Has anyone ever tried this? A friend of mine is trying to get me to do it and I am a little skeptical. The product looks nice and it doesn't taste bad.
Thoughts anyone?
Thoughts anyone?
MonaVie
- Thread starter NetViper
- Start date
what is it?
My mom got into the whole selling network for that stuff. I tried it once and it wasn't bad, but I'm not a believer in anything it does.
It is a drink made from acai berry. Has a ton of anti oxidants etc.
It is a network marketing program and it seems to be well planned out. I am not sure if it is worth the time to try it.
You can read about it at monavie.com.
It is a network marketing program and it seems to be well planned out. I am not sure if it is worth the time to try it.
You can read about it at monavie.com.
monaVie was formly known as Monarch Health Sciences (Irvine, CA). a bit of history on this company... the founder actually used to work as one of the VP team members in USANA health sciences
he broke away to form Monarch Health Sciences to directly compete against usana. his products/approach was almost identical. but after failing to sort of grab a market there, he dropped the multi-vitamin/health product line and started to forumlate juices.
the "JUICE" industry is one of the latest crazes: noni, xango, monavie, viva la viente, etc....
the concept is generally the same. special juice formulations with exotic fruits or extracts allows body to see great results. some claim it cures a lot of stuff. but scientifically speaking, the juices DO contain lots of anti-oxidants which is generally a good defensive measure anyways for the body...
downside to juices are: it tends to cost a fair amount per serving, its large/and bulking (traveling around with wine bottle size bottles). and with recent scientific studies, the anti-oxidant levels found in MOST juices, are about the same that of good quality red wines as well... so all in all, nothing out of the ordinary special.
while MLM (network marketing) will be a FOREVER controversial/heated argument, if one is to at least consider its option, monavie IS a legitmate company from a legal stand point. has a good product, but not a specialty niche or exclusive product. with recent news exposures on "JUICES" the overall industry trend is on a downturn. most people in US would rather take a conservative approach to their health... ie: exercise, good diet, multi-vitamins, etc....
the idea of taking Juices, or non-traditional delivery methods of vitamins/anti-oxidants doesn't sit well with most consumers...
hope that helps. you can PM me for more detailed info if you want....
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- Messages
- 1,809
Having long been a sceptic of MLM, I dug into this a bit deeper when one of my friends got deeply involved in MonaVie, on an almost fanatical level. The claims she made for MonaVie were questionable at best, and outright laughable at worst. She could never provide any hard scientific studies or evidence for anything that was claimed. We've since grown a bit apart, as she grew closer to the circle of MonaVie friends since her indoctrination. It seems as people get deeper and deeper into these things, they are encouraged to slowly drift away from outsiders and skeptics and closer to the MLM group. As our parents are close friends, I know that she would not do anything to intentionally deceive me, and risk that relationship. Thus, I think she really believes all of the claims and propaganda, no matter how outrageous or outlandish they may sound.
That said, to humor my friend initially, I was on MonaVie for 2 months, and I neither felt nor noticed any difference at all when compared to my pre-MonaVie existence, despite the claims that I would feel better, have more energy, chronic ailments would go away, etc.
As another sidenote, if you decide you like MonaVie, and want to continue purchasing it, you can usually get it off of eBay for about 1/2 the price you would be able to get it from one of the "distributors".
Googling around awhile back, I found a blog which had a fairly good and objective exposé on MonaVie, but it's since been taken down. I'll repost it in the following posts. The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
One of the main points is that the Acai berry, which is the claimed "magical" ingredient of MonaVie, comprises less than 5% of the overall formula, and that there are much cheaper and more potent sources of Acai out there that if what is said about Acai is true, would be much better sources than MonaVie, which appears to be mostly sugar and water. It also delves into the whole MLM controversy.
That said, to humor my friend initially, I was on MonaVie for 2 months, and I neither felt nor noticed any difference at all when compared to my pre-MonaVie existence, despite the claims that I would feel better, have more energy, chronic ailments would go away, etc.
As another sidenote, if you decide you like MonaVie, and want to continue purchasing it, you can usually get it off of eBay for about 1/2 the price you would be able to get it from one of the "distributors".
Googling around awhile back, I found a blog which had a fairly good and objective exposé on MonaVie, but it's since been taken down. I'll repost it in the following posts. The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
One of the main points is that the Acai berry, which is the claimed "magical" ingredient of MonaVie, comprises less than 5% of the overall formula, and that there are much cheaper and more potent sources of Acai out there that if what is said about Acai is true, would be much better sources than MonaVie, which appears to be mostly sugar and water. It also delves into the whole MLM controversy.
Last edited:
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MonaVie Exposé (Very long)
I am not the author of this material - so don't shoot the messenger. :tongue: The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
It's long, and will take awhile to get through...
Reposted from a now defunct blog (w/o permission). If the owner of this content would like this post to be removed, please let me know, and I will take it down immediately.
Reposted material begins here:
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Posted Tuesday February 28, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida I
The other day a friend of mine went nuts.
All over sudden he become an expert in health issues, knew what antioxidants were and had a fantastic healing from one day to another. Oh - at the same time his IQ sank to about room temperature values in Celsius.
What happend? Beats me! That’s not quite true - since I know what has gotten into him - only it took me about two seconds to figure it as what it is - a pyramid scheme dressed up as serious business.
So why is it bothering me?
Mainly because it isn’t an honest business. All but the higher charges in the kind of business scheme are loosing for a variety of reasons - and all of them are irrefutable.
For one there is there the curiosity - that the paths of the key executives of all 4 companies have crossed and in some instances they even worked side by side.
Some of them are the very same people who started the Noni Fruit Juice scenario.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art4883.asp
http://noni.worldwidewarning.net/
Noni was introduced by Morinda Inc. and their leading management split to formed new companies called Monarch Health Sciences and Tahitian Noni with the same scheme, same tactics and same formulation.
http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm(Mangosteen: Cancer researcher Dr. Ralph Moss takes a realistic look at one of the popular network marketing cure-alls like Xango or
Noni)
All of this alone raises warning flags the size of the Empire State Building,
especially considering, that even arch conservative networks like CBS already had features about Noni and similar schemes, exposing their tactics.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
What startled me right away were the outlandish promises, provided by the Mona Vie People.
According to them it’s a miracle - the one cure for almost any disease and ailment you can think of.
* "It cures cancer with a 85% success rate!",
* "People who could only go on crutches can walk now freely and without Pain!"
* "It cures arthritis"
* "It improves eyesight"
* "It gives smooth skin"
* "It cures Back pain"
and this list goes on and on, supported by testimonial over testimonial.
Having become curious on those testimonials I scouted the net - and one thing became clear and obvious pretty fast.
I didn’t found testimonials that enabled you to contact the person making it. Not that it is required, not that it means that they are all lies - but if on none of the virtually 1000’s of pages contact options are shown is a little odd.
But what really shows the quality of these testimonials are incidents like this:
Hello, My name is André Lachapelle, I am 62 years old and I
am a professor of dance.
I had an operation on my hip in 2003 and since I used MonaVie
my leg became more flexible than ever before and since I have
50% more energy on all the levels and that justifies to me to
make the promotion of MonaVie. This product is formidable!
Andre Lachapelle, Canada
Hello, My name is Danielle Lamalice, I am 57 years old and I
am a professor of dance.
Since I use MonaVie, I felt much more energy, because I can
teach from 5 to 8 hours per day without feeling any tiredness.
In 1984, I had a car accident and I had broken ankle in a
thousand crumbs and thanks to MonaVie the pain caused
by osteoarthritis decreased by 60% and my legs feel much
less tension. I feel that my body functions like a 30 year old
woman! Thank you In MonaVie!
Danielle Lamalice, Mascouche
Now isn’t that something? I never knew that there is something like a professor of dance - and here I find them on a MonaVie Testimonial Page one after the other.
And they must be soul siblings - since they even used identical introductions.
Hmm - how strange.
And believe it or not - both have French names. (Probably because if you have a French sounding name you’re either a cook or a ballet dancer - duh!)
But strange nevertheless…
But it get’s better. Both even know to the percentile how much better they feel.
"Yes my dear - I feel 38% finer then I did yesterday".
How often have we heard someone saying something like that.
Oh - we don’t? Oh - strange again….
Chances of that happening are what? -
A gazillion to One?
These testimonials - and many others like it make it pretty obvious what they are:
Doctored !!
Now - to make that clear - I truly believe that some people feel better - and I am
not surprised by it. But I also know, that "Placebo’s" work and are routinely used
in hospitals and by doctors. Same goes for the power of suggestion. If everybody around you tells you how miraculous a medicine is - the mind will help!!
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Posted Wednesday March 1, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida II
So what do we know by now as a fact?
1. The same executives, that brought us Noni are now heading two new companies, that have new products out, that follow exactly the same scheme.
Given the fact that Noni already is under fire worldwide for unsubstantiated claims, questionable distribution methods, Spam - even
linked to cases of Hepatitis - and the list goes on - it is not really something that anyone would suggest to be too trusting with - knowing the history of these guys.
2. It is more then obvious, that testimonials are being fabricated.
Are they all fake?
Probably not - but if this were to be a murder trial - the suspect would be Scott free - more than just reasonable doubt has been established.
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Posted Thursday March 2, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida III
We found out, that it probably would be wise to use utmost caution with the products in question.
But it gets better - or worse for that matter.
According to not the manufacturer’s but distributors websites these products cure simply everything. That’ll be so cool - if it were to be true.
But is it?
Let’s look into this matter a little deeper, shall we?
What’s in them that causes these "wonderful" healings?
In the case of Mona Vie and Fruta Vida it’s the Açai Berry, for XanGo it’s mangosteen and for Noni it’s the Noni Fruit.
Everything around all marketing efforts concentrates on just those main fruits.
It is puzzling though - that all of them mix with other fruits in their recipes - in case of Mona Vie the Star Açai Berry is at the end of the day only one of 19 different Fruits.
Hmmm - that’s strange.
But hey - they have a website that sheds light on all of them and man - each and every one of them simply burst of benefits to mankind.
There they attribute cure or relief for 181 diseases and ailements to these fruits.
And these are the main ingredients that these fruits contribute:
* Antioxidants
* Polysaccharides
* abundant Vitamin C
* Phytonutrients
* Minerals
* Phenols
* soluble Fiber
* Beta-Carotene
* Magnesium
* Iron
* Phosphorous
* Potassium
* Vitamin B6
* Serotonin
* Norepinephrine
* Calcium
* Potassium
* Sodium
* Sulphur
* B Vitamins
* Proanthocyanidins
* Flavonoids
* Polyphenols
* Copper
* Resveratrol
* Folates
* High levels of dietary fiber
* High levels of essential amino acids
* trace minerals
* High levels of plant sterols
* Essential fatty acids
* Protein profile similar to eggs
* more nutrients per calorie than calories per nutrient
* all in all more than 150 nutritive constituents
Woaahh!!! Isn’t that something?? That must be the end of all disease and suffering!
They probably don’t have enough space on their bottles to print out ALL THAT GOOD STUFF onto the Nutrition Chart!
That’s so exciting! Isn’t it?
So let’s have a look (Just hope that I have enough Webspace to display that many ingredients!!!)
Here we go - and for good measure I display the values for 5 drinks:
1. Coca Cola Classic
2. Açai Pure
3. Minutemaid fresh pressed Orange Juice
4. Mona Vie
5. Fruta Vida.
To enable direct comparison I calculated the
values to a serving of 100 ml for each contestant, as well as the pricing for 1000 ml (1litre).
Well here we go - be prepared to study it for the coming months, for it simply must be massive!
Nutritional Chart
Ah - but?! What the …
Well - I hid the name of the products, so that the tension may rise a little higher.
And no - no mistake!
These values are exactly those that the manufacturers print on their labels.
I didn’t add anything or left anything out - these are OFFICIAL DATA!
The solution, what hides behind which number can be found at the bottom of this page.
Yes - reality tends to have a different face, when a strong light is shed on marketing rants.
Without knowing what is what it appears that product 1 and 5 do actually have some beneficiary and healthy ingredients - and they are as well reasonable in price.
2,3 and 4 however don’t seem to have any beneficiary ingredients at all.
So what’s the deal here?
Since at least two of the wonder juices are presented here - what’s with all the promises of health and good things in them? Where are they for crying out loud?
The European counterpart of the US FDA sheds some light on what’s really going on.
They analyzed over 20 different Noni juices* and found that in average they contain about 80% simple water - and that the rest of whatever healthy ingredients
there might be is too miniscule to be measured - hence it is also impossible for them to have any impact on anyone’s health - for better or worse.
*remember: Noni was invented and brought to market by the same group of people, that (now spread over 3 companies) are now marketing XanGo, Mona Vie, Fruta Vida. Needless to say, that they are unlikely to all over sudden change their success recipes…
I quote a former Mona Vie distributor:
"I used to be a top distributor with Monavie with over 100 distributors in my downline
in only 2 months time! …
My sign up ratio was low and so was the conversion ratio. Not worth my time.
I worked my butt of and made peanuts and I am a marketing expert!
Their product is watered down and a total joke.
In fact I had a lab check it out and we found it contains only about 5% Açai juice
with the main ingredient being water!
Açai juice should be thick and concentrated not thin like Apple Juice.
Not only is the product cheap the label is as well and the price is outrageous!
All these claimes coming in are fabricated lies of distributors hoping to make $$.
If all the naive keep buying on brainwashed autopilot enthusiasm
the co will be around for awhile. Use your head not your emotion."
Now - it alone might just be the scorn of a disappointed Juice peddler.
But it coincides too well with the findings of the European Food Commission, which has to guard food products for the 550 million people of Europe - and
they surely can be taken as serious as the US FDA, who by the way did send out warning letters to numerous distributors to curb their exaggerated claims.
And when it comes down to it - let’s look even closer.
So - we have 80% water and 16% sugar in Mona Vie - that leaves a whopping 4 % for 19 different fruits - or the incredible wealth of 0.21% for the star of the show - the Açai Berry.
Well ? Well ? Well ?
This result is not weird science - but simply made available through research that is there for everyone to find.
It explains in the simplest of terms, why you don’t find the promised ingredients. The products are watered down so much, that you can’t possibly find anything left that’s really healthy!! And that’s not all - these products have significantly higher sugar content
then a regular Coke Classic - and every child knows that Coke is not a health drink!
Draw your own conclusion on these facts - and please, don’t kid yourself. If there actually were significant amounts of Vitamins, Minerals, and other Nutrients that they so glowingly endorse - they definitely would have them appear on their bottle labels.
Mona Vie even does not shy away to print absolutely negligible amounts of Iron and Vitamin C. 2% of the daily requirements! You would need to ingest almost two bottles, to reach your daily needs….
But all you see there is a void…
As promised - here is the solution on what juice hides behind what number!
1. Minute Maide 100% squeezed Orange Juice
2. Coca Cola Classic
3. Mona Vie
4. Fruita Vida
5. Açai Pure
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Posted Friday March 3, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida IV
Astonishing enough - although the realty is there - out in the open - neither the potential buyer, nor the distributor don’t bother to simply take a look at the label, that shows without a shadow of a doubt what’s in the miracle juice.
I wrote an eMail to MonaVie, describing my concern about the sugar content, that is so much higher then the most popular soft drink - Coca Cola.
And I got an immediate response:
"Thank you for your e-mail.
We look forward to helping you and appreciate your business.
We will respond to your request in a timely manner.
Sincerely,MonaVie Customer Care"
Well - that was weeks ago - and I gather that timely manner means in this case probably indefinitely.
Of course - answering this would put them on a really slippery slope…
OK - now that we have established - that no one really cares - let’s take a look at what the fruit people care about!
Uh - and we find tons of stuff - that they believe in. Medical studies to be just one of it. Not that they read them, because that would mean, that they could no longer use them to support their cause.
But hey - we won’t sweat the small stuff, won’t we.
As a matter of fact - there’s no evidence at all for their claims - despite them re-iterating those over and over again. Nothing written, nothing published, simply nothing.
There is neither a medical study on Noni, Xango, Mona Vie, Fruta Vida, nor a clinical Trial.
And that’s a fact.
How come?
Well for one - let’s stick for argument’s sake to Mona Vie - there is no evidence of any study dealing with Mona Vie.
OK - it’s relatively new - on the market since January 2005 - so it might have been overlooked. But the same holds true for Noni, XanGo and Fruita Vida.
No studies at all.
So what are the studies they reference to?
In Mona Vie’s Case it’s a test tube experiment - a precursor to an actual study, where different concentrations of an Açai Berry concentrate are applied directly onto cells - in this case leukemia cells. This showed encouraging results.
So why isn’t it legit to use that study?
For a variety of reasons:
* a medical study by definition includes humans and their reaction as their subject - a test tube test gives no indication on actual human reactions. They are performed to figure out, whether real research is warranted - and often times - even if these preliminary tests do show potential - they don’t hold up in following studies.
* Another point is that we would have to compare the oral ingestion of a (in MonaVie’s case) highly diluted fluid to the direct application of a concentrated solution to diseased cells.
To make a comparison: If using cough syrup - you wouldn’t rub it onto your chest and expect results - you would ingest it.
Or - to make it even more trivial and powerful - the fact that Firestone has tire compounds, that can go 300 mp/h does not mean that your Ford Pinto with Firestone tires can do that, too.
* the last point, that I’m pointing out in this regard is the fact that MonaVie e.g. does not equal the ingredients of the Açai Berry. Just following the Manufacturer’s description - we learn that it is only one of 19 fruits. So can we even think of using a test tube study to determine whether MonaVie or Fruta Vida are healthy or not?
No - especially since we don’t have an idea, on how all these different fruits do actually work together as a concoction.
Are there contra indications?
Do individual ingredients cancel each other out?
Could some combinations of some ingredients even be harmful?
None of these questions is being addressed by "the science behind MonaVie" - and these are question that need to be asked before anything else is being tackled. But guess what - they aren’t!
* and last - but not least - if we turn this kind of argument around it would for example be a legitimate claim to state that almonds will most likely kill you, for they contain cyanide.
Is that a lie? By no means - for it is a commonly known fact - as well as it is common knowledge, that cyanide’s are some of the most lethal poisons known to man.
But again - is it legitimate to make a claim like that?
Certainly not - since the amounts of this poison are trace amounts, that are so minuscule, that you’d have to ingest considerable amounts of almonds over a prolonged period of time to even get an indication of a health problem.
What’s left is - that these kinds of arguments are practically invalid.
As cyanide in almonds, the healthy ingredients of the individual fruits are so minuscule, that they don’t even find their way onto the official labels! The reason , that all the healthy stuff only exists in sales pitches and links to obscure studies - and not on the label is - that you actually have to prove the statements you make on the nutrition chart….
Actually - when looking at the "science" part you see mambo jumbo. Nothing specific to actually research and/or results - you just receive a very basic elaboration on generic health aspects - Nothing about the "Science behind Mona Vie".
Searching further reveals an impressive looking medical advisory board.
Researching it’s members does not show much - other then again hundreds of links to hundreds of Mona Vie sites. None but one of the advisory board members stands out for anything other then being on the advisory board of Mona Vie.
None of these fine individuals has published anything of significance, that would indicate him/her to be an expert in the field.
I wrote to the one member of the medical board that had a track record in her field as a bariatric doctor and asked:
"I encountered your site, when researching a product called Mona Vie.
According to the companies website - you are a founding member of their Medical Advisory board.
My research on Mona Vie raised more questions, then it provided answers so I am somewhat lost and hope you don’t mind providing some short answers.
1. Are you still on the Advisory Board?
2. According to the label Mona Vie has a 47% higher sugar content than
Coca Cola Classic and the only ingredients known as healthy are miniscule
amounts of Vitamin C and Iron. The website and all subsequent distributor sites however claim ingredients that do not show on the label - e.g. Omega 6 and 9, Proteins, Fibers and a wide variety of Vitamins, Minerals
and Nutrients. Can you explain this discrepancy?
3. Last question: According to distributors Sites Mona Vie is the cure for almost any disease and stops just short from reviving the dead.
What is your opinion on the real potency of Mona Vie?"
So - guess what? Did I receive an answer?
Naaahh!
Whoever claims knowledge of science behind MonaVie step forward and go tell! And it’s not only MonaVie ailing of bloodless facts - here’s a real doctor’s take on Xango:
http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm
Scientific Facts that are so often quoted do in no case relate to the products in question - because they are non-existent. They relate however to parts of the ingredients - may it be the Noni fruit, the mangosteen or the Açai berry.
And if you look closer into that issue there’s not much science either. Again references to other references - and a total lack of cold, hard facts.
The closer you look, the further you are being taken away from the original product - and strictly scientifically speaking - the relevance to the original product is either no longer there - or so watered down in its significance that you’re not even compare apples to oranges any longer but you cross into myths.
"Is attributed", "Is known for", "has long been used for" and similar phrases are becoming accepted stand-ins for real scientific evidence.
And reading forth and forth a joke comes into mind that deals with the question.
"Why carrots are supposed good for your eyesight ?"
The answer to it is so appropriate for the arguments that try to legitimize the benefits for all these products…
The answer in the joke?
"Have you ever seen a rabbit with eyeglasses?"
Depressing as it is - I have to admit that there is no shred of evidence available that supports the validity of both claims and products.
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Posted Saturday March 4, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida V
To recap the "science" behind all these fruit miracles - there is none!
No scientific study on any of the fruit mixtures as such - and no real medical studies on the
ingredients they contain.
What there is are probes, test tube studies and intentions to research.
What there is are experiments and findings on the generic properties of certain antioxidants
or nutrients. There are of course studies on Vitamins, Minerals and Fibers - which are
contained in varying quantities of the fruits in question.
While there is no real doubt - that the Açai Berry or Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears and many other fruits are healthy as a food and have or may have properties, that can support healing
of ailments and so on - it is not really the issue in the research of these Fruit concoctions, which are sold for extraordinary amounts of money!
The issue is - that all these healthy ingredients, that make the fruits so valuable are
not present in the fruit juices that promote them so massively - or to be precise -if they are present - then only in neglectable, not measurable quantities.
The Nutrition Facts provided by the manufacturers prove that without a doubt.
Because if they were - they would most certainly boast with the available quantities
of Vitamins, Fibers, healthy fats, Minerals.
Mona Vie e.g. even puts Vitamin C and Iron on their label, despite they are having
a concentration per serving that would require you to take in 50 servings to cover your
daily need for Vitamin C and Iron.
Xango or Fruta Vida don’t show any benificial
ingredients at all!
And exactly that is the point !
And I couldn’t have found a better closing argument as the words of Dr. Perricone,
whom the manufacturers so massively like to quote with his statement, that the Açai Berry is one of the Top Ten Super Foods of today!
Guess what he puts in the group of the worst foods? FRUIT JUICE!!! Along with the remark to skip them and eat the fruit instead!
But why are people claiming to feel the impact, when ingesting these fruit wonders?
The lift in energy is quite easy to explain - and it were a wonder, if it wouldn’t happen.
The extremely high sugar content of all of these mixtures takes car of that.
Coca Cola always gets blasted with criticism over the amount of sugar it contains - but that actually pales in comparison to our juices! 27 - 47% more sugar is present in the health miracles of Fruita Vida and Mona Vie. Just Xango has just a little less sugar then Coke.
Not that that is a good value for a "Health Drink" anyway.
And all of that is by no means an accident.
But how can one explain those people who sincerely believe that their health improves?
There are a variety of factors contributing to that phenomenon.
Let’s start out with those, who are in dire need of relief - chronically ill people.
They might be in constant pain, or depend on permanent and expensive medication
and they most definitely are constantly and desperately looking for each and everything
that promises help.
And then they encounter these "wonders of nutrition and health benefits" - either
presented by a distributor, who will have no problem to confirm that product"XYZ"
is known to cure or at least lessen the pain of exactly the disease the potential customer is suffering from.
And no - not all distributors are that way - some sincerely believe in the potency of
their product - and they are duly conditioned to do so. And - a certain naivety has to come in play here - they can’t perceive, that they themselves are being used and conditioned to believe even the most outlandish claims.
Why is that?
To understand that - you have to look into the basics and characteristics almost all Multi Level Marketing Systems adhere to. (I abbreviate that in the following descriptions with the widely used acronym MLM)
Other then in conventional Marketing and Distribution the demand on a distributor is vastly different.
Only on the surface it is about the product - regardless what that might be.
Beneath the surface and in the day to day operation of the MLM System and
it’s distributors it is about recruiting people as distributors - for that is the only
way to make money.
I will take a closer look on the MLM business model in an upcoming post - for now I concentrate on trying to explain how people are sucked into the system and how even normally soundminded people are being manipulated.
All MLM operations have one thing in common.
At least monthly or biweekly, usually weekly meetings of regional distributors, where as many people gather as the organization can muster.
And what a party is being held - reminding you of a lively church or happy family meetings. A lot of cheering - success stories are being told - tales of how much money is and can be made, the product is being hyped - people stand up and give their testimonial (by the way - it is a very common practice to find some of those who give testimonials traveling from meeting to meeting
to give them in whatever form they are needed…)
And all of that - the atmosphere loaded with confidence, promises of a better future
and health creates a synergy effect, that is hard to resist - especially, when some of those around you are friends and neighbors, that you know and trust.
And there comes to play something that the MLM marketers calculate and bank on - the power of suggestion.
All these people - and many friends they must be right - and all the good mood and so on and so on.
These events and procedure do not by accident resemble the way cult work and sort of brainwash their followers. People are getting conditioned, made immune against criticism - for they have witnessed people walk - who were in the wheelchair, or could move, where they couldn’t before!
How powerful and suggestive is that?
They don’t know that there are professionals testimonial providers under them, they don’t realize, that the suggestive power of all of that makes them even believe that they feel better themselves. They feel the energy boost - the short lived it is - from taking a sip of the miracle fruit juice - so it all must be true.
And they take this energy - that they have been empowered with by those meeting
and bring it in into their conversations with potential prospects - and if you believe
in a thing and use it yourself it’s much easier to convince someone, as if you’re
just selling something.
So are these convinced distributors to blame? No - they are as much being deceived on so many levels as they potential prospects.
It is the system and it’s makers, that without scruple and with the full knowledge
on the reality of the product exploit the people under them.
And that is it! A combination of sugar hype, mass suggestion, mass enthusiasm, paired with false and real testimonials and the prospect of huge amounts of money coming your way along with a better health - who’s to blame, if he falls for it??
Anyone can do research on these issues - the internet provides plenty of resources on the topic of mass suggestion and manipulation…
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida VI
Before I go into details, why I believe that all these fruit Juice MLM schemes are
not an honest business, I’d like to take some time to look at the business model itself.
Even before I intensified my research to come to understandable conclusions warning bells were ringing off the hook, when I heard of the system.
Why would I pay anyone to sell his product? The average amount members of those systems shell out each and every month vary between $ 120.00 and $ 280.00.
Each month!
But that’s only the cost on the surface…
Beneath that you soon find out that distributors
have to buy expensive promo material
(Fancy folders, containing a brochure, DVD, Video CD etc. for 10 bucks a pop) to promote
the product.
They are urged to buy literature on how to succeed, encouraged to visit quite expensive training sessions, and last but not least to sign themselves and the people in their downline up for Automatic Shipping, so that they will receive their products automatically, regardless, whether they need it or not.
The next point that triggered red flags was the fact that the whole thing actually isn’t about selling the product at all! It’s sole purpose is to recruit new distributors and create a downline. (which is the term for all the people, that you’ve recruited).
That however were only my initial thoughts - and they alone would stop me cold, regardless what product were to be shown to me.
So why are even experienced business oriented people falling for it?
Because they are being approached by people they know and trust - which is one of the most devious things of the system.
So what exactly is a MLM system and how does it operate?
First there is the inventor, manufacturer or whoever comes up with an idea.
Now - that certainly is nothing unusual at all - and that’s true.
But what if you have a product that wouldn’t stand a chance at let’s say WalMart or your department store?
For whatever reason - may it be the price, the quality or the reliability you would have to look for other venues.
One of which is Multi Level Marketing.
As the name indicated - it works on different levels - many of them.
Basic concept is to find three or four people, that not only buy the product, but which are being sent out to find three or four people themselves.
Along with it however - each one is obligated to purchase a certain amount of product
each month.And of course that’s where the profit lies for the main distributor.
Each member who sells the product will receive a certain percentage of everything sold underneath him - in his down-line.
In newer system like MonaVie there are additional income opportunities compared to older systems - by adding a group system called the matrix.
Once your downline has a certain level you are eligible for additional benefits.
I tried to make more sense out of it - or would like to dive deeper into the payment structure they did set up - but frankly it’s somewhat between confusing and amusing.
Impressive color charts, ranks named after jewels - all somewhat familiar from MLM of the past all make a nice picture - but the structure has so many dependencies that it is easy to loose track.
So I’m not going to criticize the payment system for all but one point, that would
make me not join.
As a distributor you depend of the sales that are being made in your downline -
or better on the amount of new recruits.
One should assume, that your total is the basis for what you are being paid for.
The payment system however magically lets a part of that - at least what your bonuses,
points and advancement in rank is concerned - disappear.
They just allow the result of your "lesser" Distribution leg count for your advancement
(additionally only if some other conditions are met) That does not appear to be fair - and looks to me more like exploitation then just accounting.
But that’s just me.
But you can look for yourself and download the Payment Plan(PDF)
Now is that all a bad business model by definition?
Probably not - one of the american product icons started out as MLM.
Tupperware - one of the pioneers of MLM is still around and still using it - though somewhat different from current models.
So why does one system work and others don’t?
Every MLM system is based on several premises:
1. A rock solid product
2. little to no competition, change in customer needs, innovations, that may make your product obsolete
3. practically no market saturation - an unlimited chain of potential customers - assuming that EVERYONE is needing it
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida VII
Now let’s check the validity of these premises in more detail:
1: Rock Solid Product
2: No Competition
3: No Market Saturation
Comparing e.g. Tupperware with our juicy schemes brings several things to the forefront.
For one - the time period, when the product is being introduced.
Tupperware is a product of the 50’s. Fridges just became a standard household item and the need to properly store foods in it was becoming apparent. The product was innovative and responded to a widespread need - and had an inherently huge market potential especially since there was no competition around to challenge it. Additionally the product didn’t make outlandish claims, but those, that were
logical and could be tested by the user right away - so there were no doubts about usability at all. And since the product wears out eventually - there is a need for refill’s.
Another factor that heavily contributes to Tupperware’s success is the customer mentality
of the 50’s and 60’s.
Brand Loyalty was a really meaningful term then and users, once hooked on one brand rarely switched - which held true for almost any product, may it be cars, clothing, perfumes - or little plastic containers.
Looking at our fruit juices however the situation is completely different. Not only are they not innovative, the market prospect is considerably more narrow, for not everyone needs the product, the product benefits are not proven or established and furthermore there is competition on every possible level.
Where does that leave us looking at the situation?
Well - to begin with - we can’t state that we are dealing with a rock solid product. It were to be different if we had medical studies or clinical trials, that would support the health benefit claims. And again - I’m not talking about the benefits of an individual ingredient, but of the product itself. Our Fruit guru’s have nothing to show on that account.
And for that matter on the product nutrition label.
Is there a need for a product like Noni, Xango, Mona Vie or Fruta Vida?
If it were proven that they could deliver what they promise - most definitely.
But we already know, that they can’t prove even only one of their claims. They can even show, that the healthy ingredients they claim to be the backbone of their product is even in their concoction!!! (See label)
We know for sure, that testimonials are being fabricated - solid and reputable products do not need such unethical endorsements.
And what about the competition? Other then Tupperware in the 50’s - these Fruit Juices face competition on every possible level.
From Fruit Juices that actually contain more then trace amounts of Vitamins and Minerals, to the actual fruits, from food supplements to actual medication and if that were not to be enough - they have to compete most of all against each other! And they are at it big time!
Despite having a basically identical origin (their company founders and presidents all derive from the same company!) they claim their competition to be useless, not as potent as..,
even scams - which actually has some humor to it. Funny also that XanGo and MonaVie stem from the same maker and fight themselves as if there were no tomorrow.
Bottomline on that issue is that the second assumption is at best wishful thinking…
Last point is the market saturation.
I usually shy away from strong words - but to believe that there is no such thing is just plain and simply stupid. Any 6th grader would know AND comprehend, that regardless what it is - there can not be unlimited growth.
But the belief that there is unlimited growth is the cornerstone of every MLM! (Or Pyramid Scheme?).
Each of the 3 assumptions listed at the top are essential for the MLM system to function the way, people are made to believe it works.
It is pretty obvious that, when an ingredient is applied, that seems so suspiciously absent in these MLM Schemes, the house of cards is tumbling down. This ingredient is called common sense.
None of our fruit juice concoctions holds water.
Product features, that can’t be proven, Competition all over the place and a market that is so narrow, that it will dry out within 2-3 years.
In the following you will find an excellent article about MLM, that I re-print with the author’s permission, and that also contains a lot of interesting Links to read up on a variety of issues regarding MLM.
The approach is a broad one - not aiming at a specific product or scheme - but paints the
picture of the MLM marketplace very accurately.
Dean Van Druff
What’s Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?
a.k.a. "Networking" Companies
Bad Image or Bad Reality?
"Let me tell you about an incredible ground-level business opportunity," and you are invited to a house or to lunch for "a discussion." Funny enough, you feel sick in your gut that there is some hidden agenda or deception. "Probably a multi-level marketing (MLM) organization," you think. Suppose it is? Should you trust your instincts? Is there anything wrong with MLM?
This article will analyze four problem areas with MLM. Specifically, it will focus on problems of I) Market Saturation, II) Pyramid Structure, III) Morality and Ethics, and IV) Relationship Issues associated with MLMs. Thus, you can properly assess your "instincts."
I. Market Saturation: An Inherent Problem
Back to the Basics
A tutorial on market saturation hardly seems necessary in most business discussions, but with MLM, unfortunately, it is. Common sense seems to get suspended when considering if MLMs are viable, even theoretically, as a profitable means of distribution for all parties involved. This suspension is created by a heightened expectation of "easy money," but more on that later.
New, Innovative?
MLM can no longer claim to be new and, thus, exempt from the normal rules of the market and the way goods and services are sold. They have been tried and, for the most part, have failed. Some have been miserable failures in spite of offering excellent products.
Marketing innovations are not rare in the modern world, as evidenced by the success of Wal-Mart, which found a more efficient and profitable way to distribute goods and services than the status quo, providing lasting value to stockholders, employees, distributors, and consumers. But this is not the case with any MLM to date, and after 25 years of failed attempts, it is time to point out the reasons why.
Don’t Some People Make Money in MLM?
First, we will analyze the "driving mechanism" of MLMs. We will detail how they are intrinsically unstable, guaranteed by design to oversaturate the market with no one noticing. We will look at why MLMs can never equalize into profitability the way companies in the real world can, so that the result will be that the organization as a whole cannot, even in theory, be profitable. When this inevitable destiny occurs, the only money to be made is not from the product or service but from the losses of people lower down in the organization.
Thus the MLM organization becomes exploitative, and many high-level MLM promoters have been shut down, the "executives" incarcerated, for selling the fraud of impossible success to others. Other, larger MLMs have survived by hiring large batteries of attorneys to ward off federal prosecutors, even bragging about the funds they have in reserve for this purpose.
The unfortunate "distributor" at the bottom is the loser, and once this becomes apparent beyond all the slick videotapes and motivational pep-talks, good people start to get a bad taste in their mouths about the whole situation.
So, yes, money can be made with MLM. The question is whether the money being made is legitimate or "made" via a sophisticated con scheme. And if MLM is "doomed by design" to fail, then the answer is, unfortunately, the latter.
But how exactly does this happen, and must it always?
Doomed by Design?
The first question is this: Is any company choosing this marketing strategy destined to fail, to degenerate into an exploitative venture, regardless of how good the product is?
To see this clearly we must go through an, otherwise, obvious and elementary discussion of how any business must be careful not to overhire, overextend, or oversupply a market.
The Real World
Any business must carefully consider supply and demand. For example, if the ReVo Corporation thinks that it will have a full-fledged fad on their ovoid sunglasses next summer, perhaps they should plan to build and distribute, say, 10M units. This involves gearing up factories, setting up distribution and dealer networks, and carefully managing the inventories at each level so that ReVo will still have credibility with their distributors, retail outlets, and the public the following year.
If it turns out that there is a "run" on ReVo products, and they sell out in mid-June, then they have miscalculated demand and will miss out on profits they could have made. The more serious problem, however, is overestimating the saturation point for the product. If they make 10M units, and sell only 2M units, this may be the end of ReVo as a company.
The all-too-obvious point here is that management of supply and demand, and keen insight into realistic market penetration and saturation are crucial to any business, for any product or service. Mismanagement of this aspect of a business will eclipse good market access, excellent product design, human resource assets, production quality, and so on. Simply stated, a failure to "hit the Target" of supply and demand can ruin a company if the market is oversaturated.
Market Dynamics and the End of the Cold War
Interestingly, the issue of supply and demand is what brought the USSR to its knees. By design, the Soviet government tried to macro-manage supply, where bureaucrats would decide how many potatoes were needed, how much toilet paper, etc. Assuming these bureaucrats did the best they could, unfortunately their efforts to deliberately manipulate the control "knob" of supply and demand was not good enough. Notwithstanding their good intentions, they were usually wrong, which created huge shortages and surpluses, and led to a massive economic collapse.
Seeing the disastrous end of market naiveté in Russia should help clarify the fundamental problem with the MLM approach. In the real world, the profit of a company is directly related to the skill and prescience of the "hand" on the "supply knob," so to speak. In the USSR, that "hand" could not react fast or accurately enough to market realities through the best efforts of the bureaucrats.
With MLMs, the situation is much worse. Nobody is home. Even the Soviets had someone thinking about how much was enough! If the bureaucrat in Russia was having a hard time trying to play Adam Smith’s "invisible hand" in setting the supply level in the Soviet Union, then an MLM "executive" is in a truly unfortunate position. Not only is there no one assigned to make the decision of how much is enough, the MLM is set up by design to blindly go past the saturation point and keep on going. It will grow till it collapses under its own weight, without even a bureaucrat noticing.
MLM is like a train with no brakes and no engineer headed full-throttle towards a terminal.
"Everyone Will Want to Buy This Product!"
All products and services have partial market penetration. For example, only so many people wish to use a discount broker, as evidenced by the very successful but only partial market penetration of Charles Schwab. Not everyone wishes to join a particular discount club, or buy gold, or drink filtered water, or wear a particular style of shoe, or use any product or service. No one in the real world of business would seriously consider the thin arguments of the MLMers when they flippantly mention the infinite market need for their product or services.
The Demand Problem: Of Widgets and MLMs
Imagine a neat new product called a Widget that will sell for $100 (a fixed price, to keep it simple). Now, while everyone could use a Widget, not everyone will. Some will be afraid of anything new. Some will be loyal to existing brands. Some will want to buy an inferior product for less money. Some will want a more expensive product for prestige, regardless of quality. The reasons go on and on, and the fact is that only "X" Widgets will sell at $100.
The question for would-be marketeers is… what is "X," and how can it be predicted to maximize profits? The fact that "X" is hard to pin down does not mean that it does not exist, and every Widget built beyond "X" will end up producing a problem for the organization. The market only wants "X" Widgets at $100. What are you going to do with your extra inventory of Widgets beyond "X" that no one wants, and the sales people you hired to sell them?
No one can perfectly predict "X," and the situation is not nearly as simple as considered here, but the objective for marketeers is to forecast "X" as closely as possible in order to provide lasting value to all parties involved: to avoid missed opportunities as well as waste, loss, or failure.
The MLM Forecasting Approach: Ignoring the Target
Who has an eye on "X," the point of market saturation at a given price, in an MLM? Well, the funny thing, or perhaps the tragic thing, is that "X" will be reached and exceeded without anyone noticing or caring.
Let’s just suppose that "X" has been reached today in a particular MLM; the number of possible units sold at this price has just been exceeded, and you happen to be a starry-eyed prospect sitting in an MLM meeting listening to the pitch. Now consider: Does anyone in this company know about "X"? Does anyone care? Is the issue being suppressed on purpose for some other motive? Since we are supposing that the market saturation number "X" has been reached, everyone joining the MLM from now on is buying into a false hope. But that is not what the speaker will be saying. He will be telling you, "Now is the time to join. Get in on the ‘ground floor’." But it is all a lie, even though the speaker may not know it. The total available market "X" has been reached and nobody noticed. All the distributors will lose from here on out. Could this be you? How could you possibly know at what point you will become the liar in an MLM?
Pop or Drop
Perhaps a better paradigm than the runaway train analogy offered earlier of how MLMs perform over time is this: a helium balloon let loose in an empty room with a spiked ceiling, where product quality is analogous to the amount of helium. The better the product, the faster the balloon will rise, accelerating unhindered, towards disaster. The other option would be the case of a lousy product, in which case the balloon will sink of its own accord, never getting off the ground. To be sure, equilibrium is not in the cards, except perhaps as an accident, and then only temporarily. MLMs are intrinsically unstable. For any company that chooses an MLM approach, it’s pop or drop.
MLMs vs. the Real World
The basic question that needs to be asked is this: If this product or service is so great, then why isn’t it being sold through the customary marketing system that has served human society for thousands of years? Why does it need to resort to a "special marketing" scheme like an MLM? Why does everyone need to be so inexperienced at marketing this! Is the product just a thin cover for what is really a pyramid scheme of exploiting others? But more on that later.
From Contracted, Protected Distribution… to Mayhem
Imagine that Wendy’s became suddenly possessed by the idea that "everyone needs to eat," and opened four Wendy’s franchises on the four corners of an intersection in your neighborhood. Who would benefit from this folly? The consumer? Certainly not the franchises; they would all lose. Wendy’s corporate? Perhaps temporarily, by speculative inventory sales while the unfortunate franchises were under the delusion that they could all make money. But in the end, the negative image of four outlets dying a slow death would likely offset the temporary inventory sales bubble. Even the most unreflective of the hapless franchisees would think twice about doing business in such a manner again. This is why real-world distributorships and franchises are contractually protected by territory and/or market.
Again, the simple fact is that even the most successful products will have partial market penetration. The same is true for services. Demand and "market share" are finite, and to overestimate either is catastrophic.
So why are MLM promoters obscuring this? Who is in control of the supply "knob," carefully and skillfully managing the size of the distribution channels, number of salespeople, inventory, etc., to insure the success of all involved in the business? The truth is chilling: nobody.
Imagine trying to write a computer model of how MLMs work, and you will see this point most vividly. An MLM could never work, even in theory. Think about it.
The People Machine
Chernobyl had a control system that failed. MLMs have no control mechanisms at all.
Where is the "switch" that can be flipped in an MLM when enough sales people are hired? In a normal company a manager says, "We have enough, let’s stop hiring people at this point." But in an MLM, there is no way to do this. An MLM is a human "churning" machine with no "off button." Out of control by design, its gears will grind up the money, time, credibility, and entrepreneurial energy of well-meaning people who joined merely to supplement their income. Better to just steer clear of this monster to begin with.
There is simply no way to avoid the built-in failure mechanism of MLMs. If a company chooses to market this way, it will eventually "hire" (with no base pay and charging to join) far too many people.
Thus, the only "control system" will be the inevitable losses and subsequent bad image the MLM company will gain after it does what it was designed to do: fail. And sooner or later we have got to stop blaming this particular MLM company or that, and admit that the MLM technique itself is fundamentally flawed.
II. Pyramid Structure: An Organizational Problem
The Un-Pyramid
For most MLMs, the product is really a mere diversion from the real profit-making dynamic. To anyone familiar with MLMs, the previous discussion (which focused so much on the fact that MLMs are "doomed by design" to reach market saturation and thus put the people who are legitimately trying to sell the product into a difficult situation) may seem to miss the point. The product or service may well be good, and it might oversaturate at some point, but let’s get serious. The product is not the incentive to join an MLM. Otherwise people might have shown an interest in selling this particular product or service before in the real world. The product is the excuse to attempt to legitimate the real money-making engine. It’s "the cover."
Intuitively, we all know what is really going on with MLMs. Just don’t use the word "pyramid"!
"You see, if you can convince ten people that everyone needs this product or service, even though they aren’t buying similar products available in the market, and they can convince ten people, and so on, that’s how you make the real money. And as long as you sell to a few people along the way, it is all legal." Maybe…
But the way to make money in all this is clearly not by only selling product, otherwise you might have shown an interest in it before, through conventional market opportunities. No, the "hook" is selling others on selling others on "the dream."
Math and Common Sense
MLMs work by geometric expansion, where you get ten to sponsor ten to sponsor ten, and so on. This is usually shown as an expanding matrix (just don’t say "pyramid"!) with corresponding kick-backs at various levels.
The problem here is one of common sense. At a mere three levels deep this would be 1,000 people. There goes the neighborhood! At six levels deep, that would be 1,000,000 people believing they can make money selling. But to whom? There goes the city! And the MLM is just getting its steam going. Think of all the meetings! Think of all the "dreams" being sold! Think of the false hopes being generated. Think of the money being lost.
It Will Fail??? It Cannot Fail???
Nothing irritates a die-hard MLMer more than the preceding argument. If you point out the absurdity, for example, that if "the pitch" at an Amway meeting were even moderately accurate, in something like 18 months Amway would be larger than the GNP of the entire United States, then listen closely for a major gear-shift: "Well, that is absurd, of course. Not everyone will succeed, and so the market will never saturate."
Well, which is it? Are we recruiting "winners" to build a real business, or planning by design to profit off of "losers" who buy into our "confidence"?
During "the pitch," anyone can make it work. "It’s the opportunity of a lifetime." "Just look at the math!" But mention the inevitable saturation and the losses this is going to cause for everyone, and then you’ll hear, "Of course it would never really work like that." "Most will fail," you will be told, "but not you, Mr. Recruit. You are a winner. I can just see it in your eyes."
If you are a starry-eyed recruit, it will grow as presented. If you are a logical skeptic, then of course it would never really work like that.
But the dialog usually never even gets to this. The fact that MLM is in a mad dash to oversupply is largely chided as mere "stinkin’ thinkin’." Expert MLMers know how to quickly deflect this issue with parable, joke, personal testimony, or some other sleight of mind.
New Solution: A Retarded MLM
Some modern incarnations of MLMs attempt to address this particular problem by limiting the number of people you can sponsor, say, to four. But the same geometric expansion problems exist; the failure mechanism has just been slowed down a bit. And now there is the added problem of even more unnecessary layers in the organization.
The claim that an MLM is merely a "common man" implementation of a normal real-world distribution channel becomes even more absurd in this case. Imagine buying a product or service in the real world and having to pay overrides and royalties to five or ten unneeded and uninvolved "distributor" layers. Would this be efficient? What value do these layers of "distributors" provide to the consumer? Is this rational? Would such a company exist long in a competitive environment?
Confidence Men and the Shadow Pyramid
The age-old technique of "con men" is to create "confidence" in some otherwise dumb idea by diversion of thought, bait, or force of personality. The victim gets confidence in a bogus plan, and, in exchange, the con man gets your money. MLMers are very high on confidence.
Since the brain inevitably intrudes itself into the delusion that an MLM could ever work, spirits drop and attitudes go sour. But this depressive state can itself be exploited. As doubts grow when the MLM does not do what recruits were first "con"fidenced to expect, then a further profit can be made keeping the confidence going against all common sense.
Thus, a parallel or "shadow" pyramid of motivational tapes, seminars, and videos emerges. These are a "must for success," and recruits are strong-armed into attending, buying, buying, and buying all the more. This motivational "shadow pyramid" further exploits the flagging recruits as they spiral inexorably into oversaturation and failure. The more they fail, the more "help" they need from those who are "successful" above them.
So, MLMs profit by conning recruits up-front with a "distributorship fee," and then make further illicit money by "confidencing" these hapless victims as they fail via the "sale" of collateral material.
Special MLM "Job" Offer: A Losing Proposition
Would a rational person, abreast of the facts, go to work selling any product or service if he or she knew that there was an open agenda to overhire sales reps for the same products in the prospective territory?
What do you think? Is this a good "opportunity" or a recipe for collective disaster?
So, as the saying goes, "Get in early!" This is a rationalization on the level of "getting in early" on the L.A. looting riots. If profit from the sale of products is fundamentally set up to fail, then the only money to be had is to "loot" others by conning them while you have the chance. Don’t miss the "opportunity," indeed!
Where is the money coming from for those at the top? From the sucker at the bottom… as in every pyramid scheme. The product could be, and lately has been, anything.
The important thing is to exploit people while the exploiting is good, if you want to make quick money at MLM.
III. Morality and Ethics: A Problem of Greed
Moral Riddle: What is Ever Present but Universally Condemned?
While issues of morality and ethics can be tricky to discuss, materialism and greed are universally condemned by every major religion, and even by most of the irreligious. This does not mean people are not materialistic or greedy; in fact, the common ethical call to not be so is strong evidence that we are.
For most people, this means if we are going to be materialistic or greedy, we would rather not be obvious about it. Thus, Madison Avenue has subtle, highly polished ways of appealing to these vices without being heavy handed. We don’t mind so much… as long as it is "veiled." This hypocrisy, while sad, is the status quo. So, Madison Avenue is trying to be ever more subtle in appearing not to be manipulating our immoral "bent" towards greed and materialism.
A Blatant Appeal to Materialism and Greed
Not so with the MLM crowd. Pick up any brochure or videotape for an MLM and you are more than likely to see a cheesy, obvious, and blatant appeal to greed and materialism. This is offensive to everyone, even die-hard materialists. Typical is an appeal to "the American dream." Usually there will be a mood shot of a large new home, a luxury car, a boat, perhaps a beautiful couple boarding a Lear jet, and so on.
While this need not necessarily be part of the MLM approach, it usually is.
Such a transparent appeal should make people suspicious. "Why the bait?" "Are they trying to ‘get my juices going’ so that my brain turns off?" "Couldn’t they show people doing more wholesome things with the money they make?" "If this is really a legitimate opportunity, why not focus on the market, product, or service instead of people reveling in lavish materialism?"
But we have reason enough to know, having read this far, why the distraction is needed. Unbridled greed suspends good judgment. When the eyes gloss over in a materialistic glaze, common sense is a stranger.
Besides being cheesy and offensive to our sensibilities, this is not a big deal for participants, right? But consider that all companies must have control over the way they are presented to the public. Thus, an MLM has the right and obligation to dictate what material is used. Otherwise any agent could say whatever he or she liked about the nature of the company, causing obvious problems. Again, it would take too much time to audit and approve each individual’s idea for a presentation where the goal is mass marketing. Using "boilerplate" presentations affords the added benefit of consistency. This is basic "information quality control."
The net effect is that the MLM rep is "stuck" with the company-approved video, brochure, and presentation outline.
"Not Me, I Would Never Stoop That Low!"
In 1991, some distributors in the MLM FUND AMERICA began to produce their own, improved recruitment material. They were summarily fired, which did not please them since many of them were founding members who had "gotten in early."
Later the same year, by the way, the founder of FUND AMERICA was arrested for having generated some 90% of revenues selling "distributorships" versus product… making it clear that this particular MLM was little more than a pyramid scheme.
Job Opening: Salesperson of Sin!
Do you want to be involved in the blatant promotion of values contrary to your belief system?
In most MLMs you will have no choice. You are going to have to sit through meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting. You are going to be "motivated" to coerce your friends and family to hear "the pitch." This is the way the "dream" is planted and fertilized. Get used to it.
If you are a materialist, you only have to get over the cheekiness of the presentation. But if you do not wish to promote such ideas, if you consider them sinful, then this puts you at the focal point of a moral dilemma. Do you wish to be a salesperson for materialism?
Lack of Information Quality Control: An MLM Incentive?
On the flip-side of the issue of being stuck with the recruitment "pitch" is the fact that the MLM organization is otherwise loose, to say the least. This is part of the appeal to many, to "be your own boss."
But in practice this leads to loony product claims, many of which are deceptive and some of which can be positively dangerous.
Hyperbole is a given in an MLM. When inexperienced salespeople are turned loose to sell on full commission without supervision or accountability, what else could happen?
Since MLM organizations are notoriously flash-in-the-pan, one has to wonder why any new company would choose this flawed marketing technique. Perhaps one of the things to consider is that the MLM organization can effectively skirt the Federal Trade Commission by using word-of-mouth testimonials, supposed "studies" done by scientists, fabricated endorsements, rumors and other misrepresentations that would never be allowed to see the light of day in the real world of product promotion, shady as it is.
Thus, MLM has evolved into a "niche": it can be used to sell products that could not be sold any other way. An MLM is a way to get undue credibility by exploiting people’s personal friendships and relationships via "networking." This is an intrinsic moral difficulty with MLMs that will be expanded in the last section.
MLM Sales Technique: Rumors, Slander, Defamation
Hyperbole is not limited merely to product claims, however. When MLMers turn to their competitors it can get ugly indeed. Some of the most outlandish rumors of modern history can be traced to MLMs. In recent years, for example, the international rumor that the president of a major real-world corporation was a Satanist, and that the logo of his company contained occult symbols, turned out to have a commercial motive and was traced to specific Amway distributors. These were successfully sued in 1991, but the rumor persists. And how much else of the MLM negative "sales pitch" is fabrication or outright lie? Not all the negative selling claims are as scandalous or widespread as the previous example, but the MLM culture produces so much of this stuff it would be hard to prosecute it all.
Again, what else could be expected from inexperienced salespeople thrown into an oversaturated sales market on full commission and no accountability?
Negative selling is not unique to MLMs, but MLMs have a legacy of fostering a culture of credulity, of bizarre "gossip-as-fact." After all, this is a friend telling me this!
Telling lies about people or groups is slander. Systemic and malicious slander is illegal in most civilized countries. Slander is a sin listed next to murder and adultery in Biblical texts. But how will you know when you become the slanderer by repeating what you heard in an MLM meeting?
Great Men?
Another morally questionable practice that is not intrinsic to MLMs, but seems axiomatic, is the pent-up idolatry of the leaders.
In FUND AMERICA, the "approved materials" showed what a great man the founder was, depicted the depth of his management experience, showed him in mood shots, etc. It is easy to swoon in admiration of such a powerful, visionary man, dedicated to bringing this wonderful opportunity to common Americans like us.
It turned out he was a criminal fugitive from Australia, where he had been run out of town for doing the same.
But you would never guess it from the company material. A great man.
There are more than a few MLM "executives" like this who will pop up tomorrow in the MLM du jour. MLM exploitation can be very profitable and the jail sentences light. Let the MLM "dream" buyer beware.
I have been taken to task for making this point too strongly–and do not wish to imply that all MLM leaders have criminal records–but it does pay to do some research here. Are the idols you are being asked to worship in MLM worthy of respect, or contempt? Have they been prosecuted or sued for exploiting people in the past? Have they done prison time?
Do not expect to hear the full truth in the MLM video.
Pride and the Secret Closet: Vanity and the Way MLMs Grow
"Mr. Prospect, now you aren’t required to buy more than three product units, but why bother joining unless you plan to succeed? Besides, all of our products are 100% money back guaranteed."
"Hmmm… To ask for a refund, then, is to admit defeat. Others appear to be doing O.K. at this. I’m no failure! Perhaps I should go to another motivational seminar or strong-arm and alienate one more friend to join. I wasn’t fooled! I’m no failure!"
So, the "inventory" and "recruitment kits," never viable, collect dust. They become a pile in the back closet or attic, a trophy to pride being unable to admit that greed seized the moment.
Back to the Pyramids: Innovative Marketing or Organized Crime?
It is generally agreed that to mislead people in order to get their money is morally reprehensible. It is labeled "theft" or "fraud," and those who do it should be punished. No one is naive enough to suggest that you can’t make money at it. Crime can pay, at least temporarily.
Pyramid schemes are illegal. They are illegal because they are exploitative and dishonest. They exploit the most vulnerable of people: the desperate, the out-of-work, the ignorant. Those who start and practice such fraud, should, and increasingly are, being punished for their crimes.
But add a product for cover, and call it an MLM, and people are willing to swallow its legality. Is this true? Really? Who says so?
The Feds versus the MLM Gang: The Other Side of the Story
It is a fact that a few large MLMs have survived against the best efforts of law enforcement officials to shut them down, spending millions of dollars to protect, lobby, and insulate themselves. But the same could be said for any organized crime. It is difficult to stop once it becomes so large.
And MLMs look so legitimate to the public, so decent. So many nice people are involved. Surely, it can’t be illegal! The people lower down may even defend the very organization that is robbing them, hoping that they might get their chance to make "the big money" later.
But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Unless it is an MLM, and then it is NOT a pyramid.
The Feds generally see it differently… when the ML (multi-level) aspect begins to eclipse the M (marketing) of products or services.
People can make money in an MLM, undeniably. The moral issue is: Where is the money coming from? Selling product? Then why not sell the same product in the "real world"?
But everyone knows that the real incentive is the pyramid aspect, and the product just the excuse to make it legal, or at least the MLM promoter would like you to believe it is legal.
The Mob and the MLM: A Stretched Analogy?
Talk to a mobster, and he will tell you that he is "merely misunderstood in his benevolent intentions." "We are just trying to ‘build our business.’" "It’s all a conspiracy to make us look bad." "The Feds are out to get us because they are jealous or afraid of our new way of life." "Why, look at all the good we do!" "We are looking more legitimate every day." "Here’s a statement from a famous DA that the Mob is really a good organization and no harm ever comes from it." "We’ve even got a minister to endorse us now!"
Propaganda and MLM Expansion
The MLMers of the new millennium are starting to sound a lot like the gangsters of yesteryear. In an era where management science and the law generally condemn MLM, they’ve "got their own experts," from academia or law, who are "on the payroll." Confidence, remember, is key.
Regardless of all the vehement denials, MLMs are all to some extent pyramid schemes, and pyramid schemes are illegal. Sure, some are "getting away with it," but so did the Mafia for decades. It is hard to stop a juggernaut, especially one that has taken such pains to look legitimate and misunderstood, that is highly organized, and that has so much money from its victims to propagandize, lobby, and defend itself. And so the exploitation goes on.
If these guys show up in your neighborhood, you are either "in" or "out," family or Target, friend or foe. Suspicion rules the day; everyone has an "angle"; greed supplants innocence. The "neighborhood" is turned into a marketplace, and may never recover from the blow.
The ethical questions remain: Are MLMs a morally acceptable way to make money? Are they–and will they continue to be–legitimate?
MLM Proselytizing: Beneath Begging?
If money is needed that badly, why not simply ask friends and family for help rather than taking money from them under false pretenses–and also selling them a bill of goods? By "sponsoring" them, you have not only conned them and profited at their expense, you have made them feel like losers, since they are not able to make a success of the hopeless MLM concept.
Once seen, only the morally blind, or consciously criminal, could continue in such a "business."
But wait, perhaps you could recruit… your mother!
Moral Inventory
By way of review, the prospective MLM initiate has to face and resolve these ethical issues:
1. Do I want to be involved in encouraging people to be more materialistic?
2. Do I want to sell a product that perhaps couldn’t be sold any other way?
3. Do I want to be a part of an enterprise famous for slander, libel, and rumor?
4. Do I want to be a part of a company that may employ criminals as marketing experts?
5. Do I want to make money off my ability to convince people that an unworkable marketing system is viable?
6. Do I want to be known among my friends and family as a person who tried to con people with a thinly veiled pyramid scheme?
If you can answer these questions "yes," training is available… But remember that God is watching, even if you never get "successful" enough for the Feds to notice you.
IV. Relationship Issues: An Experiential Problem
Learning the Hard Way
MLMs grow by exploiting people’s relationships. If you are going to be in an MLM, you swallow hard and accept this as part of "building your business." This is "networking." But to those not "in" the MLM, it seems as if friendship is merely a pretext for phoniness, friendliness is suspected as prospecting, and so on. There is no middle ground here, try as you might.
While this is the most difficult point to make, it is perhaps the most important. Anyone who has any experience with an MLM has strong feelings, either for or against, and this is the problem. Polarization runs deep.
High-pressure Selling — Reserved for Pyramids Only
When it comes to selling product, MLM sales reps are probably no more aggressive or obnoxious than ordinary salespeople. Since most are not salespeople by nature, and it is characteristic that MLMs attract few people with any experience selling this particular product or service, they usually sell through pre-fab "parties" or home "demos." Thus, sales pressure is exerted by situation, if at all.
It should be noted that when selling product, the only distinction from a real-world business is the possibility for deception due to the "looseness" of the MLM and the incentive to exaggerate claims without any accountability. Other than this, selling product in an MLM is fairly similar to selling any product in the real world.
But when it comes to getting you "signed up" as a "distributor," the MLMers get pushy and deceptive beyond the boundaries of polite social norms.
Remember, an MLM is defined by its rewarding people to recruit others in multiple levels.
"Mother, Let Me Tell You About a Fantastic Opportunity…"
Even ex-accountants are willing to practice the crudest of high-pressure selling tactics, at least when it comes to "signing people up." The end justifies the means, when it comes to getting people to come to the "meetings," where the objective is to get a materialism frenzy going at high pitch through a slick speaker or video. The reasons for this "confidence building" should be obvious by now, but here we are considering the relationship cost associated with the "success" of the MLM.
The above title is meant to be absurd. Most people, no matter how jaded, would not foist such a con on their own mothers. Even if people don’t know the specifics of what is wrong with MLMs, intuition often warns us: "Don’t tamper with that relationship." The first marks for recruitment are the gullible, or the "expendable" friends. But successive moral compromise, experience, and desperation… may yet lead to "good old Mom."
Never Admit You Are Wrong
Many have left high-paying jobs to "pursue their dreams" in an MLM. Having been conned so dramatically, they do not easily admit defeat. It seems easier to cling to the bad dream in an increasing cycle of desperation to make the MLM work against all odds. "Losers" at the bottom congregate into support groups, perhaps spinning-off another MLM where they can be "boss."
There is an undeniable camaraderie among MLMers. But for everyone else, "there goes the neighborhood." It is saddening to see people being encouraged against all instinct and common sense to chase after an illusory "pot of gold," but what can be done?
Counting the Cost: The First Church of MLM
Many readers will share the experience of observing MLMs divide families, friends, churches, and civic groups. Lifelong friends are now "prospects." The neighborhood is now "a market." Motives change, suspicions rise, divisions form. The question is begged: "Is it worth it?"
Especially nasty is the church situation. Will the pastor join? If not, he will take a dim view of MLM proselytizing at church functions; animosity will rise, factions will form. You are either "in" or out. If the pastor joins, then those who are not "in" will feel a little uncomfortable in this church.
A church (or any community group) can be easily torpedoed by an MLM.
Trust Your Instincts?
For most people, thankfully, the MLM experience usually ends in very quick financial failure and is then sidelined. Two possible responses are: 1) being embarrassed about participation, or 2) becoming even more intractable when the MLM has failed. You will find the latter chasing after the latest "get rich quick" scheme with similar results. "If we could have just sponsored so and so–they have so many friends–we would have made it."
Thus, there is reason for the "bad taste" most people have for MLMs. By instinct if not experience or insight, we wince at the thought of what we know will follow in the wake of an MLM. Relationships strained, factions formed, deception, manipulation, greed, loss, a closet full of videotapes, brochures, and useless inventory that "everybody wants."
Disease Alert: Beware of MLM Blindness
Apparently, it is difficult for gung-ho MLMers to see how they look from the outside. They can watch lifelong friendships unravel, churches and civic groups poisoned, the avoidance of friends and family, etc., and never see that MLM was the cause.
If you try to point this pathology out, you are treated as if you have attacked the very gospel! Perhaps for some, the MLM approach is a new gospel?
They will claim to have made "new friends," most of which are MLMers or new acquaintances who could be considered "future prospects." The shallowness of these "new friends," the stilted conversations among the "old friends," and the embarrassment, in general, for what seems clear to everyone but the MLMer go unnoticed. Callousness sets in; standards are lowered.
Of course, it could be pointed out that this might have happened anyway. Perhaps the die-hard MLMers would have ruined their friendships anyway in some other non-MLM business failure. Is the MLM really the cause, or just the vehicle?
Business failure of any type is traumatic on the relationships involved, but in most small businesses there is at least the chance of success. And this is never the case in an MLM, unless "success" can be defined as profiting off of the failures of others.
Non-MLM real-world businesses that offer products of interest to friends, family, etc., such as insurance agents and small retail shop owners, seem to be more circumspect in dealing with personal relationships in all but a few rare (and grievous) cases. But the MLMer is recognizable by duplicity of friendship overtures, overbearing glad-handing, full-time prospecting, outrageous initial deception, and social callousness. This is no accident, but rather sheer desperation. How could it be otherwise? For the active MLMer is in a hopeless bear trap: with hubris as one steel jaw and oversaturation the other.
And so the MLM relationship "bull" tramples through the relationship "china closet," blindly ruining fragile and valuable things. Some never pull out of this, figuring the coldness they experience in their emotional lives is due to some other cause than their MLM participation.
The Aftermath
One can’t help but wish that the "neighborhood" could be like it once was. But an MLM storm has blown through, ruining valuable relationships with no regret or conscience. And brace yourself, another one is coming. Perhaps it is in that smiling face approaching you, or in that nice letter you just received from a "friend"?
What goes unnoticed to the MLMer is that when the neighborhood is turned into a marketplace, something precious is lost… which is not easily regained.
This aspect of the MLM experience should not be underestimated, and the reflective reader would do well to think twice about the value of friends, family, community, and church fellowship before joining or continuing in an MLM.
Summary of What’s Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing
1. MLMs are "doomed by design" to recruit too many salespeople, who in turn will then attempt to recruit even more salespeople, ad infinitum.
2. For many, the real attraction of involvement in multi-level marketing is the thinly veiled pyramid con-scheme made quasi-legal by the presence of a product or service.
3. The ethical concessions necessary to be "successful" in many MLM companies are stark and difficult to deal with for most people.
4. Friends and family should be treated as such, and not as "marks" for exploitation.
It is hoped that by clearly pointing out "What is Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing" that many might be spared the inherent and associative pitfalls by avoiding the practice.
As well, for those who insist on practicing MLM, it is hoped that this analysis will serve as a handy framework of problem areas to be avoided if and where this is possible.
Internet Links for Further Anti-MLM Research & Information
E-Mail examples, Frequently Asked Questions, Additional Points and Rebuttals section at http://www.vandruff.com/mlm_FAQ.html E-Mail the author of this article, Dean Van Druff, at end of this section.
The Pyramid-Scheme-Alert (PSA) organization offers consumer information on MLMs, news of legal cases, analytical tools, insightful articles, and an opportunity to effect new laws and social change by membership and contribution. You can do your own evaluation of any MLM program or suspected pyramid scheme.
False Profits, a book exposing how MLM participation can commandeer and derail people’s religious ideals, has a web site at http://www.FalseProfits.com which includes a sample Chapter of the book and many other excellent articles concerning the legality of MLM.
A Christian businesswoman, Athena Dean, exposes the spiritual cost and compromise of MLM proselytizing within the church in her books "Consumed by Success" and "All that glitters is not God — Breaking free from the sweet deceit of MLM," available at http://www.winepressbooks.com
A transcript of Dateline MSCNBC’s expose in 2004 on Amway / Quixtar.
Ami Chen Mills "Shaking the Money Tree"
is fascinating journalism that captures the "stink" of MLM pathology and culture most vividly. Hold your nose, and dive into major deja-vu at
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/
metro/
10.03.96/cover/multilevel-9640.html
FTC warnings on MLM chicanery at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/
alerts/lotionalrt.htm and http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/
invest/mlm.htm, with an excellent legal and historical overview at http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/
dvimf16.htm
US Government USPS on Employment
Schemes, including Distributorship and Franchise Fraud, Phony Job Opportunities,
and Multi-Level Marketing at http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/
inspect/emplmenu.htm,
or direct to the MLM warning at http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/
inspect/pyramid.htm
The Better Business Bureau (BBB) has Multi-Level Marketing Scam Alerts at http://www.bbb.com/alerts. This page has become cluttered, so you might want to click
on SEARCH and then type in "pyramid" or
"multi level marketing".
Forbes Magazine’s article on Herbalife has graphs that show the "by design" MLM
balloon burst, at http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/
1020/6009043a.html
Inc. Magazine’s Norm Brodsky gives us "Multilevel Mischief" which depicts how
MLMs churn through human relationships at http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601
/941.html
"MLM Survivor.com" has some up-to-date headlines on the latest MLM lawsuits and legal actions by State and Federal law enforcement at http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/.
Dr. Jon Taylor’s website with surveys
of MLM tax preparers, a comparative
analysis between MLM and illegal pyramid schemes, consumer protection guides,
"MLM numbers - the odds of success", information for law enforcement,
warning to consumers and regulators
in Asia and other countries, a history
of MLM, actions that can be taken by
victims of MLM, and humor and satire. http://www.mlm-thetruth.com
The Quatloos fraud & scam site tackles MLM at http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm
The Pinking Shears, a Mary Kay discussion and recovery website, is at http://www.thepinkingshears.org
Dr. Stephen Barrett explores the risks of medical products being marketed with MLM at http://www.quackwatch.com/
01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mlm.html. Specific examples are given.
Eli Mantel’s "Cagey Consumer" has a great set of research links and concise position statements at http://www.geocities.com/
WallStreet/5395/mlminfo.html
Eric Scheibeler, a high-level MLM’r turned whistle blower, is offering his book
"Merchants of Deception" at http://www.merchantsofdeception.com
/purpose.html
Peter Blood’s personal observations from Australia, after decades of experience
with MLM, at http://www.themlmfile.com
For articles on "MLM Harassment" at work, as well as postings on Amway and MLM in General, see The Skeptic’s Dictionary at: http://skepdic.com/mlmhar.html
For a humorous lampoon of some of the goofy products often peddled via MLM, see "The Laundry Disk 2000" Website at http://www.worldwidescam.com
Robert L. Fitzpatrick’s "The 10 Big Lies
of MLM" is posted at http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/fitzpatrick.htm
A MLM Lawyer gives an opinion on what constitutes a "legal" MLM scheme in the US at http://mlmatty.com
Consider Procter & Gamble’s perspective on the Amway "Satan Rumor".
For a sampling of lucid reformers
within the MLM industry (a most welcome and cathartic trend) see: 1) "Where Have All the Products Gone" by Gerald Nehra at http://mlmstartup.com/articles
/ramble.htm; 2) A lament of the soaring prices and flimflam nature of a few too many modern MLM products by Leonard Clements at http://www.marketwaveinc.com
/articles/MLMProducts.asp.
As a closing parable - if you are not already familiar with it - please click here to read a synopsis of Hans Christian Andersen’s "The Emperor’s New Clothes".
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida & Amigo VIII
This part is directed to MLM distributors who feel the urge to comment.
Since I have deleted all (31 42 as of today) but one of their comments (This one I left to make my point), for they seem to lack the general ability to distinguish fact from opinion, science from fiction, and research from hearsay.
To begin - here’s the definition of fact:
Fact
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A Fact is any of the following:
* Something actual as opposed to invented.
* Something concrete used as a basis for further interpretation.
* Information about a particular subject.
* Something known to be the case.
* Something in the world that makes a true statement true.
Statements of fact
A statement of fact or a factual claim is a statement that is presented as an accurate representation of a situation, event, or condition, and that is capable of being either proved or disproved.
If a factual claim is incorrect, then it is called a mistake or an error (if the person making the statement believed it to be correct) or a lie (if the person making the statement did not believe it). A factual claim shown to be correct is a fact. A factual claim that was believed to be true may later shown to be false (disproved), and a factual claim believed to have been disproved may later shown to be true.
A belief that cannot be proved or disproved is an opinion.
What we get from these MLM marketers - may it be Noni or Mona Vie are not facts.
What we get are opinions, speculations and wishful thinking.
What looks fact like is in all cases information, that does not really apply to the product directly.
Just take the Açai Berry Hype of Mona Vie as an example.
Fact: The Açai Berry (along with many other fruits) is a valuable food source and contains healthy ingredients.
Wishful thinking: Mona Vie equals the Açai Berry
Monarch Health Sciences has released only one information on the ingredients of Mona Vie.
It is composed of 19 Fruits and has artificially
added Celadrine and Glucosamine in it’s Active Version.
That’s pretty vague - and so is ALL the information that you can gather on official websites and sources. It appears that the Maker of Mona Vie deliberately avoids to be factual about the product.
The only official information that has been released and that has to be accurate by law is the nutrition chart. And that is - if anything -
sobering - for it doesn’t show anything of value
as an ingredient. 2% of the needed daily amount of Vitamin C and Iron hardly qualifies as being valuable.
That - Ladies and Gentlemen is a fact. Everything else I heard and saw during the 3 weeks I researched the products is opinion, hearsay, wishful thinking, fiction or put simply
lies.
A Source, paid for a statement does not constitute or establish facts. So - just for your general information. Even if it were to be a highly regarded scientist that speaks out on behalf of Mona Vie - his/her statements can NOT be considered facts. What credence has a paid supporter? Not much! Period.
Results of tests and studies made on ingredients of a fruit do not qualify to be attributed to the product as a whole.
Returning to an example I used earlier - you wouldn’t accept me stating, that eating Almonds will kill you (Allergies not withstanding
).
Though theoretically possible - practically the amount of cyanide is a mere trace amount, that will have no influence what so ever.
It is true however, that if I extract the cyanide from the almond, and ingest a sufficient amount of it - it will kill me.
But that is exactly what you are doing! Your claims are not a bit more accurate, then a statement that Almonds will kill you.
So please! Do not invite me to look at yet another cloned Mona Vie site, to "learn" about the FACTS.
There are none. I already looked - thank you!
Don’t reference Oprah, so that I will concede by the mere mentioning of her name, because I won’t. Not that I don’t like her, but my respect for her as a renown scientist is fairly limited. And since Small talk is not an ingredient of Fruit Juices - I am sorry to state that I will not accept any more Oprah references.
And yes - I read Dr. Perricones Super Food
statement. about the Açai Berry.
But if you quote Dr. Perricone, then I recommend, that you quote him properly and complete, since we’re talking Fruit Juices…
It is correct that he regards the Açai berry as a top food - but at the same tame, he categorizes fruit juices to be at the very bottom of the food chain - according to him a fruit juice is proud member of the "Worst Foods" group.
Look at that! Bummer, huh?
Present facts, that I’m not yet aware of and have not yet mentioned. And with facts I mean something, an independent source has come up with - a source that has no stake in the outcome of a study either way.
I listen to facts and solid arguments. My mindset is not etched in stone - and if you deliver proof to your belief that Mona Vie, Xango, Amigo, Noni or Mona Vie is what you say it is - maybe I buy!
But as of today I haven’t been able to dig up one single solid fact, that supports, what Fruit Juice distributors claim.
Do not use testimonials to try to make your point. Even though I know there are genuine testimonials out there - I also know that many of those you see on websites are fabricated and simply made up! That source is so tainted that it has lost it value entirely.
There is however one form of testimonial I’d be willing to accept. If certain conditions are met:
* No compensation in ANY form has changed hands
* Documented case with photos and medical records
* Participants are revealed and can be contacted for an interview
* Attending physician is made available
for a comment.
Anything less then that is beyond the point. If I have no way of verifying it - I really don’t need it.
Being pretty sure, not to receive any of that - I’m still not ready to give up. I have no stake in this matter either way - and if at the end of the day it turns out that these fruit juices are what they they claim to be - it’ll be fine by me.
But as of now - if it walks like a duck, smells like a duck, tastes like a duck - it probably is…
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Reposted w/o permission
I am not the author of this material - so don't shoot the messenger. :tongue: The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
It's long, and will take awhile to get through...
Reposted from a now defunct blog (w/o permission). If the owner of this content would like this post to be removed, please let me know, and I will take it down immediately.
Reposted material begins here:
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Posted Tuesday February 28, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida I
The other day a friend of mine went nuts.
All over sudden he become an expert in health issues, knew what antioxidants were and had a fantastic healing from one day to another. Oh - at the same time his IQ sank to about room temperature values in Celsius.
What happend? Beats me! That’s not quite true - since I know what has gotten into him - only it took me about two seconds to figure it as what it is - a pyramid scheme dressed up as serious business.
So why is it bothering me?
Mainly because it isn’t an honest business. All but the higher charges in the kind of business scheme are loosing for a variety of reasons - and all of them are irrefutable.
For one there is there the curiosity - that the paths of the key executives of all 4 companies have crossed and in some instances they even worked side by side.
Some of them are the very same people who started the Noni Fruit Juice scenario.
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art4883.asp
http://noni.worldwidewarning.net/
Noni was introduced by Morinda Inc. and their leading management split to formed new companies called Monarch Health Sciences and Tahitian Noni with the same scheme, same tactics and same formulation.
http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm(Mangosteen: Cancer researcher Dr. Ralph Moss takes a realistic look at one of the popular network marketing cure-alls like Xango or
Noni)
All of this alone raises warning flags the size of the Empire State Building,
especially considering, that even arch conservative networks like CBS already had features about Noni and similar schemes, exposing their tactics.
And this is only the tip of the iceberg.
What startled me right away were the outlandish promises, provided by the Mona Vie People.
According to them it’s a miracle - the one cure for almost any disease and ailment you can think of.
* "It cures cancer with a 85% success rate!",
* "People who could only go on crutches can walk now freely and without Pain!"
* "It cures arthritis"
* "It improves eyesight"
* "It gives smooth skin"
* "It cures Back pain"
and this list goes on and on, supported by testimonial over testimonial.
Having become curious on those testimonials I scouted the net - and one thing became clear and obvious pretty fast.
I didn’t found testimonials that enabled you to contact the person making it. Not that it is required, not that it means that they are all lies - but if on none of the virtually 1000’s of pages contact options are shown is a little odd.
But what really shows the quality of these testimonials are incidents like this:
Hello, My name is André Lachapelle, I am 62 years old and I
am a professor of dance.
I had an operation on my hip in 2003 and since I used MonaVie
my leg became more flexible than ever before and since I have
50% more energy on all the levels and that justifies to me to
make the promotion of MonaVie. This product is formidable!
Andre Lachapelle, Canada
Hello, My name is Danielle Lamalice, I am 57 years old and I
am a professor of dance.
Since I use MonaVie, I felt much more energy, because I can
teach from 5 to 8 hours per day without feeling any tiredness.
In 1984, I had a car accident and I had broken ankle in a
thousand crumbs and thanks to MonaVie the pain caused
by osteoarthritis decreased by 60% and my legs feel much
less tension. I feel that my body functions like a 30 year old
woman! Thank you In MonaVie!
Danielle Lamalice, Mascouche
Now isn’t that something? I never knew that there is something like a professor of dance - and here I find them on a MonaVie Testimonial Page one after the other.
And they must be soul siblings - since they even used identical introductions.
Hmm - how strange.
And believe it or not - both have French names. (Probably because if you have a French sounding name you’re either a cook or a ballet dancer - duh!)
But strange nevertheless…
But it get’s better. Both even know to the percentile how much better they feel.
"Yes my dear - I feel 38% finer then I did yesterday".
How often have we heard someone saying something like that.
Oh - we don’t? Oh - strange again….
Chances of that happening are what? -
A gazillion to One?
These testimonials - and many others like it make it pretty obvious what they are:
Doctored !!
Now - to make that clear - I truly believe that some people feel better - and I am
not surprised by it. But I also know, that "Placebo’s" work and are routinely used
in hospitals and by doctors. Same goes for the power of suggestion. If everybody around you tells you how miraculous a medicine is - the mind will help!!
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Posted Wednesday March 1, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida II
So what do we know by now as a fact?
1. The same executives, that brought us Noni are now heading two new companies, that have new products out, that follow exactly the same scheme.
Given the fact that Noni already is under fire worldwide for unsubstantiated claims, questionable distribution methods, Spam - even
linked to cases of Hepatitis - and the list goes on - it is not really something that anyone would suggest to be too trusting with - knowing the history of these guys.
2. It is more then obvious, that testimonials are being fabricated.
Are they all fake?
Probably not - but if this were to be a murder trial - the suspect would be Scott free - more than just reasonable doubt has been established.
--------------------------------------------
Posted Thursday March 2, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida III
We found out, that it probably would be wise to use utmost caution with the products in question.
But it gets better - or worse for that matter.
According to not the manufacturer’s but distributors websites these products cure simply everything. That’ll be so cool - if it were to be true.
But is it?
Let’s look into this matter a little deeper, shall we?
What’s in them that causes these "wonderful" healings?
In the case of Mona Vie and Fruta Vida it’s the Açai Berry, for XanGo it’s mangosteen and for Noni it’s the Noni Fruit.
Everything around all marketing efforts concentrates on just those main fruits.
It is puzzling though - that all of them mix with other fruits in their recipes - in case of Mona Vie the Star Açai Berry is at the end of the day only one of 19 different Fruits.
Hmmm - that’s strange.
But hey - they have a website that sheds light on all of them and man - each and every one of them simply burst of benefits to mankind.
There they attribute cure or relief for 181 diseases and ailements to these fruits.
And these are the main ingredients that these fruits contribute:
* Antioxidants
* Polysaccharides
* abundant Vitamin C
* Phytonutrients
* Minerals
* Phenols
* soluble Fiber
* Beta-Carotene
* Magnesium
* Iron
* Phosphorous
* Potassium
* Vitamin B6
* Serotonin
* Norepinephrine
* Calcium
* Potassium
* Sodium
* Sulphur
* B Vitamins
* Proanthocyanidins
* Flavonoids
* Polyphenols
* Copper
* Resveratrol
* Folates
* High levels of dietary fiber
* High levels of essential amino acids
* trace minerals
* High levels of plant sterols
* Essential fatty acids
* Protein profile similar to eggs
* more nutrients per calorie than calories per nutrient
* all in all more than 150 nutritive constituents
Woaahh!!! Isn’t that something?? That must be the end of all disease and suffering!
They probably don’t have enough space on their bottles to print out ALL THAT GOOD STUFF onto the Nutrition Chart!
That’s so exciting! Isn’t it?
So let’s have a look (Just hope that I have enough Webspace to display that many ingredients!!!)
Here we go - and for good measure I display the values for 5 drinks:
1. Coca Cola Classic
2. Açai Pure
3. Minutemaid fresh pressed Orange Juice
4. Mona Vie
5. Fruta Vida.
To enable direct comparison I calculated the
values to a serving of 100 ml for each contestant, as well as the pricing for 1000 ml (1litre).
Well here we go - be prepared to study it for the coming months, for it simply must be massive!
Nutritional Chart
Ah - but?! What the …
Well - I hid the name of the products, so that the tension may rise a little higher.
And no - no mistake!
These values are exactly those that the manufacturers print on their labels.
I didn’t add anything or left anything out - these are OFFICIAL DATA!
The solution, what hides behind which number can be found at the bottom of this page.
Yes - reality tends to have a different face, when a strong light is shed on marketing rants.
Without knowing what is what it appears that product 1 and 5 do actually have some beneficiary and healthy ingredients - and they are as well reasonable in price.
2,3 and 4 however don’t seem to have any beneficiary ingredients at all.
So what’s the deal here?
Since at least two of the wonder juices are presented here - what’s with all the promises of health and good things in them? Where are they for crying out loud?
The European counterpart of the US FDA sheds some light on what’s really going on.
They analyzed over 20 different Noni juices* and found that in average they contain about 80% simple water - and that the rest of whatever healthy ingredients
there might be is too miniscule to be measured - hence it is also impossible for them to have any impact on anyone’s health - for better or worse.
*remember: Noni was invented and brought to market by the same group of people, that (now spread over 3 companies) are now marketing XanGo, Mona Vie, Fruta Vida. Needless to say, that they are unlikely to all over sudden change their success recipes…
I quote a former Mona Vie distributor:
"I used to be a top distributor with Monavie with over 100 distributors in my downline
in only 2 months time! …
My sign up ratio was low and so was the conversion ratio. Not worth my time.
I worked my butt of and made peanuts and I am a marketing expert!
Their product is watered down and a total joke.
In fact I had a lab check it out and we found it contains only about 5% Açai juice
with the main ingredient being water!
Açai juice should be thick and concentrated not thin like Apple Juice.
Not only is the product cheap the label is as well and the price is outrageous!
All these claimes coming in are fabricated lies of distributors hoping to make $$.
If all the naive keep buying on brainwashed autopilot enthusiasm
the co will be around for awhile. Use your head not your emotion."
Now - it alone might just be the scorn of a disappointed Juice peddler.
But it coincides too well with the findings of the European Food Commission, which has to guard food products for the 550 million people of Europe - and
they surely can be taken as serious as the US FDA, who by the way did send out warning letters to numerous distributors to curb their exaggerated claims.
And when it comes down to it - let’s look even closer.
So - we have 80% water and 16% sugar in Mona Vie - that leaves a whopping 4 % for 19 different fruits - or the incredible wealth of 0.21% for the star of the show - the Açai Berry.
Well ? Well ? Well ?
This result is not weird science - but simply made available through research that is there for everyone to find.
It explains in the simplest of terms, why you don’t find the promised ingredients. The products are watered down so much, that you can’t possibly find anything left that’s really healthy!! And that’s not all - these products have significantly higher sugar content
then a regular Coke Classic - and every child knows that Coke is not a health drink!
Draw your own conclusion on these facts - and please, don’t kid yourself. If there actually were significant amounts of Vitamins, Minerals, and other Nutrients that they so glowingly endorse - they definitely would have them appear on their bottle labels.
Mona Vie even does not shy away to print absolutely negligible amounts of Iron and Vitamin C. 2% of the daily requirements! You would need to ingest almost two bottles, to reach your daily needs….
But all you see there is a void…
As promised - here is the solution on what juice hides behind what number!
1. Minute Maide 100% squeezed Orange Juice
2. Coca Cola Classic
3. Mona Vie
4. Fruita Vida
5. Açai Pure
----------------------------------------------
Posted Friday March 3, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida IV
Astonishing enough - although the realty is there - out in the open - neither the potential buyer, nor the distributor don’t bother to simply take a look at the label, that shows without a shadow of a doubt what’s in the miracle juice.
I wrote an eMail to MonaVie, describing my concern about the sugar content, that is so much higher then the most popular soft drink - Coca Cola.
And I got an immediate response:
"Thank you for your e-mail.
We look forward to helping you and appreciate your business.
We will respond to your request in a timely manner.
Sincerely,MonaVie Customer Care"
Well - that was weeks ago - and I gather that timely manner means in this case probably indefinitely.
Of course - answering this would put them on a really slippery slope…
OK - now that we have established - that no one really cares - let’s take a look at what the fruit people care about!
Uh - and we find tons of stuff - that they believe in. Medical studies to be just one of it. Not that they read them, because that would mean, that they could no longer use them to support their cause.
But hey - we won’t sweat the small stuff, won’t we.
As a matter of fact - there’s no evidence at all for their claims - despite them re-iterating those over and over again. Nothing written, nothing published, simply nothing.
There is neither a medical study on Noni, Xango, Mona Vie, Fruta Vida, nor a clinical Trial.
And that’s a fact.
How come?
Well for one - let’s stick for argument’s sake to Mona Vie - there is no evidence of any study dealing with Mona Vie.
OK - it’s relatively new - on the market since January 2005 - so it might have been overlooked. But the same holds true for Noni, XanGo and Fruita Vida.
No studies at all.
So what are the studies they reference to?
In Mona Vie’s Case it’s a test tube experiment - a precursor to an actual study, where different concentrations of an Açai Berry concentrate are applied directly onto cells - in this case leukemia cells. This showed encouraging results.
So why isn’t it legit to use that study?
For a variety of reasons:
* a medical study by definition includes humans and their reaction as their subject - a test tube test gives no indication on actual human reactions. They are performed to figure out, whether real research is warranted - and often times - even if these preliminary tests do show potential - they don’t hold up in following studies.
* Another point is that we would have to compare the oral ingestion of a (in MonaVie’s case) highly diluted fluid to the direct application of a concentrated solution to diseased cells.
To make a comparison: If using cough syrup - you wouldn’t rub it onto your chest and expect results - you would ingest it.
Or - to make it even more trivial and powerful - the fact that Firestone has tire compounds, that can go 300 mp/h does not mean that your Ford Pinto with Firestone tires can do that, too.
* the last point, that I’m pointing out in this regard is the fact that MonaVie e.g. does not equal the ingredients of the Açai Berry. Just following the Manufacturer’s description - we learn that it is only one of 19 fruits. So can we even think of using a test tube study to determine whether MonaVie or Fruta Vida are healthy or not?
No - especially since we don’t have an idea, on how all these different fruits do actually work together as a concoction.
Are there contra indications?
Do individual ingredients cancel each other out?
Could some combinations of some ingredients even be harmful?
None of these questions is being addressed by "the science behind MonaVie" - and these are question that need to be asked before anything else is being tackled. But guess what - they aren’t!
* and last - but not least - if we turn this kind of argument around it would for example be a legitimate claim to state that almonds will most likely kill you, for they contain cyanide.
Is that a lie? By no means - for it is a commonly known fact - as well as it is common knowledge, that cyanide’s are some of the most lethal poisons known to man.
But again - is it legitimate to make a claim like that?
Certainly not - since the amounts of this poison are trace amounts, that are so minuscule, that you’d have to ingest considerable amounts of almonds over a prolonged period of time to even get an indication of a health problem.
What’s left is - that these kinds of arguments are practically invalid.
As cyanide in almonds, the healthy ingredients of the individual fruits are so minuscule, that they don’t even find their way onto the official labels! The reason , that all the healthy stuff only exists in sales pitches and links to obscure studies - and not on the label is - that you actually have to prove the statements you make on the nutrition chart….
Actually - when looking at the "science" part you see mambo jumbo. Nothing specific to actually research and/or results - you just receive a very basic elaboration on generic health aspects - Nothing about the "Science behind Mona Vie".
Searching further reveals an impressive looking medical advisory board.
Researching it’s members does not show much - other then again hundreds of links to hundreds of Mona Vie sites. None but one of the advisory board members stands out for anything other then being on the advisory board of Mona Vie.
None of these fine individuals has published anything of significance, that would indicate him/her to be an expert in the field.
I wrote to the one member of the medical board that had a track record in her field as a bariatric doctor and asked:
"I encountered your site, when researching a product called Mona Vie.
According to the companies website - you are a founding member of their Medical Advisory board.
My research on Mona Vie raised more questions, then it provided answers so I am somewhat lost and hope you don’t mind providing some short answers.
1. Are you still on the Advisory Board?
2. According to the label Mona Vie has a 47% higher sugar content than
Coca Cola Classic and the only ingredients known as healthy are miniscule
amounts of Vitamin C and Iron. The website and all subsequent distributor sites however claim ingredients that do not show on the label - e.g. Omega 6 and 9, Proteins, Fibers and a wide variety of Vitamins, Minerals
and Nutrients. Can you explain this discrepancy?
3. Last question: According to distributors Sites Mona Vie is the cure for almost any disease and stops just short from reviving the dead.
What is your opinion on the real potency of Mona Vie?"
So - guess what? Did I receive an answer?
Naaahh!
Whoever claims knowledge of science behind MonaVie step forward and go tell! And it’s not only MonaVie ailing of bloodless facts - here’s a real doctor’s take on Xango:
http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm
Scientific Facts that are so often quoted do in no case relate to the products in question - because they are non-existent. They relate however to parts of the ingredients - may it be the Noni fruit, the mangosteen or the Açai berry.
And if you look closer into that issue there’s not much science either. Again references to other references - and a total lack of cold, hard facts.
The closer you look, the further you are being taken away from the original product - and strictly scientifically speaking - the relevance to the original product is either no longer there - or so watered down in its significance that you’re not even compare apples to oranges any longer but you cross into myths.
"Is attributed", "Is known for", "has long been used for" and similar phrases are becoming accepted stand-ins for real scientific evidence.
And reading forth and forth a joke comes into mind that deals with the question.
"Why carrots are supposed good for your eyesight ?"
The answer to it is so appropriate for the arguments that try to legitimize the benefits for all these products…
The answer in the joke?
"Have you ever seen a rabbit with eyeglasses?"
Depressing as it is - I have to admit that there is no shred of evidence available that supports the validity of both claims and products.
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Posted Saturday March 4, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida V
To recap the "science" behind all these fruit miracles - there is none!
No scientific study on any of the fruit mixtures as such - and no real medical studies on the
ingredients they contain.
What there is are probes, test tube studies and intentions to research.
What there is are experiments and findings on the generic properties of certain antioxidants
or nutrients. There are of course studies on Vitamins, Minerals and Fibers - which are
contained in varying quantities of the fruits in question.
While there is no real doubt - that the Açai Berry or Blueberries, Cranberries, Pears and many other fruits are healthy as a food and have or may have properties, that can support healing
of ailments and so on - it is not really the issue in the research of these Fruit concoctions, which are sold for extraordinary amounts of money!
The issue is - that all these healthy ingredients, that make the fruits so valuable are
not present in the fruit juices that promote them so massively - or to be precise -if they are present - then only in neglectable, not measurable quantities.
The Nutrition Facts provided by the manufacturers prove that without a doubt.
Because if they were - they would most certainly boast with the available quantities
of Vitamins, Fibers, healthy fats, Minerals.
Mona Vie e.g. even puts Vitamin C and Iron on their label, despite they are having
a concentration per serving that would require you to take in 50 servings to cover your
daily need for Vitamin C and Iron.
Xango or Fruta Vida don’t show any benificial
ingredients at all!
And exactly that is the point !
And I couldn’t have found a better closing argument as the words of Dr. Perricone,
whom the manufacturers so massively like to quote with his statement, that the Açai Berry is one of the Top Ten Super Foods of today!
Guess what he puts in the group of the worst foods? FRUIT JUICE!!! Along with the remark to skip them and eat the fruit instead!
But why are people claiming to feel the impact, when ingesting these fruit wonders?
The lift in energy is quite easy to explain - and it were a wonder, if it wouldn’t happen.
The extremely high sugar content of all of these mixtures takes car of that.
Coca Cola always gets blasted with criticism over the amount of sugar it contains - but that actually pales in comparison to our juices! 27 - 47% more sugar is present in the health miracles of Fruita Vida and Mona Vie. Just Xango has just a little less sugar then Coke.
Not that that is a good value for a "Health Drink" anyway.
And all of that is by no means an accident.
But how can one explain those people who sincerely believe that their health improves?
There are a variety of factors contributing to that phenomenon.
Let’s start out with those, who are in dire need of relief - chronically ill people.
They might be in constant pain, or depend on permanent and expensive medication
and they most definitely are constantly and desperately looking for each and everything
that promises help.
And then they encounter these "wonders of nutrition and health benefits" - either
presented by a distributor, who will have no problem to confirm that product"XYZ"
is known to cure or at least lessen the pain of exactly the disease the potential customer is suffering from.
And no - not all distributors are that way - some sincerely believe in the potency of
their product - and they are duly conditioned to do so. And - a certain naivety has to come in play here - they can’t perceive, that they themselves are being used and conditioned to believe even the most outlandish claims.
Why is that?
To understand that - you have to look into the basics and characteristics almost all Multi Level Marketing Systems adhere to. (I abbreviate that in the following descriptions with the widely used acronym MLM)
Other then in conventional Marketing and Distribution the demand on a distributor is vastly different.
Only on the surface it is about the product - regardless what that might be.
Beneath the surface and in the day to day operation of the MLM System and
it’s distributors it is about recruiting people as distributors - for that is the only
way to make money.
I will take a closer look on the MLM business model in an upcoming post - for now I concentrate on trying to explain how people are sucked into the system and how even normally soundminded people are being manipulated.
All MLM operations have one thing in common.
At least monthly or biweekly, usually weekly meetings of regional distributors, where as many people gather as the organization can muster.
And what a party is being held - reminding you of a lively church or happy family meetings. A lot of cheering - success stories are being told - tales of how much money is and can be made, the product is being hyped - people stand up and give their testimonial (by the way - it is a very common practice to find some of those who give testimonials traveling from meeting to meeting
to give them in whatever form they are needed…)
And all of that - the atmosphere loaded with confidence, promises of a better future
and health creates a synergy effect, that is hard to resist - especially, when some of those around you are friends and neighbors, that you know and trust.
And there comes to play something that the MLM marketers calculate and bank on - the power of suggestion.
All these people - and many friends they must be right - and all the good mood and so on and so on.
These events and procedure do not by accident resemble the way cult work and sort of brainwash their followers. People are getting conditioned, made immune against criticism - for they have witnessed people walk - who were in the wheelchair, or could move, where they couldn’t before!
How powerful and suggestive is that?
They don’t know that there are professionals testimonial providers under them, they don’t realize, that the suggestive power of all of that makes them even believe that they feel better themselves. They feel the energy boost - the short lived it is - from taking a sip of the miracle fruit juice - so it all must be true.
And they take this energy - that they have been empowered with by those meeting
and bring it in into their conversations with potential prospects - and if you believe
in a thing and use it yourself it’s much easier to convince someone, as if you’re
just selling something.
So are these convinced distributors to blame? No - they are as much being deceived on so many levels as they potential prospects.
It is the system and it’s makers, that without scruple and with the full knowledge
on the reality of the product exploit the people under them.
And that is it! A combination of sugar hype, mass suggestion, mass enthusiasm, paired with false and real testimonials and the prospect of huge amounts of money coming your way along with a better health - who’s to blame, if he falls for it??
Anyone can do research on these issues - the internet provides plenty of resources on the topic of mass suggestion and manipulation…
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida VI
Before I go into details, why I believe that all these fruit Juice MLM schemes are
not an honest business, I’d like to take some time to look at the business model itself.
Even before I intensified my research to come to understandable conclusions warning bells were ringing off the hook, when I heard of the system.
Why would I pay anyone to sell his product? The average amount members of those systems shell out each and every month vary between $ 120.00 and $ 280.00.
Each month!
But that’s only the cost on the surface…
Beneath that you soon find out that distributors
have to buy expensive promo material
(Fancy folders, containing a brochure, DVD, Video CD etc. for 10 bucks a pop) to promote
the product.
They are urged to buy literature on how to succeed, encouraged to visit quite expensive training sessions, and last but not least to sign themselves and the people in their downline up for Automatic Shipping, so that they will receive their products automatically, regardless, whether they need it or not.
The next point that triggered red flags was the fact that the whole thing actually isn’t about selling the product at all! It’s sole purpose is to recruit new distributors and create a downline. (which is the term for all the people, that you’ve recruited).
That however were only my initial thoughts - and they alone would stop me cold, regardless what product were to be shown to me.
So why are even experienced business oriented people falling for it?
Because they are being approached by people they know and trust - which is one of the most devious things of the system.
So what exactly is a MLM system and how does it operate?
First there is the inventor, manufacturer or whoever comes up with an idea.
Now - that certainly is nothing unusual at all - and that’s true.
But what if you have a product that wouldn’t stand a chance at let’s say WalMart or your department store?
For whatever reason - may it be the price, the quality or the reliability you would have to look for other venues.
One of which is Multi Level Marketing.
As the name indicated - it works on different levels - many of them.
Basic concept is to find three or four people, that not only buy the product, but which are being sent out to find three or four people themselves.
Along with it however - each one is obligated to purchase a certain amount of product
each month.And of course that’s where the profit lies for the main distributor.
Each member who sells the product will receive a certain percentage of everything sold underneath him - in his down-line.
In newer system like MonaVie there are additional income opportunities compared to older systems - by adding a group system called the matrix.
Once your downline has a certain level you are eligible for additional benefits.
I tried to make more sense out of it - or would like to dive deeper into the payment structure they did set up - but frankly it’s somewhat between confusing and amusing.
Impressive color charts, ranks named after jewels - all somewhat familiar from MLM of the past all make a nice picture - but the structure has so many dependencies that it is easy to loose track.
So I’m not going to criticize the payment system for all but one point, that would
make me not join.
As a distributor you depend of the sales that are being made in your downline -
or better on the amount of new recruits.
One should assume, that your total is the basis for what you are being paid for.
The payment system however magically lets a part of that - at least what your bonuses,
points and advancement in rank is concerned - disappear.
They just allow the result of your "lesser" Distribution leg count for your advancement
(additionally only if some other conditions are met) That does not appear to be fair - and looks to me more like exploitation then just accounting.
But that’s just me.
But you can look for yourself and download the Payment Plan(PDF)
Now is that all a bad business model by definition?
Probably not - one of the american product icons started out as MLM.
Tupperware - one of the pioneers of MLM is still around and still using it - though somewhat different from current models.
So why does one system work and others don’t?
Every MLM system is based on several premises:
1. A rock solid product
2. little to no competition, change in customer needs, innovations, that may make your product obsolete
3. practically no market saturation - an unlimited chain of potential customers - assuming that EVERYONE is needing it
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida VII
Now let’s check the validity of these premises in more detail:
1: Rock Solid Product
2: No Competition
3: No Market Saturation
Comparing e.g. Tupperware with our juicy schemes brings several things to the forefront.
For one - the time period, when the product is being introduced.
Tupperware is a product of the 50’s. Fridges just became a standard household item and the need to properly store foods in it was becoming apparent. The product was innovative and responded to a widespread need - and had an inherently huge market potential especially since there was no competition around to challenge it. Additionally the product didn’t make outlandish claims, but those, that were
logical and could be tested by the user right away - so there were no doubts about usability at all. And since the product wears out eventually - there is a need for refill’s.
Another factor that heavily contributes to Tupperware’s success is the customer mentality
of the 50’s and 60’s.
Brand Loyalty was a really meaningful term then and users, once hooked on one brand rarely switched - which held true for almost any product, may it be cars, clothing, perfumes - or little plastic containers.
Looking at our fruit juices however the situation is completely different. Not only are they not innovative, the market prospect is considerably more narrow, for not everyone needs the product, the product benefits are not proven or established and furthermore there is competition on every possible level.
Where does that leave us looking at the situation?
Well - to begin with - we can’t state that we are dealing with a rock solid product. It were to be different if we had medical studies or clinical trials, that would support the health benefit claims. And again - I’m not talking about the benefits of an individual ingredient, but of the product itself. Our Fruit guru’s have nothing to show on that account.
And for that matter on the product nutrition label.
Is there a need for a product like Noni, Xango, Mona Vie or Fruta Vida?
If it were proven that they could deliver what they promise - most definitely.
But we already know, that they can’t prove even only one of their claims. They can even show, that the healthy ingredients they claim to be the backbone of their product is even in their concoction!!! (See label)
We know for sure, that testimonials are being fabricated - solid and reputable products do not need such unethical endorsements.
And what about the competition? Other then Tupperware in the 50’s - these Fruit Juices face competition on every possible level.
From Fruit Juices that actually contain more then trace amounts of Vitamins and Minerals, to the actual fruits, from food supplements to actual medication and if that were not to be enough - they have to compete most of all against each other! And they are at it big time!
Despite having a basically identical origin (their company founders and presidents all derive from the same company!) they claim their competition to be useless, not as potent as..,
even scams - which actually has some humor to it. Funny also that XanGo and MonaVie stem from the same maker and fight themselves as if there were no tomorrow.
Bottomline on that issue is that the second assumption is at best wishful thinking…
Last point is the market saturation.
I usually shy away from strong words - but to believe that there is no such thing is just plain and simply stupid. Any 6th grader would know AND comprehend, that regardless what it is - there can not be unlimited growth.
But the belief that there is unlimited growth is the cornerstone of every MLM! (Or Pyramid Scheme?).
Each of the 3 assumptions listed at the top are essential for the MLM system to function the way, people are made to believe it works.
It is pretty obvious that, when an ingredient is applied, that seems so suspiciously absent in these MLM Schemes, the house of cards is tumbling down. This ingredient is called common sense.
None of our fruit juice concoctions holds water.
Product features, that can’t be proven, Competition all over the place and a market that is so narrow, that it will dry out within 2-3 years.
In the following you will find an excellent article about MLM, that I re-print with the author’s permission, and that also contains a lot of interesting Links to read up on a variety of issues regarding MLM.
The approach is a broad one - not aiming at a specific product or scheme - but paints the
picture of the MLM marketplace very accurately.
Dean Van Druff
What’s Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing?
a.k.a. "Networking" Companies
Bad Image or Bad Reality?
"Let me tell you about an incredible ground-level business opportunity," and you are invited to a house or to lunch for "a discussion." Funny enough, you feel sick in your gut that there is some hidden agenda or deception. "Probably a multi-level marketing (MLM) organization," you think. Suppose it is? Should you trust your instincts? Is there anything wrong with MLM?
This article will analyze four problem areas with MLM. Specifically, it will focus on problems of I) Market Saturation, II) Pyramid Structure, III) Morality and Ethics, and IV) Relationship Issues associated with MLMs. Thus, you can properly assess your "instincts."
I. Market Saturation: An Inherent Problem
Back to the Basics
A tutorial on market saturation hardly seems necessary in most business discussions, but with MLM, unfortunately, it is. Common sense seems to get suspended when considering if MLMs are viable, even theoretically, as a profitable means of distribution for all parties involved. This suspension is created by a heightened expectation of "easy money," but more on that later.
New, Innovative?
MLM can no longer claim to be new and, thus, exempt from the normal rules of the market and the way goods and services are sold. They have been tried and, for the most part, have failed. Some have been miserable failures in spite of offering excellent products.
Marketing innovations are not rare in the modern world, as evidenced by the success of Wal-Mart, which found a more efficient and profitable way to distribute goods and services than the status quo, providing lasting value to stockholders, employees, distributors, and consumers. But this is not the case with any MLM to date, and after 25 years of failed attempts, it is time to point out the reasons why.
Don’t Some People Make Money in MLM?
First, we will analyze the "driving mechanism" of MLMs. We will detail how they are intrinsically unstable, guaranteed by design to oversaturate the market with no one noticing. We will look at why MLMs can never equalize into profitability the way companies in the real world can, so that the result will be that the organization as a whole cannot, even in theory, be profitable. When this inevitable destiny occurs, the only money to be made is not from the product or service but from the losses of people lower down in the organization.
Thus the MLM organization becomes exploitative, and many high-level MLM promoters have been shut down, the "executives" incarcerated, for selling the fraud of impossible success to others. Other, larger MLMs have survived by hiring large batteries of attorneys to ward off federal prosecutors, even bragging about the funds they have in reserve for this purpose.
The unfortunate "distributor" at the bottom is the loser, and once this becomes apparent beyond all the slick videotapes and motivational pep-talks, good people start to get a bad taste in their mouths about the whole situation.
So, yes, money can be made with MLM. The question is whether the money being made is legitimate or "made" via a sophisticated con scheme. And if MLM is "doomed by design" to fail, then the answer is, unfortunately, the latter.
But how exactly does this happen, and must it always?
Doomed by Design?
The first question is this: Is any company choosing this marketing strategy destined to fail, to degenerate into an exploitative venture, regardless of how good the product is?
To see this clearly we must go through an, otherwise, obvious and elementary discussion of how any business must be careful not to overhire, overextend, or oversupply a market.
The Real World
Any business must carefully consider supply and demand. For example, if the ReVo Corporation thinks that it will have a full-fledged fad on their ovoid sunglasses next summer, perhaps they should plan to build and distribute, say, 10M units. This involves gearing up factories, setting up distribution and dealer networks, and carefully managing the inventories at each level so that ReVo will still have credibility with their distributors, retail outlets, and the public the following year.
If it turns out that there is a "run" on ReVo products, and they sell out in mid-June, then they have miscalculated demand and will miss out on profits they could have made. The more serious problem, however, is overestimating the saturation point for the product. If they make 10M units, and sell only 2M units, this may be the end of ReVo as a company.
The all-too-obvious point here is that management of supply and demand, and keen insight into realistic market penetration and saturation are crucial to any business, for any product or service. Mismanagement of this aspect of a business will eclipse good market access, excellent product design, human resource assets, production quality, and so on. Simply stated, a failure to "hit the Target" of supply and demand can ruin a company if the market is oversaturated.
Market Dynamics and the End of the Cold War
Interestingly, the issue of supply and demand is what brought the USSR to its knees. By design, the Soviet government tried to macro-manage supply, where bureaucrats would decide how many potatoes were needed, how much toilet paper, etc. Assuming these bureaucrats did the best they could, unfortunately their efforts to deliberately manipulate the control "knob" of supply and demand was not good enough. Notwithstanding their good intentions, they were usually wrong, which created huge shortages and surpluses, and led to a massive economic collapse.
Seeing the disastrous end of market naiveté in Russia should help clarify the fundamental problem with the MLM approach. In the real world, the profit of a company is directly related to the skill and prescience of the "hand" on the "supply knob," so to speak. In the USSR, that "hand" could not react fast or accurately enough to market realities through the best efforts of the bureaucrats.
With MLMs, the situation is much worse. Nobody is home. Even the Soviets had someone thinking about how much was enough! If the bureaucrat in Russia was having a hard time trying to play Adam Smith’s "invisible hand" in setting the supply level in the Soviet Union, then an MLM "executive" is in a truly unfortunate position. Not only is there no one assigned to make the decision of how much is enough, the MLM is set up by design to blindly go past the saturation point and keep on going. It will grow till it collapses under its own weight, without even a bureaucrat noticing.
MLM is like a train with no brakes and no engineer headed full-throttle towards a terminal.
"Everyone Will Want to Buy This Product!"
All products and services have partial market penetration. For example, only so many people wish to use a discount broker, as evidenced by the very successful but only partial market penetration of Charles Schwab. Not everyone wishes to join a particular discount club, or buy gold, or drink filtered water, or wear a particular style of shoe, or use any product or service. No one in the real world of business would seriously consider the thin arguments of the MLMers when they flippantly mention the infinite market need for their product or services.
The Demand Problem: Of Widgets and MLMs
Imagine a neat new product called a Widget that will sell for $100 (a fixed price, to keep it simple). Now, while everyone could use a Widget, not everyone will. Some will be afraid of anything new. Some will be loyal to existing brands. Some will want to buy an inferior product for less money. Some will want a more expensive product for prestige, regardless of quality. The reasons go on and on, and the fact is that only "X" Widgets will sell at $100.
The question for would-be marketeers is… what is "X," and how can it be predicted to maximize profits? The fact that "X" is hard to pin down does not mean that it does not exist, and every Widget built beyond "X" will end up producing a problem for the organization. The market only wants "X" Widgets at $100. What are you going to do with your extra inventory of Widgets beyond "X" that no one wants, and the sales people you hired to sell them?
No one can perfectly predict "X," and the situation is not nearly as simple as considered here, but the objective for marketeers is to forecast "X" as closely as possible in order to provide lasting value to all parties involved: to avoid missed opportunities as well as waste, loss, or failure.
The MLM Forecasting Approach: Ignoring the Target
Who has an eye on "X," the point of market saturation at a given price, in an MLM? Well, the funny thing, or perhaps the tragic thing, is that "X" will be reached and exceeded without anyone noticing or caring.
Let’s just suppose that "X" has been reached today in a particular MLM; the number of possible units sold at this price has just been exceeded, and you happen to be a starry-eyed prospect sitting in an MLM meeting listening to the pitch. Now consider: Does anyone in this company know about "X"? Does anyone care? Is the issue being suppressed on purpose for some other motive? Since we are supposing that the market saturation number "X" has been reached, everyone joining the MLM from now on is buying into a false hope. But that is not what the speaker will be saying. He will be telling you, "Now is the time to join. Get in on the ‘ground floor’." But it is all a lie, even though the speaker may not know it. The total available market "X" has been reached and nobody noticed. All the distributors will lose from here on out. Could this be you? How could you possibly know at what point you will become the liar in an MLM?
Pop or Drop
Perhaps a better paradigm than the runaway train analogy offered earlier of how MLMs perform over time is this: a helium balloon let loose in an empty room with a spiked ceiling, where product quality is analogous to the amount of helium. The better the product, the faster the balloon will rise, accelerating unhindered, towards disaster. The other option would be the case of a lousy product, in which case the balloon will sink of its own accord, never getting off the ground. To be sure, equilibrium is not in the cards, except perhaps as an accident, and then only temporarily. MLMs are intrinsically unstable. For any company that chooses an MLM approach, it’s pop or drop.
MLMs vs. the Real World
The basic question that needs to be asked is this: If this product or service is so great, then why isn’t it being sold through the customary marketing system that has served human society for thousands of years? Why does it need to resort to a "special marketing" scheme like an MLM? Why does everyone need to be so inexperienced at marketing this! Is the product just a thin cover for what is really a pyramid scheme of exploiting others? But more on that later.
From Contracted, Protected Distribution… to Mayhem
Imagine that Wendy’s became suddenly possessed by the idea that "everyone needs to eat," and opened four Wendy’s franchises on the four corners of an intersection in your neighborhood. Who would benefit from this folly? The consumer? Certainly not the franchises; they would all lose. Wendy’s corporate? Perhaps temporarily, by speculative inventory sales while the unfortunate franchises were under the delusion that they could all make money. But in the end, the negative image of four outlets dying a slow death would likely offset the temporary inventory sales bubble. Even the most unreflective of the hapless franchisees would think twice about doing business in such a manner again. This is why real-world distributorships and franchises are contractually protected by territory and/or market.
Again, the simple fact is that even the most successful products will have partial market penetration. The same is true for services. Demand and "market share" are finite, and to overestimate either is catastrophic.
So why are MLM promoters obscuring this? Who is in control of the supply "knob," carefully and skillfully managing the size of the distribution channels, number of salespeople, inventory, etc., to insure the success of all involved in the business? The truth is chilling: nobody.
Imagine trying to write a computer model of how MLMs work, and you will see this point most vividly. An MLM could never work, even in theory. Think about it.
The People Machine
Chernobyl had a control system that failed. MLMs have no control mechanisms at all.
Where is the "switch" that can be flipped in an MLM when enough sales people are hired? In a normal company a manager says, "We have enough, let’s stop hiring people at this point." But in an MLM, there is no way to do this. An MLM is a human "churning" machine with no "off button." Out of control by design, its gears will grind up the money, time, credibility, and entrepreneurial energy of well-meaning people who joined merely to supplement their income. Better to just steer clear of this monster to begin with.
There is simply no way to avoid the built-in failure mechanism of MLMs. If a company chooses to market this way, it will eventually "hire" (with no base pay and charging to join) far too many people.
Thus, the only "control system" will be the inevitable losses and subsequent bad image the MLM company will gain after it does what it was designed to do: fail. And sooner or later we have got to stop blaming this particular MLM company or that, and admit that the MLM technique itself is fundamentally flawed.
II. Pyramid Structure: An Organizational Problem
The Un-Pyramid
For most MLMs, the product is really a mere diversion from the real profit-making dynamic. To anyone familiar with MLMs, the previous discussion (which focused so much on the fact that MLMs are "doomed by design" to reach market saturation and thus put the people who are legitimately trying to sell the product into a difficult situation) may seem to miss the point. The product or service may well be good, and it might oversaturate at some point, but let’s get serious. The product is not the incentive to join an MLM. Otherwise people might have shown an interest in selling this particular product or service before in the real world. The product is the excuse to attempt to legitimate the real money-making engine. It’s "the cover."
Intuitively, we all know what is really going on with MLMs. Just don’t use the word "pyramid"!
"You see, if you can convince ten people that everyone needs this product or service, even though they aren’t buying similar products available in the market, and they can convince ten people, and so on, that’s how you make the real money. And as long as you sell to a few people along the way, it is all legal." Maybe…
But the way to make money in all this is clearly not by only selling product, otherwise you might have shown an interest in it before, through conventional market opportunities. No, the "hook" is selling others on selling others on "the dream."
Math and Common Sense
MLMs work by geometric expansion, where you get ten to sponsor ten to sponsor ten, and so on. This is usually shown as an expanding matrix (just don’t say "pyramid"!) with corresponding kick-backs at various levels.
The problem here is one of common sense. At a mere three levels deep this would be 1,000 people. There goes the neighborhood! At six levels deep, that would be 1,000,000 people believing they can make money selling. But to whom? There goes the city! And the MLM is just getting its steam going. Think of all the meetings! Think of all the "dreams" being sold! Think of the false hopes being generated. Think of the money being lost.
It Will Fail??? It Cannot Fail???
Nothing irritates a die-hard MLMer more than the preceding argument. If you point out the absurdity, for example, that if "the pitch" at an Amway meeting were even moderately accurate, in something like 18 months Amway would be larger than the GNP of the entire United States, then listen closely for a major gear-shift: "Well, that is absurd, of course. Not everyone will succeed, and so the market will never saturate."
Well, which is it? Are we recruiting "winners" to build a real business, or planning by design to profit off of "losers" who buy into our "confidence"?
During "the pitch," anyone can make it work. "It’s the opportunity of a lifetime." "Just look at the math!" But mention the inevitable saturation and the losses this is going to cause for everyone, and then you’ll hear, "Of course it would never really work like that." "Most will fail," you will be told, "but not you, Mr. Recruit. You are a winner. I can just see it in your eyes."
If you are a starry-eyed recruit, it will grow as presented. If you are a logical skeptic, then of course it would never really work like that.
But the dialog usually never even gets to this. The fact that MLM is in a mad dash to oversupply is largely chided as mere "stinkin’ thinkin’." Expert MLMers know how to quickly deflect this issue with parable, joke, personal testimony, or some other sleight of mind.
New Solution: A Retarded MLM
Some modern incarnations of MLMs attempt to address this particular problem by limiting the number of people you can sponsor, say, to four. But the same geometric expansion problems exist; the failure mechanism has just been slowed down a bit. And now there is the added problem of even more unnecessary layers in the organization.
The claim that an MLM is merely a "common man" implementation of a normal real-world distribution channel becomes even more absurd in this case. Imagine buying a product or service in the real world and having to pay overrides and royalties to five or ten unneeded and uninvolved "distributor" layers. Would this be efficient? What value do these layers of "distributors" provide to the consumer? Is this rational? Would such a company exist long in a competitive environment?
Confidence Men and the Shadow Pyramid
The age-old technique of "con men" is to create "confidence" in some otherwise dumb idea by diversion of thought, bait, or force of personality. The victim gets confidence in a bogus plan, and, in exchange, the con man gets your money. MLMers are very high on confidence.
Since the brain inevitably intrudes itself into the delusion that an MLM could ever work, spirits drop and attitudes go sour. But this depressive state can itself be exploited. As doubts grow when the MLM does not do what recruits were first "con"fidenced to expect, then a further profit can be made keeping the confidence going against all common sense.
Thus, a parallel or "shadow" pyramid of motivational tapes, seminars, and videos emerges. These are a "must for success," and recruits are strong-armed into attending, buying, buying, and buying all the more. This motivational "shadow pyramid" further exploits the flagging recruits as they spiral inexorably into oversaturation and failure. The more they fail, the more "help" they need from those who are "successful" above them.
So, MLMs profit by conning recruits up-front with a "distributorship fee," and then make further illicit money by "confidencing" these hapless victims as they fail via the "sale" of collateral material.
Special MLM "Job" Offer: A Losing Proposition
Would a rational person, abreast of the facts, go to work selling any product or service if he or she knew that there was an open agenda to overhire sales reps for the same products in the prospective territory?
What do you think? Is this a good "opportunity" or a recipe for collective disaster?
So, as the saying goes, "Get in early!" This is a rationalization on the level of "getting in early" on the L.A. looting riots. If profit from the sale of products is fundamentally set up to fail, then the only money to be had is to "loot" others by conning them while you have the chance. Don’t miss the "opportunity," indeed!
Where is the money coming from for those at the top? From the sucker at the bottom… as in every pyramid scheme. The product could be, and lately has been, anything.
The important thing is to exploit people while the exploiting is good, if you want to make quick money at MLM.
III. Morality and Ethics: A Problem of Greed
Moral Riddle: What is Ever Present but Universally Condemned?
While issues of morality and ethics can be tricky to discuss, materialism and greed are universally condemned by every major religion, and even by most of the irreligious. This does not mean people are not materialistic or greedy; in fact, the common ethical call to not be so is strong evidence that we are.
For most people, this means if we are going to be materialistic or greedy, we would rather not be obvious about it. Thus, Madison Avenue has subtle, highly polished ways of appealing to these vices without being heavy handed. We don’t mind so much… as long as it is "veiled." This hypocrisy, while sad, is the status quo. So, Madison Avenue is trying to be ever more subtle in appearing not to be manipulating our immoral "bent" towards greed and materialism.
A Blatant Appeal to Materialism and Greed
Not so with the MLM crowd. Pick up any brochure or videotape for an MLM and you are more than likely to see a cheesy, obvious, and blatant appeal to greed and materialism. This is offensive to everyone, even die-hard materialists. Typical is an appeal to "the American dream." Usually there will be a mood shot of a large new home, a luxury car, a boat, perhaps a beautiful couple boarding a Lear jet, and so on.
While this need not necessarily be part of the MLM approach, it usually is.
Such a transparent appeal should make people suspicious. "Why the bait?" "Are they trying to ‘get my juices going’ so that my brain turns off?" "Couldn’t they show people doing more wholesome things with the money they make?" "If this is really a legitimate opportunity, why not focus on the market, product, or service instead of people reveling in lavish materialism?"
But we have reason enough to know, having read this far, why the distraction is needed. Unbridled greed suspends good judgment. When the eyes gloss over in a materialistic glaze, common sense is a stranger.
Besides being cheesy and offensive to our sensibilities, this is not a big deal for participants, right? But consider that all companies must have control over the way they are presented to the public. Thus, an MLM has the right and obligation to dictate what material is used. Otherwise any agent could say whatever he or she liked about the nature of the company, causing obvious problems. Again, it would take too much time to audit and approve each individual’s idea for a presentation where the goal is mass marketing. Using "boilerplate" presentations affords the added benefit of consistency. This is basic "information quality control."
The net effect is that the MLM rep is "stuck" with the company-approved video, brochure, and presentation outline.
"Not Me, I Would Never Stoop That Low!"
In 1991, some distributors in the MLM FUND AMERICA began to produce their own, improved recruitment material. They were summarily fired, which did not please them since many of them were founding members who had "gotten in early."
Later the same year, by the way, the founder of FUND AMERICA was arrested for having generated some 90% of revenues selling "distributorships" versus product… making it clear that this particular MLM was little more than a pyramid scheme.
Job Opening: Salesperson of Sin!
Do you want to be involved in the blatant promotion of values contrary to your belief system?
In most MLMs you will have no choice. You are going to have to sit through meeting after meeting after meeting after meeting. You are going to be "motivated" to coerce your friends and family to hear "the pitch." This is the way the "dream" is planted and fertilized. Get used to it.
If you are a materialist, you only have to get over the cheekiness of the presentation. But if you do not wish to promote such ideas, if you consider them sinful, then this puts you at the focal point of a moral dilemma. Do you wish to be a salesperson for materialism?
Lack of Information Quality Control: An MLM Incentive?
On the flip-side of the issue of being stuck with the recruitment "pitch" is the fact that the MLM organization is otherwise loose, to say the least. This is part of the appeal to many, to "be your own boss."
But in practice this leads to loony product claims, many of which are deceptive and some of which can be positively dangerous.
Hyperbole is a given in an MLM. When inexperienced salespeople are turned loose to sell on full commission without supervision or accountability, what else could happen?
Since MLM organizations are notoriously flash-in-the-pan, one has to wonder why any new company would choose this flawed marketing technique. Perhaps one of the things to consider is that the MLM organization can effectively skirt the Federal Trade Commission by using word-of-mouth testimonials, supposed "studies" done by scientists, fabricated endorsements, rumors and other misrepresentations that would never be allowed to see the light of day in the real world of product promotion, shady as it is.
Thus, MLM has evolved into a "niche": it can be used to sell products that could not be sold any other way. An MLM is a way to get undue credibility by exploiting people’s personal friendships and relationships via "networking." This is an intrinsic moral difficulty with MLMs that will be expanded in the last section.
MLM Sales Technique: Rumors, Slander, Defamation
Hyperbole is not limited merely to product claims, however. When MLMers turn to their competitors it can get ugly indeed. Some of the most outlandish rumors of modern history can be traced to MLMs. In recent years, for example, the international rumor that the president of a major real-world corporation was a Satanist, and that the logo of his company contained occult symbols, turned out to have a commercial motive and was traced to specific Amway distributors. These were successfully sued in 1991, but the rumor persists. And how much else of the MLM negative "sales pitch" is fabrication or outright lie? Not all the negative selling claims are as scandalous or widespread as the previous example, but the MLM culture produces so much of this stuff it would be hard to prosecute it all.
Again, what else could be expected from inexperienced salespeople thrown into an oversaturated sales market on full commission and no accountability?
Negative selling is not unique to MLMs, but MLMs have a legacy of fostering a culture of credulity, of bizarre "gossip-as-fact." After all, this is a friend telling me this!
Telling lies about people or groups is slander. Systemic and malicious slander is illegal in most civilized countries. Slander is a sin listed next to murder and adultery in Biblical texts. But how will you know when you become the slanderer by repeating what you heard in an MLM meeting?
Great Men?
Another morally questionable practice that is not intrinsic to MLMs, but seems axiomatic, is the pent-up idolatry of the leaders.
In FUND AMERICA, the "approved materials" showed what a great man the founder was, depicted the depth of his management experience, showed him in mood shots, etc. It is easy to swoon in admiration of such a powerful, visionary man, dedicated to bringing this wonderful opportunity to common Americans like us.
It turned out he was a criminal fugitive from Australia, where he had been run out of town for doing the same.
But you would never guess it from the company material. A great man.
There are more than a few MLM "executives" like this who will pop up tomorrow in the MLM du jour. MLM exploitation can be very profitable and the jail sentences light. Let the MLM "dream" buyer beware.
I have been taken to task for making this point too strongly–and do not wish to imply that all MLM leaders have criminal records–but it does pay to do some research here. Are the idols you are being asked to worship in MLM worthy of respect, or contempt? Have they been prosecuted or sued for exploiting people in the past? Have they done prison time?
Do not expect to hear the full truth in the MLM video.
Pride and the Secret Closet: Vanity and the Way MLMs Grow
"Mr. Prospect, now you aren’t required to buy more than three product units, but why bother joining unless you plan to succeed? Besides, all of our products are 100% money back guaranteed."
"Hmmm… To ask for a refund, then, is to admit defeat. Others appear to be doing O.K. at this. I’m no failure! Perhaps I should go to another motivational seminar or strong-arm and alienate one more friend to join. I wasn’t fooled! I’m no failure!"
So, the "inventory" and "recruitment kits," never viable, collect dust. They become a pile in the back closet or attic, a trophy to pride being unable to admit that greed seized the moment.
Back to the Pyramids: Innovative Marketing or Organized Crime?
It is generally agreed that to mislead people in order to get their money is morally reprehensible. It is labeled "theft" or "fraud," and those who do it should be punished. No one is naive enough to suggest that you can’t make money at it. Crime can pay, at least temporarily.
Pyramid schemes are illegal. They are illegal because they are exploitative and dishonest. They exploit the most vulnerable of people: the desperate, the out-of-work, the ignorant. Those who start and practice such fraud, should, and increasingly are, being punished for their crimes.
But add a product for cover, and call it an MLM, and people are willing to swallow its legality. Is this true? Really? Who says so?
The Feds versus the MLM Gang: The Other Side of the Story
It is a fact that a few large MLMs have survived against the best efforts of law enforcement officials to shut them down, spending millions of dollars to protect, lobby, and insulate themselves. But the same could be said for any organized crime. It is difficult to stop once it becomes so large.
And MLMs look so legitimate to the public, so decent. So many nice people are involved. Surely, it can’t be illegal! The people lower down may even defend the very organization that is robbing them, hoping that they might get their chance to make "the big money" later.
But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Unless it is an MLM, and then it is NOT a pyramid.
The Feds generally see it differently… when the ML (multi-level) aspect begins to eclipse the M (marketing) of products or services.
People can make money in an MLM, undeniably. The moral issue is: Where is the money coming from? Selling product? Then why not sell the same product in the "real world"?
But everyone knows that the real incentive is the pyramid aspect, and the product just the excuse to make it legal, or at least the MLM promoter would like you to believe it is legal.
The Mob and the MLM: A Stretched Analogy?
Talk to a mobster, and he will tell you that he is "merely misunderstood in his benevolent intentions." "We are just trying to ‘build our business.’" "It’s all a conspiracy to make us look bad." "The Feds are out to get us because they are jealous or afraid of our new way of life." "Why, look at all the good we do!" "We are looking more legitimate every day." "Here’s a statement from a famous DA that the Mob is really a good organization and no harm ever comes from it." "We’ve even got a minister to endorse us now!"
Propaganda and MLM Expansion
The MLMers of the new millennium are starting to sound a lot like the gangsters of yesteryear. In an era where management science and the law generally condemn MLM, they’ve "got their own experts," from academia or law, who are "on the payroll." Confidence, remember, is key.
Regardless of all the vehement denials, MLMs are all to some extent pyramid schemes, and pyramid schemes are illegal. Sure, some are "getting away with it," but so did the Mafia for decades. It is hard to stop a juggernaut, especially one that has taken such pains to look legitimate and misunderstood, that is highly organized, and that has so much money from its victims to propagandize, lobby, and defend itself. And so the exploitation goes on.
If these guys show up in your neighborhood, you are either "in" or "out," family or Target, friend or foe. Suspicion rules the day; everyone has an "angle"; greed supplants innocence. The "neighborhood" is turned into a marketplace, and may never recover from the blow.
The ethical questions remain: Are MLMs a morally acceptable way to make money? Are they–and will they continue to be–legitimate?
MLM Proselytizing: Beneath Begging?
If money is needed that badly, why not simply ask friends and family for help rather than taking money from them under false pretenses–and also selling them a bill of goods? By "sponsoring" them, you have not only conned them and profited at their expense, you have made them feel like losers, since they are not able to make a success of the hopeless MLM concept.
Once seen, only the morally blind, or consciously criminal, could continue in such a "business."
But wait, perhaps you could recruit… your mother!
Moral Inventory
By way of review, the prospective MLM initiate has to face and resolve these ethical issues:
1. Do I want to be involved in encouraging people to be more materialistic?
2. Do I want to sell a product that perhaps couldn’t be sold any other way?
3. Do I want to be a part of an enterprise famous for slander, libel, and rumor?
4. Do I want to be a part of a company that may employ criminals as marketing experts?
5. Do I want to make money off my ability to convince people that an unworkable marketing system is viable?
6. Do I want to be known among my friends and family as a person who tried to con people with a thinly veiled pyramid scheme?
If you can answer these questions "yes," training is available… But remember that God is watching, even if you never get "successful" enough for the Feds to notice you.
IV. Relationship Issues: An Experiential Problem
Learning the Hard Way
MLMs grow by exploiting people’s relationships. If you are going to be in an MLM, you swallow hard and accept this as part of "building your business." This is "networking." But to those not "in" the MLM, it seems as if friendship is merely a pretext for phoniness, friendliness is suspected as prospecting, and so on. There is no middle ground here, try as you might.
While this is the most difficult point to make, it is perhaps the most important. Anyone who has any experience with an MLM has strong feelings, either for or against, and this is the problem. Polarization runs deep.
High-pressure Selling — Reserved for Pyramids Only
When it comes to selling product, MLM sales reps are probably no more aggressive or obnoxious than ordinary salespeople. Since most are not salespeople by nature, and it is characteristic that MLMs attract few people with any experience selling this particular product or service, they usually sell through pre-fab "parties" or home "demos." Thus, sales pressure is exerted by situation, if at all.
It should be noted that when selling product, the only distinction from a real-world business is the possibility for deception due to the "looseness" of the MLM and the incentive to exaggerate claims without any accountability. Other than this, selling product in an MLM is fairly similar to selling any product in the real world.
But when it comes to getting you "signed up" as a "distributor," the MLMers get pushy and deceptive beyond the boundaries of polite social norms.
Remember, an MLM is defined by its rewarding people to recruit others in multiple levels.
"Mother, Let Me Tell You About a Fantastic Opportunity…"
Even ex-accountants are willing to practice the crudest of high-pressure selling tactics, at least when it comes to "signing people up." The end justifies the means, when it comes to getting people to come to the "meetings," where the objective is to get a materialism frenzy going at high pitch through a slick speaker or video. The reasons for this "confidence building" should be obvious by now, but here we are considering the relationship cost associated with the "success" of the MLM.
The above title is meant to be absurd. Most people, no matter how jaded, would not foist such a con on their own mothers. Even if people don’t know the specifics of what is wrong with MLMs, intuition often warns us: "Don’t tamper with that relationship." The first marks for recruitment are the gullible, or the "expendable" friends. But successive moral compromise, experience, and desperation… may yet lead to "good old Mom."
Never Admit You Are Wrong
Many have left high-paying jobs to "pursue their dreams" in an MLM. Having been conned so dramatically, they do not easily admit defeat. It seems easier to cling to the bad dream in an increasing cycle of desperation to make the MLM work against all odds. "Losers" at the bottom congregate into support groups, perhaps spinning-off another MLM where they can be "boss."
There is an undeniable camaraderie among MLMers. But for everyone else, "there goes the neighborhood." It is saddening to see people being encouraged against all instinct and common sense to chase after an illusory "pot of gold," but what can be done?
Counting the Cost: The First Church of MLM
Many readers will share the experience of observing MLMs divide families, friends, churches, and civic groups. Lifelong friends are now "prospects." The neighborhood is now "a market." Motives change, suspicions rise, divisions form. The question is begged: "Is it worth it?"
Especially nasty is the church situation. Will the pastor join? If not, he will take a dim view of MLM proselytizing at church functions; animosity will rise, factions will form. You are either "in" or out. If the pastor joins, then those who are not "in" will feel a little uncomfortable in this church.
A church (or any community group) can be easily torpedoed by an MLM.
Trust Your Instincts?
For most people, thankfully, the MLM experience usually ends in very quick financial failure and is then sidelined. Two possible responses are: 1) being embarrassed about participation, or 2) becoming even more intractable when the MLM has failed. You will find the latter chasing after the latest "get rich quick" scheme with similar results. "If we could have just sponsored so and so–they have so many friends–we would have made it."
Thus, there is reason for the "bad taste" most people have for MLMs. By instinct if not experience or insight, we wince at the thought of what we know will follow in the wake of an MLM. Relationships strained, factions formed, deception, manipulation, greed, loss, a closet full of videotapes, brochures, and useless inventory that "everybody wants."
Disease Alert: Beware of MLM Blindness
Apparently, it is difficult for gung-ho MLMers to see how they look from the outside. They can watch lifelong friendships unravel, churches and civic groups poisoned, the avoidance of friends and family, etc., and never see that MLM was the cause.
If you try to point this pathology out, you are treated as if you have attacked the very gospel! Perhaps for some, the MLM approach is a new gospel?
They will claim to have made "new friends," most of which are MLMers or new acquaintances who could be considered "future prospects." The shallowness of these "new friends," the stilted conversations among the "old friends," and the embarrassment, in general, for what seems clear to everyone but the MLMer go unnoticed. Callousness sets in; standards are lowered.
Of course, it could be pointed out that this might have happened anyway. Perhaps the die-hard MLMers would have ruined their friendships anyway in some other non-MLM business failure. Is the MLM really the cause, or just the vehicle?
Business failure of any type is traumatic on the relationships involved, but in most small businesses there is at least the chance of success. And this is never the case in an MLM, unless "success" can be defined as profiting off of the failures of others.
Non-MLM real-world businesses that offer products of interest to friends, family, etc., such as insurance agents and small retail shop owners, seem to be more circumspect in dealing with personal relationships in all but a few rare (and grievous) cases. But the MLMer is recognizable by duplicity of friendship overtures, overbearing glad-handing, full-time prospecting, outrageous initial deception, and social callousness. This is no accident, but rather sheer desperation. How could it be otherwise? For the active MLMer is in a hopeless bear trap: with hubris as one steel jaw and oversaturation the other.
And so the MLM relationship "bull" tramples through the relationship "china closet," blindly ruining fragile and valuable things. Some never pull out of this, figuring the coldness they experience in their emotional lives is due to some other cause than their MLM participation.
The Aftermath
One can’t help but wish that the "neighborhood" could be like it once was. But an MLM storm has blown through, ruining valuable relationships with no regret or conscience. And brace yourself, another one is coming. Perhaps it is in that smiling face approaching you, or in that nice letter you just received from a "friend"?
What goes unnoticed to the MLMer is that when the neighborhood is turned into a marketplace, something precious is lost… which is not easily regained.
This aspect of the MLM experience should not be underestimated, and the reflective reader would do well to think twice about the value of friends, family, community, and church fellowship before joining or continuing in an MLM.
Summary of What’s Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing
1. MLMs are "doomed by design" to recruit too many salespeople, who in turn will then attempt to recruit even more salespeople, ad infinitum.
2. For many, the real attraction of involvement in multi-level marketing is the thinly veiled pyramid con-scheme made quasi-legal by the presence of a product or service.
3. The ethical concessions necessary to be "successful" in many MLM companies are stark and difficult to deal with for most people.
4. Friends and family should be treated as such, and not as "marks" for exploitation.
It is hoped that by clearly pointing out "What is Wrong With Multi-Level Marketing" that many might be spared the inherent and associative pitfalls by avoiding the practice.
As well, for those who insist on practicing MLM, it is hoped that this analysis will serve as a handy framework of problem areas to be avoided if and where this is possible.
Internet Links for Further Anti-MLM Research & Information
E-Mail examples, Frequently Asked Questions, Additional Points and Rebuttals section at http://www.vandruff.com/mlm_FAQ.html E-Mail the author of this article, Dean Van Druff, at end of this section.
The Pyramid-Scheme-Alert (PSA) organization offers consumer information on MLMs, news of legal cases, analytical tools, insightful articles, and an opportunity to effect new laws and social change by membership and contribution. You can do your own evaluation of any MLM program or suspected pyramid scheme.
False Profits, a book exposing how MLM participation can commandeer and derail people’s religious ideals, has a web site at http://www.FalseProfits.com which includes a sample Chapter of the book and many other excellent articles concerning the legality of MLM.
A Christian businesswoman, Athena Dean, exposes the spiritual cost and compromise of MLM proselytizing within the church in her books "Consumed by Success" and "All that glitters is not God — Breaking free from the sweet deceit of MLM," available at http://www.winepressbooks.com
A transcript of Dateline MSCNBC’s expose in 2004 on Amway / Quixtar.
Ami Chen Mills "Shaking the Money Tree"
is fascinating journalism that captures the "stink" of MLM pathology and culture most vividly. Hold your nose, and dive into major deja-vu at
http://www.metroactive.com/papers/
metro/
10.03.96/cover/multilevel-9640.html
FTC warnings on MLM chicanery at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/
alerts/lotionalrt.htm and http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/
invest/mlm.htm, with an excellent legal and historical overview at http://www.ftc.gov/speeches/other/
dvimf16.htm
US Government USPS on Employment
Schemes, including Distributorship and Franchise Fraud, Phony Job Opportunities,
and Multi-Level Marketing at http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/
inspect/emplmenu.htm,
or direct to the MLM warning at http://www.usps.gov/websites/depart/
inspect/pyramid.htm
The Better Business Bureau (BBB) has Multi-Level Marketing Scam Alerts at http://www.bbb.com/alerts. This page has become cluttered, so you might want to click
on SEARCH and then type in "pyramid" or
"multi level marketing".
Forbes Magazine’s article on Herbalife has graphs that show the "by design" MLM
balloon burst, at http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1997/
1020/6009043a.html
Inc. Magazine’s Norm Brodsky gives us "Multilevel Mischief" which depicts how
MLMs churn through human relationships at http://www.inc.com/magazine/19980601
/941.html
"MLM Survivor.com" has some up-to-date headlines on the latest MLM lawsuits and legal actions by State and Federal law enforcement at http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/.
Dr. Jon Taylor’s website with surveys
of MLM tax preparers, a comparative
analysis between MLM and illegal pyramid schemes, consumer protection guides,
"MLM numbers - the odds of success", information for law enforcement,
warning to consumers and regulators
in Asia and other countries, a history
of MLM, actions that can be taken by
victims of MLM, and humor and satire. http://www.mlm-thetruth.com
The Quatloos fraud & scam site tackles MLM at http://www.quatloos.com/mlm/mlm.htm
The Pinking Shears, a Mary Kay discussion and recovery website, is at http://www.thepinkingshears.org
Dr. Stephen Barrett explores the risks of medical products being marketed with MLM at http://www.quackwatch.com/
01QuackeryRelatedTopics/mlm.html. Specific examples are given.
Eli Mantel’s "Cagey Consumer" has a great set of research links and concise position statements at http://www.geocities.com/
WallStreet/5395/mlminfo.html
Eric Scheibeler, a high-level MLM’r turned whistle blower, is offering his book
"Merchants of Deception" at http://www.merchantsofdeception.com
/purpose.html
Peter Blood’s personal observations from Australia, after decades of experience
with MLM, at http://www.themlmfile.com
For articles on "MLM Harassment" at work, as well as postings on Amway and MLM in General, see The Skeptic’s Dictionary at: http://skepdic.com/mlmhar.html
For a humorous lampoon of some of the goofy products often peddled via MLM, see "The Laundry Disk 2000" Website at http://www.worldwidescam.com
Robert L. Fitzpatrick’s "The 10 Big Lies
of MLM" is posted at http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/fitzpatrick.htm
A MLM Lawyer gives an opinion on what constitutes a "legal" MLM scheme in the US at http://mlmatty.com
Consider Procter & Gamble’s perspective on the Amway "Satan Rumor".
For a sampling of lucid reformers
within the MLM industry (a most welcome and cathartic trend) see: 1) "Where Have All the Products Gone" by Gerald Nehra at http://mlmstartup.com/articles
/ramble.htm; 2) A lament of the soaring prices and flimflam nature of a few too many modern MLM products by Leonard Clements at http://www.marketwaveinc.com
/articles/MLMProducts.asp.
As a closing parable - if you are not already familiar with it - please click here to read a synopsis of Hans Christian Andersen’s "The Emperor’s New Clothes".
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Posted Friday March 17, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida & Amigo VIII
This part is directed to MLM distributors who feel the urge to comment.
Since I have deleted all (31 42 as of today) but one of their comments (This one I left to make my point), for they seem to lack the general ability to distinguish fact from opinion, science from fiction, and research from hearsay.
To begin - here’s the definition of fact:
Fact
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A Fact is any of the following:
* Something actual as opposed to invented.
* Something concrete used as a basis for further interpretation.
* Information about a particular subject.
* Something known to be the case.
* Something in the world that makes a true statement true.
Statements of fact
A statement of fact or a factual claim is a statement that is presented as an accurate representation of a situation, event, or condition, and that is capable of being either proved or disproved.
If a factual claim is incorrect, then it is called a mistake or an error (if the person making the statement believed it to be correct) or a lie (if the person making the statement did not believe it). A factual claim shown to be correct is a fact. A factual claim that was believed to be true may later shown to be false (disproved), and a factual claim believed to have been disproved may later shown to be true.
A belief that cannot be proved or disproved is an opinion.
What we get from these MLM marketers - may it be Noni or Mona Vie are not facts.
What we get are opinions, speculations and wishful thinking.
What looks fact like is in all cases information, that does not really apply to the product directly.
Just take the Açai Berry Hype of Mona Vie as an example.
Fact: The Açai Berry (along with many other fruits) is a valuable food source and contains healthy ingredients.
Wishful thinking: Mona Vie equals the Açai Berry
Monarch Health Sciences has released only one information on the ingredients of Mona Vie.
It is composed of 19 Fruits and has artificially
added Celadrine and Glucosamine in it’s Active Version.
That’s pretty vague - and so is ALL the information that you can gather on official websites and sources. It appears that the Maker of Mona Vie deliberately avoids to be factual about the product.
The only official information that has been released and that has to be accurate by law is the nutrition chart. And that is - if anything -
sobering - for it doesn’t show anything of value
as an ingredient. 2% of the needed daily amount of Vitamin C and Iron hardly qualifies as being valuable.
That - Ladies and Gentlemen is a fact. Everything else I heard and saw during the 3 weeks I researched the products is opinion, hearsay, wishful thinking, fiction or put simply
lies.
A Source, paid for a statement does not constitute or establish facts. So - just for your general information. Even if it were to be a highly regarded scientist that speaks out on behalf of Mona Vie - his/her statements can NOT be considered facts. What credence has a paid supporter? Not much! Period.
Results of tests and studies made on ingredients of a fruit do not qualify to be attributed to the product as a whole.
Returning to an example I used earlier - you wouldn’t accept me stating, that eating Almonds will kill you (Allergies not withstanding
).Though theoretically possible - practically the amount of cyanide is a mere trace amount, that will have no influence what so ever.
It is true however, that if I extract the cyanide from the almond, and ingest a sufficient amount of it - it will kill me.
But that is exactly what you are doing! Your claims are not a bit more accurate, then a statement that Almonds will kill you.
So please! Do not invite me to look at yet another cloned Mona Vie site, to "learn" about the FACTS.
There are none. I already looked - thank you!
Don’t reference Oprah, so that I will concede by the mere mentioning of her name, because I won’t. Not that I don’t like her, but my respect for her as a renown scientist is fairly limited. And since Small talk is not an ingredient of Fruit Juices - I am sorry to state that I will not accept any more Oprah references.
And yes - I read Dr. Perricones Super Food
statement. about the Açai Berry.
But if you quote Dr. Perricone, then I recommend, that you quote him properly and complete, since we’re talking Fruit Juices…
It is correct that he regards the Açai berry as a top food - but at the same tame, he categorizes fruit juices to be at the very bottom of the food chain - according to him a fruit juice is proud member of the "Worst Foods" group.
Look at that! Bummer, huh?
Present facts, that I’m not yet aware of and have not yet mentioned. And with facts I mean something, an independent source has come up with - a source that has no stake in the outcome of a study either way.
I listen to facts and solid arguments. My mindset is not etched in stone - and if you deliver proof to your belief that Mona Vie, Xango, Amigo, Noni or Mona Vie is what you say it is - maybe I buy!
But as of today I haven’t been able to dig up one single solid fact, that supports, what Fruit Juice distributors claim.
Do not use testimonials to try to make your point. Even though I know there are genuine testimonials out there - I also know that many of those you see on websites are fabricated and simply made up! That source is so tainted that it has lost it value entirely.
There is however one form of testimonial I’d be willing to accept. If certain conditions are met:
* No compensation in ANY form has changed hands
* Documented case with photos and medical records
* Participants are revealed and can be contacted for an interview
* Attending physician is made available
for a comment.
Anything less then that is beyond the point. If I have no way of verifying it - I really don’t need it.
Being pretty sure, not to receive any of that - I’m still not ready to give up. I have no stake in this matter either way - and if at the end of the day it turns out that these fruit juices are what they they claim to be - it’ll be fine by me.
But as of now - if it walks like a duck, smells like a duck, tastes like a duck - it probably is…
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Reposted w/o permission
Last edited:
- Joined
- 23 January 2001
- Messages
- 1,809
MonaVie Exposé Conclusion (Long)
Continued from previous post.
I am not the author of this material - so don't shoot the messenger. The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
Reposted from a now defunct blog (w/o permission). If the owner of this content would like this post to be removed, please let me know, and I will take it down immediately.
Reposted material begins here:
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Posted Saturday March 18, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida IX
Next to my last article on the matter I’d like to focus on a point in all of these MLM systems, that I feel is extremely discomforting - and after the downfall of yet another MLM system definitely will be for the participants.
And that is the ethical aspect of this whole enchilada. Not withstanding the off chance of finding a genuinely product in the midst of so many "false prophet products" the ethical shortcuts, that are being taken in those systems do bother me enough to have spent a considerable amount of time to research the matter.
For starters there is the product. A fruit Juice with healing powers beyond anything the world has ever seen. Unique and without comparison.
Unequalled and unparalleled.
Just one snag.
There are several of them!
Claiming their uniqueness and every once in a while a new one joins - like March 1st the Amigo Health promise business opportunity.
My - is THAT confusing. Or not.
What all of them actually have in common are their outlandish claims of health benefits, equally outlandish pricing - and an equally considerably fear to compete out in the open!
All of them equally don’t like to see you as a customer, but like you to do their work for them and peddle their product.
Neither one of them can actually back up their claims with anything other then indirect and very thin statements of "studies" on one or the other ingredient of theirs.
To make my point I will quote a passage from
Dr. Ralph Moss most interesting article
on http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm
that deals with XanGo.
Dr. Ralph Moss - Reality Check
So it is high time for a reality check. Has mangosteen really been thoroughly studied in terms of its effect on cancer and a host of other diseases? Or is this simply a wild extrapolation driven by strong commercial motives?
Dr. Templeman refers to 44 scientific publications on this topic but there are just 29 articles on the topic of Garcinia mangostana in PubMed, the US National Library of Medicine database of 14+ million citations. A total of four of these studies relate to cancer. In one test tube experiment it was shown that a xanthone found in mangosteen kills cancer cells as effectively as many chemotherapeutic drugs. It also appears (on the basis of limited data) that compounds found abundantly in mangosteen can inhibit the harmful Cox 1 and Cox 2 enzymes, and can also induce programmed cell death (apoptosis) in aberrant cells (Ho 2002). Mangosteen thus joins a fairly long list of naturally derived compounds that might potentially have some anticancer activity.
These 29 articles do not constitute a wealth of data. For example, by contrast, PubMed lists over 2,300 articles on the topic of vitamin C and cancer, 125 of which refer to clinical trials. There are a similar number of studies on vitamin E and cancer. There are 835 studies of melatonin and cancer, and a truly impressive 16,000 on polysaccharides and cancer, including 536 clinical trials and 277 randomized controlled trials (RCTs).
Yet, we’re to believe that four test-tube experiments constitute - to quote the aforementioned Dr. Templeman - "mountains of evidence" on the benefits of XanGo.
According to the promotional website of one of XanGo’s many "independent distributors" at http://bjsbytes.com/Xango/Questions.htm:
"…much of the science behind xanthones is predominantly available to those in the medical community until recently. Many of the clinical studies on xanthones have been done in universities and testing facilities throughout Asia and have recently started to catch the attention of Western researchers."
But is this true? Reputable researchers the world over, including those in Asia, publish in PubMed-listed journals. For example there are over 63,000 articles on cancer in PubMed in the Japanese language. Yet despite the website’s misleading talk about "clinical studies," PubMed does not contain a single clinical trial of mangosteen in the treatment of cancer, or any other disease. Perhaps these promoters don’t realize that a clinical study is not something done in a laboratory, but a study that by definition is carried out on living patients. Laboratory studies on cell lines or even animals do not qualify for the title ‘clinical study’.
Thus, despite what you may read at any one of those 21,000 promotional websites, very little scientific evidence exists concerning mangosteen’s anticancer activity in humans.
In my opinion, what we have here is simply an overpriced fruit drink. Fruit drinks are often healthful beverages. But the only reason I can see that the promoters of mangosteen can get away with charging $37 for this product is that they are playing on patients’ hopes and fears in a cynical way. Without the health claims, open or implied, the product could only be sold for at most $5 or $6 (which, for example, is the cost of antioxidant-rich pomegranate juice).
The mangosteen phenomenon is a reprise of the aloe vera, gingko biloba, and especially the noni juice story, complete with exaggerated claims for the health benefits of an exotic fruit. It should come as no surprise that both the President and the Chief Financial Officer of Xango once worked for Morinda (now called Tahitian Noni International).
Compounds found in plants have long been of great interest to cancer researchers. We must never forget that about one-fifth of all chemotherapeutic agents (including Vincristine, Vinblastine, Etoposide, Teniposide, and Taxol) are ultimately derived from plant sources. Many of these took a long time to pass through the regulatory process, since serious research into botanical medicine often goes begging for financial and intellectual support. Starved of funds in this way, the riches of the natural world are often neglected by mainstream science, only to be plundered by less scrupulous organizations. The patient loses twice - by not having the fruits of serious research and by being deceived by slick operators posing as friends and benefactors. Some may even opt for unproven miracle juices in lieu of more certain therapies that might save their lives.
When it comes to cancer, we truly live in a topsy-turvy world.
Hard to say that any better.
But the non existing validity of all claims made by all these products is only one part.
They deliberately Target even those that even modern medicine can hardly help. As if these people hadn’t been through enough - they get their hopes high and their bank accounts cleared out for nothing but useless sugarwater.
And it still doesn’t stop there.
These MLM systems know why they shy away from real and open competition. Using their backdoor approach they automatically inherit the trust you meet your friends with - because that’s the way their business spreads and touches even the most remote regions.
Once John Smith has sprung the trap and is caught - who is he going to approach? Not someone right of the street - nah.
The way of least resistance - friends and family.
And so the product that claims to heal it - takes on the characteristics of cancer and spreads.
Silently and with little resistance.
Making the trust of family and friendship their own - these systems are worse then cancer.
Since the supply of new "victims" for the proud distributor dissipates pretty fast distributors are stuck with their obligation of monthly purchases, pressured by their peers, people they brought into the "business" start complaining, it turns out that the product not real does what it promises, the money potential that looked so promising at the beginning never materializes and at the end of the day families find themselves not only fighting, but also considerably worse off, then they were before.
Is it fair to call that unethical? I believe so. There are too many things in the setup of these MLM’s that indicate, that it has little to do with the product itself. How else would you explain,
that no effort is made at all on the manufacturer’s side to establish credence for the product by conducting medical studies and clinical trials? Why else would they rely on their distributors to spread the word of unheard healing abilities - while they themselves cover their behind with statements like:
"This product is not intended to diagnose, treat cure or prevent any disease."
That’s quite different from the messianic statements we hear from their sales force. Not a minute goes by without someone mentioning what it is good for, what it heals and what person just rose from his wheelchair to walk again.
And it is so simple. Actually - the above statement is the most honest statement that you are ever going to hear from them.
They want their honey bees to recruit new ones, and they want their people to lock themselves in automatic shipments, buying useless, high gloss advertising material, expensive books and an extremely overprized product. They profit on everything. As if the Amway scandal never happened - they march on with the same scheme and their followers stick on the fly trap.
And how do I dare to state that this wonder product is overprized? It’s easy. People are being told that the Açai Berry is rare, extremely expensive, hard to harvest and highly perishable.
Hmm… And how come, that e.g. the product Açai Pure - where the Açai Berry is the sole fruit, being used (not mixed with low cost Cranberry and other juices) is being sold for a fraction of Mona Vie - to be precise for 8.2% of Mona Vie’s price.
Or to make it even more apparent - for one bottle of Mona Vie you receive 12 bottles Açai Pure. And to top that - other then the expensive product - the cheap one actually has in it what the expensive one promises. Omega Fats, Fibers, Proteins, multiple Vitamins and Minerals.
It is actually embarrassing to see that comparison - but that doesn’t seem to phase any distributor. Why? Because they don’t look. They are so lulled in by the powerful propaganda of these Schemes, the peer pressure deprives them of common sense..
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Posted Wednesday March 22, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida, Amigo X
The conclusion:
In this article series I did an examination of
a system and it’s products and I did share my findings.
I don’t claim being a scientist, a health expert or any other top of the shelf thinker.
What I claim, look for and ask for is common sense. And just that did it to me - it made me
sit down on my butt and start some research to look closer on the subject at hand - since my gut told me almost instantly, that something’s not right about it.
That - and that alone is the reason and motivation for me to undertake this little excursion.
Before I recapitulate the results - here are some issues I’d like to address:
For one - I concentrated on 4 products:
Noni, XanGo, Mona Vie and Fruta Vida.
There are more of those - and much more similar MLM products out there - in form of pills and creams and so on.
I started out with looking into Mona Vie - and soon it became obvious - that the above mentioned products all use almost identical structures, claims, pricing and distribution - so that it relatively fair to draw conclusions from one to another product.
I can already hear the complaints of either product supporter - but the fact is - the similarities are overwhelming -the scientific proof for the potency of any of these products is
more than underwhelming - it is non - existent.
So when mostly talking about Mona Vie, then only to illustrate - because despite different
main ingredients - the claims, testimonials, methods and structures are so similar, that even a distributor couldn’t tell them apart, if the names weren’t mentioned.
And here’s the recap of my findings:
All products mentioned are fruit juice mixings, with little to no beneficiary ingredients, that the manufacturer actually can list on the nutrition charts. A hardcore supporter might say - well they are in it anyway - they are just not listed - but be serious.
If you have such revolutionary products with such a mass of good ingredients - how irrational would it be - not to show off with them?
That’s like a BMW not boasting with the brand new V12 engine that it has.
The solution for that conundrum however is a very simple one. The concentration of these beneficiary ingredients is so low that they tend towards zero, when measured.
How bad would it look if they had to provide e.g. the value for Omega 9 fats as let’s say 0.004mg?
The Vitamin C and Iron content of Mona Vie’s label is already pitiful enough - with a mere 2%
of the daily requirements of a regular 2000 calorie diet.
To reach your daily input with Mona Vie you’d have to ingest 1¼litre or almost 2 bottle with a price tag (reg salesprice) of $ 66.50.
Now why is that? According to the european commission of food, that examined over 20 varieties of Noni Juices - they are highly diluted - they contain in average 80% water.
Now Mona Vie is a direct descendent of Noni - did they change their formula? Naaah - why would they? Noni was successful the way it was,
so why change a winning horse? The earlier mentioned statement of a former Mona Vie distributor, who claimed to having ordered an analysis of Mona Vie, that showed the exact same results seems to support that. But I don’t
want to stake my findings on this - but rather on those of the European counterpart of the US FDA.
Now - given that high of a dilution, plus adding the considerable amount of sugar (10 - 16%) for all four juices - there is simply not enough left to provide mentionable results.
What does that tell us at the end of the day?
One thing is for sure - all 4 manufacturers are not really into providing us with the health wonder from the Amazon or from wherever the exotic fruits may come from - and the ultimate reasoning becomes obvious as well. Costs.
The lower the costs - the bigger the margins.
And since these products are sold for about 10 times of what comparable real market products cost - these margins are phenomenal.
Not so much for the distributor and even less for the consumer - but the more for the company.
With a total production cost of max.
$ 1.50/bottle, which is a fairly high estimate, these companies can afford to spend double or triple of that on marketing and product launch and still have windfall earnings with each and every bottle sold.
So much to the health part, what the actual ingredients is concerned.
But what about the abundance of testimonials?
It is pretty much established, that some testimonials are fabricated. …see Part III
And that - at the end of the day renders the
totality pretty much useless - because how can I trust them, after knowing that there are fabricated ones around?
Although I believe that some people do actually feel an improvement or better - but are these effects really an effect of the product, or are they a mere placebo effect, that can be as genuine as the real deal? I believe the latter to be the case, especially knowing how immense the peer pressure in these organizations is - might it be for positive or negative impact. We all are herd animals - and we all feel better doing and liking what the majority does as compared to going our own way - that’s just how it is.
It can lead to good things - like the Monday marches in East Germany that ultimately tore down the Berlin Wall - or it can lead to bad things like mass hysteria (remember the airing of the “War of the Worlds” radio show) or lynch justice.
Individually none of the participants of these events would have acted that way - it was the mass reaction that triggered an unusual behavior, that eliminates common sense and usually exercised caution.
Next step is the look at the MLM system.
I pretty much know, that I’m not alone, when I find it extremely odd, that I have to pay someone, to sell his products, and that I actually have to commit to monthly purchase of product as well, to be able to keep selling it. I also find it very peculiar, that I have to pay for marketing material, seminars - that I am going to be pressured in buying and attending - friendly, but nevertheless somewhat pressured. And the crown jewel of oddities is the fact that my purpose as a distributor isn’t about selling the product, but to recruit people, to recruit people.
Hmm - I have the best and healthiest of products - and it isn’t about it. Weird.
But it is even more weird that instead of creating a base of loyal product users and trying to provide as much as possible of this wonder product - I am actually going to hire my direct competition.
That’s not only weird - that’s against the natural instinct of any genuine sales philosophy.
But still - thousands of people sign up…
Let me see - if I got all of that right.
I have a product that is extremely expensive, yet has nothing to show for. Everybody just has to take a bottle in his end - turn it , read the label and compare that with ordinary 90% cheaper juices in a supermarket.
And I have to pay in order to hire my own competition.
So how come - anyone signs up in the first place? Greed is the most probable cause, followed closely by the fact, that the product and system aren’t introduced by a pamphlet or an anonymous sales person. No people are sucked into it by the same people they trust the most - friends and family. And these two things
are those which make these houses of cards work.
You’re led into meetings, where “stars” of the system boast with their money and earnings - testimonials are delivered to boast the product,
an cheery and jubilant atmosphere of power, money and positive outlook clouds common sense so much, that the oddities, that I mentioned are completely ignored and caution is thrown out the window.
Despite simple mathematics, that render the
basics of a MLM system utterly impossible - even people with business degrees fall for it.
Simple Math is telling us that a model that states, that a system, starting out with one person, that hires two under him and so on - will cover the entire population of the US in just 30 steps down the line.
Why does it work? Because the initial numbers are so neat, so easy and understandable. It’s all about two or three people - you hire two - they hire two - no one actually takes a further step to see how fast these numbers really add up to sums, that make success for all virtually impossible.
There are so many weak points in the model that I was flabbergasted, that anyone actually could take them serious - there’s not only the mathematical improbability for success - there are several more points that raise red flags.
The assumption that “everyone will want the product” assumes for one - that the product is undoubtingly the cure for basically every ailment. One glimpse at the label takes that wind out of the sail of that statement.
Next there is human nature. Just the point that everyone is using it will bring a certain percentage of the population to reject it, because they don’t feel doing what everyone does.
Others may already use something else, others may have already made bad experiences with MLM (and that is a considerable portion of the population), others simply don’t have money to spare for it, some are too old, some too young, some too healthy, some too wealthy. Some don’t like people, others don’t like fruit and the list goes on.
So even if the product would be genuine, even if the price were to be ok, even if all the conditions that prevent a total success in reality were not there - just these issues would size down the market potential considerably.
And there the other strength of MLM comes to the forefront. Greed. Seeing people tell their stories of success, seeing those wonderful parties, hearing of rank improvements, hearing that Distributor X got a brand new Mercedes as present, just for reaching level Y - the excitement, that one day it could be you, enormous income potential with relatively little effort - all that plays a significant role in making reality taking a back seat.
Truth and facts are things, that can be portrayed in many different ways. Truth is, that enormous money is being made. That it is distributed within only 2.5% of the participants
is the part of the truth that isn’t likely to be mentioned.
Find an excellent article about MLM realities
on Quatloos.com here!
Other facts of life created by MLM’s rareley make it to the forefront. I’m talking about an endless number of victims, who either completely lost out, or if they came away good - just lost SOME money. What all victims have in common is that they lost something more then money - and that is trust. Families suffered, friendships have been ruined and in some cases life’s have been ruined completely.
These MLM’s, with their high gloss literature, flashy websites, elegant product designs are at the end of the day just camouflaged pyramid schemes, and are not legal entities. This form of marketing ought to be outlawed because the cause severe damage to any society.
That’s my point of view and I’m sticking to it.
Although this is the end of this article series, check back from time to time, because I expect some updates in the future.
For one I’m in contact with Dr. Stephen Talbott.
(The professor who made the test tube study on the Acai Berry, that is being exploited so massively by both Fruta Vida and Mona Vie.)
I hope to get a scientifically well founded statement from him in regard on whether it is legitimate to transfer the results of the study to
the final Mona Vie product.
I also contacted Dr. Perricone and Oprah, to hear, what they think about the exploitation of their image and product by Mona Vie, Fruta Vita and Amigo, despite neither Dr. Perricone nor Oprah ever mentioned either of these products, just one ingredient - and even that in a different form…
But I’m not very confident, of hearing back from those very important personalities, for a guy who does a little research on a product is probably not important enough to actually respond.
But who knows.
I hope this article series helped to gain perspective - and helped to think at least twice
before committing to something, that has too many thorns to be used.
Thanks for reading!
-----------------------------------------------------
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida, Amigo May Update
Posted Thursday May 18, 2006
Well - there’s not much to report.
None of the “celebrities” did bother to respond - quite frankly I didn’t expect them, to either.
Actually Mona Vie did after several months in response to my question about the high
sugar content. But the answer is as informative as their website - a link to FAQ’s.
It had a downside though. To get there you have to be - guess what - a distributor
with a login. Bummer.
Our UF Assistant Professor however is squeezed on both ends. Though clearly unhappy
with what is being made from his study - the upside is added puplicity for the University
of Florida. So at the end politics is the name of the game - and I will not divulge
the content of our communication - since I promised not to quote him without his
consent.
There is however another point - and that much I can “reveal” - and that is that the
MonaVie Company itself does everything to remove itself from any indication, that
their fruitjuice has any health benefits. That way they can easily blame their
respective distributors for claims, they don’t endorse. And they keep themselves
conveniently out of potential legal trouble, too.
The distributors claims however - if anything - haven’t seized to be amazing and
outrageous. From total cancer remission to cysts falling off and other wonder healings
everything is used to lure people into buying their product.
Oh - and of course - the usual Spam, attacks and posts of enraged followers.
But - as I made it clear - I already have one post that shows how little these
distributors understand about facts - or better new facts or evidence.
Instead all of them - I lost count at about 70 posts that I deleted, have the same
scheme, wording arguments.
The threats (but mostly just insults) follow the same scheme and are not even worth
to be recognized.
To answer questions that I received in emails - why I don’t allow these posts.
For one - they are basically identical. And as long as they don’t bring new facts,
evidence or proven case histories to the discussion - I simply will not allow them
to be posted and indirectly endorse their system by giving them space on
my site.
And since none of those posts met these basic requirements and invited open
discussion - one has to do for all of them.
What else is new?
Though not bad for a tiny blog like this to be #1 in Google and MSN, #2 in Yahoo
search results, when it come to facts on Mona Vie - it is a little bewildering
that there really is so little to find that is NOT a distributor endorsement.
But - as with all these schemes - time will tell.
But I promise that I will keep my readers posted on that issue and will
publish, whenever I find something of interest.
For now however - thanks for your emails - and please - post instead
of sending email directly to me.
Cheers - don’t let the fruit bugs bite you!
---------------------------------------------
Reposted w/o permission
Continued from previous post.
I am not the author of this material - so don't shoot the messenger. The reader can take a look, digest the info, and come to their own conclusions.
Reposted from a now defunct blog (w/o permission). If the owner of this content would like this post to be removed, please let me know, and I will take it down immediately.
Reposted material begins here:
---------------------------------------------------
Posted Saturday March 18, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida IX
Next to my last article on the matter I’d like to focus on a point in all of these MLM systems, that I feel is extremely discomforting - and after the downfall of yet another MLM system definitely will be for the participants.
And that is the ethical aspect of this whole enchilada. Not withstanding the off chance of finding a genuinely product in the midst of so many "false prophet products" the ethical shortcuts, that are being taken in those systems do bother me enough to have spent a considerable amount of time to research the matter.
For starters there is the product. A fruit Juice with healing powers beyond anything the world has ever seen. Unique and without comparison.
Unequalled and unparalleled.
Just one snag.
There are several of them!
Claiming their uniqueness and every once in a while a new one joins - like March 1st the Amigo Health promise business opportunity.
My - is THAT confusing. Or not.
What all of them actually have in common are their outlandish claims of health benefits, equally outlandish pricing - and an equally considerably fear to compete out in the open!
All of them equally don’t like to see you as a customer, but like you to do their work for them and peddle their product.
Neither one of them can actually back up their claims with anything other then indirect and very thin statements of "studies" on one or the other ingredient of theirs.
To make my point I will quote a passage from
Dr. Ralph Moss most interesting article
on http://chetday.com/mangosteen.htm
that deals with XanGo.
Dr. Ralph Moss - Reality Check
So it is high time for a reality check. Has mangosteen really been thoroughly studied in terms of its effect on cancer and a host of other diseases? Or is this simply a wild extrapolation driven by strong commercial motives?
Dr. Templeman refers to 44 scientific publications on this topic but there are just 29 articles on the topic of Garcinia mangostana in PubMed, the US National Library of Medicine database of 14+ million citations. A total of four of these studies relate to cancer. In one test tube experiment it was shown that a xanthone found in mangosteen kills cancer cells as effectively as many chemotherapeutic drugs. It also appears (on the basis of limited data) that compounds found abundantly in mangosteen can inhibit the harmful Cox 1 and Cox 2 enzymes, and can also induce programmed cell death (apoptosis) in aberrant cells (Ho 2002). Mangosteen thus joins a fairly long list of naturally derived compounds that might potentially have some anticancer activity.
These 29 articles do not constitute a wealth of data. For example, by contrast, PubMed lists over 2,300 articles on the topic of vitamin C and cancer, 125 of which refer to clinical trials. There are a similar number of studies on vitamin E and cancer. There are 835 studies of melatonin and cancer, and a truly impressive 16,000 on polysaccharides and cancer, including 536 clinical trials and 277 randomized controlled trials (RCTs).
Yet, we’re to believe that four test-tube experiments constitute - to quote the aforementioned Dr. Templeman - "mountains of evidence" on the benefits of XanGo.
According to the promotional website of one of XanGo’s many "independent distributors" at http://bjsbytes.com/Xango/Questions.htm:
"…much of the science behind xanthones is predominantly available to those in the medical community until recently. Many of the clinical studies on xanthones have been done in universities and testing facilities throughout Asia and have recently started to catch the attention of Western researchers."
But is this true? Reputable researchers the world over, including those in Asia, publish in PubMed-listed journals. For example there are over 63,000 articles on cancer in PubMed in the Japanese language. Yet despite the website’s misleading talk about "clinical studies," PubMed does not contain a single clinical trial of mangosteen in the treatment of cancer, or any other disease. Perhaps these promoters don’t realize that a clinical study is not something done in a laboratory, but a study that by definition is carried out on living patients. Laboratory studies on cell lines or even animals do not qualify for the title ‘clinical study’.
Thus, despite what you may read at any one of those 21,000 promotional websites, very little scientific evidence exists concerning mangosteen’s anticancer activity in humans.
In my opinion, what we have here is simply an overpriced fruit drink. Fruit drinks are often healthful beverages. But the only reason I can see that the promoters of mangosteen can get away with charging $37 for this product is that they are playing on patients’ hopes and fears in a cynical way. Without the health claims, open or implied, the product could only be sold for at most $5 or $6 (which, for example, is the cost of antioxidant-rich pomegranate juice).
The mangosteen phenomenon is a reprise of the aloe vera, gingko biloba, and especially the noni juice story, complete with exaggerated claims for the health benefits of an exotic fruit. It should come as no surprise that both the President and the Chief Financial Officer of Xango once worked for Morinda (now called Tahitian Noni International).
Compounds found in plants have long been of great interest to cancer researchers. We must never forget that about one-fifth of all chemotherapeutic agents (including Vincristine, Vinblastine, Etoposide, Teniposide, and Taxol) are ultimately derived from plant sources. Many of these took a long time to pass through the regulatory process, since serious research into botanical medicine often goes begging for financial and intellectual support. Starved of funds in this way, the riches of the natural world are often neglected by mainstream science, only to be plundered by less scrupulous organizations. The patient loses twice - by not having the fruits of serious research and by being deceived by slick operators posing as friends and benefactors. Some may even opt for unproven miracle juices in lieu of more certain therapies that might save their lives.
When it comes to cancer, we truly live in a topsy-turvy world.
Hard to say that any better.
But the non existing validity of all claims made by all these products is only one part.
They deliberately Target even those that even modern medicine can hardly help. As if these people hadn’t been through enough - they get their hopes high and their bank accounts cleared out for nothing but useless sugarwater.
And it still doesn’t stop there.
These MLM systems know why they shy away from real and open competition. Using their backdoor approach they automatically inherit the trust you meet your friends with - because that’s the way their business spreads and touches even the most remote regions.
Once John Smith has sprung the trap and is caught - who is he going to approach? Not someone right of the street - nah.
The way of least resistance - friends and family.
And so the product that claims to heal it - takes on the characteristics of cancer and spreads.
Silently and with little resistance.
Making the trust of family and friendship their own - these systems are worse then cancer.
Since the supply of new "victims" for the proud distributor dissipates pretty fast distributors are stuck with their obligation of monthly purchases, pressured by their peers, people they brought into the "business" start complaining, it turns out that the product not real does what it promises, the money potential that looked so promising at the beginning never materializes and at the end of the day families find themselves not only fighting, but also considerably worse off, then they were before.
Is it fair to call that unethical? I believe so. There are too many things in the setup of these MLM’s that indicate, that it has little to do with the product itself. How else would you explain,
that no effort is made at all on the manufacturer’s side to establish credence for the product by conducting medical studies and clinical trials? Why else would they rely on their distributors to spread the word of unheard healing abilities - while they themselves cover their behind with statements like:
"This product is not intended to diagnose, treat cure or prevent any disease."
That’s quite different from the messianic statements we hear from their sales force. Not a minute goes by without someone mentioning what it is good for, what it heals and what person just rose from his wheelchair to walk again.
And it is so simple. Actually - the above statement is the most honest statement that you are ever going to hear from them.
They want their honey bees to recruit new ones, and they want their people to lock themselves in automatic shipments, buying useless, high gloss advertising material, expensive books and an extremely overprized product. They profit on everything. As if the Amway scandal never happened - they march on with the same scheme and their followers stick on the fly trap.
And how do I dare to state that this wonder product is overprized? It’s easy. People are being told that the Açai Berry is rare, extremely expensive, hard to harvest and highly perishable.
Hmm… And how come, that e.g. the product Açai Pure - where the Açai Berry is the sole fruit, being used (not mixed with low cost Cranberry and other juices) is being sold for a fraction of Mona Vie - to be precise for 8.2% of Mona Vie’s price.
Or to make it even more apparent - for one bottle of Mona Vie you receive 12 bottles Açai Pure. And to top that - other then the expensive product - the cheap one actually has in it what the expensive one promises. Omega Fats, Fibers, Proteins, multiple Vitamins and Minerals.
It is actually embarrassing to see that comparison - but that doesn’t seem to phase any distributor. Why? Because they don’t look. They are so lulled in by the powerful propaganda of these Schemes, the peer pressure deprives them of common sense..
-----------------------------------------------
Posted Wednesday March 22, 2006
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida, Amigo X
The conclusion:
In this article series I did an examination of
a system and it’s products and I did share my findings.
I don’t claim being a scientist, a health expert or any other top of the shelf thinker.
What I claim, look for and ask for is common sense. And just that did it to me - it made me
sit down on my butt and start some research to look closer on the subject at hand - since my gut told me almost instantly, that something’s not right about it.
That - and that alone is the reason and motivation for me to undertake this little excursion.
Before I recapitulate the results - here are some issues I’d like to address:
For one - I concentrated on 4 products:
Noni, XanGo, Mona Vie and Fruta Vida.
There are more of those - and much more similar MLM products out there - in form of pills and creams and so on.
I started out with looking into Mona Vie - and soon it became obvious - that the above mentioned products all use almost identical structures, claims, pricing and distribution - so that it relatively fair to draw conclusions from one to another product.
I can already hear the complaints of either product supporter - but the fact is - the similarities are overwhelming -the scientific proof for the potency of any of these products is
more than underwhelming - it is non - existent.
So when mostly talking about Mona Vie, then only to illustrate - because despite different
main ingredients - the claims, testimonials, methods and structures are so similar, that even a distributor couldn’t tell them apart, if the names weren’t mentioned.
And here’s the recap of my findings:
All products mentioned are fruit juice mixings, with little to no beneficiary ingredients, that the manufacturer actually can list on the nutrition charts. A hardcore supporter might say - well they are in it anyway - they are just not listed - but be serious.
If you have such revolutionary products with such a mass of good ingredients - how irrational would it be - not to show off with them?
That’s like a BMW not boasting with the brand new V12 engine that it has.
The solution for that conundrum however is a very simple one. The concentration of these beneficiary ingredients is so low that they tend towards zero, when measured.
How bad would it look if they had to provide e.g. the value for Omega 9 fats as let’s say 0.004mg?
The Vitamin C and Iron content of Mona Vie’s label is already pitiful enough - with a mere 2%
of the daily requirements of a regular 2000 calorie diet.
To reach your daily input with Mona Vie you’d have to ingest 1¼litre or almost 2 bottle with a price tag (reg salesprice) of $ 66.50.
Now why is that? According to the european commission of food, that examined over 20 varieties of Noni Juices - they are highly diluted - they contain in average 80% water.
Now Mona Vie is a direct descendent of Noni - did they change their formula? Naaah - why would they? Noni was successful the way it was,
so why change a winning horse? The earlier mentioned statement of a former Mona Vie distributor, who claimed to having ordered an analysis of Mona Vie, that showed the exact same results seems to support that. But I don’t
want to stake my findings on this - but rather on those of the European counterpart of the US FDA.
Now - given that high of a dilution, plus adding the considerable amount of sugar (10 - 16%) for all four juices - there is simply not enough left to provide mentionable results.
What does that tell us at the end of the day?
One thing is for sure - all 4 manufacturers are not really into providing us with the health wonder from the Amazon or from wherever the exotic fruits may come from - and the ultimate reasoning becomes obvious as well. Costs.
The lower the costs - the bigger the margins.
And since these products are sold for about 10 times of what comparable real market products cost - these margins are phenomenal.
Not so much for the distributor and even less for the consumer - but the more for the company.
With a total production cost of max.
$ 1.50/bottle, which is a fairly high estimate, these companies can afford to spend double or triple of that on marketing and product launch and still have windfall earnings with each and every bottle sold.
So much to the health part, what the actual ingredients is concerned.
But what about the abundance of testimonials?
It is pretty much established, that some testimonials are fabricated. …see Part III
And that - at the end of the day renders the
totality pretty much useless - because how can I trust them, after knowing that there are fabricated ones around?
Although I believe that some people do actually feel an improvement or better - but are these effects really an effect of the product, or are they a mere placebo effect, that can be as genuine as the real deal? I believe the latter to be the case, especially knowing how immense the peer pressure in these organizations is - might it be for positive or negative impact. We all are herd animals - and we all feel better doing and liking what the majority does as compared to going our own way - that’s just how it is.
It can lead to good things - like the Monday marches in East Germany that ultimately tore down the Berlin Wall - or it can lead to bad things like mass hysteria (remember the airing of the “War of the Worlds” radio show) or lynch justice.
Individually none of the participants of these events would have acted that way - it was the mass reaction that triggered an unusual behavior, that eliminates common sense and usually exercised caution.
Next step is the look at the MLM system.
I pretty much know, that I’m not alone, when I find it extremely odd, that I have to pay someone, to sell his products, and that I actually have to commit to monthly purchase of product as well, to be able to keep selling it. I also find it very peculiar, that I have to pay for marketing material, seminars - that I am going to be pressured in buying and attending - friendly, but nevertheless somewhat pressured. And the crown jewel of oddities is the fact that my purpose as a distributor isn’t about selling the product, but to recruit people, to recruit people.
Hmm - I have the best and healthiest of products - and it isn’t about it. Weird.
But it is even more weird that instead of creating a base of loyal product users and trying to provide as much as possible of this wonder product - I am actually going to hire my direct competition.
That’s not only weird - that’s against the natural instinct of any genuine sales philosophy.
But still - thousands of people sign up…
Let me see - if I got all of that right.
I have a product that is extremely expensive, yet has nothing to show for. Everybody just has to take a bottle in his end - turn it , read the label and compare that with ordinary 90% cheaper juices in a supermarket.
And I have to pay in order to hire my own competition.
So how come - anyone signs up in the first place? Greed is the most probable cause, followed closely by the fact, that the product and system aren’t introduced by a pamphlet or an anonymous sales person. No people are sucked into it by the same people they trust the most - friends and family. And these two things
are those which make these houses of cards work.
You’re led into meetings, where “stars” of the system boast with their money and earnings - testimonials are delivered to boast the product,
an cheery and jubilant atmosphere of power, money and positive outlook clouds common sense so much, that the oddities, that I mentioned are completely ignored and caution is thrown out the window.
Despite simple mathematics, that render the
basics of a MLM system utterly impossible - even people with business degrees fall for it.
Simple Math is telling us that a model that states, that a system, starting out with one person, that hires two under him and so on - will cover the entire population of the US in just 30 steps down the line.
Why does it work? Because the initial numbers are so neat, so easy and understandable. It’s all about two or three people - you hire two - they hire two - no one actually takes a further step to see how fast these numbers really add up to sums, that make success for all virtually impossible.
There are so many weak points in the model that I was flabbergasted, that anyone actually could take them serious - there’s not only the mathematical improbability for success - there are several more points that raise red flags.
The assumption that “everyone will want the product” assumes for one - that the product is undoubtingly the cure for basically every ailment. One glimpse at the label takes that wind out of the sail of that statement.
Next there is human nature. Just the point that everyone is using it will bring a certain percentage of the population to reject it, because they don’t feel doing what everyone does.
Others may already use something else, others may have already made bad experiences with MLM (and that is a considerable portion of the population), others simply don’t have money to spare for it, some are too old, some too young, some too healthy, some too wealthy. Some don’t like people, others don’t like fruit and the list goes on.
So even if the product would be genuine, even if the price were to be ok, even if all the conditions that prevent a total success in reality were not there - just these issues would size down the market potential considerably.
And there the other strength of MLM comes to the forefront. Greed. Seeing people tell their stories of success, seeing those wonderful parties, hearing of rank improvements, hearing that Distributor X got a brand new Mercedes as present, just for reaching level Y - the excitement, that one day it could be you, enormous income potential with relatively little effort - all that plays a significant role in making reality taking a back seat.
Truth and facts are things, that can be portrayed in many different ways. Truth is, that enormous money is being made. That it is distributed within only 2.5% of the participants
is the part of the truth that isn’t likely to be mentioned.
Find an excellent article about MLM realities
on Quatloos.com here!
Other facts of life created by MLM’s rareley make it to the forefront. I’m talking about an endless number of victims, who either completely lost out, or if they came away good - just lost SOME money. What all victims have in common is that they lost something more then money - and that is trust. Families suffered, friendships have been ruined and in some cases life’s have been ruined completely.
These MLM’s, with their high gloss literature, flashy websites, elegant product designs are at the end of the day just camouflaged pyramid schemes, and are not legal entities. This form of marketing ought to be outlawed because the cause severe damage to any society.
That’s my point of view and I’m sticking to it.
Although this is the end of this article series, check back from time to time, because I expect some updates in the future.
For one I’m in contact with Dr. Stephen Talbott.
(The professor who made the test tube study on the Acai Berry, that is being exploited so massively by both Fruta Vida and Mona Vie.)
I hope to get a scientifically well founded statement from him in regard on whether it is legitimate to transfer the results of the study to
the final Mona Vie product.
I also contacted Dr. Perricone and Oprah, to hear, what they think about the exploitation of their image and product by Mona Vie, Fruta Vita and Amigo, despite neither Dr. Perricone nor Oprah ever mentioned either of these products, just one ingredient - and even that in a different form…
But I’m not very confident, of hearing back from those very important personalities, for a guy who does a little research on a product is probably not important enough to actually respond.
But who knows.
I hope this article series helped to gain perspective - and helped to think at least twice
before committing to something, that has too many thorns to be used.
Thanks for reading!
-----------------------------------------------------
Facts on Mona Vie, Xango, Noni, Fruta Vida, Amigo May Update
Posted Thursday May 18, 2006
Well - there’s not much to report.
None of the “celebrities” did bother to respond - quite frankly I didn’t expect them, to either.
Actually Mona Vie did after several months in response to my question about the high
sugar content. But the answer is as informative as their website - a link to FAQ’s.
It had a downside though. To get there you have to be - guess what - a distributor
with a login. Bummer.
Our UF Assistant Professor however is squeezed on both ends. Though clearly unhappy
with what is being made from his study - the upside is added puplicity for the University
of Florida. So at the end politics is the name of the game - and I will not divulge
the content of our communication - since I promised not to quote him without his
consent.
There is however another point - and that much I can “reveal” - and that is that the
MonaVie Company itself does everything to remove itself from any indication, that
their fruitjuice has any health benefits. That way they can easily blame their
respective distributors for claims, they don’t endorse. And they keep themselves
conveniently out of potential legal trouble, too.
The distributors claims however - if anything - haven’t seized to be amazing and
outrageous. From total cancer remission to cysts falling off and other wonder healings
everything is used to lure people into buying their product.
Oh - and of course - the usual Spam, attacks and posts of enraged followers.
But - as I made it clear - I already have one post that shows how little these
distributors understand about facts - or better new facts or evidence.
Instead all of them - I lost count at about 70 posts that I deleted, have the same
scheme, wording arguments.
The threats (but mostly just insults) follow the same scheme and are not even worth
to be recognized.
To answer questions that I received in emails - why I don’t allow these posts.
For one - they are basically identical. And as long as they don’t bring new facts,
evidence or proven case histories to the discussion - I simply will not allow them
to be posted and indirectly endorse their system by giving them space on
my site.
And since none of those posts met these basic requirements and invited open
discussion - one has to do for all of them.
What else is new?
Though not bad for a tiny blog like this to be #1 in Google and MSN, #2 in Yahoo
search results, when it come to facts on Mona Vie - it is a little bewildering
that there really is so little to find that is NOT a distributor endorsement.
But - as with all these schemes - time will tell.
But I promise that I will keep my readers posted on that issue and will
publish, whenever I find something of interest.
For now however - thanks for your emails - and please - post instead
of sending email directly to me.
Cheers - don’t let the fruit bugs bite you!
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Reposted w/o permission
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