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Type S (Upgrades only add up to 600 HP?)
- Thread starter chillznax
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You just made the list Buddy!
I'm excited....what list?
Lol, you made the movie reference. Watch the scene again. I’m just kidding.
chillznaz: I do understand your point of view on the advertised hp on the S Type. Acura has apparently made a lot of improvements to the car and I suspect their hp figures are conservative. But even if they aren't, I do believe the car will be quicker than the NC1's by a margin greater than the marginal hp gain implies. The torque curve is probably significantly better and we know the car is supposed to shift even faster than before. I've run my 2017 a bunch at both 1/8 mile and 1/4 tracks here in Socal and am extremely impressed with its performance. My belief is that my car, completely stock, is a high 10 second car (7.0s in the 1/8 mile in far from ideal conditions) and with the stock exhaust and no other changes other than the Science of Speed JB4 tuning box is a mid 10 second car at over 130 mph in the quarter mile. I've posted several time slips in the thread titled, "Science of Speed Tune Review". These have all been made under far from optimal weather and traction conditions (AD of 2900 to 4900 feet). My car is a lighter car with the all the carbon fiber options and the carbon ceramic brakes. Even with just the 93 octane setting on the JB4 my car, again in not so great traction conditions and weather conditions, has run 10.75 secs at close to 130 mph in the 1/4 mile and with completely stock tires - the Continental Sportcontact 6s. I've beaten Hellcats with drag slicks, every C8 by bus lengths, ZR1's with drag slicks,a BMW M5 Competiton Sport Plus, a Shelby GT, numerous ZL1 Camaros and Corvettes even with drag slicks. And honestly it hasn't even been close. I feel the only factory cars I would have trouble against other than the Tesla Plaid, Porsche Taycan are the Maclarens and the new 992 911 Turbo S. So that's doing pretty darned well IMO. And the NC1 does this without much need for driver skill. A stock 991.2 911 turbo ran at Irwindale and its best time was a 7.19 sec 1/8 mile - slower than my bone stock NC1.
As far as the brakes go my car has the carbon ceramics and that's just how it came. I'd probably enjoy it just as much with the regular brakes and I am sure the braking performance would still be awesome and I am sure you will too.
I'm a drag racing nut and speed demon and so the thought of getting gapped by a ZL1 anything, of Dodge anything honestly irks me - even from a roll. But with the JB4 I feel pretty confident about going up against these cars from a roll under any reasonable conditions and from any sort of slow roll its not even going to be close.
In the end there is always going to be someone who can beat you and who is faster than you are. That's life. But the NC1 makes up for all that with its styling, every day driver comfort and superior handling under most driving conditions for people who aren't professional race car drivers. It also does this with a strong record of long term reliability and durability. Lexus and Acura IMO will always be conservative as far as stressing and pushing limits. On their normally aspirated engines, for example, Lexus seems to stick by the under 100 hp per liter rule. That's how they accomplish real world reputations for long term quality and reliability. Yes, manufacturers have to pass a set of varying conditions during durability and emissions testing but some care enough to go above and beyond and this helps with real world long term reliability and durability. I've seen countless Dodge's, Camaros, Mustangs break at the track when put under conditions of duress. Also, as far as my experience goes. those cars have trouble running close to the magazine times or manufacturer times. At Famoso they have an Import car race day coming up and my daughter commented "It will be so nice to not have Dodge's and Fords break down and take away run time from us." I've also heard many complaints from owners of those cars at the track about how their cars had to be modified to even get close to the advertised performance figures. Also, consider the safety factors. I've seen these cars lose control and crash into the walls at the track.
I personally hope you enjoy your car when you do get it and that you. like I did after driving mine, come to love it and understand that there are so many trade offs when it comes to building a car and that while you made not agree with every decision made, overall see what a great job Acura did. I think everything I am saying is going to be even more magnified with the S Type.
We all have different priorities and expectations out of our automotive purchases and in the end what we choose is a very personal decision for which there is no right or wrong answer and it's all these differences that allow the multitude of offerings in the marketplace today - otherwise we would all end up buying the same thing. That being said, I've learned A LOT from others in this forum and am so happy to have discovered it. We all have our up moments and down moments and frustrations but overall this forum has been an extremely positive earning experience for me. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and try not let things escalate.
I haven't been on the forum for that long but would like to say welcome to you and hope your NSX makes you happy when you get it!
As far as the brakes go my car has the carbon ceramics and that's just how it came. I'd probably enjoy it just as much with the regular brakes and I am sure the braking performance would still be awesome and I am sure you will too.
I'm a drag racing nut and speed demon and so the thought of getting gapped by a ZL1 anything, of Dodge anything honestly irks me - even from a roll. But with the JB4 I feel pretty confident about going up against these cars from a roll under any reasonable conditions and from any sort of slow roll its not even going to be close.
In the end there is always going to be someone who can beat you and who is faster than you are. That's life. But the NC1 makes up for all that with its styling, every day driver comfort and superior handling under most driving conditions for people who aren't professional race car drivers. It also does this with a strong record of long term reliability and durability. Lexus and Acura IMO will always be conservative as far as stressing and pushing limits. On their normally aspirated engines, for example, Lexus seems to stick by the under 100 hp per liter rule. That's how they accomplish real world reputations for long term quality and reliability. Yes, manufacturers have to pass a set of varying conditions during durability and emissions testing but some care enough to go above and beyond and this helps with real world long term reliability and durability. I've seen countless Dodge's, Camaros, Mustangs break at the track when put under conditions of duress. Also, as far as my experience goes. those cars have trouble running close to the magazine times or manufacturer times. At Famoso they have an Import car race day coming up and my daughter commented "It will be so nice to not have Dodge's and Fords break down and take away run time from us." I've also heard many complaints from owners of those cars at the track about how their cars had to be modified to even get close to the advertised performance figures. Also, consider the safety factors. I've seen these cars lose control and crash into the walls at the track.
I personally hope you enjoy your car when you do get it and that you. like I did after driving mine, come to love it and understand that there are so many trade offs when it comes to building a car and that while you made not agree with every decision made, overall see what a great job Acura did. I think everything I am saying is going to be even more magnified with the S Type.
We all have different priorities and expectations out of our automotive purchases and in the end what we choose is a very personal decision for which there is no right or wrong answer and it's all these differences that allow the multitude of offerings in the marketplace today - otherwise we would all end up buying the same thing. That being said, I've learned A LOT from others in this forum and am so happy to have discovered it. We all have our up moments and down moments and frustrations but overall this forum has been an extremely positive earning experience for me. Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and try not let things escalate.
I haven't been on the forum for that long but would like to say welcome to you and hope your NSX makes you happy when you get it!
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Settle down Francis.
wow, it was a joke. Guess I should have picked a different line to quote.
Exactly the type of input I was looking for with this thread. It's not pretentious; you're not freaking out because I mentioned Dodge and telling me I should just go own one if I can't appreciate the car! You're not dissing on me because I can't afford CC brakes (I probably can) and implying I must be the type to put cheap gas in the car. I figure Acura wouldn't offer the steel rotors if they weren't worthy of being on the car. I really just wanted to hear owners input of their thoughts on the 600hp rating. Maybe people think the car is underrated, or as you mention the torque curve could be significantly different. Perhaps it's far more than meeting emissions while providing a warranty and that Honda truly doesn't want to see these cars coming back. I can respect that. I mention Dodge, go ahead and tell me that you've seen them break. It doesn't mean I want one, I'm just furthering the conversation. Maybe Dodge provides a warranty but you're absolutely going to need it whereas you'll never use it with the NSX. More importantly, you offer not only constructive input but your experience with the car and real world comparisons against the competition.
I live at 4200 ft here in SLC UT. I love canyon carving but hitting a road like Guardsman Pass and you're at 9700 feet. My experience with NA cars is that they're weak up here. A big part of buying this car is because I think at this elevation the car is going to be hard to beat. Electric motors don't care about elevation and turbos mostly compensate for it. I like roll racing and I'm hoping the car has enough up top to give cars a run for their money. I'm also interested in that JB4 tune but I wonder if it'll be an option for the Type S. It's a piggy back tune so maybe Science of Speed needs to get their hands on a car to make sure they don't push parameters too far when manipulating the sensor values. Also, thank you for hoping I enjoy the car regardless of what spec I get.
chillznax: Here are a couple of fun to watch links featuring the NC1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9VDWJTrNtM&t=362s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il8CCSPYpSk&t=311s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUSb8cjECDE
The JB4 can add up to 100 extra hp to your ICE and that helps a lot with the top end charge where the electric motors don't. The electric motors give you that instant thrust off the line and also from a roll. It's very difficult for others to play catch up when you get the kind of jump that you can get with the NSX before the other cars can get into their power band.
I hope Science of Speed and Berger Motorsports do something for the S Type. 300 units with a sizable percentage that probably won't be driven much might make it financially unappealing to do the development work. I'm sure they are disappointed with Acura's decision to discontinue the NC1 as it limits the market potential for what they have developed this far. If they need a car to develop a tune I'll gladly let them borrow mine if I end up getting one but they probably have connections in AZ with customers who live closer and with whom they have worked with in the past who are getting an S Type. I think great potential is there with the larger turbo set up the S Type is getting.
I haven't read any negative reviews on the standard brakes. As you say if Acura determined they were good enough to make standard they probably work great. Not everyone is a multi-millionaire that can afford several cars and I understand that for some people getting a new NSX is a financial stretch and of course there is going to be some anxiety as to whether you are doing the right thing or not and some pricey options have to be carefully weighed on the pros and cons versus the cost. Plus there are always people out there that feed into any doubts you might have.
When I traded in my 2019 Lexus GSF for the NSX a few people told me not to do it - saying that the GSF is a much better car for use in Los Angeles and that I was going to regret doing it. Then after getting the car I've had the usual nay sayers comment that a ZL1 Camaro or Hellcat would smoke me at a fraction of the cost etc etc. But that hasn't been my experience at all. And honestly people that tell you stuff like that are usually jealous or the types who only believe in buying American and often they don't have an eye for quality and might look at vehicles in a less holistic manner - isolating just a couple of parameters as being important. Not trying to diss those cars because for the money they do provide excellent value and they are within reach of a much larger audience because they cost less. However, the NSX is in a completely different league - as it should be given the price differential. To me the NSX is worth every penny and I have no regrets buying one whatsoever - it[s a truly amazingly designed and crafted machine with very usable power. You don't have to be a professional driver to feel confident in driving it aggressively. I don't think you will be disappointed when you get to drive yours. These cars were so ahead of their time and truly under appreciated by many.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9VDWJTrNtM&t=362s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il8CCSPYpSk&t=311s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUSb8cjECDE
The JB4 can add up to 100 extra hp to your ICE and that helps a lot with the top end charge where the electric motors don't. The electric motors give you that instant thrust off the line and also from a roll. It's very difficult for others to play catch up when you get the kind of jump that you can get with the NSX before the other cars can get into their power band.
I hope Science of Speed and Berger Motorsports do something for the S Type. 300 units with a sizable percentage that probably won't be driven much might make it financially unappealing to do the development work. I'm sure they are disappointed with Acura's decision to discontinue the NC1 as it limits the market potential for what they have developed this far. If they need a car to develop a tune I'll gladly let them borrow mine if I end up getting one but they probably have connections in AZ with customers who live closer and with whom they have worked with in the past who are getting an S Type. I think great potential is there with the larger turbo set up the S Type is getting.
I haven't read any negative reviews on the standard brakes. As you say if Acura determined they were good enough to make standard they probably work great. Not everyone is a multi-millionaire that can afford several cars and I understand that for some people getting a new NSX is a financial stretch and of course there is going to be some anxiety as to whether you are doing the right thing or not and some pricey options have to be carefully weighed on the pros and cons versus the cost. Plus there are always people out there that feed into any doubts you might have.
When I traded in my 2019 Lexus GSF for the NSX a few people told me not to do it - saying that the GSF is a much better car for use in Los Angeles and that I was going to regret doing it. Then after getting the car I've had the usual nay sayers comment that a ZL1 Camaro or Hellcat would smoke me at a fraction of the cost etc etc. But that hasn't been my experience at all. And honestly people that tell you stuff like that are usually jealous or the types who only believe in buying American and often they don't have an eye for quality and might look at vehicles in a less holistic manner - isolating just a couple of parameters as being important. Not trying to diss those cars because for the money they do provide excellent value and they are within reach of a much larger audience because they cost less. However, the NSX is in a completely different league - as it should be given the price differential. To me the NSX is worth every penny and I have no regrets buying one whatsoever - it[s a truly amazingly designed and crafted machine with very usable power. You don't have to be a professional driver to feel confident in driving it aggressively. I don't think you will be disappointed when you get to drive yours. These cars were so ahead of their time and truly under appreciated by many.
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"Q: Why doesn’t the Type S have 650-700 horsepower?A: NSX has never been about ultimate performance numbers, but about an engaging driving experiencethat is both approachable to the novice and challenging for the pro. Its mission has always been to engageand excite the driver with an unmatched driving experience. That remains true with the NSX Type S. "
This is directly from the NSX type S Dealer Playbook.
Think Honda is not trying to be Dodge or Farrari or etc. They are bing Honda.
This is directly from the NSX type S Dealer Playbook.
Think Honda is not trying to be Dodge or Farrari or etc. They are bing Honda.
I love those videos and have watched them a few times. In your experience do you think that red roll racing NSX is tuned? I can't imagine that thing is stock. I love how the Corvette and 911 are racing and the NSX walks by them out of nowhere. I think it's awesome that DragTimes has posted those videos. A lot of people have realized that the the NSX is way quicker than people give it credit for. I'm pretty sure that third video is here in UT. Watching that NSX crush an Aventador with significantly more power here at elevation is a big reason I have been hooked on getting one. I think that Aventador would have fared much better around sea level.
That's interesting, I didn't know that. It's too bad then that so many of the initial reviews dissed on the 2017 car. I feel like nearly every professional reviewer had their mind made up before they even sat in the car. It's like they looked at the specs and thought "this is heavy and electronic therefor I'm going to talk about how it's not engaging and how the weight holds it back in the corners". Then you see reviews from TheSmokingTire where that dude is constantly hooning cars in the canyon and he says he absolutely loves it and how it doesn't feel heavy and is incredibly fast in the canyons. I have a feeling these professional reviewers have come around by now. Next we'll hear "The Type S has stolen the Turbos, injectors, and intercoolers from the GT3 Evo race car. The electric motors dig deeper into the battery and the front motors have been geared down for harder launches. It's only a 27 hp gain over the regular NSX but this thing is INCREDIBLE!!! The electronics do their magic and keep you planted in the corners. With this weight you'd expect massive amounts of understeer but instead it just pulls you through the apex hard!". It's already written, I bet that's what we'll see when the regular NSX did exactly that.
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chillznax: The black NSX in the Dragtimes video sounds like it has downpipes or an aftermarket exhaust. And the way it pulled away from the Huracan even from a roll makes me think it's running a JB4. I initially wondered since they made it seems like the NSX was a rental from an exotic car place why an exotic car rental would modify the car. But the Huracan should be a 10.8 sec quarter mile car and very strong from a roll and that NSX pulled hard against it. The standstill races they show are just like what I experience with my NSX even in races where in theory the car I am racing should be as quick or quicker in the quarter mile. The NSX is so easy to launch and pulls away like the other car is standing still. Of course it's the AWD coupled with the instant torque the electric motors deliver. But I've raced a tuned AudiR8 V10 w AWD and slightly modified GTR's many times and pulled away from them pretty hard throughout the race. They've bemoaned the fact they spent so much on an aftermarket exhaust and ECM flash tuning which can cause issues here in Socal with emission testing and they are still slower than my NSX with a stock exhaust and a plug and play JB4 set up. I did lose to one of the GTR's at Irwindale. I ran a 6.87 @ 104 mph and he ran a 6.84 @ 106 mph. I beat him to the finish line because I got a better reaction time but he had a slightly quicker ET. His car had drag slicks and the wide body rear quarter set up. My daughter tried to ask him what modifications he had but he wouldn't say. He did tell her that he was surprised at how fast my NSX is and told her I really knew how to drive based on my reaction time.
In my circle at the tracks I drag race at the NSX has definitely gained a lot of respect. I've smoked quite a few modified Cadillac CTS's and they've come up to me afterwards and said how amazing the NSX is in that it just has a plug and play and they are trailering their cars in with drag slicks and loads of mods wile I am driving in and out on street tires. The Z06 Vettes and Zl1 Camaros of course have trouble hooking up with street tires and even with drag slicks but honestly they don't even run the mph in the 1/8 or 1/4 mile that you would expect. I can understand the ET being not so good due to a lack of traction but the mph is down too. I've generally been racing in really hot conditions - usually triple digit temps and DAs of 4000 feet plus so maybe that hurts the naturally aspirated cars more than the NSX and they are just heat soaked.
In my circle at the tracks I drag race at the NSX has definitely gained a lot of respect. I've smoked quite a few modified Cadillac CTS's and they've come up to me afterwards and said how amazing the NSX is in that it just has a plug and play and they are trailering their cars in with drag slicks and loads of mods wile I am driving in and out on street tires. The Z06 Vettes and Zl1 Camaros of course have trouble hooking up with street tires and even with drag slicks but honestly they don't even run the mph in the 1/8 or 1/4 mile that you would expect. I can understand the ET being not so good due to a lack of traction but the mph is down too. I've generally been racing in really hot conditions - usually triple digit temps and DAs of 4000 feet plus so maybe that hurts the naturally aspirated cars more than the NSX and they are just heat soaked.
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I agree with you, plus there was another factor that I didn't think about until I spent half a day on the track with one of the lead NSX testers. He told me that he couldn't get max performance out of the car at first because he was driving it the same way he did every other high-performance car he'd driven in his multi-decade career. It wasn't until he learned the nuances of the SH-SH-AWD system and how to push it that he realized just how amazing a car the NSX is. He told me that it requires him to do things like enter and exit certain turns differently, and that he only figured that out by spending lots of hours in it (which is something no magazine or YouTube reviewer is going to do).
That's interesting. I actually met a (Id call him "young") test driver for Acura that drives a 911 GT3. He had tried on a track multiple other manufacturer cars during Acura/Honda's initial development of the NSX. He seemed to think that his Porsche was better way to go than the NSX, as in "there is no comparison". I have to wonder with what you are saying if it's just a factor of driving technique. The NSX will make mince meat out of my 458 on the track from what Ive seen from lap times. Plus, every Porsche 911 looks the same to me, every year and every variation. How often do you see a 2nd gen NSX? This guy also claimed last spring to me that "no type R/ type S is in the works for Honda" so he has already lost credibility with me there.
I completely agree with the earlier statement about people making up their mind about this car before getting to know it and it pisses me off. I have car friends that pretty much never venture out of European cars. It drives me nuts when they judge it based on a rare 15 min test drive comparing to a GT3 or a Huracan that they drove an entire afternoon through country roads. There also seems to be a curse with Japanese cars that was around in the 90s and still is here today: "no one wants to spend alot of money on a Japanese car". I think this holds alot of people back. Hopefully I can get these guys to try my GT350 and (future NSX) on some rallies, maybe they will change their minds.
Cyborg horses :biggrin:
I was just keeping the movie dialogue going. I love Stripes and I'm an almanac of movie quotes.
One of the reasons you might want ceramic brakes versus steel was alluded to when DJIceman mentioned the Pro driver who indicated he needed to relearn some driving techniques to take advantage of the electric motors. So you brake later into a turn and then use the electric motors to rotate you through the turn. In order to do this on the track it is very beneficial to have brakes that hold up well under extreme conditions. That is what ceramic brakes provide over steel. I have heard the same relearn driving with the NSX from another Pro driver.
I can appreciate this. Obviously if you want the car to hold up to the abuse to perform these maneuvers then CC is undoubtedly the way to go. I've heard something similar with driving style with this car. That when the car understeers you need to turn into it harder and push the throttle more and the electronics will work out the traction issues and pull you through. Very counterintuitive but hey, kids ride these hoverboards everywhere and the electronics make it look like magic. My intuition tells me that if you're coming in hot trail braking and experience understeer then you're actually not on the brakes as hard as someone who isn't in understeer and therefor the type of brake is of less consideration when pulling out of understeer but if you want to consistently do this lap after lap you're going to need CC brakes and probably another set of tires
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I can appreciate this. Obviously if you want the car to hold up to the abuse to perform these maneuvers then CC is undoubtedly the way to go. I've heard something similar with driving style with this car. That when the car understeers you need to turn into it harder and push the throttle more and the electronics will work out the traction issues and pull you through. Very counterintuitive but hey, kids ride these hoverboards everywhere and the electronics make it look like magic. My intuition tells me that if you're coming in hot trail braking and experience understeer then you're actually not on the brakes as hard as someone who isn't in understeer and therefor the type of brake is of less consideration when pulling out of understeer but if you want to consistently do this lap after lap you're going to need CC brakes and probably another set of tires
For me, the most logical upgrade that they should have done was the electric motors - so I can beat the TESLA PLAID :smile::smile:
They are going electric anyway. Imagine putting JBL4 plus hi torque electric motors and push it to 1000hp hahahahaha !
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The most logical upgrade Acura should have done, is to make the three electric motor powerful -- you need to beat the Tesla Plaid :smile::smile::redface:
There will be no exotic petrol car will dare to challenge --- and....... THERE IS SOUNDS TOO !��
If Acura going electric, might as well go for the big BANG !!
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