Supercoolers... Interesting

[Jimbo]

I saw this dialog on Autoweek. It's part of an interview with John Coletti who is the head of Ford's SVT program. Sounds interesting.


How does the supercooler work?

It uses the air conditioning compressor to generate a short blast of supercold air. Air from the supercharger is about 250 degrees Fahrenheit. The intercooler takes it down to about 150 degrees, With the supercooler, we can get temperatures of about 50 degrees. You are creating a denser charge for each power stroke. It works like a nitrous oxide system and adds between 50 and 60 horsepower. The system is self-contained and never needs recharging.

How much cost does the supercooler add?

Early estimates are about $750. But keep in mind that performance enthusiasts will pay for horsepower. I contend that performance enthusiasts will pay between $25 and $30 per horsepower. If I can give them a 100-horsepower kick, they'd gladly pay me three grand for it. So you are talking about giving them a 50 to 60 horsepower kick for under $1,000.

Can the supercooler be used on other Ford products?

Anything that is boosted (with a supercharger or turbocharger) and has an intercooler. The Mustang Cobra has that setup. The GT has it. You draw your own conclusions. If we need more power, it's on tap.

 

[Number9]

Your air conditioner isn't capable of generating a 100-degree F delta from ambient air so how would it manage that as a charge cooler?

 

[Jimbo]

Good question. Obviously Ford has found a way.

Of course, an air conditioner can't drop the interior temperature down by 100 degrees, but perhaps it can when working on a smaller volume of air. I know certain air conditioner parts can get very cold indeed.

This is real exciting.

-Jim

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Good question. Obviously Ford has found a way.

"Obviously?" I'm a theoretical mathematician and it isn't at all obvious to me. Repeat after me, "not everything I read or hear is true..."

[This message has been edited by Number9 (edited 27 February 2003).]

 

[Jimbo]

You're right. This is some big Ford conspiricy to put out false information to the public. I guess they think that this public lying will help them sell cars. Surely, their patents are bogus, the concept is bogus, it's not possible according to theoretical mathematics, etc....

Here's some more bogus information....

Cool Technology Takes Power to New Levels

Coletti?s team fit the SVT Lightning concept with an all-aluminum, 5.4-liter DOHC supercharged and intercooled V-8 engine conservatively rated at 500 horsepower and 500 foot pounds of torque (SAE net). And while they were at it, they invented and patented a speed secret for those times when even that much power just isn?t enough.

Ford?s patented SuperCooler technology cleverly provides a special burst of power for the SVT Lightning concept. Traditional intercoolers dissipate heat from the supercharged air by circulating coolant through a front-mounted, air-cooled radiator. With the SuperCooler system, the vehicle?s air conditioning system is used to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit.

On demand, the SuperCooler system switches the intercooler flow from its normal circulation and dumps the chilled coolant into the engine?s intercooler. In turn, the intercooler dissipates up to 20 percent more heat from the charge air - resulting in a denser air charge.

A green light on the instrument panel indicates the system?s readiness. SuperCooler is activated automatically when the driver depresses the accelerator to a wide-open-throttle position.

"This technology plays directly into the hands of the enthusiast," Coletti says. "The SuperCooler provides the edge for the driver, and it is done simply by taking advantage of the hardware that already exists in the vehicle."

As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions. While its effect is similar to that of an aftermarket nitrous oxide system, the SuperCooler is completely self-contained, environmentally friendly and regenerative.

The SVT Lightning concept engine features a Lysholm, screw-type supercharger, paired with both an intercooler and the new SuperCooler system. The 32-valve, double-overhead-cam powerplant boasts Manley connecting rods, two fuel injectors per cylinder and high-performance heads similar to those on the limited-edition 2000 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R.

Exhaust gases escape through free-flowing headers and dual side pipes, producing a classic American V-8 rumble. Power is delivered to the rear wheels through a six-speed manual transmission. The same Tremec T-56 transmission is used in the 2003 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra. In keeping with the performance nature of the SVT Lightning, the short-throw, console-mounted shifter is more like that of a sports car than a traditional pickup?s long-shaft, floor mounted shift lever.

 

[Number9]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
You're right. This is some big Ford conspiricy to put out false information to the public. I guess they think that this public lying will help them sell cars. Surely, their patents are bogus, the concept is bogus, it's not possible according to theoretical mathematics, etc....

Here's some more bogus information....

Nice that you should mention that, but I'm a patent lawyer too, and an MBA and I still call bullshit. You're way too gullible...

 

[CiaoBoy]

Originally posted by Number9:
Your air conditioner isn't capable of generating a 100-degree F delta from ambient air so how would it manage that as a charge cooler?

Maybe it can be done. Just depends on what temperatures you're starting from and trying to end up with. Keep in mind that the greater the differential, the faster heat will transfer. If outside air is 70 degrees, your air conditioner isn't going to be able to cool it down to -30 degrees because it's using the environment as its heat sink and the environment is still at 70 degrees. However, if the air inside the intercooler is 150, the air conditioner will get a lot of help because the environment is already considerably cooler at 70 degrees. It may not be that much more work to decrease it an additional 20 degrees.

-CiaoBoy

 

[KODIAC]

Its ford....

nuff said....

*cough* PIECE OF SH!T *cough* *cough*

 

[Ponyboy]

I'm a theoretical mathematician...I'm a patent lawyer too, and an MBA...

Yeah but did you know that the human head weighs 11lbs?

Someone needs some affirmation.

 

[lowellhigh79]

Import racers fill their intercooler tank with ice, this supercooler simply does the same thing automatically. Both are short lived performance boosts, although the supercooler can replenish itself. Not sure what is so ground breaking about this. They should spend more time on improving the desgns of the air liquid intercoolers first.

 

[Lud]

There are a few key words in the description that give an idea how this works. It doesn't sound like rocket science at all. There are probably a dozen people on this forum who could rig a system like that.

The reason it's not rocket science is because it only works for short bursts of cooling. If it were "always on", it would really be a great innovation.

The system they are talking about mentions that it uses the AC system to cool and store chilled liquid, then dumps it into the intercooler. It's only good for maybe 30 seconds (and the effectiveness probably drops off quickly as it heats up). Then it re-chills or re-compresses the coolant, which is going to draw power from the engine.

So it sounds useful for street or possibly drag strip racing, but largely useless at a road course track unless you want to activate it down the main straight every few laps at the expense of a little less power for the next few minutes. Maybe there is some edge to be had there, but I think it's probably closer to a zero sum game, esp. once you consider the added weight and complexity of the system.

And at the drag strip, icing your manifold and intercooler/aftercooler is as old as the hills and can be done more effectively than this system for just a few dollars worth of bagged ice.

So I think it's really only for the lazy drag racer, avid street racer, or just for bragging rights. Just my opinion.

 

[Number9]

Fair point Lud. A device that consumes more net power than it makes and is only available for brief transients isn't especially useful for the reasons you cite. It's even a poor substitute for N2O. (And Ponyboy, I didn't know that! Don't need affirmation, just like school...)

No kudos to Ford for such an "invention."

[This message has been edited by Number9 (edited 27 February 2003).]

 

[Jimbo]

I think it's a pretty "cool" idea. The weight penalty for 50-60 extra HP seems to be slight. Afterall, most cars driven on the street anyway have airco units already.

I've often toyed with the idea of N2O setups but they're a pain to maintain and of course, illegal.

As Lud points out, it would be of no value on a road course racetrack, but it seems like a nice way to get that extra kick for the street and the dragstrip.

Of course, that's only if this thing exists. Like those bogus, faked moon landings in the late 60s, this is most likely only some elaborate hoax.

-Jim

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 28 February 2003).]

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I've often toyed with the idea of N2O setups but they're a pain to maintain and of course, illegal.

People say this all the time, and I always ask them to cite which law prohibits nitrous oxide in a car, beyond maybe some CA emissions law. So far nobody has gotten back to me....?

 

[KODIAC]

Originally posted by Lud:
People say this all the time, and I always ask them to cite which law prohibits nitrous oxide in a car, beyond maybe some CA emissions law. So far nobody has gotten back to me....?

I never said it, but I knew it...
and I can cite a law....

40-8-10.

"(a) It shall be unlawful for any person on a public road
to drive a passenger car, excluding a motor home, which
supplies the motor vehicle's combustion engine with
nitrous oxide unless the system supplying nitrous oxide is
made inoperative by disconnecting the line feeding nitrous
oxide to the engine or by removing the container or
containers of nitrous oxide from the vehicle.

(b) Any person who violates subsection (a) of this Code
section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."


so I guess we can only do it here in RVs

 

[Lud]

Very interesting, thanks! But I assume that a state or local law? I haven't been able to find anything similar in my state or locality. There is no federal law against it is there?

 

[KODIAC]

Originally posted by Lud:
Very interesting, thanks! But I assume that a state or local law? I haven't been able to find anything similar in my state or locality. There is no federal law against it is there?

yes this is a GA law, but if its here, it can be in other states too....

if its not in your state, then that means its not federal, cause federal would superceed any state or local city law.


I forget, what state you in? I'll look it up for sh!tz...

 

[Factor X Motorsports]

This has been an idea for several years now. Last we heard was the increased load created by the AC caused very little net gain. It sounds like they are making strides though.

Speed Safely,

Factor X Engineering www.factorxengineering.com