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NSX ─ Light weight LITHIUM Iron Phosphate batteries (LiFePO4) options

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The owner's manual states the following:

Battery TypesThere are two types of batteries used in this vehicle; a standard 12-volt battery that powers the airbags, the interior and exterior lights, and other standard 12-volt systems; and a High Voltage battery that is used to power the propulsion motors and recharge the 12-volt battery.

From the initial press media release:
NSX Direct Drive Motor
To help eliminate the response delay typically associated with turbocharged engines, the Direct Drive Motor acts directly on the engine’s crankshaft which, together with the front-mounted TMU, helps the NSX realize immediate, high-output and high-torque acceleration. The effectiveness of this design is particularly noticeable when accelerating from a standstill at low engine speeds.
The NSX utilizes its Direct Drive Motor to start the engine instead of using a conventional 12-volt engine starter motor. Eliminating the 12-volt starter ring gear reduced weight and layout complexity. To help improve fuel efficiency, the NSX comes equipped with idle stop capability. Using the powerful Direct Drive Motor as an engine starter ensures that engine restarts are smooth and quick. Engine idle-stop is also fully integrated into the operation of the Automatic Brake Hold system. Additionally, the Direct Drive Motor acts as a generator, helping to maintain the hybrid batteries at full charge to consistently support driver demands under almost any condition—even while lapping a track at full bore.
The Direct Drive Motor has a liquid cooling passage that provides consistent cooling, even when the system is being pushed to the limit, such as on a track excursion.


I am really confident that the 12 volt battery is used only to power all the ECUs and the various accessories and NOT the Direct Drive Motor attached to the engine. As for why a 600 CCA 12 Volt Battery: You need high output so that in emergencies things like emergency flashers can work for hours, etcetera. A lithium battery has power but only for short bursts.
A lithium battery cannot supply a steady current as does a lead acid battery like our 12 volt battery. So keep in mind if you replace the 12 volt battery with a lithium battery you will need to keep a special tender on the car. Not a big deal. I have also enclosed the 12 volt battery system that shows how it works in the car.

Chawumba said:
DO NOT use an antigravity battery with restart technology. I tried one and it turned itself off every 3rd drive. Something about the NSX electrical system. You just need the basic lithium battery in a small size. Battery doesn't even start the engine.

I did some research and came across a few Lithium batteries that were lightweight, having different price points and warranties. There has been some debate that some AntiGravity Lithium batteries that have the restart technology interfere with the electrical system of the NSX by turning itself off. I am not sure if this was happening because there was not a battery tender conencted or something else, however I am sure there is some more research to be done. I hope this is a start and answers some questions for us who are doing some research. None of the batteries mentioned below are direct plug and play (due to different LxWxH dimensions), and would require some modification (custom bracket to make it fit properly) unless you buy a H5/Group 24 size battery.

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OEM Battery AGM 12V H5/Group 24 (600CCA)

Part: 31500-T6N-AGM100M
LxWxH: 9.5x7x7.5 inches
Weight: Approx. 40lb
Price: $325


SHORAI
Model: LFX36A3-BS12 (36AH)
LxWxH: 6.5x3.5x7
Weight: 4.96lb
Warranty: 3 years
Price: $330
Link:

DAKOTA Lithium
Model: 12v 23Ah Battery

Amp hours: 23Ah
LxWxH: 7x3x6.5
Weight: 6.4 lbs
Price: $249
Warranty: 11 years
Link:


ANTIGRAVITY
Model: ATX-30-HD

Amp hours: 24Ah (48 PbEq)
LxWxH: 6.5x5x6.8”
Weight: 7.8 lbs
Price: $560
Warranty: 5 years (3 direct replacement & final 2 pro-rated)
Link:


AO Lithium
Model: 12V 33Ah
Amp hours: 33Ah
LxWxH: 7.7x5x6.5
Weight: 8.6 lbs
Warranty: 5 years
Price: $199
Link:


ZEUS Battery
Model: PCLFP30-12.8M6

Amp hours: 30Ah
LxWxH:7.7x5x7
Weight: 10.4lbs
Price: $275
Warranty: 1 year from date of manufacturing
LinK:

Ampere Time
Model: 50Ah Lithium LiFePO4 Battery

Weight: 11.6lbs
LxWxH: 7.8x6.5x6.7
Warranty: 5 years
Price: $220
Link:

ChargeX Lithium
Model:
12V 35AH Ion Battery
Amp hours: 30Ah
LxWxH:7x5x7
Weight: 12lbs
Price: $450
Warranty: 5 years
Link:

EARTH X
Model: ETX1600
Amp hours: 32Ah
LxWxH: 6.5x5.1x6.6in
Weight: 8.9lbs
Price: $899
Link:


NOTE:
How does "PbEq AH" capacity rating compare to lead-acid Ah ratings?

Lithium batteries compare ONLY in cranking power (starting Amps), but NOT in capacity (Amp-hour). To bring the cost closer to lead-acid, lithium battery manufacturers take advantage of the 3-4 times higher cranking power (starting Amps) and reduce the capacity (in Amp-hour) i.e. capacity is typically 3-4 times LESS than a lead-acid battery it is meant to replace. Some lithium battery manufacturers use the term PbEq (lead-acid equivalent) to make it easier for a consumer to choose an equivalent lithium replacement, but it is equivalent only in cranking power (Cranking Amps), not overall capacity (in Amp-hour). For that reason it can be 5-8 times lighter (pnds / kg). Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries have a power density 3-4 times higher than lead-acid, in other words, a lithium battery of the same Amp-hour capacity as a sealed AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) lead-acid can deliver 3-4 times higher cranking power. A lithium battery can deliver its rated cranking Amps down to 10% charge remaining where-as a lead-acid battery delivers it’s rated cranking Amps at 50% or more charge remaining, below that cranking Amps reduces rapidly. A lithium battery will maintain a higher voltage for longer when delivering current.
 
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Let me add to what you provided. The CTEK Litium battery tender is around $90 from Amazon. It will use the same connectors as does the OEM setup in our NSX assuming you were using the lead acid battery and Acura NSX branded tender. I am thinking about getting the H5 Lithium battery from Antigravity that is an exact drop in to our OEM Lead acid battery. At under 9 pounds it is a major weight savings. The only issue is will the re start feature make it not useable? It will require plugging in the tender after every drive. I will advise….
 
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NSX Antigravity H5 /Group 47 Lithium battery

Let me add to what you provided. The CTEK Litium battery tender is around $90 from Amazon. It will use the same connectors as does the OEM setup in our NSX assuming you were using the lead acid battery and Acura NSX branded tender.
I am thinking about getting the H5 Lithium battery from Antigravity that is an exact drop in to our OEM Lead acid battery. At under 9 pounds it is a major weight savings. The only issue is will the re start feature make it not useable? It will require plugging in the tender after every drive. I will advise….

As far as I know, Antigravity currently are the only ones that have a drop in Lithium Lightweight battery for the NSX as its an H5 /Group 47 battery. It does have the Restart feature, (which basically acts as a safety feature) e.g if you left your lights on, or there is a parasitic draw over a few days draining the battery, the intelligent Battery Management System (BMS) in the battery would put itself to sleep before being completely dead, (saving just enough energy to start your vehicle again)

That is a nice feature to have as it will retain enough juice for cranking, however as many have confirmed that the NSX utilizes its Direct Drive Motor to start the engine instead of conventional 12-V engine starter motor, therefore the Antigravity restart feature wouldn’t be useful for the NSX. I don’t know why member @Chawumba was having issues with his Antigravity Lithium battery, but If I were to speculate, maybe a parasitic draw was probably causing that to happen (would require diagnostics to confirm).

I personally wouldn’t go for a lightweight battery unless it was under 10lb. The Antigravity battery comes in a few sizes, and I believe the one that has 24 Amp Hours at 8.5lb for $659.95 would be a good choice.

H5 Group-47 Lithium Car Battery.png
 
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Actually the Re start feature is a good feature to have for our cars. While the 12 volt battery does not turn the motor and start the car, it does energize the ECU and other Modules that allow the traction battery to start the car. If our battery runs down to a certain voltage, not only will the car not start, but you cannot open the car door without damaging the rubber molding. The window must drop a few centimeters to clear before the door can be opened properly. There is a special procedure should your battery be completely dead. Actually it is the reverse. You can pull the door open, but unless you energies the system, the window will be all the way up and when closed damage the molding. Got it turned around.

So the Re start feature completely disconnects the battery if the voltage drops to around 12 volts. You can then use the wireless remote and turn it back on and successfully start the car and or open the door.

I just learned that the Antigravity battery ATX30 RS that has the Re Start feature only has 16 Amp hours of storage. This is the battery that Chawumba may have had trouble with? For a track car with few accessories it would be good. However if you are driving on the street with everything working but are idling the car you could exceed what the charging system puts out. There is not a lot of reserve.

The other battery that was tried and seemed to work better was the ATX30-HD. It has 24 Amp hours of reserve. It does not have the Re start feature, so you could if left without a tender over a period of time completely discharge enough to prevent the car from starting. So perhaps it was not the Re start feature that was the problem but the reduced Amp hour rating. The Re start feature only comes into play when your battery drops at or below 12 volts.

Having learned this I will probably go with the H5 at 24 Amp hours with ReStart.

first, I just purchased a battery checker which attaches to the battery and can measure charging level while driving. I want to verify that the car charges while the engine is running as well as in EV mode. Will advise.
 
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Is that similar the the CTEK Battery monitor?

No, the Ancel unit is much more comprehensive and less expensive. It relies on your phone's display. It is more identical to the Antigravity units. I got it because of next day arrival. It appears that it is suited for Pb based battery technology, though I am not sure what that has to do with charging and discharging. The Lithium batteries do tend to hover at a higher voltage than the Pb based batteries. Pb based batteries have a sulfide issue whereas the Lithium because of the chemistry don't. But as far as monitoring I don't understand what the difference would be.

Antigravity does sell a version for Lithium as well as Pb based. It is really inexpensive and unobtrusive. I will leave it on indefinitely as it pulls very little power and saves the data for when your phone is within blue tooth proximity. At around $35 it is a great addition. You can track your car's battery without a charger for a month. You can do the same thing when it is on a tender as well.
 

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I can relate to the 12 volt battery. Back when I was active in consulting I did a project with GNB which later became Excide Battery under Lutz. Bottom line I worked with their manufacturing plants as well as their reclamation operations where they reclaimed old 12 volt lead batteries. My responsibilities were to help them implement Lean Manufacturing techniques. Late 1990s.

It was and is today a very dirty business. There is so much lead in the air that the workers do blood tests sometimes weekly to track the amount of lead in their system. When it is high enough they have to work jobs that keep them away from the production area. The reclamation facility was so bad that it eventually closed. The land was given to the City of Los Angeles along with 20 million to lean things up. To date, the cost has been more like 200 million and climbing. The soil for miles around the plant is contaminated with lead. So 12 volt lead acid based batteries are a real issue.

As the article stated, most of the automotive systems are 12 volt based. So they will be with us for the near future. Lead is cheap even though it presents serious health issue in processing. I don’t see the industry changing anytime soon. Cost is the real driver here.
 
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I had an order in for one for around three months, then I canceled. I ended up getting a warranty battery from Tustin Acura. I still plan on getting one as the weight savings is really big. What about yourself?
 
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Not yet... still researching.... I may go for the Antigravity and call it a day, since its the exact size...
 
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You might want to contact Antigravity direct. They are in Southern California. One of my concerns is whether the NC1 charges the battery in a consistent manner. The Antigravity battery has a built in safe system that shuts down the battery if it is not being charged and falls below a certain voltage. It is an attempt to prevent a total battery drain. If it shuts down then you have to push a button on the battery to allow the reserve to come into action. I imagine if you keep the battery on a special tender for Lithium batteries then there should not be any problems. CTEK makes a charger specifically for Lithium batteries. The regular NSX charger from CTEK will not work properly with Lithium units. They also make a device that sits on the battery and via Bluetooth communicates to your phone about the status of charge. Again a specific unit for Lithium rather than GlassMat Lead Acid batteries. The 30 amp H5 from Antigravity seems like the way to go. It weighs in at around 12 pounds.
 
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For us in EU+UK there's this one:

I got it in my NA2 and it's plug and play in the OEM mount.
 
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You might want to contact Antigravity direct. They are in Southern California. One of my concerns is whether the NC1 charges the battery in a consistent manner. The Antigravity battery has a built in safe system that shuts down the battery if it is not being charged and falls below a certain voltage. It is an attempt to prevent a total battery drain. If it shuts down then you have to push a button on the battery to allow the reserve to come into action. I imagine if you keep the battery on a special tender for Lithium batteries then there should not be any problems. CTEK makes a charger specifically for Lithium batteries. The regular NSX charger from CTEK will not work properly with Lithium units. They also make a device that sits on the battery and via Bluetooth communicates to your phone about the status of charge. Again a specific unit for Lithium rather than GlassMat Lead Acid batteries. The 30 amp H5 from Antigravity seems like the way to go. It weighs in at around 12 pounds.

The NSX uses the hybrid battery to start, which is charged when being driven. The regular 12V battery is just to power on the electronics and other things that need power. I dont think that the 12V battery would require to be on a tender all the time, if its regularly being driven.
 
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Actually the Re start feature is a good feature to have for our cars. While the 12 volt battery does not turn the motor and start the car, it does energize the ECU and other Modules that allow the traction battery to start the car. If our battery runs down to a certain voltage, not only will the car not start, but you cannot open the car door without damaging the rubber molding. The window must drop a few centimeters to clear before the door can be opened properly. There is a special procedure should your battery be completely dead. Actually it is the reverse. You can pull the door open, but unless you energies the system, the window will be all the way up and when closed damage the molding. Got it turned around.

So the Re start feature completely disconnects the battery if the voltage drops to around 12 volts. You can then use the wireless remote and turn it back on and successfully start the car and or open the door.

I just learned that the Antigravity battery ATX30 RS that has the Re Start feature only has 16 Amp hours of storage. This is the battery that Chawumba may have had trouble with? For a track car with few accessories it would be good. However if you are driving on the street with everything working but are idling the car you could exceed what the charging system puts out. There is not a lot of reserve.

The other battery that was tried and seemed to work better was the ATX30-HD. It has 24 Amp hours of reserve. It does not have the Re start feature, so you could if left without a tender over a period of time completely discharge enough to prevent the car from starting. So perhaps it was not the Re start feature that was the problem but the reduced Amp hour rating. The Re start feature only comes into play when your battery drops at or below 12 volts.

Having learned this I will probably go with the H5 at 24 Amp hours with ReStart.

first, I just purchased a battery checker which attaches to the battery and can measure charging level while driving. I want to verify that the car charges while the engine is running as well as in EV mode. Will advise.

Seems there is a Black Friday code for 15% off...

1669214825891.png
 
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I hear you, I don’t like keeping my battery on a tender either. There is a device that is Bluetooth that connects directly to the battery and will measure the health of the battery. It will notify you when it drops to a point where you would want to hook up the tender. Really inexpensive and they make one for lead acid as well as lithium. Very little draw as well. Antigravity and Amazon sell them.

CTEK also has a device that shows the general battery charge. Not sure if it works well for the Lithium.
 
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