ffffanman]

I simply can't believe no one has gone out to their cars, a 98 and a 97 and taken detail photos for you.
Trev
Do any of these help???

 

[lankstarr]

Thanks for the pics Trev, unfortunately they don't help my issue but they'll certainly ce useful for reference.

I oredered a whole new compressor and pulley thinking I couldn't go wrong this time and would be left with a spare compressor for someone... but the guy at Ebay said it doesn't have a 5.75" pulley. He said I can sort it out with a different belt - is he trying to supply me wiith an integra pulley?

I only need the pulley so I might as well try and get the right one!

Thanks,

Luke

 

[Jett]

I ordered a whole new compressor and pulley thinking I couldn't go wrong this time and would be left with a spare compressor for someone... but the guy at Ebay said it doesn't have a 5.75" pulley. He said I can sort it out with a different belt - is he trying to supply me with an Integra pulley?

You have the correct compressor (Denso 10PA15C), so it must be the wrong clutch, pulley, or both. Of these possibilities, I think it is more likely the clutch itself. The clutch in your picture above sure looks fat. Since your old pulley has been "binned", ideally you will want another 5.75" pulley as well as the clutch.

Regarding your Ebay order, I am not sure which compressor you are getting. It will either be a remanufactured compressor, or if it is a new compressor it is most likely a generic made-in-China (The brand will be "NEW" - it will say so on a sticker right on the side of the compressor - and this is what they mean when they advertise a "Brand New Compressor for Acura NSX 1991-2005" - clever hunh?) compressor that has a clutch with a 5" pulley already mounted. Either way, the reason the guy said he doesn't have a 5.75" pulley is that he doesn't have any compressors assembled specifically for an NSX. These parts are built for volume sales, so they size the pulley for an Integra because then it will fit more cars, hence, more sales. The guy isn't really trying to put one over on you. If you look up the compressor for an NSX, it says Denso 10PA15C, and if you look up a compressor for an Integra, it calls for the same part. They probably don't know about the different pulley sizes. They are just going by the book.

You would have three options with the Ebay compressor if you decide to install it.

The first and best option would be to obtain a 5.75" pulley install it on the new clutch on the new compressor. The pulley is removable with a puller and can be swapped to the new clutch on the new compressor.

The second option is to keep the 5" pulley and go with a smaller belt. So what is the downside with this option? The 5" pulley will cause the compressor to turn 15% faster, possibly too fast at higher rpms, fast enough to cause bearing premature bearing failure in the clutch. This is why the NSX compressor is "geared down" with a larger pulley - to keep the engine from overdriving the compressor at higher RPMs. I still think this is a viable option nonetheless. I don't really recommend this setup, but I am currently running this same setup without any trouble, so far, and the faster spin rate at lower rpms probably cools the car better. I rarely drive triple digits (I do once in a blue moon...) so I am not personally that concerned about overdriving the compressor, but it is a valid concern. Note that the compressor activates anytime the HVAC system is turned on, even when you run heat or defrost in the winter. (You can manually turn it off from the climate control panel.)

A possible third option would be for you to try to investigate which other Hondas/Acuras possibly do have a 5.75" pulley, and if you can identify one, get them to swap out the pulleys before they ship it. I am not sure if they would be willing to do this, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

I recently had one of these "NEW" compressors installed in my car. My tech elected to keep the 5" pulley, but if I had to do it all over again I would insist that they pull the 5.75" pulley and swap it out. So how is my "NEW" compressor doing so far? So far it is working fine, but I also spend 99% of my time in the lower RPM range, as I am not out hot-shoeing around. I would still recommend swapping out the pulley to one of the correct diameter if you can locate one.

 

[lankstarr]

Thanks Jett, it's good to hear that yoru still running fine with the small pulley. The thing that really confuses me is that I brought a new compressor with a 5.75" pulley and it doesn;t line up properly:frown:

Whilst it's all off and I'm paying for labour I'm going to try and source the right pulley. They're £500 in the UK so I've emailed Ray Lakes Acura metioning Larry to ask them to ship one to me. Thankfully they nbow ship to the UK.

I've already got the belt and asked for a receiver dryer as well so hopefully it will all get sorted once it's been shipped out.

I wondered how they were selling those new compressors so cheaply, still a good deal though I think... shame they can't get the right pulley!

Luke

 

[Jett]

The thing that really confuses me is that I brought a new compressor with a 5.75" pulley and it doesn;t line up properly.

I just want to sort out the terminology here for a moment. For the purposes of this discussion, the compressor has three major components, the compressor, the clutch, and the pulley. You have the correct compressor, and had (before it was "binned"?) the correct size pulley, so it must be the clutch itself, right? (again, the clutch in your "before, misaligned" photo sure looks fat). I would focus on obtaining the correct clutch and correct size pulley, as opposed to just the correct pulley.

When you reference sourcing a pulley, it makes me think that you are ignoring the clutch or are not treating it as a separate component. They are assembled as a unit, yet different. Or maybe this is not the case and you are just referring to the clutch/pulley as a pulley for simplicity's sake. I just want to make sure that you are focused on obtaining the correct clutch, and not just another correctly sized pulley.

NSX AC Compressor components

Best of Luck!

 

[lankstarr]

I was just referring to the pulley but it makes sense that it is the clutch atht is wrong. I've not had the thing apart so am not really sure where pulley stops and clutch starts!

Thanks for pointing that out and for the link, I think I will just harass Acura dealers over there until I can get one to send me the clutch/pulley set. The link you have is less than a quarter of the price the Honda stealers over here charge.

Thanks,

Luke

 

[Jett]

Another thing that makes me think it is the clutch is that even the wrong size pulley (5", Integra") will line up when installed. So if you have the correct compressor, it must be the clutch.

It appears to me that you should be able to obtain the correct parts from Acura by referencing the diagram above, then bolting those parts to your existing compressor. If your local Acura stealer won't cooperate, at less than 1/4 the price just order the components you think you need from Delray Acura. But I would lean real hard on your local Acura stealer first.

 

[lankstarr]

The car isn;t fixed but I think I've finally worked out what the issue is.

Pre and post 1997 clutch sets are different; they have model numbers A03 and A04 respectively and this must account for the misallignment. The compressor I brought from Prime was from a 1997 car so should have fit my 3.2, it must have been from a 3.0 auto which would explain why it still had the old allignment.

I sourced another compressor (I'm collecting the damn things now!) and the pulley assebly was identical to the one I have - it was from a 1994 car. At a recent meet I compared 3.0 and 3.2 manual cars and saw that the pulleys were spaced differently.

Here's the link to the page for a pre 1997 car to compare to the link for post 1997 cars above.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray...A/C+++++COMPRESSOR+(2)&ListAll=All&vinsrch=no

Many thanks for your help with this, when I've managed to find someone over there nice enough to ship me a post 1997 clutch set I'll let you know whether it all fits!

Thanks,

Luke

 

[Jett]

Ever get it straightened out?

 

[RON98]

transfer your old a/c clutch & pulley to the new compressor.