NASA NSX classification?

[g3driver]

Greetings all.
I see that NASA has the 1991 NSX with the 3.0L classified as TTC** and also the 1997+ NSX with the 3.2L also as a TTC**.

The question I have is, why are they both classified the same with the same 14pt addition? As someone that races a 1991 I can tell you the car in its day was great but it is a 20 year old car now and 14 its addition is a little e=much in my opinion. I feel cars that old should be maybe be a 7 pt addition at most. The new cars today that are TTC are more advanced and have better aero that my 1991 design.

What is the process to get NASA to reclassify the car?

 

[Coz]

Contact your Regional TT Director, or our National TT Director, Greg Greenbaum: [email protected]

Greetings all.
I see that NASA has the 1991 NSX with the 3.0L classified as TTC** and also the 1997+ NSX with the 3.2L also as a TTC**.

The question I have is, why are they both classified the same with the same 14pt addition? As someone that races a 1991 I can tell you the car in its day was great but it is a 20 year old car now and 14 its addition is a little e=much in my opinion. I feel cars that old should be maybe be a 7 pt addition at most. The new cars today that are TTC are more advanced and have better aero that my 1991 design.

What is the process to get NASA to reclassify the car?

 

[g3driver]

Thanx I sent him an email.
COZ, what do you think about the classifaction?

 

[Coz]

I'm really the wrong person to ask...

Ravi would be a better person to tell you what he thinks about the NSX classifications on a stock, semi-stock basis. I know he has a hard time with any mods with his NSX to keep it from moving up all the time. He used to be in TTA in 2011 and was able to some how drop it down to TTB for 2012.

I do know it takes very little mod wise to start bumping the NSX up quick to have to compete with cars more modern for sure. It seems to be a catch 22 with the NSX. Every time you mod it to be competitive in your class, it moves up another class and then you find yourself chasing mods again to be competitive in that class. Its a vicious circle that can be very frustrating.

I've never had a chance to be in anything other than TTU.
I will let Ravi know about your question so he can chime in...

Thanx I sent him an email.
COZ, what do you think about the classification?

 

[R13]

Yeah, let me know how that goes.

I think it's a lot down to tires and wheels being basically open in TT up to a certain width. On a race track the main difference between a stock '91 and a stock '97 would be the tire sizes. Given equal wheels/tires, it'd be down to HP and an extra gear vs. maybe a little less weight.

If all goes well I'll be running TTB with NASA Southeast in my lightly modded '92.

 

[SOURCE 1]

I looked into it, and with my mods it was basically coz's class. Nothing I could
Do To Change it at all. Even though I have no sanctioned experience on track I was competing with GT3 RS's.. I passed on thinking about competing this
Year until I get some experience.

 

[Coz]

You wouldn't have been able to compete in any TT class without extensive verifiable track experience, or some time moving up in the HPDE 2-3-4 groups first, not with NASA anyway.
Trust me Brian, TTU is no cake walk. Most of the cars you'll be competing with when you are ready are full blown caged race cars running Hoosiers and the drivers are very skilled.
Take your time getting there. In the mean time, get out there anyway, run in the HPDE's and get as much seat time as you can.

I looked into it, and with my mods it was basically coz's class. Nothing I could
Do To Change it at all. Even though I have no sanctioned experience on track I was competing with GT3 RS's.. I passed on thinking about competing this
Year until I get some experience.

 

[integrals]

Coz has led me to this post to chime in on this ...

I currently have a NASA TTB legal NSX.

The easiest way to accomplish this... Take no weight off it, use a internally resevoired shock absorber (V3's are great), SOS sway bars, NT01 Tires 275mm or smaller, and no Aero (I have a diffuser). Oh and I have an exhaust with an OEM header and Catalytic converters. I also have to run with a significant amount of fuel to make weight.

That basically puts me 1point from being in TTA again.

Is it competitive? You bet your ass it is. Ask my competition.

Is it a good fit? No. TTA is a much more comfortable class for running these cars as it opens up the doors. I am returning to TTA next event with ITB's, Aero, and weight modifications. TTB just isn't a good fit if you want to have a little freedom with modifications. I have been running my NSX 4 years in Small Bore TT and had alot of success, but in the end of the day, its in the wrong class to have alot of FUN for an experienced driver.

Time to go chase COZ!

To clarify on the 91 vs newer NSX classing, the newer NSX may have a different powerplant and transmission but weighs significantly more as well so the TT rules have basically dubbed it a null point.


Cliffnotes:

-The NSX can be competitive in TT-B
-You will not be modifying hardly anything
-You will have alot of tough competition from E36 M3's.
-You will feel like you are having to 'restrict' the car, and you are right
-Running in TT-A is much less stressful

-Ravi

If you have specific questions, PM me, I get on here time to time.

 

[Coz]

Coz has led me to this post to chime in on this ...

Thanks Ravi !

 

[R13]

Yup, that's great info. I recently did the calculations on my car in preparation for it's inspection (next event I make it to). As it sits and I'm at the bottom of TTB and was considering a few different routes to fill out the points. I don't have plans to modify my car that heavily (TT is going to be a stop-gap until I build something more disposable to go wheel-to-wheel with), so that should be a good fit.

I do know the times I've run at a few tracks would be TTB competitive even in my slightly under-prepped car, so I'm looking forward to making that official.

 

[g3driver]

Thank you for the input. I have almost the same setup you do. Are you counting +7 for the KWV3 and +2 for the spring? Thats how I read the rules. What do you think?

Coz has led me to this post to chime in on this ...

I currently have a NASA TTB legal NSX.

The easiest way to accomplish this... Take no weight off it, use a internally resevoired shock absorber (V3's are great), SOS sway bars, NT01 Tires 275mm or smaller, and no Aero (I have a diffuser). Oh and I have an exhaust with an OEM header and Catalytic converters. I also have to run with a significant amount of fuel to make weight.

That basically puts me 1point from being in TTA again.

Is it competitive? You bet your ass it is. Ask my competition.

Is it a good fit? No. TTA is a much more comfortable class for running these cars as it opens up the doors. I am returning to TTA next event with ITB's, Aero, and weight modifications. TTB just isn't a good fit if you want to have a little freedom with modifications. I have been running my NSX 4 years in Small Bore TT and had alot of success, but in the end of the day, its in the wrong class to have alot of FUN for an experienced driver.

Time to go chase COZ!

To clarify on the 91 vs newer NSX classing, the newer NSX may have a different powerplant and transmission but weighs significantly more as well so the TT rules have basically dubbed it a null point.


Cliffnotes:

-The NSX can be competitive in TT-B
-You will not be modifying hardly anything
-You will have alot of tough competition from E36 M3's.
-You will feel like you are having to 'restrict' the car, and you are right
-Running in TT-A is much less stressful

-Ravi

If you have specific questions, PM me, I get on here time to time.

 

[integrals]

Thank you for the input. I have almost the same setup you do. Are you counting +7 for the KWV3 and +2 for the spring? Thats how I read the rules. What do you think?

yes the V3's are 9 points!

EDIT: Responded while not thinking / tired.

V3's are +3 for non BTM Shock / Damper and +2 for non BTM Springs
Total of +5

The CLUBSPORTS with external reservoirs are +7

 

[R13]

yes the V3's are 9 points!

Really? They don't have a piggy-back reservoir, do they have > 40mm shaft diameter? (I haven't measured my own).

I also had a question mark on the STMPO FCB (brace with 2 attachment points that goes between the front frame rails behind the bumper.

F.4. addresses stiffening devicens, but specifically says with more than two attachment points, or stuff like subframe connectors, etc. It doesn't seem like it would fall into that category, but there could be interpretation there.

I'd made up a list of questions to ask my regional director, and both of the above were on it.

 

[integrals]

Really? They don't have a piggy-back reservoir, do they have > 40mm shaft diameter? (I haven't measured my own).

I also had a question mark on the STMPO FCB (brace with 2 attachment points that goes between the front frame rails behind the bumper.

F.4. addresses stiffening devicens, but specifically says with more than two attachment points, or stuff like subframe connectors, etc. It doesn't seem like it would fall into that category, but there could be interpretation there.

I'd made up a list of questions to ask my regional director, and both of the above were on it.

Sorry I answered this when I was a bit tired. You are correct, I took +3 for non BTM Struts and another +2 for non BTM Spring rates for a total of +5 points.

As far as the Stiffening, if it doesn't attach in more than two points, I think you are square.

Edited my original post to reflect proper information.

 

[Scin]

I have a TTB NSX here in Texas. Yes it's competitive. The best TTB competitors that I am up against for a win in my region are in E-46 M3's and one guy from far away with an S2000.

You basically want to do all the non-compliance stuff, coilovers without an external reservoir (I run JRZ RS), anti-sway bars, headers & exhaust, drop to the minimum weight before you take points and then add tires. If you do things right you can still run a Hoosier A6 and fit in TTB.

I regret my switch to StopTech brakes, it's a complete waste for TT... (not worth taking 2 points) .. but great for track days, etc.. because you will save on pads and rotors over time. When I go back to competing regularly in TTB I will switch back to stock calipers with the StopTech Aero Rotors.

The problem with going TTA is that you will be up against cars with a lot more power, including corvettes that basically gain points by reducing their tire size. You will have to add power via something like ITB's or do very serious weight reduction to compete and also add a big ass wing and front splitter.

 

[g3driver]

I have a TTB NSX here in Texas. Yes it's competitive. The best TTB competitors that I am up against for a win in my region are in E-46 M3's and one guy from far away with an S2000.

You basically want to do all the non-compliance stuff, coilovers without an external reservoir (I run JRZ RS), anti-sway bars, headers & exhaust, drop to the minimum weight before you take points and then add tires. If you do things right you can still run a Hoosier A6 and fit in TTB.

I regret my switch to StopTech brakes, it's a complete waste for TT... (not worth taking 2 points) .. but great for track days, etc.. because you will save on pads and rotors over time. When I go back to competing regularly in TTB I will switch back to stock calipers with the StopTech Aero Rotors.

The problem with going TTA is that you will be up against cars with a lot more power, including corvettes that basically gain points by reducing their tire size. You will have to add power via something like ITB's or do very serious weight reduction to compete and also add a big ass wing and front splitter.

I agree completely, and I have done pretty much that.
I spoke with Greg Greenbaum and he is saying that the 3.0L NSX is a TTC* but since it is 106 pounds lighter they add the additional star. I really don't understand why when the stock 3.2L is faster in every aspect to a 3.0L and they are both TTC**? With out the the 6 speed they are not the same car. Ohh well.

 

[integrals]

Just reclassed for TTA again!

Don't count the NSX out in TTA, I placed 3rd place overall last year for NASA AZ Region.

 

[integrals]

And just placed 3rd place for both Friday and Saturday last weekend.

Haven't even put the hoosiers on yet!

 

[R13]

Grats!

Just a thought, but do you figure the NSX (or any car for that matter) can actually compete in a TT class without resorting to gumball A6's?

I've autocrossed for quite a while, and really just burned out on buying two sets of tires/year, and that would only get worse with TT. I might consider an RA1 or R888 that I could run all season on, but I'd honestly prefer to stay on an aggressive street tire like the Dunlops I have on the car now.

 

[integrals]

Grats!

Just a thought, but do you figure the NSX (or any car for that matter) can actually compete in a TT class without resorting to gumball A6's?

I've autocrossed for quite a while, and really just burned out on buying two sets of tires/year, and that would only get worse with TT. I might consider an RA1 or R888 that I could run all season on, but I'd honestly prefer to stay on an aggressive street tire like the Dunlops I have on the car now.

I don't use Hoosiers, I use NT01's and am plenty competitive. The weakest point of my car is Aero at this point which I can add plenty of without leaving TTA. I also am going to start with minor weight reduction. Still working with 275whp so well under powered for my class PTW.

R888's are garbage in my opinion when compared to RA1 or NT01. I have a set on my Honda Challenge car and cannot wait till they are off.

Thanks by the way!

 

[R13]

I don't use Hoosiers, I use NT01's and am plenty competitive. The weakest point of my car is Aero at this point which I can add plenty of without leaving TTA. I also am going to start with minor weight reduction. Still working with 275whp so well under powered for my class PTW.

R888's are garbage in my opinion when compared to RA1 or NT01. I have a set on my Honda Challenge car and cannot wait till they are off.

Thanks by the way!

The R888 opinion seems to vary by car. I ran them on my MR2 for a while and didn't hate them. I never tried RA1s on that same car, so I don't know what I may have been missing though.

I'll be curious to see how you do in TTA. How far off my current times are from the fast TTB guys in the southeast seems to vary wildly by track. ~7-8s off around Road Atlanta, but I'd have the class record at Little Talladega if my times had been official. CMP is somewhere in between. That said, I KNOW my car is underprepped currently, I just need to decide where to put my remaining points.

 

[integrals]

The R888 opinion seems to vary by car. I ran them on my MR2 for a while and didn't hate them. I never tried RA1s on that same car, so I don't know what I may have been missing though.

I'll be curious to see how you do in TTA. How far off my current times are from the fast TTB guys in the southeast seems to vary wildly by track. ~7-8s off around Road Atlanta, but I'd have the class record at Little Talladega if my times had been official. CMP is somewhere in between. That said, I KNOW my car is underprepped currently, I just need to decide where to put my remaining points.

Like i stated earlier on, the NSX in TTB can be competitive but under great constraint. Opening it up to TTA gives you quite a bit more leverage in preparation levels.

In TTB, I ran top 3 pretty much all year. And now i've moved to A and am still sitting top 3 again. Except it is much easier to drive my car at the limits with an A prep than B prep, and to me more enjoyable.