Next logical suspension mod?

Joined
5 November 2002
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3,487
Location
MN
So I have a 05 that I use only on the street with the following:

OEM Wheels/Tires
Bilstein shocks on lowered perch
TypeR chassis bars
SOS Steering Rack Bushings

Whats the next logical step? Different front / rear sways?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
 
SWAYS BARS! There are three ways to minimize roll. Springs, anti roll bars (sway bars) and lower CG. Springs give a harsher ride. Sways do not because as you go over bumps both wheels go up and down together.

If you are trying to get rid of the roll and minimize some of the understeer that Honda built in then go with the Dali bars front AND rear. They also are adjustable to let you fine tune it. On the street, the sways will make the corner handle flatter and give you more confidence. Easy mod to install and not too expensive.

I HAVE DRIVEN STOCK NSXs ON THE TRACK AND THEY ARE VERY CAPABLE AS IS. YOU WILL NOT BE EXCEEDING THE LIMITS OF THE CAR ON THE STREET. IF YOU ARE, THEN YOU ARE A VERY, VERY BAD BOY. AFTER SPENDING THREE YEARS WITH A COMPTECH PRO (1000/600 LB SPRINGS) I AM GOING THE OTHER WAY. SOFTER SPRINGS, BIGGER ROLL BARS. I AM NOW WILLING TO GIVE UP 10% OF TRACK PERFORMANCE FOR 50% INCREASE IN COMFORT. TRUST ME, DON'T GO DOWN THE ROAD TO THE DARKSIDE.
 
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how hard was it to install the steering rack bushings?

My suspension guy did them in about 1.5 hours. He said it was a bit of a pain since you have to take the rack apart.
 
SWAYS BARS! There are three ways to minimize roll. Springs, anti roll bars (sway bars) and lower CG. Springs give a harsher ride. Sways do not because as you go over bumps both wheels go up and down together.

If you are trying to get rid of the roll and minimize some of the understeer that Honda built in then go with the Dali bars front AND rear. They also are adjustable to let you fine tune it.

I have no need for a lower or harsher ride so sways seem to be the next step.

Why the Dali? Seems like I have read alot about a Zanardi / TypeR mix?
 
I have no need for a lower or harsher ride so sways seem to be the next step.

Why the Dali? Seems like I have read alot about a Zanardi / TypeR mix?

If it is for the street and you will never track, then Type R is fine. It will give you a much flatter and more confident ride. However, it will INCREASE understeer. It was designed for the Type R which weights less and also has much higher springs and dampening (600/500).

The reason I say Dali is because he matched a bigger front sway with even a bigger, bigger sway for the rear. This takes away some of the understeer bias that Honda built in. However it is also adjustable so you have three holes front and three holes rear to fine tune it.

I bet you that if I gave you one car that understeered a bit and another that was perfectly neutral that you would run faster lap times with the first. The understeer inspires confidence of safety that the rear isn't going to fly out from under you. However, after you got good enough and then learned to drive the neutral car, that car would indeed by faster. But you would have to have plenty of seat time learning to have the confidence to push it as hard as the understeering car.

Type R front and Zanardi rear would do the same, however you would have no adjustability and you are pulling parts out of the bin that were designed for completely different setups (springs/dampers, weight).

If you are only looking for a more confident inspiring street setup and won't be four wheel drifting out of corners.... put the Type R on the front (fits better with the Type R chassis bars) and be done with it. Yes the car will understeer a bit more, but it will FEEL much better up until that point.
 
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Type R front and Zanardi rear would do the same, however you would have no adjustability and you are pulling parts out of the bin that were designed for completely different setups (springs/dampers, weight).

If you are only looking for a more confident inspiring street setup and won't be four wheel drifting out of corners.... put the Type R on the front (fits better with the Type R chassis bars) and be done with it. Yes the car will understeer a bit more, but it will FEEL much better up until that point.

So just put the TypeR on front and leave the OEM rear?
 
I HAVE DRIVEN STOCK NSXs ON THE TRACK AND THEY ARE VERY CAPABLE AS IS. YOU WILL NOT BE EXCEEDING THE LIMITS OF THE CAR ON THE STREET. IF YOU ARE, THEN YOU ARE A VERY, VERY BAD BOY. AFTER SPENDING THREE YEARS WITH A COMPTECH PRO (1000/600 LB SPRINGS) I AM GOING THE OTHER WAY. SOFTER SPRINGS, BIGGER ROLL BARS. I AM NOW WILLING TO GIVE UP 10% OF TRACK PERFORMANCE FOR 50% INCREASE IN COMFORT. TRUST ME, DON'T GO DOWN THE ROAD TO THE DARKSIDE.

i have 1000/1000 lb springs on my car and they are quite firm. but with the shocks at full soft it's acceptable for a street car, you just gotta watch out for ground clearance. otoh the body control is amazing, even with the stock front sway bar and no rear. that's in NC, in MN they'd be way too stiff.
 
So just put the TypeR on front and leave the OEM rear?

yep. Type R fits best.

Even with the spacers for the R chassis bars I could never get my Dali bar (street/track or track bar) to fit without rubbing so I took the bottom chassis bar off.

If and only if you feel like the car is understeering too much then you can always add a Zanardi rear or Dali rear latter. But I bet you will be more than happy with just the type R in the front. You would have to be right at the limits of the car to notice that it's understeering. However, the cessation of the body roll will be noticeable at any speed and make it feel great with just the front bar.
 
i have 1000/1000 lb springs on my car and they are quite firm. but with the shocks at full soft it's acceptable for a street car, you just gotta watch out for ground clearance. otoh the body control is amazing, even with the stock front sway bar and no rear. that's in NC, in MN they'd be way too stiff.

I felt the same way until I had a student with a stock NSX. Then I thought, "what have I done?" The key to your response is the same thing I use to say - "acceptable". I am going to much, much softer springs and larger sways front and rear. 10% loss of performace and 50% gain in comfort. BTW: I ran the exact same lap times as before all within a 10th of sec of each other.

BTW: Jtower - your JIC suspension is 506# F and 564# R (if he got them at SOS their version subs 671# for the front).
 
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Thanks for the info. Best place to buy the TypeR front sway?
 
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tuning a street driving nsx is not a logical move.

to OP, what would you like to accomplish? If you don't know what you don't like about your car, or what you want. Why modify the car just because all the others do??
 
I felt the same way until I had a student with a stock NSX. Then I thought, "what have I done?" The key to your response is the same thing I use to say - "acceptable". I am going to much, much softer springs and larger sways front and rear. 10% loss of performace and 50% gain in comfort. BTW: I ran the exact same lap times as before all within a 10th of sec of each other.

BTW: Jtower - your JIC suspension is 506# F and 564# R (if he got them at SOS their version subs 671# for the front).
10% loss in performance from softer springs? Softer springs usually generate more grip. C'mon CL65, it's Damping, we're not making them wetter ;)


1000/1000 is a pretty bad spring split, put some 800s on the rear at a minimum.
 
That's why I suggested just installing the Type R front and be done.

It will reduce body roll without going to stiffer springs. The reduction of body roll will make the car feel tighter, inspire confidence and make highway on ramps more fun.

THERE IS NO POINT IN TUNING FOR THE STREET. YOU WILL NEVER APPROACH THE LIMITS OF THE CAR EVEN AS SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO TERM IT IN THE "TWISTIES". MAYBE, IF I HAD A KILO OF COKE IN THE TRUNK WITH THE 5-0 CHASING ME I WOULD (OR UNLESS YOU ARE STUNTMAN).

So... mods for the street should make the car feel better during "aggressive" driving - ie back roads, highway on ramps, etc. A sway bar is the easiest and cheapest way to make the car "feel" better.
 
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10% loss in performance from softer springs? Softer springs usually generate more grip. C'mon CL65, it's Damping, we're not making them wetter ;)


1000/1000 is a pretty bad spring split, put some 800s on the rear at a minimum.

You knew what I was getting at. :rolleyes: At a certain point you look at your car and think, "I've turned my street car into a track car." After 3 years I thought the Comp Pros were too much of an inconvenience for the gain in performance.

BTW: He pulled the 1000/1000 out of his ass. His car has the SOS JICs. 671/564.
 
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tuning a street driving nsx is not a logical move.

to OP, what would you like to accomplish? If you don't know what you don't like about your car, or what you want. Why modify the car just because all the others do??

Same thing I was trying to do with the chassis bars. Make the car a bit tighter and handle better.

Not sure it has anything to do with what anyone else is doing.
 
ah, i went back and looked at the seller notes and found this:

"The suspension is the SoS spec JIC suspension, 10K front, 10K rear"

i misread that as 1000lb springs f/r. so now i'm wondering what the 10k refers to?

10 (kg / mm) = 559.974146 pounds / in

kg/mm to lbs/in
-----------------------------
16 = 896
15 = 840
14 = 784
13 = 728
12 = 672
11 = 616
10 = 560
9.0 = 504
8.5 = 476
8.0 = 448
7.5 = 420
7.0 = 392
6.5 = 364
6.0 = 336
5.5 = 308
5.0 = 280
4.5 = 252
4.0 = 224
3.0 = 168
2.0 = 11
 
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10 (kg / mm) = 559.974146 pounds / in

damn, i'm going to have to give back my mechanical engineering degree for missing that obvious conversion. guess i spent too much time supporting the domestic auto industry and their silly non-metric ways. of course, a proper spring measurement would be in newtons (force) instead kg (mass) but i digress.
 
damn, i'm going to have to give back my mechanical engineering degree for missing that obvious conversion. guess i spent too much time supporting the domestic auto industry and their silly non-metric ways. of course, a proper spring measurement would be in newtons (force) instead kg (mass) but i digress.
Germans use Newtons, Japanese use Kilograms, US uses Pounds. PITA when you work with both, which is why I have a conversion table for all 3 on excel -throw in motion ratios and wheel rates and it makes it even more fun/complex.
 
Germans use Newtons, Japanese use Kilograms, US uses Pounds. PITA when you work with both, which is why I have a conversion table for all 3 on excel -throw in motion ratios and wheel rates and it makes it even more fun/complex.

In simple terms - what is wheel rate and motion ratios?
 
In simple terms - what is wheel rate and motion ratios?

Nevermind - google is my friend.

Wheel rates are expressed in the same units as spring rates. For example, say the car weighs 3000 pounds and this mass is divided equally between all four wheels, giving a static load of 750 pounds per wheel. When you lower the car onto its suspension, you find the wheel rises by 3 inches as it supports the weight. 750/3 gives a wheel rate of 250 pounds/inch.
 
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