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RM Racing Brake air upgrade versus Dali

5 June 2000
Cypress, Texas USA
Anyone have any experience with RM Racing Front Spoiler with Brake Cooling Kit versus Dali Brake Air Deflector? I'm running the OEM brake setup and just want to have better cooling when running in club events this summer.

It looks like the Dali setup may provide more cooling but put more crap on my wheels. This isn't an issue when running track wheels/tires however I'd like to have my street setup looking clean without having to clean them every day.

The price difference isn't really an issue as I need to replace the front chin so the real decision is do I go Comptech W-Tech front spoiler with the Dali deflectors or do I go with the RM Racing setup.

Hal Jones
Lake Oswego, Oregon
95T Blk\Blk SportShift
Have you run into any heat-related problems with your brakes? If not, there's no need to do anything. ("If it ain't broke, don't fix it.") But OTOH if so...

The deflectors (like Dali's) can't bring in as much air as real ducts with inlets in the front air dam (I THINK this is what RM's are, along with replacing the entire chin spoiler, but I haven't seen them so I'm not familiar with them).

Another alternative is to install high-temp ducting without replacing the entire air dam. You can run it from inlets at the lower corners of the stock front end, use 2" ducting material, OVER the core support next to the bottom corners of the radiator, and through the A-arms to the brake calipers. If you still have the dust shields, even better - cut a 2" hole in them and weld a flange, use it as a mounting point for the end of the duct.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 21 January 2001).]
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Have you run into any heat-related problems with your brakes?

Actually I haven't had any problems but haven't taken my NSX to the track yet either. One of the more experienced BMW club members recommended the first things I should do is get track tires, put better brake fluid in, bleed my brakes before and after each event, find a brake pad that is somewhere between street and race and then if possible try to find a way to cool the brakes better.

He thought the track tires would make the car feel like I added anti-sway bars with regular street tires. Any feedback on this?

He was sensitive to the brakes because I have an sportshift and thought I would probably use them a little more than a manual. BTW has was blown away at the speed the sportshift shifted up and down.

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Another alternative is to install high-temp ducting without replacing the entire air dam.
Actually I was thinking about this last night as well while looking at the other setups. Have you done something like this? If so if you could post or send some picures.

Hal Jones
Lake Oswego, Oregon
95T Blk\Blk SportShift
As an experienced BMW club member myself (with ~100 track events, including ~30 as an instructor), I respect the ability and experience of their instructors but they are rarely familiar with the NSX and often give inappropriate advice.

First of all, I would do very little if anything to your car to mod it for the track, for several reasons: (1) you should get accustomed to driving it as is and then figure out what, if anything, needs to be improved; (2) if you've never been on the track before (you didn't say whether you've been on the track in other cars), you won't be using anywhere near the car's capabilities, so you'll really be easy on the car; and (3) the car is really very, very good as it comes from the factory, and you can take it right out on the track without doing ANYTHING.

The ONLY thing I would do is to flush the brakes with fresh fluid before you go out there, and yes as long as you're doing this, you may as well go for a high-performance fluid like Motul 600 or ATE Super Blue or Castrol SRF.

I think bleeding the brakes before and after every event is probably unnecessary (I just make sure my fluid has been flushed within the previous 6-8 months).

If you have plenty of pad material left on your brake pads, just leave them and use them; the stock pads are pretty darn good. (I'm assuming you've got the OEM NSX pads and you didn't get say cheapo pads from the corner auto parts store, which are not comparable.) What you might want to do is pick up a set of RM Racing's street/track pads and bring them with you as a spare, in case you use up your brake pads, which is generally recommended when you go to the track. (I get 3-4 track events in front, 4-5 events in the rear, so you can use that as a guide.) If you don't use them at the track, you can put them on the next time you change them on your car.

Note that brake fluid and brake pads are really not mods because you're going to be changing them regularly anyway. They're "consumables".

If and when you run into any problems with your brakes overheating (with symptoms of either fade or of shudder), ONLY THEN would I worry about doing brake ducts, and not until then. (I have ducts on my car but don't have photos handy, will try to get some at some point this spring.)

Forget the track tires; unless you have tons of track experience, you'll never get into their capabilities. Last year I did my first track event on track tires. Yes, they made a difference. But I can tell you that they would not have made a difference in the first 20 or 30 track events I drove.

It's also worth noting that at NSXPO 2000, where there were 65 NSX's on the track, I was on street tires and was one of the four fastest cars in the most experienced of the three run groups, and was passing other cars that had track tires and superchargers.

P.S. The OEM tires (Yokohama A022H or Bridgestone RE010) are actually very good on the track. They are pretty darn sticky, and they will give you more precise cornering than any tire, including track tires. An experienced track driver may get better lap times from track tires, but I think the OEM tires are far better for the novice driver.
I was looking at the price of track tires... man a lot less than buying new Potenzas. Do the track tires wear down a lot quicker?
Oh, you don't want to know.

Track tires generally last a couple of track events - figure maybe 300 track miles, if you're lucky.

They do vary from one type of track tire to another. The longer-lasting, more streetlike track tires (Yokohama A032R) last about one half as long on the street or track as the OEM Yokohama A022H. Tires like the Hoosier RS may last only half as long as the A032R or even less.

As you can tell from this, they are a lot more expensive than street tires, on a cost-per-mile basis.
If u just use track tires on the track, in other words, u drive with street tires to the track and change to track tires there. The Hoosier will last u about 300 track miles driven hard. And will last u about 500 track miles for driving school.

The A032 and Kumho will last u about 800 track miles for driving school, and maybe 500 track miles for race.

The BF goodrich Compt TA/R1 (older ones)
will last u about 700 track miles, for driving school and about 500 miles for race.
Originally posted by hejo:
I was looking at the price of track tires... man a lot less than buying new Potenzas. Do the track tires wear down a lot quicker?

I have had great success with my Hoosier slicks on the track. I put almost 1,200 miles of track driving before needing to replace my rears. As for the fronts, well I think I'll be able to get at least another 600-800 miles out of them. That's not so bad considering the amount of track time that I have run on them during the last four events at Sebring.
Thanks everyone for the info on tires. I was thinking about getting the track tires and wheels for another reason.... I don't want to trash my polished wheels.

Just to close the loop on the original post. If I'm going to drive weekend events, about 8 days this summer, it sounds like all I really need to do is upgrade fluid and pads.
The key to any brake air cooling upgrade is to remove the front deflectors.

Just to clarify - I think Chris is referring to the splash guards (sometimes called backing plates) that are alongside the calipers (behind them when you're looking at the wheel or hub from alongside the car), and not to the air deflectors, which are plastic strips or "wings" that are attached to one of the suspension members (and pictured on Dali Racing's website at http://www.daliracing.com/nsxcatalog/stop_faster/brake_deflector.cfm?focus=257 )

You CAN remove the splash guards - but on the other hand, you might be better off leaving them on. If you find that you need more cooling to the brakes, you can cut a hole in them and weld a flange there. This makes a great mounting point for cooling ducts, if you decide to install them.

However, all of this is unnecessary if you aren't overheating your brakes in the first place.