Rear OEM (Yokohama) tires almost gone at 3500 miles?

[NSXForEver]

I have seen several threads about this, but I am going to ask again. I picked up my 2000 NSX last June with a set of new OEM Yokohama tires on it (the car was a certified used Acura with 7200 miles). Since then I have put about 3500 miles on the car.

Anyway, the weather was nice yesterday so I washed my car and did a quick inspection of the tires. The rear tires are almost completely worn out. The front tires are still at about 75%+. Aren't the rear tires supposed to last at least 5K to 8K miles? Gary Force in Nashville did the cerification on the car so I assume they checked the alignment. Barney D. is the NSX tech down there so I know it was done right. It seems to track straight and the handling is normal.

Anybody else burn out their rear OEM tires in only 3500 miles? By the way, I don't drive with the TCS off and I rarely take off really fast. So, I don't think I have spun the tread off of the tires. Tire pressure was kept at the recommended levels.

Ugh,

Matt


------------------
2000 NSX-T #49
Silverstone/Black
9000 miles
No Mods

 

[Jimbo]

I wouldn't assume that the alignment was checked or was correct.

If you pretty sure than the air pressure was correct and you've been driving it like you said, it sounds like the alignment is suspect.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[Hrant]

Let's back up a few steps:

1. Where is the actaul wear? Both sides show the same wear? At the center, inside sides, evenly ...?

2. You mentioned oem tires, but do you have any mods to the suspension?

3. 3500 is indeed low even if you are running 40 psi COLD unless it was all on highway driving but even then you should get at least 5000. With 40 psi you should get about 6000 miles with moderate spirited driving on both highway streets. Every additional 2 psi you take off will give you about another 3000 psi on the rears but I don't recommnend you go below 36 psi in the rear.

4. Your alignment may have changed even though you assume you did not hist anything. That is why on a high performance car, checking the tire pressure and treadwear on a regular basis helps to identify these before they become surprises .....

HTH

 

[nsxtasy]

I agree with the others about the various possible factors that have been mentioned.

Here are a couple of additional things to consider:

1. You said that the tires were new when you picked it up. New... as in 0 miles? Or is it possible that they might have had, say, 1000 miles on them, so the tread looked full?

2. You say they are almost completely worn out. Are the treadwear indicator bars flat across? Or are they just close, so you might have another 1000 miles to go?

Either one of these might account for another 1000 miles of treadlife - and both could bring you in line with your expectations.

 

[johndoh]

Awhile ago, I hit a really bad pot hole and threw my alignment totally out of whack(did not know at that time). Few days prior, I had replaced my rears(yoko OEMs). I got exactly 2000 miles on my rears. The car seemed to drive fine & handling was not very noticeably different because it was winter. It seemed as if everyday I drove, I could see the tires wearing down. A long story, but I took my car to a different dealership that many local NSX owners recommended & to get the alignment checked out. Indeed, my alignment was really messed up and got it fixed. Now I have 8000mi on my current tires with about 30% tread left. I have a 2000 NSX and let me know if you want a copy of my alignment settings.

3500mi is very unusual for "normal" driving. As many stated, your alignment is probably the culprit there. I have also heard that many new NSXs come out of the factory with alignments not being correctly set.


[This message has been edited by johndoh (edited 05 February 2002).]

 

[NSXForEver]

Thanks for all the responses. Here is a little more information.

The wear is even on both sides of the car. Most of the wear on each tire is in the center. It looks as though they were run with too much air in them. However, I know the rear tires were never inflated above 40 psi. If anything, I tend to run them a little too low. The car is stock so there are no aftermarket suspension mods that could be a problem. I don't remember hitting anything that might have knocked out the alignment, but it is possible that I did.

Ken, the tread in the center is almost smooth. I don't think there is another 1000 miles in them. You could be right about the age of the tires when I got the car, though. They looked new, but there could have been several hundred miles on them. That's a good point.

Does anyone know if an alignment is part of the standard Acura used car certification? I thought there was some extra maintenance done to used Acuras certified by an Acura dealer. I don't know for sure, though.

Again, thanks for all your input.

Matt


------------------
2000 NSX-T #49
Silverstone/Black
9000 miles
No Mods

 

[Barn Man]

Hey all,
I know for a fact that Matt's alignment was perfect and on the money. It was in fact the easiest NSX alignment I've ever done! So there is absolutely nothing SUSPECT about it. The car was on the lot for a few weeks, so you can imagine how many times the sales staff gave people test drives. This probably had something to do with the tire wear. I have Matt scheduled to come in Sat to check it out. If they are wearing evenly like he says, there's nothing more I can do to make them wear more evenly!!! But, we'll check it out and see what the alignment looks like anyway. Matt, looking forward to seeing ya Sat. Have a good one all!
Barn Man....

 

[nsxtasy]

Hey Barney, any chance you can find out exactly how many miles were on Matt's car when his tires were put on there by the previous owner? (IOW, how many miles the PO put on the tires before Matt bought the car?)

 

[Barn Man]

I put the tires on Matt's car. We bought the car at an auction in Ky. (?) It was in great shape other than the tires. I did the 7,500 sevice on it, put four tires on and did the alignment. (The original tires were wearing unevenly). (ABNORMALY unevenly). As it turned out, (If I remember corectly), they were wearing too much on the inside. So I put it in factory spec. I plan on taking out the negative camber and reducing the toe to knock down on the amount of tire wear he's experiencing. I'm sure the abnormaly fast wear had to be due to the fact that the sales people were showing the car so much. I'm trying to push the sales manager to cut down on the amount / style they are driven when they are on the lot. But how can you tell a potential buyer NO when they want to see what the car is capable of? It's a grey area.
Barn Man....

 

[NSXForEver]

You mean people drove "my" car around before I came and got it?

Actually, I prefer not to think about what some of the sales staff/test drivers did while driving my NSX before it became "mine". You guys are right. That could easily account for several hundred miles of tire wear.

Did I ever mention that when I drove onto the lot to pick up my NSX there was a big fat guy sitting on the hood? He was using it as a chair while his wife looked at an MDX. As I was walking up to where the car was parked, the sales staff came running out to shoo him away. What an idiot.

Anyway, the tire wear is even across both rear tires so I don't think anything is wrong. If a more conservative alignment won't make a significant impact on tire wear, I would prefer to leave it like it is. However, if the change in alignment would add a few thousand miles to a set of tires, it might be worth it.

See ya Saturday Barn Man.

Matt




------------------
2000 NSX-T #49
Silverstone/Black
9000 miles
No Mods

 

[johndoh]

If you do get the alignment checked out again, it'd be good to see the alignment specs of your current settings. If brand new tires were put on at 7000 miles and you're now at 9k miles, something is very fishy here. Even if people are out test driving it, they would have to drive the snot out of it(tire burning peel outs every start) in order to wear through those tires that quick.

[This message has been edited by johndoh (edited 08 February 2002).]

 

[NSXForEver]

I bought(leased) the car with 7200 miles on it. The car now has 10,700 miles on it. So I have put 3500 miles on the tires. There might be another 500 miles in the rear tires. So, I am estimating getting about 4000 miles out of the rear tires.

The front tires, by the way, look like they could go another 3500 miles, easily.

Matt

 

[Barn Man]

Hey Johndoh,
I agree that the tires being worn out at 4500 to 5000 is a bit fast, But if you can think of any reason they would wear that quickly and be worn so evenly, I'm all ears. I've been doing these for a long time man. If they are wearing evenly, there's not a lot a man can do to give them longer life, other than change to a more conservative setting. Which in turn will compromise the handling, (unless you talk to Mr. Zimmerman)!
I'll rattle my chicken bones I keep in my tool box over the car, and pray to the Yokohama tire Gods for longer tire life! Wish me luck.
Barn Man....

 

[nsxtasy]

I think all you can do is make sure the alignment is right (it will be interesting to hear the before-and-after results tomorrow) and monitor your pressures. If you want to try lowering your pressures in the rear a couple of pounds for your next set of tires, go ahead (but I doubt that they will matter all that much if the tires are wearing evenly). Don't forget to check your tire pressures every so often, particularly as the seasons change; cold pressure increases by roughly 1 psi with each 10 degree increase in ambient temperature.

It may be that 5000 miles is all you can get on a set of rear tires. Welcome to the world of NSX ownership.

Keep in mind that you will probably get at least twice the treadlife on the front tires as on the rears.

 

[Jimbo]

Maybe the roads in your area are overly abrasive?

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

"Roads? What roads?"

 

[NSXForEver]

Originally posted by Barn Man:
I'll rattle my chicken bones I keep in my tool box over the car, and pray to the Yokohama tire Gods for longer tire life! Wish me luck.
Barn Man....

Chicken Bones...so that's your secret.

I will confess to not monitoring the tire pressures as closely as I should. My tire pump has a leak so I can't add air at home right now. When I checked the pressure yesterday the rears were at 30 psi each. (oops)

Most of the wear in the rears is in the middle, though. If I ran them with the pressure too low, wouldn't I be seeing more wear on the outside?

I guess none of that will matter once the Yokohama gods get involved. I should be all set.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
"Roads? What roads?"

All the roads here in So. Indiana are dirt. So, I don't think they are causing a problem.

Matt

 

[nsxtasy]

Most of the wear in the rears is in the middle, though. If I ran them with the pressure too low, wouldn't I be seeing more wear on the outside?

Traditionally, yes. But I wonder whether that old saw is still as applicable in today's world of low-profile (short-sidewall) tires.

I would suggest you pick a pressure - either the recommended 40R cold or something close (like Hrant's 38R) and stick to it. Check it at least once every 2-4 weeks, particularly as the seasons change.

 

[Bilulan]

Originally posted by NSXForEver:
All the roads here in So. Indiana are dirt. So, I don't think they are causing a problem.

Maybe its those neighbors who seem to have stopped speaking with you, sneaking over at night and sanding treadwear away.

I grew up in Evansville. I could vouch for the fact that you may be the only X owner in town!

 

[Barn Man]

Hey all,
Upon inspection of Matt's car today, we found that the tires still have about 700 to 1000 miles left on them. Granted, the right rear is a little more worn out than the left rear, but I've found that that is very normal for an NSX driven in the city often. If you think about it, when turning out of any driveway or street your turning sharper to the right than when you make a left hand turn. This in time will wear the tread on the right rear faster than the left due to the fact the right rear tire is scraping the asphalt more often on tight turns. Left turns are hardly ever taken as sharp as rights. (unless your in a parking lot turning into a space or along those lines).
So, Matt is happy, he's got a little while longer on his tire life. Most NSX'ers around here will take the tires to the limit before replacing them so that's what I'm basing this mileage on. (Mileage to slick).
The alignment still looks great, although since he's not intending on tracking the car YET....(I still have hopes for him!), I'll drop a little of the negative camber out of the fronts next alignment we do.
Now, lets eat, I'm starving!
Barn Man...

 

[nsxtasy]

Most NSX'ers around here will take the tires to the limit before replacing them so that's what I'm basing this mileage on. (Mileage to slick).

I don't know if that's what most other owners do, but that's (a) illegal, and (b) dangerous. Yes, it's actually illegal to drive on public roads with tread less than the 2/32" tread at which the treadwear indicator bars are flat across. Not that anyone here cares whether they are breaking the law, of course. But I can assure you that driving an NSX on wet pavement at posted speed limits on tires with 2/32" tread is downright scary; I wouldn't want to risk doing so with less tread than that.

 

[NSXForEver]

Looks like Barney beat me to the forum to give the results of his inspection so I won't repeat what he said. He can explain it better anyway. I will add that I think part of the problem was my inexperience with knowing when to call a tire "worn out". If I am able to get another 700 to 1000 miles out of the rears then I will be within an acceptable range for wear (5000ish). Since I am concerned about getting caught in the rain, I will probably replace the rears in the next few weeks. Barney warned me not to drive in the rain if I can help it.

I'm glad I finally got to meet Barn Man in person. He is a great guy. I would highly recommend Gary Force Acura for anyone who is searching for a new Acura dealership to work with. Besides the fact that Barney works there, their inventory is very good, and Marty (the gentleman who(m?) I worked with to lease my NSX) is a great sales consultant. We drove a TL and an RSX today and Marty put together some great deals for me to consider when I am ready to get a new "bad weather" car. I would also like to compliment Marcus, the service consultant there. He worked me into a busy Saturday service shedule with only a couple days notice.

Matt



[This message has been edited by NSXForEver (edited 09 February 2002).]

 

[NSXForEver]

Originally posted by Bilulan:

Originally posted by NSXForEver:
All the roads here in So. Indiana are dirt. So, I don't think they are causing a problem.

Maybe its those neighbors who seem to have stopped speaking with you, sneaking over at night and sanding treadwear away.

I grew up in Evansville. I could vouch for the fact that you may be the only X owner in town!

Wow, someone else who knows about Evansville. Why did you leave? It's such an exciting town.

I live up near the airport in case you are curious. There are only a couple of people I know of who had NSX's in this area. One was owned by one the Shoe Carnival execs - actually he might have had two. I know he wrecked at least one of them. The other guy lives in Henderson, KY, I think and he is an Exec. at the power company over there.

It's fun having such a rare car around here except most people just think my NSX is a Corvette.

Actually all Acuras are pretty rare around here. DPatrick, the local Honda dealer, couldn't qualify for an Acura dealership so I don't think Evansville will see an Acura dealership anytime soon. I would start one myself if I could get away with it (and if I could get some money to start it up)

Matt

------------------
2000 NSX-T #49
Silverstone/Black
10,500 miles
No Mods

 

[nsxtasy]

I will add that I think part of the problem was my inexperience with knowing when to call a tire "worn out".

There's an interesting discussion about this on Tire Rack's website here.

Granted, you're now hearing three different opinions about when to replace tires: at 4/32" tread (Tire Rack), at 2/32" (me), and at 0/32" (Barney). But when you think about it, all three of us are really saying the same thing: As the tread wears down, traction in the rain is going to get dramatically worse, due to the risk of hydroplaning. Tire Rack talks about replacing at 4/32" "if rain and wet roads are a concern". I replace my tires at 2/32", as soon as the treadwear indicator bars are flat across, but I know that I have to slow down - WAY down - if it's starting to get close to that point and it's raining out. And Barney too is saying that your big concern is wet traction. (However, even on dry roads, you are not going to get as much grip when your tread is worn down as you would with more tread. It's a fallacy that many people think that the lack of tread on racing "slicks" gives them more grip on dry pavement, when in fact it's the soft compound that gives them grip.)

BTW, since I replace my tires at 2/32", I don't need to use the "penny test" or the "quarter test"; I just remember to look at the treadwear indicator bars every so often, and more frequently as the tires are worn. They're easy to check in the front, by turning the steering wheel all the way to one side before getting out of the car. In the rear, you have to make sure you bend down enough to see the entire width of the tread on the rear tires.

 

[Barn Man]

Very true Ken,
When you dirve an NSX, you really need to stay VERY aware of your tire life. An NSX can hydoplane VERY quickly in the rain due to the positive toe, wide tires, light weight and power. I was strickly going by the maljority of folks that drive NSX's around my area. They will (literaly) drive them until they are slick. I've seen many come in with cords showing. This scares me to think that some folks aren't watching their tire wear indicators. But, some folks don't even check their oil!
Once again Matt, VERY nice to meet you and your wife. We've spoken over E-mail so many times, to finaly get to meet you helped to put a face with the name.
Be careful out there guys, check your tires, check your oil, wash your ears, and brush the big teeth in the back of your mouth!
Barn Man...