nsx vs. 996 vs. z06

[dvj]

New here as of today so if this horse has been beaten just ignore. I sat in but never drove an nsx. I thought the ergonomics were the best of any car I have seen. I love the muscle car products (I had LS1, vipers) but also have very much enjoyed my TT Supra. Love the looks and the rareness of the nsx. What are anyone thoughts who have driven 996, z06 but now drive nsx. Thanks in advance.

 

[Bryan]

Hi dvj,

Welcome aboard. You can use the search function (at the top of the page) to find previous discussions about z06s (22 topics) and 996s (68 topics). A few of the topics are pretty thorough discussions of differences in style and feel. As you might guess, most of us here prefer our NSXs

The ergonomics are great and it just gets better once you drive it.

 

[erobbins]

You're right - this horse has been beaten to death. In my opinion (I own a 996 and have driven a Z06... both at the track), both are technically superior cars to the NSX, both in technology and performance. No question. But, I prefer to drive the NSX both on the street and the track. It's a more "sophisticated" and "exotic" car (emotional content here).

EDR

 

[humanoidtyphoon]

I will agree that the 996 is a little above the NSX in the way of technical achievment, but I wouldn't go that far for the Z06. The Vette is lightning fast and very responsive, but I would say an NSX with boosted HP via a supercharger or turbo kit would be superior at the track if both are in the hands of a good driver.

If anything, I love comparing the NSX to the new Z06s and Porches of the world because it shows how far ahead of the pack the NSX was. It is amazing that the NSX is still competitive with the best cars of the days even though it is a 10 year old design.

[This message has been edited by humanoidtyphoon (edited 28 October 2001).]

 

[erobbins]

I agree... and my comments on this have been consistent. The NSX (by today's standards) would place third in a technical or performance competition between these three cars. It's a toss up between the 911 and the Z06. The 911 would probably win technical, while the Z06 would probably win performance.

BUT: Let's compare a 1991 NSX with a 1991 911 or 1991 Corvette. NSX Wins.

In 1997, I would still say the NSX wins (though the 911 is getting close).

But, in 2000/2001, the 996 series 911 has clearly surpassed the NSX in technical design (and performance, as well). Also, Chevrolet has done an AMAZING job with the Z06. I hate to admit it, but the Z06 is an incredible car - at any cost. I just won't drive one.

EDR

 

[Ponyboy]

Ok, I know a little extreme, but the Realtime Racing NSX competing in the Speedvision World Challenge series runs against the best the Corvette and 911 teams can muster. It's won the majority of races in the GT series. Given close HP ratings, the NSX seems very competitive.

Maybe not so extreme? Just a thought.

 

[Brian Bailey]

Save the fact that the NSX is the lightest car in GT, and allowed to add a supercharger. Add to that there are no suitably sized tires for the rear of the Vette. And Porsche isn't allowed to run either the GT3rs or either of the new Turbo's. Think that about sums it up.

Speedvision, while a great series, isn't a great place to draw relative performance comparisons from simply because the series is set-up to have like performing cars. They do this by mandating tire size, weight, intake restrictions, etc. If it were truly an open series, it would look much more like a Grand-Am or ALMS. Don't see many NSX's running there unfortunately.

Brian

 

[erobbins]

Originally posted by Ponyboy:
Ok, I know a little extreme, but the Realtime Racing NSX competing in the Speedvision World Challenge series runs against the best the Corvette and 911 teams can muster. It's won the majority of races in the GT series. Given close HP ratings, the NSX seems very competitive.

Trying to compare race-prepped vehicles in the Speedvision World Challenge or ALMS against their street-legal, showroom stock counterparts is silly.

Furthermore, many of these cars (like the 911 GT3R) are purpose built race vehicles. Cars that are converted from showroom stock (like the RTR NSX) are only vaguely similar to the original car. Have you looked at the RTR NSX? Many of the components (like suspension modifications) are custom fabricated by RTR and not even available to the public. If you ever get a chance to see it, stick your head underneath the butt-end and look at the rear beam for an example.

EDR

 

[ilya]

Not taking anything away from the NSX, but Cunningham is the biggest reason for the speedvision victories. He could probably find a way to lead the pack in almost any one of the cars. Fortuntely for us, he prefers the NSX which speaks volumes for the car.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

PD Cunningham had said in the article before, that he believes the NSX will outhandle almost any car out there.

 

[humanoidtyphoon]

I agree with erobbins...it is silly to compare race prepped cars....I mean does anyone really think the S4 is in the same class as the NSX? Getting back to the original question however about the 996 vs. Z06 vs. NSX after watching the newest edition of Best Motoring a few minutes ago, in a head to head comparison with several cars...the Porche was quicker around the wet track than the NSX. Now, I realize there are many variables that factor into this that could put any car above the other...it could just show how the NSX is ageing performance wise. However, it is also shows just how amazing the NSX is that it can still be competitieve after all of these years. By the way, suprisingly the EVO VII came in first in the battle of the cars. NSX was fourth followed by the new BMW M3, the Suburu Impreza, and a tuned RX-7. The Skyline GT-R also finished in third ahead of the NSX. All in all ver interesting.

 

[BB]

Originally posted by humanoidtyphoon:
does anyone really think the S4 is in the same class as the NSX?

Sure! The previous owner of my car sold his '91 NSX because he could get a NEW yellow S4 for about the same amount of money. I could never understand it, but then again I choose the NSX so what do I know?

 

[humanoidtyphoon]

You can mod the hell out of an S4 to make it fast....but you can mod the hell out of a brick and make it fast too. I gotta say I really like the S4 though.

 

[nsxtasy]

They're such different kinds of vehicles, though. The S4 is a 4WD luxury sedan (or wagon). Fairly powerful, sure-footed, heavy (as most 4WD vehicles are), a good all-around performer that can take you to the theater in a blizzard. The NSX is a RWD high-performance sports car - even the early ones had 20 more hp and weighed 600 pounds less than the S4. Perfect for carving deserted mountain roads or the racetrack.

Reminds me of something my dealer once told me, that the chief competition they saw for prospective buyers of a new NSX was not another sports car, but rather, a boat.

 

[Ponyboy]

Please note that I'm discussing the performance level of the cars in question. And I didn't say squat about ALMS or Grand Am.

AND I did put a semi-sort-of qualifer in my "silly" post. And so. . .

I agree with myself. . .and if I want to compare the design of a midengine race car that is VAGUELY similiar to the car I own against a rearengine race car VAGUELY similiar to the another dude owns, guess what, I will. Get used to it. Especially if the series they're in requires them to be competitive with each other. What I won't do is call another person's thoughts silly. I enjoy another person's POV too much.

Have I seen the RTR NSX? I don't even know what that is. New JDM version of the NSX?Just kidding. Seriously, I haven't had the opportunity to see the Realtime NSX up close. Only in pix. But I'll take your word for it.

My point is this: all things considered equal (hp, tires, award weight, etc) or as close to equal as possible, a midengine racer is going to be ahead of front driver or a rearengined car. Put all wheel drive in the equation and that makes things interesting.

Now I know what you guys are talking about, I think. A stock brand-spanking new NSX vs. a stock 911 vs. a stock Corvette. But I don't think a 996 is a stock 911 or a Z06 a stock Corvette. Maybe a better comparision is a stock NSX-R vs. the aforementioned competitors is a better comparision? Who says this is beat to death? Either I'll post the results of a "forum" search tomorrow or someone else may beat me to it.

And I certainly agree that PD is probably the biggest reason for the NSX's success. The team as a whole deserves a lot of respect.

 

[humanoidtyphoon]

Your posts are NOT silly.....I love you PonyBoy!!!!

 

[nsxtasy]

I don't think a 996 is a stock 911 or a Z06 a stock Corvette.

A 996 is a stock 911. Unless I'm mistaken, all the current-generation 911's are considered to have the 996 designation.

Perhaps you intended to say that you don't think a 911 GT2 is a stock (IOW, base-model) 911?

 

[erobbins]

Originally posted by Ponyboy:
My point is this: all things considered equal (hp, tires, award weight, etc) or as close to equal as possible, a midengine racer is going to be ahead of front driver or a rearengined car. Put all wheel drive in the equation and that makes things interesting.

But all things in the case outlined aren't equal. The Realtime Racing (RTR) NSX is employing a Vortech supercharger, while the other NA vehicles against which it is competing are required to retain their stock configuration. Moreover, there are a number of custom fabricated one-off components and significant modifications to the body of the car that make it similar only in chassis and appearance to a stock NSX. Interestingly enough, even with all these changes, the car still had the stock black leather shift knob when I went over it at Texas, the first race of the 2001 season.

But I don't think a 996 is a stock 911 or a Z06 a stock Corvette. Maybe a better comparision is a stock NSX-R vs. the aforementioned competitors is a better comparision?

Two points: First, the 996 series Porsche is a stock 911. I should know. I own one. There are variants, such as the Carrera 4, Turbo, GT2 and GT3, but these are ALL showroom stock vehicles, as they can be purchased at a dealership, registered, and operated on a public road. Race-prepped variants such as the GT3R and GT3RS are a different story. Second, I consider the Z06 a stock Corvette, for the same reason. It is a street-legal showroom stock vehicle. It is nothing more than a variant of the base Corvette, no different than a convertible. There really isn't THAT much difference between a base C5 and the Z06.

And I certainly agree that PD is probably the biggest reason for the NSX's success. The team as a whole deserves a lot of respect.

Put most any other driver in the World Challenge series in the RTR NSX and they will lose miserably. At that level of racing, it's not the car... it's the driver.

EDR

 

[Jimbo]

I think that the original point of the thread was to compare the current 911 (996) and the Z06 to the 1997-2001 NSX.

Both the 911 and Vette have narrowed the gap in all regards considerably. Of course, each car narrowed different gaps in varying amounts.

The Porsche was always a quality vehicle with technical sophistication and the latest version is even more so. The rear engine placement is not the quirky handicap as was once the case in the earlier cars (although even some Porsche-philes will occassionally admit that the Boxster has better handling characteristics).

The Vette has come a long way too. The quality is MUCH, MUCH improved over the previous generations, although I think it's fair to say that it's still not up to the standard in the NSX or the 911. There's a certain level of technical sophistication (titanium exhaust, light weight, etc), but the purists will still bemoan that it's a pushrod-equipped big American V8.However, the raw performance of the Z06 (and even the standard C5) is truly amazing. I think it's fair to say that all things being equal (i.e. driver skill) a Z06 will easily outrun a NSX and a 911 on just about any track (including a drag strip, if anyone cares about that). When you consider the price, of around $45K that's impressive.

(I think it's also fair to point out that the Vette is more amenable to HP modification that either the 911 or the NSX. It doesn't take a lot of modification to coax out another 50 HP)

I think the challenge for Honda with the next generation of NSX is to once again raise the standard. It's going to be very difficult to obtain such a quantum leap advantage as they enjoyed in 1991. I frankly don't see that happening, after all the C4 Vette was a pretty ratty vehicle (although the ZR-1 was quick and handled decently on the track). But I do think it's possible for the next generation NSX to maintain the lead in overall balanced performance, technical sophistication and quality.

The only question in my mind is....

Will I find the styling of the next generation NSX to be as elegant and beautiful as the first?

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[Ponyboy]

True all things aren't equal in this case and that's why series oranganizers try to negate or diminsh inherent advantages one car has over another. Like, the handling advantages of a midengine car over a rear driver or a front driver. I think we can all agree the NSX is underpowered in comparision. Put in a "supa"charger and things change considerably.

My bad, when someone says 996 I automatically think of a GT2 or a 3. They are showroom stock. . .showroom stock race cars. . .for club racing. And the difference is pretty significant between a stock c5 and a ZO6. I think it's about 60 horses and quite a bit of suspension tuning and a few pounds lighter and a few thousand more. Twenty bucks says both C5 and ZO6 owners will disagree with you on that one. I been with all of these cars on the track and the ZO6 was definitely impressive.

PD is a great driver. And at that level of racing, I agree, a lot of success is attributable to the one driving. But if that's the case then Mike Galati could possibly do as well. Or maybe even Mike Fitzgerald who, I think, drives one of the Realtime Integras could do pretty well. But I also gotta think that putting Michael Schumacher in a Minardi is not going to produce a top 10 result. Putting Button in the Renault didn't. So the car is pretty important too.

 

[Ponyboy]

I'M FEELING THE LOVE TYPHOON!!

 

[nsxtasy]

The 996 (all variants) and the Corvette (all variants) are definitely impressive machines, comparable to our beloved NSX in many respects, even exceeding it in some. The same can be said of the 360 Modena, the BMW M3, and the Dodge Viper. All deserve praise. Together with the NSX, these are the models that define the high-performance sportscar market segment. I think it's fair to say that, if there weren't an NSX, most of us would be driving one of these other models.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Having driven all three extensively (although I have not driven either the Z06 or 996 on the track) I can say that all three have good merits. IMO, the Z06 distinguishes it self with a very powerful engine with a very broad and useable power band. The 996 possesses an excellent suspension and chassis, especially impressive with a weight configuration that 'seems' wrong. A current model NSX compared to these current model sports cars does not exceed or surpass in any one area. The NSX does everything well, epitomizing Honda's NSX design methodology of optimizing driver comfort, performance, and reliability. That trait, IMO, makes it an extremely unique car.

Certain individuals will latch on to specific traits of one, making each car the optimal choice for that particular individual (which is why many people are perfectly ok with their 4-door Honda Accord that gets 30+mpg).

-- Chris

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www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
www.NSXClassifieds.com - The internet's only exclusive NSX Classified site!

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Instead of comparing the regular NSX, what about the Zanardi oe TypeR? IMO, this is more of an Apple/Apple comparison. The Z06 is, to me, like a "type-R/Zanardi" model.

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Kenji Ligon
91 Red CTSC NSX

 

[NUK3M]

i'd take the NSX even if it were a 4 cylinder.

but then again i'd take a civic over a corvette anyday. It has better styling.