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Poll on Brakes
- Thread starter gobble
- Start date
- Tagged users None
needs a new radio button:
fresh fluids, different pads, stock size..
unless that's your interpretation of good pads... (i was thinking good oem)
:biggrin:
x
fresh fluids, different pads, stock size..
unless that's your interpretation of good pads... (i was thinking good oem)
:biggrin:
x
You need to specify what you are doing...
gobble said:
haha.. funny..
question is though.. are you trying to determine whether or not you want to upgrade your brakes?
From my standpoint I really think it's a matter of $$$..
Although I choose not to use the carbotech XP8/9/10 b/c the PP's give me more than enough stopping power w/ oem tires..
are you running r compounds?
x
And there are better alternatives in stock size to OEM rotors as well for both pre 97 and post 97.
Since the question is between "stock brakes" and "big brakes", I assume it's really about how you feel about different brake caliper setups, allowing for the use of whatever pads and rotors and fluid you want. If that is correct, then the four choices are really:
- With good pads and fluid, the stock brake calipers are up to the job
- The stock brake calipers are OK, but big brake calipers are in my future
- Big brake calipers are great, but an unnecessary cost
- Big brake calipers are the only way to go
- With good pads and fluid, the stock brake calipers are up to the job
- The stock brake calipers are OK, but big brake calipers are in my future
- Big brake calipers are great, but an unnecessary cost
- Big brake calipers are the only way to go
for occasional DE events, stock brakes with good pads are fine.
For racing and time trials, big brake options are the way to go...
You need to just try it out. I still have stock brakes on mine, though I'd like BBK... just not within my budget for an occasional track car right now.
For racing and time trials, big brake options are the way to go...
You need to just try it out. I still have stock brakes on mine, though I'd like BBK... just not within my budget for an occasional track car right now.
I agree. Unfortunately, the fact that this poll appears in the Track and Race Reports forum makes it likely to be biased towards those using their cars primarily for the latter.kenjiMR said:
nsxtasy said:
thats why I asked him to specify the use...
gobble said:
You are missing a relatively significant variable by assuming all rotors are pretty much the same when they are not. Look at the option offered by DaliRacing or the rotor pictured in this month's NSX Driver - it's DaliRacing's two piece floating racing rotors for 97+ model years.
Racing two piece floating rotors, even in OEM size, offer more cooling and more braking torque thus they can handle more aggressive racing pads than non-racing OEM size rotors with the same OEM caliper. You have to consider and balance all the variables to make such a determination. The OEM calipers are the last piece of the equation in the need to upgrade and not the first. And to get to that need, you must either be very fast/advanced on tracks that are very demanding on brakes, your car is a dedicated track car, or you are overdiriving your brakes.
Having said this, the OEM brake set up is not sufficient for anyone beyond the novice level. The rest depends on your level of driving, budget and track needs - setting aside for now the bling bling looks. But at a minimum, higher boiling point brake fluid and better pads are an essential must beyond novice if nothing else to reduce recurring costs. Then you can transition to better cooling (with or without the dust shield), two piece floating rotors, Comptech's competition non-compliance clamp and even more aggressive track dedicated pads - before changing the OEM calipers. Most aftermarket calipers will weigh less so there is a weight advantage, but that comes at other additional costs (customized rotors, new wheels, spacers, might have limited selection of pad options ....).
As an FYI, and if I am not mistaken, last year DAL Racing ran on OEM pre 97 brake calipers.
HTH-YMMV.
Hrant said:
Because they had to, not because they wanted to. (per Grand-Am rules)
RP-Motorsports said:
I am aware of that. But they also had the option of using the OEM 97+ set up if I am not mistaken, and if I recall correctly my private exchanges with DAL Racing, they opted to stay with the pre 97 primarily because they could use the StopTech two piece floating rotors, less weight ...... but I may be wrong also :wink:
I could not get a day out of any pre 97 set-up.
Cryo- rotors- race pads etc, extra cooling, rotors were trash at the end of one hard track day. tried several combos, all the rotor warped.
Did not try any 97+ parts but they must be better.
I now have a custom set-up- 4 328-28 race rotors and 4 brembo Billet race calipers.
They are great, will never need more.
Even Brembos GT kits(slotted only) front and rear would be very good with the right pad combo.
Cryo- rotors- race pads etc, extra cooling, rotors were trash at the end of one hard track day. tried several combos, all the rotor warped.
Did not try any 97+ parts but they must be better.
I now have a custom set-up- 4 328-28 race rotors and 4 brembo Billet race calipers.
They are great, will never need more.
Even Brembos GT kits(slotted only) front and rear would be very good with the right pad combo.
Thanks Mike for the logical racer input. :wink: I agree with you.
Basically, if you get some racing pads and change the fluid the stock brakes will go on for ever...there is no need to get bigger brakes. But, it's clear the NSX brakes stopping power is nothing beyond average (although i think they have great feel) which is why a 6 pot kit is imminent.
-Rob
-Rob
robfenn said:
I disagree.
I think the NSX's stock stopping ability/power is very good well above average, problem comes in just after you have done your third lap starting your 4th entering turn one you brake from 145 to ~50 and you realize, there goes another set of rotors. Do one maybe two hard laps then the stocks will last possibly, But? :smile:
The rotors don't warp, but they can develop uneven deposits of brake pad material that cause the brakes to shudder. (You can tell the difference because warped rotors shudder at all temperatures, whereas uneven deposits only cause shudder when the rotors get hot.) You can avoid this by bedding your pads properly. You can read more about this here and here.Edgemts said:
nsxtasy said:
I agree that "warped rotors" are typically uneven pad material deposits, or indeed even cracked rotors.
Do you have a source to back up this particular claim, that rotors with uneven deposits only shudder when the rotors get hot? The pad material should be affecting the run-out of the rotor, which should be noticable at any temp, if my understanding is correct.
-Chris
Rotors dont warp??? Really?nsxtasy said:
Send me a shipping account # and I will send you some.
I have been racing and bedding pads for 16 years.
my last set of Oe size rotors I went to extreme measures to set everything up perfect, including heat cycling and bedding the pads and rotors multiple times and cleaning etc. just to see if I could get them to last.
Didnt work
Yes you can get hot spots/shutter from pad deposits etc. You can also warp them.
Typically a build-up of pad material is a result of locking the brakes often under high temps.
the other thing is that warped rotors are usually worse when they are cold as they lose there shape from the heating/cooling process, when they are hot they are more willing move a little and go closer to there original shape, once heated again they get worse and worse.
Yes: Experience. Mine and that of other owners I've spoken with. No shudder when the brakes are cold, in normal street driving; only when they heat up on the track, or when doing very hard braking on the highway (e.g. fairly hard braking from 70 mph to 30 mph). However, I don't have it any more (see below).Chris F said:
If you were experiencing shudder as bad, or worse, when cold, then your shudder is different from mine. I used to have shudder develop after 3-4 track events, and it would go away when I replaced the front rotors. But they never shuddered when the brakes were cold, only when they were hot - which is the same as other NSX owners I've spoken with (other than you). Once I added some ducting and properly bedded my pads, I haven't been having any shudder problems. I can only say that your experience is different from mine, and that I've never had warping as you've described it. Then again, I'm still checking things out, after 9,896 actual track miles on my NSX. I've got another couple track events coming up; I'll let you know if anything changes.Edgemts said:
nsxtasy said:
Good enough.I have a brain teaser for you Obi-wan..
I've had this happen few times.. two of which were at the same place on the track IIRC (7 at RA).
I've clipped a curb and been left with a strong brake shudder when braking for the next turn.
One time, I got the curb pretty solid and the brake shudder didn't go away.
The other time the shudder went away by itself before the session ended. It was a 2-wheels-off on the inside of 7 at RA, could have been dirt I suppose. (got loose at turn in, cold rear tires and mental error).
If a wheel takes a really strong hit like that (curb etc.), and the rotor is at it's peak temperature, I'm wondering if the force on the rotor hat can cause a rotor to bend? None of the times was I using the brakes when the hit happened, but it only shuddered when using the brakes.
-Chris
