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Pilot Sport Vs OEM

sjs

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At the risk of rehashing old issues...

I've pretty much kept up on all the tire talk and had some experience of my own, but I wonder if anyone has tried both the OEM Yokohama tires and the Michelin Pilot Sport in the same ('97+) sizes. I'm interested only in dry weather performance, and not concerned about relative wear rates.

I realize the built-in scrub of the OEM tires gave them a big advantage originally, but is it possible that the newest super tires make up the difference in other ways? Anyone tried both in the same sizes?
 
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I'm interested only in dry weather performance, and not concerned about relative wear rates.

Stick with the OEM Yokohama tires.
 

sjs

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OK, still assuming that dry grip (and control) are the TOP priority. Would you still say OEM as opposed to somewhat wider/lower sizes of another brand?

BTW, when I say that wear rate is not a factor, I mean to the limits of the OEM tires. I'm not inclined to run DOT gumballs on the street.

Also, David, do you see the Pilots wearing at a 2 to 1 rate (rear to front) as do the EOM tires?
 
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The front to rear wear ratio is pretty close, probably just a bit less drastic than with the Yokos.

As far as absolute dry girp, I think that is going to vary a bit from car to car. The car was matched to the Yokos, so the more mods you have the less relevant their co-development becomes. I have aftermarket springs, shocks and sway bars, so any synergy in development is history. I just went for the absolute best dry grip I could get without getting really wonky in wet conditions.
 

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You can certainly buy tires with more dry grip than the OEM Yokos, but they will not provide the same feel.

An example would be Yoko A032R. The grip is better than OEM (unless it's winter) but they do not have that same crisp steering response. They are still very good, just not quite the same as OEM. Their breakaway is more progressive than OEM too, which is nice.

Yes the A032s will probably wear a bit faster than OEM but they are also cheaper so your cost-per-mile comes out about the same.
 

sjs

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Thanks for the comments.

Quite true about the "feel" provided by the OEM tires, along with straight-line stability. I think these were the basis for the built-in scrub of the tires, allowing more toe out on the front and toe in at the rear. The result being very stable straight ahead and very a crisp turn-in. I'm not sure how much it really contributes to potential cornering speed, or G's. I guess I'm prepared to sacrifice some of that feel for better cornering.

But I'm also not sure that springs, shocks and bars detract from the intended gains if toe settings are maintained with OEM tires. I have those mods and think my car retained those positive attributes. What the mods did cause was a very noticeable increase in bump steer, which I'd like to remedy.

[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 15 July 2001).]
 
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the A032s will probably wear a bit faster than OEM but they are also cheaper so your cost-per-mile comes out about the same.

The prices (comparing 205/50-15 per the Tire Rack) are $135 vs $163. The treadwear rating for the A032R is half that of the A022H (60 vs 120). Based on these numbers, the cost per mile is 66 percent higher with the A032R than with the A022H.

However, I don't think this is particularly relevant. The A032R is really designed as a track tire, and like most track tires, is not all that great on the street (it's particularly noisy, for example). The OEM A022H tire is much better suited for street use. Yes, you can use either tire in either situation, but each is better at certain things than the other.
 
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I have no experience here personally, but can share some third hand feedback. A friend of mine in a '99 996 C4 had the pilot sports and swore by them. That is, untill he tried the SO3 PP's. He shared with me that the dry grip is much better in the SO3's, and the tire is very responsive. Before the pilot's he had the SO2's, and he said there is no comparison between the two. his rank order for dry traction was:

1.SO3's
2.Pilot's
3.SO2's

I know I am introducing a variable you did not ask for, but I hope it helps somewhat vs. further confusion!!!
 

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Having owned and driven several sets of both A032R and A022H, the tire wear on the A032 for street use is NOT half that of A022. I got a bit over 5000 miles on A032Rs with the same conditions, same car, etc. that regularly gave me 6500-7000 on A022.

The A032Rs are indeed loud at speed though. I was not really recommending A032Rs to sjs, I was simply pointing out that there is a difference between grip and feel. I threw in the comment about cost-per-mile simply because other people were talking about wear rates.
 

sjs

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Originally posted by justin hall:
I know I am introducing a variable you did not ask for, but I hope it helps somewhat vs. further confusion!!!

It does help, and is much appreciated. I'll look more closely at the S03. However, historicaly, tires designed for Porches have peculiar (I'd say soft) sidewall design. Apparently it works for them, but not necessarrily on other cars. However, I have no idea about the 996 OR the SO3 which is widely used and not Porsche specific, so this may not be relevant here. I'm just saying that I excercise additional caution when someone judges tires based on a Porsche.



[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 15 July 2001).]
 
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Andrie is right. Go on to the tire rack page and do a search for the tire size you want. you will find the result to list all the brands and many tires listed multiple times. the reason they will be listed multiple times is pcar, bmw, mercedes, etc specific.
 
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Comparing tires with a stock 97 suspension: I recently put the Pilot Sports on due to a back order of the AO22's. I should have waited for them to start shipping.

97-T @18K
 
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Originally posted by NSX4U2:
Comparing tires with a stock 97 suspension: I recently put the Pilot Sports on due to a back order of the AO22's. I should have waited for them to start shipping.

97-T @18K


Why?

I have used Pilots on my 300zx and loved them. Sticky and comfortable too. I am a Michelin guy. I have a '87 Legend coupe that gets better than 80,000 mile on a set of Michelins.

I find the Potenza's on my new NSX are loud and hard. I guess when you get to be my age, you look for a little comfort, even in an NSX. I'll go with Pilots when I have to replace.


------------------
'00 Candy Apple Blue / Black
 
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Originally posted by sjs:
If you have the time, I'd like to hear more....


Don't get me wrong, the Pilots are a nice riding and quite tire. The difference I think is in the flex of the sidewalls. It seem the AO22's were stiffer (ie. did not flex) when pushed to the side. The car seems to move out from underneath you much quicker and without notice than with the OEM AO22's. I could be me, but for some reason I liked the OEM feel much better. That could explain the reason each tire sidewall was designed independently for the NSX. That being sidwalls were engineered for each corner of the car. I have not played with tire pressures to determine any improvement. Are you willing to give up a little performance for improved wear factor ??

Just my 2 cents.
 
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It seem the AO22's were stiffer (ie. did not flex) when pushed to the side. The car seems to move out from underneath you much quicker and without notice than with the OEM AO22's.

That's odd; my experience is exactly the opposite. The Pilots seem to give me a lot of warning when I get near the limit. On my car, it is very obvious when they are about to let go. Must be due to differences in our suspension set-ups.

Are you willing to give up a little performance for improved wear factor ??

Nope. Not a bit. I think that the Pilots work with my suspension better than any of the other tires I have tried. The fact that I get about twice the milage out of them is just gravey.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 22 July 2001).]
 
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Are you willing to give up a little performance for improved wear factor ??

Of course, this trade-off is a personal opinion. Mine is that I got the NSX because it's a high-performance supercar, and that's why I paid as much as I did for it. I'm not willing to sacrifice any of that performance in order to save a couple thousand dollars over the life of the car. Others may feel differently about this, and this is a matter of personal preference.
 

sjs

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Originally posted by NSX4U2:
Are you willing to give up a little performance for improved wear factor ??

No.

However, I'll give up a little of most anything else for more dry grip and control at the limits. (which don't always go hand-in-hand).

If in fact the main benefit of the OEM design (compared to newer super tires) is the crisp "feel" but not true grip, then I'm ready for a change.
 
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If in fact the main benefit of the OEM design (compared to newer super tires) is the crisp "feel" but not true grip, then I'm ready for a change.

No, the OEM tires actually grip VERY well... for a street tire. It's not just "feel". I've done many, many track events using the OEM tires.

If you want the ultimate in dry grip, though, another option is to go with a track tire. Granted, they'll wear out much quicker than street tires, but that's just another trade-off to think about. (I understand the Pirelli P-Zero C track tires are available in the '94+ OEM sizes, but other track tires may not be.)
 

sjs

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Originally posted by nsxtasy:
No, the OEM tires actually grip VERY well... for a street tire. It's not just "feel". I've done many, many track events using the OEM tires.

I agree that they are excellent, which is why the decision is not a simple one. However, one thing that makes them special is the built in scrub, which I suspect is more about directional stability at speed and crisp turn-in than it is about cornering G's. But that's just me trying to reason out the probable benefits. Like many people, I may have already surrendered other benefits by altering the suspension.

Since I can't seem to decide about wheels either, perhaps I'll order two sets of wheels instead of one, then do a test at NSXPO.

Hey, there's and idea!! Let's start talking to tire manufacturers and dealers about a tire test at the event. To encourage more participation it could be divided into categories like Street vs track only, plus dry vs wet etc. I'll bring the on-board G recorder/timer. Of course, then we need a car to abuse. Any offers?
 
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