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Toyo R888 versus Dunlop Star Spec Z1

Joined
8 March 2006
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Boston
I am changing wheels so I will have 17x8 fronts and 18x10 rears. Currently running Dunlop SS Z1's and been very happy. Now that I have access to more sizes, I am also considering the Toyo R888. I have zero experience with this tire. Car is a street driven weekend-only sunny day daily driver that sees limited track duty.

Not all that concerned with wear to be honest. Which tire would you recommend to me (Ken)? I especially want to hear from guys with track experience who know both tires.
 
I have both and while the star spec may be longer lasting and quieter - there is no comparison grip wise.

If you want more grip get the 888's.
 
Angus are you driving on the street with the R888?
 
Get the NT01 over the R888. Grip is the same, and wear is about the same. Price of the NT01s is MUCH better - I think about $300 a set cheaper (235/40/17 & 275/40/17).

Some people will say the R888 is better in the rain. Maybe true (actually they both suck), but both are 6/32nds tread and they won't have much tread left after a few track days and/or 2-3 thousand miles. BTW: The tires are only about 2/3 done when they are completely bald - drive them until they cord. :)

WARNING: Both NT01 and R888 are noisy on the street. Not annoyingly so, but think - hum of a knobby truck tire. hummmmmmmm. :wink:

Also, the same price as the R888 is the Toyo RA1 which will be MUCH better than both in the wet and probably last a little longer and the grip is comparable.

THE RA1 WOULD BE MY CHOICE FOR A COMBO STREET/TRACK TIRE FOLLOWED CLOSELY BY THE NT01. I have gone through 1 set of R888s and 6 sets of NT01s. Why the NT01? $300 a set cheaper and I like them the same or a little better than the R888.

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<img src="http://www.racetire.com/products/images/r888.jpg" height="300"/>
 
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I have driven on both the Z1 SS and R888 on the street and they're not really comparable. The Dunlop is a fantastic tire on the streets, much more comfortable. As for your purpose, a weekend driver, don't go with the R888 because you'll see minimal benefits.

The R888 needs time to warm up since its R-compound and the wear, oh god, it is really not good at all. On the street, half the time you won't be making use of the tire anyways. If you're looking for ultimate grip and tracks then maybe consider Nitto's NT01 as well? Its cheaper and offers comparable amount of grip and handling feel.

On the street, I will suggest just sticking with the Z1 SS, RE-11, AD08 etc all fantastic tires that will do probably a better job on the street than the R-comps.
 
Dave, if you are going to have limited track time - I would say without a doubt don't run R-comps on the street. Period. It's like dating a super model and NOT banging her. She's going to take time to warm up and you aren't really going to see any benefits other than knowing you have a hot one.

If you are going to track - and occasionally drive on the street then ya run the R-comps. I did that an entire summer with my last set of NT01s.

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I just finished off my AD08s. I'm due for a new set of tires and going with the Continental DWs. Why? Because for the street, there really is NO benefit of having a super sticky AD08 or Z1 SS. If you think you are using the capabilities of that tire on the street you are fooling yourself. I want something that is quieter and wears better. But I don't want something that swings completely the other way - like an all-season with soft sidewalls. And then get track wheels and NT01s or Hoosier R6s. :wink: Street tires for the street and track tires for the track - just like my brake pads. And if I have wheels/tires for the track, why would I want something super sticky, noisy and wears quickly to drive around on the street?

I have not run the Continentals but they have good reviews and probably have very good grip - probably not what I would want to track with but enough to outrun the cops. :tongue:
 

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For the few events I do per year it sounds like I should avoid all the R comps. Just driving to the track with something noisier than the Z1 is probably going to give me a headache.
 
Dave, how many events do you plan on doing?

Are you selling your OEM 17s? No. You would regret it eventually. So...... see option 2 below. :)

What are the new wheels?

Option 1: Keep your OEMs as your streets and use the new rims for track and mount RA1/R888/NT01.

Option 2: Keep your new wheels for the street and use your OEMs as track wheels - a 205/40/17 & 255/40/17 RA1/R888/NT01 will work just fine. That's what I ran on my OEM 17/17s.
And yes, a 205/40 R-comp will have more grip than the 215/40 Z1 SS. :)

Option 3: Run Z1 SS for the track and street

Option 4: Run a R-Comp for the track and street.

I drive 2-1/2 hrs each way to track and the noise isn't really that bad. They just have a hum to them. Not real loud, but noticeable if you are listening for it. My GF wouldn't even notice because she's not listening for it. So don't shy away from running R-Comps to/from the track. It takes me 10 minutes to jack up the car, change all four wheels and be on my way to the track.

HOWEVER - I think running R-comps on the street permanently is stupid unless you are planning on doing some track days (maybe 3-5 a season) AND you don't have another set of wheels to use for track wheels.

And Hoosiers aren't really an option unless some else is going to bring your wheels/tires for you and switch at the track. :mad:
 
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Dave, how many events do you plan on doing?

4-5

Are you selling your OEM 17s?

Not planning on it right now, although I am not 100%. I am keeping them at least for the immediate future.

What are the new wheels?

Advan RSII. 17x8 +37 and 18x10 +35. They are NSX-R weight.

And Hoosiers aren't really an option unless some else is going to bring your wheels/tires for you and switch at the track. :mad:

I don't have the experience to go to hoosiers. I actually made a post in the track section on input for going the OTHER way, low grip tires... to learn better.
 
I say go with option 2.

A set of R-comps will last you 4-5 weekends and to/from no problem.

And by the end of the season, your track tires will be used up and if you want then you can sell the 02 OEMs. BUT at the end of the season your street tires are still going to be in great shape and you won't be buying another set.

So cost wise you are looking at about an extra $668 (shipped) for 205/40/17 & 255/40/17 NT01s from discounttiredirect.com and like I said, you won't be buying another set of whatever tires you get for the street. Which BTW you don't have to get Extreme street tires now because you have something else for the track. You can go with something like a Continental DW which supposedly has plenty of grip for aggressive street driving but also a 340 wear rating. I can't really comment on how good they are, the reviews are excellent, but those are going to be my next set of street tires because I won't be tracking them too like I was with the Z1 SS or AD08 (which IMO are about the same as the Z1 SS but a lot more $$$) and they will wear a lot better.

And you will still be learning - R comps are just like the Z1 SS but with more grip. Once you drive on them at the track you WILL love them. It will give you more confidence to keep pushing harder and if you go back to street tires you will carry that aggressiveness with you and be even faster on streets. That's exactly what I did and all of a sudden my street tire (Z1 SS) lap times were 2 seconds faster than before.
 
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It will give you more confidence to keep pushing harder and if you go back to street tires you will carry that aggressiveness with you and be even faster on streets. That's exactly what I did and all of a sudden my street tire (Z1 SS) lap times were 2 seconds faster than before.

Thats very interesting... good to know... now I really want to try them.
 
And you will still be learning - R comps are just like the Z1 SS but with more grip. Once you drive on them at the track you WILL love them. It will give you more confidence to keep pushing harder and if you go back to street tires you will carry that aggressiveness with you and be even faster on streets. That's exactly what I did and all of a sudden my street tire (Z1 SS) lap times were 2 seconds faster than before.

that happens to me as well... but not everyone has same experience.

What do you guys do over there when there's a rainy track day??

I learnt a lot in those conditions, and that's why I keep my Z1 as street tires for that purpose.
 
I have the Dunlops on my Mini and I thought they performed very well at the track.
 
I have both and while the star spec may be longer lasting and quieter - there is no comparison grip wise.

If you want more grip get the 888's.

This.

I know this from personal experience on the GTO.

I drove the GTO on the streets and even in the rain where it did pretty decent in the rain.

I liked these tires so much that I got a set for my truck....... yes the S10.
 
I have the SS on my car. Only 2 track days on them driving to and from the track. I think for your purpose which is pretty much identical to mine, id go Dunlops. They offer plenty of warning before they break too...ask me how i know that:smile:Almost had a bad day. I think for my next set i want to go with the NT01. Not sure how good the tread life is though.
 
Which tire would you recommend to me (Ken)? I especially want to hear from guys with track experience who know both tires.
Sorry for the late response (I was at the track this week). I agree with most of the comments above.

I like the way Jim lays out the four options. You need to decide whether to have two sets of tires, so you can optimize one for the street, the other for the track, or only one set of tires, which will be optimized for one situation and less than optimal for the other.

R compounds, including the R888 and NT01, are better for the track because they're stickier. For the street, street tires, including the Star Spec, are better because they last longer, they grip better in rain, they don't need to get hot like R comps, etc. If you go with one set of tires in both situations, those are the tradeoffs to consider.
 
I just finished off my AD08s. I'm due for a new set of tires and going with the Continental DWs. Why? Because for the street, there really is NO benefit of having a super sticky AD08 or Z1 SS. If you think you are using the capabilities of that tire on the street you are fooling yourself. I want something that is quieter and wears better. But I don't want something that swings completely the other way - like an all-season with soft sidewalls. And then get track wheels and NT01s or Hoosier R6s. :wink: Street tires for the street and track tires for the track - just like my brake pads. And if I have wheels/tires for the track, why would I want something super sticky, noisy and wears quickly to drive around on the street?

I have not run the Continentals but they have good reviews and probably have very good grip - probably not what I would want to track with but enough to outrun the cops. :tongue:

I've been really happy with the Conti DW on my street wheels, been using them for about 2 years now. More than enough grip to still have fun on a twisty road and damn good in the rain. I wouldn't bother with anything stickier on the street honestly.
 
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