Over Torqued Lugs!!

[JGuidry]

Friday Night, I decided to take my car for a spin. I accelerate to about 70-80 to get on the interstate and my car starts to shake. Immediately exit and make a u-turn. When I make the turn it feels like my right side dropped a few inches. Like my tire went flat. When I walk around, I notice the tire has come off the hub. Luckily, (Extremely Luckily) the lower A-arm lands on the inside of the tire rim keeping the car from bottoming out, and the fender from landing on the tire.

So it seems that Discount Tire over torque my lugs. I feel that they are liable. The damage is:
Tow charge: $125.00
New Rim: $168.00
New Lugs: $ 30.00
Labor: $ 50.00

Total $383.00
Not too bad. I think they are very lucky to get off this cheep. Imagine what it could have cost.

Anyway I spoke to one manager, who talked to their corporate office and said they would likely cover it, to bring in my wheel and broken studs, etc. We'll now the other manager is telling me "if a wheel is going to fly, it would fly in the first 100 miles". (It's been 3600 since they put them on, and Approx 1200 since they balanced, which they only have a record of balancing the fronts so they say 3600.)

So now I'm a little upset. Anyway the Manager I originally spoke with will be in tomorrow and I'll talk with him about it then. If they fix this at their cost then I feel I could remain their customer. If not, well I'll be the most negative spokesman for discount tire they have ever had.

Jonathan


[This message has been edited by JGuidry (edited 21 January 2002).]

 

[tabasco]

Originally posted by JGuidry:
...well I'll be the most negative spokesman for discount tire they have ever had...

This is the place to do it. Good luck


------------------
'00 Candy Apple Blue / Black, #264

 

[nsxtasy]

I accelerate to about 70-80 to get on the interstate and my car starts to shake.

If that ever happens again, you're going to pull over and the first thing you'll check are the lug nuts, right?

I'm not excusing what caused the problem, just noting something you could have done that could have prevented things from getting worse.

When I make the turn it feels like my right side dropped a few inches. Like my tire went flat. When I walk around, I notice the tire has come off the hub.

I assume you're saying that the wheel came off the hub (not that the tire came off the wheel).

So it seems that Discount Tire over torque my lugs.

More likely, they under torqued the lugs (never tightened them in the first place). (It will be easy to tell; if they were over-torqued, the threads on the lugs will be stripped.) This is actually not too uncommon; normal procedure is to hand-tighten lugs, lower the car, and torque them. (I'm not excusing their skipping the torquing step, only explaining how it probably happened.)

Anyway I spoke to one manager, who talked to their corporate office and said they would likely cover it, to bring in my wheel and broken studs, etc. We'll now the other manager is telling me "if a wheel is going to fly, it would fly in the first 100 miles".

Actually, he may be right about that.

In any case, give the original manager a chance to come through on what he promised you.

 

[JGuidry]

Yea, the wheel came off the hub. Two Lugs were broken at the hub. Two Lugs were striped. Never found them but their threads were still on the studs! The last stud broke at the rim. I found this Lug (thats why I assume it was the last.)

Does it seem like they were over or under torqued. (I'll post a pic tonight, or tomorrow)

Jonathan

 

[DanO]

My guess is that they were never torqued at all, just hand tightened...but it's just a guess.

DanO

 

[nsxtasy]

My guess is that they were never torqued at all, just hand tightened...but it's just a guess.

That's what I meant when I described the "normal procedure" above.

 

[cobalt]

Tell you what, guys...

I was instructing at Homestead/Miami Speedway with an NSX student. During the last session of the day, I notice a subtle vibration coming up through the floorboard under acceleration around left hand turns. I ask the student if he feels anything, and he says no. Well, I _definitely_ feel something, so I instruct him to get off the gas and just coast the NSX into the hot pits. I get out of the car and have him slowly roll it forward, and sure-sh*t enough, the right rear wheel is about to fall off. All FIVE lugnuts on the right rear wheel were on by only 2 turns at most. If we had taken just one more turn at speed, we'd probably have barrel-rolled the car...not my idea of fun when coming down the front straight at 125mph on a heavily banked oval.

Basically...tech your car yourself, and do it often. I check torque settings on my wheels between each track session, and for street driving, I check tire pressure AND torque on the lug nuts once a week...you never know...and it only takes 5 minutes, which is time well spent.

Andie

[This message has been edited by HomeDepotNSX (edited 16 January 2002).]

 

[JGuidry]

here are pics of the damage.

[This message has been edited by JGuidry (edited January 17, 2002).]

 

[NotFast]

Scary. Is this an advertisement for bringing your own torque wrench and letting them tighten yourself? I bought some tires for my now-gone GSR years ago & Discount Tire was pretty cool about letting me hang out in the shop area and watch 'em work.

 

[randall]

are the wheels hub centic?

 

[randall]

looking at the rust pattern around your hub it appears you did not have a hub centric ring in place,meaning the lugs were taking the load.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by randall:
looking at the rust pattern around your hub it appears you did not have a hub centric ring in place,meaning the lugs were taking the load.

Excellent point, randall. This is one reason why hub-centric wheels (or rings as adapters) are critical - and why proper torquing is critical if you don't have hub-centric wheels or rings. The combination of lack of hub-centricity and improper torquing can be lethal.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

That is a classic hand tight nut problem.

The hub centric ring was not design to take the load. The studs are. Some hub centric ring are made from plastic, and will definitely shatter if it is subjected to load that big. Hub centric are made to center the wheel upon mounting them.

Even, if u aregue that the hubcentric take the load, it can only take loads of up and down movement, which is not much load, unless u hit a pothole or something. On rotation, load is taken by the studs, no matter what. and with track, tires, it can generate so much G, which is a more concern than the up and down load.

 

[JGuidry]

The hub centric ring was made out of plasitc, and it was broken. A portion of it was smashed pretty bad.

Jonathan

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

One of the typical mistake for people that don't have much experience is when they mount the wheel, the installed the hub centric ring the wrong way, or it doesn't fit flush. So when they tighten the lug, the wheel doesn't mount correctly. Over time, the wheel vibrate and cause the nuts to back off. Looks like this is the case on your wheels.

ICBW

 

[randall]

Andrie,

On my volk gtn wheels I have a thin plastic centric ring on the front,but on the rear they have a 3/16 thick metal centric ring so I doubt this is for centering during mounting,it is designed to put the load on the hub.

 

[Timmy]

Okay, I going to carefully word this because it's a minor flame, but justified. Why are you taking your NSX to a place like Discount Tire in the first place? I don't own an nsx but am a proud owner of a Nissan 300ZX TT, which is a unique car in it's own right. My point is that the only mechanics that I let touch my car are the Z place in Ft Lauderdale. You live in Houston, which from what I heard has a ton of exotic cars and I should think that it should be pretty easy to find a decent nsx mechanic or exotic mechanic who at least has some type of education in cars beyond high school auto shop. It might cost a little more but in the end the piece of mind that comes with the fact that your car is in good hand far outweighs the cost. I think your very lucky and I'm very happy that your okay, but perhaps a Houston NSX owner can give you some tips on where to take your car next time.

Tim Hartigan
1993 Superwhite TT

 

[JGuidry]

Originally posted by Timmy:
Okay, I going to carefully word this because it's a minor flame, but justified. Why are you taking your NSX to a place like Discount Tire in the first place?

Well, I just moved to Houston and Discount Tire was the tire shop recommended by a few of the NSX owners. IF they pay for my dammages, then I'd give them another chance.

My conclusion on what happened, After talking with a few tire experts, is that the rim wasn't seated properly on the hub prior to torquing. After a few bad bumps, miles etc. the rim seats properly and now there is a little play in the lugs. after more miles the lugs wobble off and the studs break.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by JGuidry (edited 21 January 2002).]

 

[Timmy]

Okay, that's cool if it was recommended. I just personally hate taking a nice car to a discount place. If they pay up that's cool but I still don't think you should take your ride back there. That's to simple of a job to screw up IMHO

Tim Hartigan
1993 Superwhite TT