[New] Big Project/ Some Questions

[Hiroko]

I'm moving over from the Rx-7 side ( t04r Dyno'd at 475 Hp )
and have a few question.
I am somewhat aware of the process of "Boring engine displacement".
Coming from forced induction cars to Natural Aspiration is not that hard a
process when the cars are this close as far as handling, power, looks.
I have been ghosting these forums for about 3 years, this is my first post
As I am in position to transfer into a Nsx.

N/A Upgrades
ScienceofSpeed.com Offers a 3.8L displacement (large 95mm bore / 88mm stroker) engine upgrade named "Stage 5".

F/I Upgrades
Stage 3 (1out of 3) 600 bph F/I engine build. Included in this kit :
* type D low compression forged piston w/ moly skirts, ring, wrist pin, lock set (click for detail)
* bush small rod end for floating piston
* MLS head gasket set (click for detail)
* polish crankshaft journals
* full internal gaskets, seals, & bearing set
* new timing belt
* mill heads, valve job, & gas check
* power hone block
* disassembly & assembly of engine, set ring gap, verify clearances

Next stage (2-3 For 3.2L engines)
* type D low compression forged piston w/ moly skirts, ring, tool steel wrist pin, lock set (click for detail)
* bush small rod end for floating piston
* MLS head gasket set (click for detail)
* head studs, main studs, & rod bolt kit (click for detail)
* stepped sleeved engine with big flange top
* fully balanced & blue printed rotating assembly
* full internal gaskets, seals, & bearing set
* new timing belt
* mill heads, valve job, & gas check
* disassembly & assembly of engine, gauge journals, set ring gap, verify clearances

Final Stage (3 - 3)
The following components can be used to increase breathing efficiency and durability of the stage 2 engine.

* larger intake valve & Inconel exhaust valves (click for detail)
* valve job including cutting seats to larger valve, deshroud valves & port heads
* chrome-moly or titanium billet connecting rods
* forced induction spec camshafts
* valve springs & titanium retainers
* adjustable locking timing belt tensioner

Going the F/I route I have thought long about the kit I was prepared to venture out with, and out of all the technical data I've seen on the site, LoveFab offers the most. 50k on a turbo kit in its first stages of production is quite the feat . This leads to my first question:

What Ems Would better utilize this setup?
(3.8L stoker, fully built) Lovefab offers the MSL, but would it be better
to use the AEM?

If not LoveFab, what turbo kit do you think would better suit this setup?
( HP Performance ran a close second)
My goals are to build a daily driver Nsx with 600+ bph, everyone's suggestions
on this set-up are totally welcomed ( no super charger suggestions ) :biggrin: .

 

[Elite]

Well there are a lot of questions to answer, but I'll stab at a few, and ask a couple of you. First I would ask for your personal reasoning for trying to go "stroker" and FI? I think your hp goal is doable with just a built low compression 3.2 and a proper sized turbo.

Knowing a little about Rx-7's(and liking them) I can tell you a low compression built 3.2, and proper sized turbo will get you less lag then you are used to on a 7. And even though the NSX is not known for torque, it is still better feeling before boost then the 7's feeling of no torque at all until you hit boost.

The MSL is an AEM.

There are a couple other turbo options to be released sometime soon, competition among vendors is always good for the consumer. It may be worth the wait.

 

[Hiroko]

Well there are a lot of questions to answer, but I'll stab at a few, and ask a couple of you. First I would ask for your personal reasoning for trying to go "stroker" and FI? I think your hp goal is doable with just a built low compression 3.2 and a proper sized turbo.

Knowing a little about Rx-7's(and liking them) I can tell you a low compression built 3.2, and proper sized turbo will get you less lag then you are used to on a 7. And even though the NSX is not known for torque, it is still better feeling before boost then the 7's feeling of no torque at all until you hit boost.

The MSL is an AEM.

There are a couple other turbo options to be released sometime soon, competition among vendors is always good for the consumer. It may be worth the wait.

The stroker option is a personal goal of mine, I am also a Avid lurker of the Supra forums and have seen the big numbers due to the stroker kit(s) install.
I know a built Low compression 3.2L would be enough to get that goal, But I also Like the larger displacement . ( same thing with the rx-7 3 rotor conversion )

.

I like you Ideas, and the way you think. Keep it coming.

 

[Elite]

I understand the "There is no replacement for displacement" rational, but I would chat with SOS about using their stroker with FI(make sure to mention your hp goals). If I remember correctly, I don't think they suggest it.

 

[Flexer]

The stroker option is a personal goal of mine, I am also a Avid lurker of the Supra forums and have seen the big numbers due to the stroker kit(s) install.
I know a built Low compression 3.2L would be enough to get that goal, But I also Like the larger displacement . ( same thing with the rx-7 3 rotor conversion )

.

I like you Ideas, and the way you think. Keep it coming.

I say go for it. Like Elite said. The MSL is a AEM.....it just allows you to "Piggy back" the aem on a 95+ car so that the stock ECu can still control the DBW.

A 3.8L stroker would be AWSOME! The torque would be insane and also allow you to spool up a GT42R faster then a 3.0L could spool a gt35R depending on A/R sizing and such. As such you could produce more power at lower boost and cooler AIT's. That would be desirable, but its just another way to do it.

Anway, its all in what you want just use the search button on the forum. Most of the info you are seaking is already out there in the forum.


J. R.

 

[Hiroko]

I understand the "There is no replacement for displacement" rational, but I would chat with SOS about using their stroker with FI(make sure to mention your hp goals). If I remember correctly, I don't think they suggest it.

I'm going to do some more reading on thier page, But if my Technical data is correct it should be more than doable. Does'nt hurt to double check, thanks for the heads up.

 

[Hiroko]

I say go for it. Like Elite said. The MSL is a AEM.....it just allows you to "Piggy back" the aem on a 95+ car so that the stock ECu can still control the DBW.

A 3.8L stroker would be AWSOME! The torque would be insane and also allow you to spool up a GT42R faster then a 3.0L could spool a gt35R depending on A/R sizing and such. As such you could produce more power at lower boost and cooler AIT's. That would be desirable, but its just another way to do it.

Anway, its all in what you want just use the search button on the forum. Most of the info you are seaking is already out there in the forum.


J. R.

:biggrin: @ "ye olde search button" . That was actually my first friend here, and what you said is my exact goal. Lower compression and a larger bore will provide more room for error ( Ems tuner error) , and larger turbo, and the most important thing MORE boost!

But Above all that I dont want a weekend warrior Like my 7 was, and a car that is going to be down for engine work all the time. so reliability, and drivability are key.

 

[clr1024]

A 3.8L stroker would be AWSOME!
J. R.

I don't think SOS recommends a FI 3.8L build, belive they think 3.6L is the max if you want to go FI. You'll have to ask them why

 

[Ike Chime]

I'm also planning an NSX F/I project too, but right now I have to deal with school.

From what I remember, the 3.8L stroker kit is only for the N/A application, unless I've been ill informed or they're doing something new. The biggest stroker/bore kit I've heard of for an NSX motor is 3.6 liters, which is pretty sick, considering that the engine revs all the way to 8000rpm with the potential to go even further.

As far as turbocharging, there are quite a few. Factor X has a 813rwhp NSX, and this is from a bored 3.0 liter (now 3.2 liters) -http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0604_turbo_acura_nsx/index1.html>

Also, you should consider a new cluch if you're going for high numbers. When I had my pontiac GTO (tuned), I thought I was legit with the T56, but I ended up buying a new clutch kit shortly after engine upgrades.

good luck with your project!

 

[WOODY]

A sleeved 3.2 can be bored up to 3.3-3.4 I believe. My car is a daily driver 3.2 sleeved with NOTHING but 9.5:1 pistons and just under 500 rwhp. No special head gasket or ARP bolts...nada. The motor has just under 50,000 miles all boosted and the last 25000 of that are with lovfab turbo. The HP and Torque are all there. I dont understand the need to spend the extra cash on rods, crank, cams etc when the existing setup has what it takes to get to the point of diminishing returns in a safe and reliable platform. (In my opinion over 500 rwhp is the point your tranny and axles are added to the "at risk" components. In terms of increase in seat of the pants feel and performance on a streetable car the difference between 500 and 600 rwhp is negligible. Who can crack the tires loose at the highest speed is not the goal!:biggrin: :wink:

 

[jorligan]

ELITE has a pretty good grasp of what is available and will soon be available.:biggrin: I think that even he is a little surprised at how much HP can be obtained with relatively low boost from a well built motor which flows well. Most everyone who has gone over 500 RWHP has been a little bit leery of the integrity of the axles and transmission unless you are going to go with big turbo and a gradual torque curve, something analogous to the BBSC curves. Armando has the highest straight FI HP and he broke the rear end loose going 60 mph+ when he floored it. On my car, I know that the turbo and engine can support more than 600 HP but I don't know if the rest of the car will hold up. If you are going to go higher than 650HP, make sure that you get new rods. I think it was Devin who told me that the stock rods can support a little over 650 HP and then you should be worried. Of course, this is if you are going to use all of the HP Just make sure that you have a good tuner or at least be willing to fly one in.

 

[Hiroko]

I wrote thier Information Email, and should be getting a reply sometime this week. I don't see them saying anything discourage the 3.8L bore as it would benifit the engine more than it would hurt. But we will see what thier tech staff says.

Keep you guys posted.

 

[Hiroko]

ELITE has a pretty good grasp of what is available and will soon be available.:biggrin: I think that even he is a little surprised at how much HP can be obtained with relatively low boost from a well built motor which flows well. Most everyone who has gone over 500 RWHP has been a little bit leery of the integrity of the axles and transmission unless you are going to go with big turbo and a gradual torque curve, something analogous to the BBSC curves. Armando has the highest straight FI HP and he broke the rear end loose going 60 mph+ when he floored it. On my car, I know that the turbo and engine can support more than 600 HP but I don't know if the rest of the car will hold up. If you are going to go higher than 650HP, make sure that you get new rods. I think it was Devin who told me that the stock rods can support a little over 650 HP and then you should be worried. Of course, this is if you are going to use all of the HP Just make sure that you have a good tuner or at least be willing to fly one in.

This is some of the Info I was looking for. The thing is the NSX is extremely light, so even 500HP is a nice goal, and will be able to keep up with higher HP Jdm, and Usdm muscle. And all the information I've come across says the same thing. So I'm trying to set low boost around 500 -550, and high boost around 575-600.:wink: