Are they worth it on an OBD1 (94) car were you can't mess with the tune. I've done headers, exhaust, intake, and crank pulley. Short of supercharging I want to get every bit of HP out of her. Please share your opinion one way or the other. Or any other Mod you would do.
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RDX Style Injectors
- Thread starter El-Cojonico
- Start date
Lots of information here.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/211416-Tuning-the-NSX-3-0L-Using-the-OEM-ECU
It turns out you CAN tune the OEM ECU with the addition of a Moates Demon II ($~250), a wide band O2 sensor, and an installation of TunerPro RT ($39). You will have to do a small amount of soldering to install the Demon II, but any old time radio shop will do it for you for ~$50.00.
All that said, I have been running the RX injectors for about 8 years, and am very happy with them -- and am looking forward to tuning them myself for my 5000'+ altitude. You can fill yourself in on my experience as well as others in the above mentioned thread.
Good luck, and join in the group on Facebook if you want to go down this route.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/211416-Tuning-the-NSX-3-0L-Using-the-OEM-ECU
It turns out you CAN tune the OEM ECU with the addition of a Moates Demon II ($~250), a wide band O2 sensor, and an installation of TunerPro RT ($39). You will have to do a small amount of soldering to install the Demon II, but any old time radio shop will do it for you for ~$50.00.
All that said, I have been running the RX injectors for about 8 years, and am very happy with them -- and am looking forward to tuning them myself for my 5000'+ altitude. You can fill yourself in on my experience as well as others in the above mentioned thread.
Good luck, and join in the group on Facebook if you want to go down this route.
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Would there be any performance gain by doing just the injectors and no tune?
The injectors without the tune, if it runs at all (doubtful), would run very poorly. You have to change the injector pulse widths to account for the vastly increased fuel availability in the RDX injectors. You can get some insights into what is involved from my thread above your thread.
I agree with Mark. I would NOT run the injectors in the car on the stock tune. It likely won't even start, since the injector dead times and cranking pulsewidths will be off. If it did start, it would run really rough and the ECU would go nuts trying to trim the fuel.
Ok. Id buy it as a package deal, but don't trust myself to mess with the ECU. Thanks guys.
I found an old fashioned radio store -- something about vacuum tubes -- and had him do the soldering.
Soldering is easy. Unsoldering is much more of a challenge as you can screw up the traces on the board. If there is a vocational school in you neighborhood that could also be a spot to find the right skilled person.
The prospeed kit requires the new chip to be soldered into the board -- or better yet installation of a 28 pin socket so either the Demon II or different chips to be installed simultaneously.
It does make a noticeable difference in the car's performance.
Soldering is easy. Unsoldering is much more of a challenge as you can screw up the traces on the board. If there is a vocational school in you neighborhood that could also be a spot to find the right skilled person.
The prospeed kit requires the new chip to be soldered into the board -- or better yet installation of a 28 pin socket so either the Demon II or different chips to be installed simultaneously.
It does make a noticeable difference in the car's performance.
Where are you guys buying the pigtail adapter connector for the RDX injector to the OEM NSX 91-96 harness?
No worries on that, but I appreciate the offer. I guess I can hit up Brian. Rywire sells a set of 4 but not 6 and not sure if the same harness fits the NSX
I got all of my RDX kit from Xenocron Tuning. I asked a question about the rail adapters and the owner replied himself. I was very pleased with their service.
You are such an enabler!!! :biggrin:
www.cycleterminal.com also has the injector resistor bypass plug for ~$7
http://www.cycleterminal.com/hw-series-090.html
"8 pin HW -<wbr> .090 Male junction Connector" at the bottom of the linked page.
http://www.cycleterminal.com/hw-series-090.html
"8 pin HW -<wbr> .090 Male junction Connector" at the bottom of the linked page.
They're a good resource for a number of other Honda standard plugs.
I've also had nothing but good experiences with www.hamotorsports.com for ECU tuning components. My first Demon II unit was defective, and they sent me a replacement and returned the faulty unit to moates.net on my behalf.
Chipping the ECU is not as simple as on other honds ECUs (b-series P72, p28), because you have to remove and replace the factory chip as opposed to just adding a socket. I fried an ECU trying to desolder an OEM chip, a good desoldering unit is highly recommended. Once I had the right equipment, it was way easier but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone without soldering experience.
I've also had nothing but good experiences with www.hamotorsports.com for ECU tuning components. My first Demon II unit was defective, and they sent me a replacement and returned the faulty unit to moates.net on my behalf.
Chipping the ECU is not as simple as on other honds ECUs (b-series P72, p28), because you have to remove and replace the factory chip as opposed to just adding a socket. I fried an ECU trying to desolder an OEM chip, a good desoldering unit is highly recommended. Once I had the right equipment, it was way easier but I wouldn't recommend it for anyone without soldering experience.
Guys, back to my original question, on Ebay, The Osidetiger Denso Fuel Injector Kit for the 91-96 NSX says it is a direct replacement with No Tune Needed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-96-Ac...:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649Anyone have any experience with these?
Changing injectors without tuning is pointless, it's a solution looking for a problem. If you're looking for options that don't require tuning just send your stock injectors off for cleaning and flow testing, the result will be better.
There are a few people I know of who have run these over the past couple years and so far they haven't been able to show that they actually do anything helpful.
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Just reading the product description is suspect. I echo everyone else's comments here. There's so much more to an injector swap than the actual physical swap.
There was one owner here who tried a few versions. One of them popped the O2 CEL. I would avoid it. We don't even know what the dead times are. Just that can throw it all off.
MotorMouth93 said:
+1 Good advice here.
Agree. So many variables.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/208707-New-Injector-Innovation-for-NSX
This is the thread that deals with OsideTiger...there hasn't been an update from the guy who was pioneering it in a while but as you can see his first attempt eventually had an issue.
Guys, back to my original question, on Ebay, The Osidetiger Denso Fuel Injector Kit for the 91-96 NSX says it is a direct replacement with No Tune Needed. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-96-Acu...38.l2649Anyone have any experience with these?
There was one owner here who tried a few versions. One of them popped the O2 CEL. I would avoid it. We don't even know what the dead times are. Just that can throw it all off.
Changing injectors without tuning is pointless, it's a solution looking for a problem. If you're looking for options that don't require tuning just send your stock injectors off for cleaning and flow testing, the result will be better.
There are a few people I know of who have run these over the past couple years and so far they haven't been able to show that they actually do anything helpful.
+1 Good advice here.
Just reading the product description is suspect. I echo everyone else's comments here. There's so much more to an injector swap than the actual physical swap.
Agree. So many variables.
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Occham's razor or law of parsimony is the problem-solving principle that states "entities should not be multiplied without necessity." In other words: Choose the simplest solution.
Good old Occham is a good policy to follow when you fully understand the "entity." Note here:
The entity of changing injector sizes to get more power is not a minor entity. It is a complicated as hell. And dangerous. Look at the extensive information in the threads that have already been -- and are currently being -- published, and that information is increasing daily.
Following a problem-solving "solution" that does not encompass all the entities, or as those late, great work-shop gurus Click and Clack used to say -- "unencumbered by the thinking process" is a path I would strongly suggest avoiding.
Only recently have the bones of the NSX ECU been released, and it is a very complicated entity indeed.
By all means, proceed forward but cautiously. The path is strewn with danger. And excitement!
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