Question for those w/ 4.55 R&P

[ilya]

Initially, did you have more gear noise when the car is cold?

Yes, there is a small whine at certain cruising speeds, but I am referring to something else.
When cold, I hear what sounds like gears spinning. Once the car is warmed up, it goes away and I have to listen very closely to hear anything. However, at slow speeds in 1st after pulling out of the garage, I can hear gears spinning. Maybe it's the clutch, but I hear them when I am in gear, not when the clutch is depressed.
I tried pumping up and down on the clutch pedal as a test. When the clutch goes down, the noise goes away. When I release, it comes back. This also holds true for neutral. I let the car sit in one place, in neutral, and I can hear the noise whenever the clucth is not depressed.

What new sounds or behavior have you noticed afer installing the 4.55? Could it be the clutch making this noise? It was also installed recently. It really does sound like gears spinning/grinding. It's not very loud, but noticeable over the hum of the engine until the car warms up.
Afterward, all is fine. Is this normal? Is it something that will go away after some time? Also, this R&P has about 6000 miles on it.

Any ideas or suggestions? Interested to see if this is normal.


Finally, one last thing that seems to be common all the time, not only when cold. With the radio off, as I am slowly decelerating in 1st, as I come to a stop, I can also hear gears slowing down. Not very loud and not audible with the radio on. I have been listening for various things since it's been installed and this is another new sound that was not there previously.

These are all minor and something that has to be listened for, but I wanted to see other experiences and see if this is normal.

 

[nsxlr8]

I'm guessing you might have installed a "high performance" clutch? Mine has a centerforce with no other mods. It makes this noise when in neutral and the clutch is engaged. It's not your ring and pinion. It has nothing to do with it. some other cars I've heard with performance clutches make this noise also. More often the higher "Performance" of the clutch, the noisier it is. It's pretty common. Don't worry about it. If you haven't changed out your clutch......... Hmm. Don't know.

 

[ilya]

Thank you, that is actually helpful. I did have a clutch done. However, it's the same RM clutch that I had previously as well.
I am going to have to ask what parts were swapped out. It may be something new that was changed that is causing the noise.

I had a mid-plate crack on me and some of the discs were damaged as well. He kept the parts that were fine, but replaced what was broken. I'll check and see. Thanks

 

[DaveJP]

Not likely related to your gears. Sound like the throwout/pilot bearing in your clutch assembly needs to be lubed. The give-away is the fact that the noise abates when the clutch is pushed in. Was this done when your clutch was replaced?

 

[Yellow Rose]

Shame shame on the technician for (a) not recommending to replace the throwout bearing or (b) perhaps using the wrong grease.

Niello Acura will sell you a throwout bearing for about $110. Cheap in the grand scheme of things.

Assuming a new throwout bearing was installed, if it is not the gears or clutch, was the correct Honda urea-based greased used? Accept no other grease, period. This is the grease spec'ed in a tech bulletin issued by Mother Honda.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by nsxlr8:
I'm guessing you might have installed a "high performance" clutch? Mine has a centerforce with no other mods. It makes this noise when in neutral and the clutch is engaged. It's not your ring and pinion. It has nothing to do with it. some other cars I've heard with performance clutches make this noise also. More often the higher "Performance" of the clutch, the noisier it is. It's pretty common. Don't worry about it. If you haven't changed out your clutch......... Hmm. Don't know.

When you say "engaged", what do you mean? (Some people seem to use the word "engaged" to mean that the clutch pedal is pressed down, but this actually backwards. The clutch engages when you let the pedal out. Sound petty, but different usage leads to confusion.)

If you are saying that with the tans in neutral and your foot off the pedal, a high performance (or any) clutch makes noise, then I'd disagree. If you mean they make noise when the pedal is depressed, then I'd still ask why. I've never heard any noise. I suppose multi-disk clutches in general might be more likely to make noise, but I'm nit clear on why stock vs high performance should matter. As already noted, the other possibility if the throw-out bearing which should have been replaced anyway.

 

[ilya]

I can hear it when the pedal is up.
I'm going to take it back in a week or so and have it looked at. Maybe it needs to be reinitialized again. I don't know what that would do, but I can ask. I remember someone saying the RM needs to be initiaized 3 times with driving in between. It was 2am and I don't recall that being done. Could that be it?

The only parts replaced where the ones damaged when the mid-plate cracked. A new mid-plate and the Kevlar dics were replaced as I recall. The rest of the clutch was only a couple years old and still in good shape.
I'm pretty sure my throwout bearing was fine and was not replaced. I guess there is a possibility of it not being lubed well enough.

But I'll admit I have no idea what I'm talking about in regards to the clutch.

[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 30 January 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Sorry Ilya, your post was quite clear as to the pedal position. I was questioning one of the other responses.

But back to your first question. There are only two things that might make sound with the clutch pedal out and the transmission in neutral.

If the pedal is not adjusted correctly it is possible that the throw-out bearing is resting lightly on the pressure plate even with the pedal all the way out. This could easily happen if the replacement clutch were slightly taller than the original one at the point where the bearing hit it. This is VERY bad for the bearing which will wear out quickly, and then VERY bad for the pressure plate as the bearing wears out and ceases to spin freely, at which time it starts cutting into the pressure plate release fingers. You say the sound stops when you press the clutch in, so I'm inclined to think it is not this, but you should still check it because it could be just barely rubbing at rest and go quiet when more pressure is applied Use your hand to slowly press the pedal down and try to detect when the bearing first hits the plate. There should be a noticeable amount of free-play before that. Does the sound change even before you press hard enough to begin disengagement?


The other possibility is the main input shaft in the transmission. With the pedal out, the engine still drives the input shaft at engine RPM. That shaft is full of gears that are not engaged, and rides on two bearings that can make noise. There is also a needle bearing where the shaft goes into the crank. That too should have been replaced with the clutch and it's possible to damage it when installing the transmission. Try revving the engine just slightly. Does the sound change at the same rate as the RPM? If yes and you've already ruled out the throw-out bearing, then I'd suspect one of the above. I suppose it also possible that something else is amiss inside, like a shift fork dragging lightly on a gear or something, but that would be unusual.

 

[ilya]

I'm going to have it checked out as soon as possible. Also, this is only noticeable when the car is cold. It goes away after 10-15 minutes or so of driving if that makes a difference.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ilya:
I'm going to have it checked out as soon as possible. Also, this is only noticeable when the car is cold. It goes away after 10-15 minutes or so of driving if that makes a difference.

That increases the probability of the main shaft bearings but does not rule out any of them.

 

[sjs]

Ilya, how noticeable is it? If very faint, is it possible that it’s nothing new and you only noticed because you’re listening more carefully since the work was done?

 

[ilya]

It's not that faint. I'm positive it wasn't there in the past. If I coast in neutral, I notice it speeds up depending on how fast the car is moving. I'm definitely going to have it looked at soon.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by ilya:
...If I coast in neutral, I notice it speeds up depending on how fast the car is moving. ...

Hmmm... That tends to contradict most of my prior analysis since it would seemingly rule out the main input shaft. Remote diagnosis is fun, but not very reliable!