Really not even single one ....you must be kidding !
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Opinions on HKS F-Con VPro vs. AEM EMS Series 2
- Thread starter RYU
- Start date
Really not even single one ....you must be kidding !
Thread resurrection.
I'm now currently knee deep into an HKS F-Con iS path to success (I hope). At the end of the day I was not comfortable with our local tuners except for one. He'll only tune HKS and Motec and has a reputation bordering wizardry. I'm lucky to call him my friend and I consider him doing me a favor really.
Wish me luck!
I will update this thread in the coming weeks. I've come to respect the high quality hardware the F-Con is. It's a shame there is no longer any N.America support for the products.
Dave - if you were local i'd have hunted you down until you took my money!
I'm now currently knee deep into an HKS F-Con iS path to success (I hope). At the end of the day I was not comfortable with our local tuners except for one. He'll only tune HKS and Motec and has a reputation bordering wizardry. I'm lucky to call him my friend and I consider him doing me a favor really.
Wish me luck!
I will update this thread in the coming weeks. I've come to respect the high quality hardware the F-Con is. It's a shame there is no longer any N.America support for the products.
Dave - if you were local i'd have hunted you down until you took my money!
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I realized this thread is about the VPro vs. EMS while I decided to go with the iS which is effectively a "piggyback". Oh well, i'll continue to post here in case this can be helpful to someone else.
On top of the iS I'm using the sensor pack which is called the iF. The F-Con system (iS & VPro) can read from all the factory sensors but on the NSX there are some sensors not available from the Honda. Here's the initial setup i'm going with. I will add features as needed.
F-Con iS - Piggyback for OBD1 or OBD2
ECU Jumper Harness - Custom Built. HKS Japan doesn't sell a jumper harness specifically for the NSX.
Sensor Signals - If the factory ECU can display it, evidently the iS can read it. This is very exciting for me since I was not aware there was a "piggyback" unit aware of reading the native NSX OBD1 signal. These can be displayed via the 18 display (3 screens @ 6 sensor readouts for each screen displayed via composite video native from the iS; no CAMP unit needed). These include Engine rpm, Vehicle Speed, MAP output voltage, Throttle Position, Water Temperature, Intake Air Temperature, Battery Voltage, Injector Duration, Oil Pressure.
External Sensors - For other sensors the iF unit is needed. It's like a expansion pack for sensors. I'm using external sensors to pick up the following: Fuel Pressure, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure (because the OEM unit isn't great), EGT. I may upgrade to a more accurate IAT sensor and Boost/Vac pressure sensor to bypass OEM signals.
AF Knock Amp - This is HKS's version of a "UEGO" from what I can tell. The iS doesn't rely on widebands as mandatory inputs but it can be incorporated and I believe it has compensation tables if you have wideband O2s installed. I'm still looking into this but i've got them on order. Widebands aren't needed for daily operation but they are needed for tuning.
I will still have all my Zeitronix sensors running parallel for a while. This will help me figure out sensor calibrations and such. Pretty excited about everything.
p.s. the HKS hardware quality is top notch. I'm impressed with that so far...
On top of the iS I'm using the sensor pack which is called the iF. The F-Con system (iS & VPro) can read from all the factory sensors but on the NSX there are some sensors not available from the Honda. Here's the initial setup i'm going with. I will add features as needed.
F-Con iS - Piggyback for OBD1 or OBD2
ECU Jumper Harness - Custom Built. HKS Japan doesn't sell a jumper harness specifically for the NSX.
Sensor Signals - If the factory ECU can display it, evidently the iS can read it. This is very exciting for me since I was not aware there was a "piggyback" unit aware of reading the native NSX OBD1 signal. These can be displayed via the 18 display (3 screens @ 6 sensor readouts for each screen displayed via composite video native from the iS; no CAMP unit needed). These include Engine rpm, Vehicle Speed, MAP output voltage, Throttle Position, Water Temperature, Intake Air Temperature, Battery Voltage, Injector Duration, Oil Pressure.
External Sensors - For other sensors the iF unit is needed. It's like a expansion pack for sensors. I'm using external sensors to pick up the following: Fuel Pressure, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure (because the OEM unit isn't great), EGT. I may upgrade to a more accurate IAT sensor and Boost/Vac pressure sensor to bypass OEM signals.
AF Knock Amp - This is HKS's version of a "UEGO" from what I can tell. The iS doesn't rely on widebands as mandatory inputs but it can be incorporated and I believe it has compensation tables if you have wideband O2s installed. I'm still looking into this but i've got them on order. Widebands aren't needed for daily operation but they are needed for tuning.
I will still have all my Zeitronix sensors running parallel for a while. This will help me figure out sensor calibrations and such. Pretty excited about everything.
p.s. the HKS hardware quality is top notch. I'm impressed with that so far...
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- 10 August 2010
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What are the advantages of the HKS unit over the AEM EMS? and what is the price?
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I'm far from an expert in either. I think each has their pros/cons. hybrdthry911 - you probably know all of this already...
AEM has an "open" model in terms of making their software available to virtually anyone. HKS had a network of "Pro Dealers" where not just anyone could qualify to be given the security key and software to access the programmable features - Two different business models. Pricing wise HKS costs more than AEM but much less than Motec. HKS is similar to ProEFI in terms of the pricing i've researched. So it will probably be similar to the AEM Infinity 10 all in.
Some of the pros/cons of the features set have been hashed out in this thread but as I learn more about the product i'll update this thread. I went with the old saying... "Go with the platform your tuner is most comfortable with"
If you're familiar with circuit boards and layout it's easy to see the better build quality and higher quality components of the HKS vs. AEM. The HKS reminds of the OEM ECUs in this regard.
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I'm glad they have improved because I have several old school HKS items, like from a decade ago, and let me tell you they are complete junk. Bolt holes in the wrong places, missing parts, intercooler tubes bent incorrectly... My Fcons wire harness fell apart as the glue cracked, there were bad connections on their harness... They didn't fit where they were supposed to, I mean all kinds of problems. That was a long time ago though, and that is what really turned me off to aftermarket stuff and for the next 15 years I never touched an OEM car. The NSX is what I started with again and I am really really careful.
Anyway that was just a rant from the past. LOL... From what I hear most guys that have used AEM and the Fpro like the HKS unit better as it is more capable. I never even knew they made a piggyback until this thread. So I will take you lead and see what you come up with here because you are thorough.
Anyway that was just a rant from the past. LOL... From what I hear most guys that have used AEM and the Fpro like the HKS unit better as it is more capable. I never even knew they made a piggyback until this thread. So I will take you lead and see what you come up with here because you are thorough.
^ that sucks. Sorry to hear that Dave. You and I know there are a lot of junk JDM parts as well (even from the same manufacturer). I think this occurs when they start farming out work outside of Japan.
The HKS F-Con iS is their latest piggyback unit. The F-Con VPro is their standalone but can also perform as a piggyback depending on the configuration. The pros I see with the iS, and ultimately why I went with it, are the following.
- Allows me to use to the OEM ECU for all basic commands like engine startup procedures and control of fans, AC, etc and in your case DBW... At the end of the day I just didn't need all the features of a full standalone when the iS could do so much already (imho).
- The iS is capable of advancing timing. The AEM F/IC can only retard timing. This feature kind of blew me away and i'm eager to see how well it works.
- The iS is also capable of built-in video output for sensor readouts from OEM sensors and External add-on sensors. The VPro needs the CAMP2 unit to work. The CAMP2 has way more bells and whistles as far as display options but the iS does the job well enough.
I might go down the path of VPro later but that's when I have a built motor. It can control timing and fueling for each cylinder and them some. It's crazy...
The HKS F-Con iS is their latest piggyback unit. The F-Con VPro is their standalone but can also perform as a piggyback depending on the configuration. The pros I see with the iS, and ultimately why I went with it, are the following.
- Allows me to use to the OEM ECU for all basic commands like engine startup procedures and control of fans, AC, etc and in your case DBW... At the end of the day I just didn't need all the features of a full standalone when the iS could do so much already (imho).
- The iS is capable of advancing timing. The AEM F/IC can only retard timing. This feature kind of blew me away and i'm eager to see how well it works.
- The iS is also capable of built-in video output for sensor readouts from OEM sensors and External add-on sensors. The VPro needs the CAMP2 unit to work. The CAMP2 has way more bells and whistles as far as display options but the iS does the job well enough.
I might go down the path of VPro later but that's when I have a built motor. It can control timing and fueling for each cylinder and them some. It's crazy...
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Thread Bump.
Regan, have you made any changes to your fcon ? Is it still working as well as you expected?
Regan, have you made any changes to your fcon ? Is it still working as well as you expected?
I upgraded to the F-Con Vpro stand alone. I wanted some of the bells and whistles the iS didn't have. Couldn't be happier with the HKS products.
Will the F-Con Vpro control a DBW unit ? I am starting to look at options for my NA2, which has an OBD1 ECU (euro model..) so i'm OBD1 and DBW !! How weird is that, anyway i'm curious to know what i can do, HKS, AEM, E-Manage Ultimate ?
What version ? I have 3.3 and if you need i can give you my setup/maps free of charge ! Do "you" have HKS dongle ? You need to make V-tech box (picture) AND IF you have NA2
Add resistors to OEM ingnition outputs ( Your DBW will go limp mode if you dont add resistors).
Maatsi
HKS Fcon v-pro power writer Shop
AMW Dyno Service
- - - Updated - - -
DWB system has Own ECU , Just keep your OEM ecu inputs and outputs "happy" you dont have problems ! HKS needs dongle key to operate sofware! If you dont have HKS certifield dealers in your area
HKS is not your choice. I have good AEM series 2 ecu( SOS based piggy system)) maps for NA2 cars if needed . + some tips
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Thanks for the replies. Still in the research phases.
Glad to hear your still happy with their product. From checking their US site, it seems as they have a few new dealers.
Glad to hear your still happy with their product. From checking their US site, it seems as they have a few new dealers.
[MENTION=30520]Zoom[/MENTION] I believe it supports dbw but I have never tried it. You might want to look at the aem Infinity as well. The problem you'll have with the HKS is trying to find tuners for it.
[MENTION=22066]Operator[/MENTION] thank you! I will let you know. I have v3.3 yes. It's nice to see some HKS users here
[MENTION=27486]DreamPowered[/MENTION] if I had an na2 I'd probably use the piggyback fcon iS. I really like how HKS optimized their tuning approach to make race engines perform more street friendly. It's hard to explain but it's a philosophy you will notice once you start using the software.
[MENTION=22066]Operator[/MENTION] thank you! I will let you know. I have v3.3 yes. It's nice to see some HKS users here
[MENTION=27486]DreamPowered[/MENTION] if I had an na2 I'd probably use the piggyback fcon iS. I really like how HKS optimized their tuning approach to make race engines perform more street friendly. It's hard to explain but it's a philosophy you will notice once you start using the software.
AEM infinity loses cruise control, but at least i'm 100% sure it supports DBW with the kits from SOS and Lovefab. Now, a piggyback could be an option too, if i stay stock-ish with just I/H/E and expanded intake plenum, all i'm afraid of is to run lean. But what if i get those nice ITB's from Toda, i'd have to hook them to the DBW controller, and then get a true standalone EMS. Means, back to AEM or HKS
ITBs is a completely different animal. Most people who go with them don't understand the extreme limitations of tuning iTBs. It's a race car setup. Difficult to adapt to the NSX for a truly oem like street flexibility. Trust me... I've look into this for years. The NSX deserves iTBs but I can't handle the limitations in tuning it. Anyway... That's for another thread.
if I had an NA2, boosted to say 6-10lbs, on a mostly stock engine I'd go with the hks piggyback in a heartbeat and take advantage of all the tuning parameters already built into the oem computer. You essentially just need to tune for boost or your mods. It's a lot more time consuming to tune for throttle tip in, partial throttle performance, cold weather, all of these drive ability scenarios that the oem perfected and that most tuners don't get paid to tune enough or simply don't know how. As I learn more about tuning I'm of the belief it's rather easy to tune for WOT but the sophistication and challenge comes with tuning everywhere else on the powerband. This is where the HKS makes things easier in general. They provide the tools and algorithms to help bridge that gap. I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to give away that knowledge and toolset as open source like aem does. In the early Aem units even the software was buggy and you had to tune for all this stuff on your own... Seems like that's still the case with the infinity but I don't know.
if I had an NA2, boosted to say 6-10lbs, on a mostly stock engine I'd go with the hks piggyback in a heartbeat and take advantage of all the tuning parameters already built into the oem computer. You essentially just need to tune for boost or your mods. It's a lot more time consuming to tune for throttle tip in, partial throttle performance, cold weather, all of these drive ability scenarios that the oem perfected and that most tuners don't get paid to tune enough or simply don't know how. As I learn more about tuning I'm of the belief it's rather easy to tune for WOT but the sophistication and challenge comes with tuning everywhere else on the powerband. This is where the HKS makes things easier in general. They provide the tools and algorithms to help bridge that gap. I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to give away that knowledge and toolset as open source like aem does. In the early Aem units even the software was buggy and you had to tune for all this stuff on your own... Seems like that's still the case with the infinity but I don't know.
Thanks for the helpful reply.
My car is a 91. So i dont have to worry about DBW.
as far as tuners. I believe Sean Ivey was /still is an authorized HkS tuner. Once I get a hold of him, I'll know for sure.
My car is a 91. So i dont have to worry about DBW.
as far as tuners. I believe Sean Ivey was /still is an authorized HkS tuner. Once I get a hold of him, I'll know for sure.
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