What makes a Gen 1 NSX-R better?

[goldNSX]

I don't know how many NSX-R Honda intended to sell but in the end they only sold 140 units, at a time when the NSX-concept looked dated, so it didn't get much attention nearly 20 years ago. At least, it got tested here and there and even some morons called it too expensive for a Honda that nobody is going to pay for. It's within the last 5-10 years they all are raving all about it and prices jumped up to 10x of the original one. That's pretty rare in the supercar league.

 

[Honcho]

I'm thinking back at the western auto journalist of recent past who have raved about the NSX-R. It's old news in Japan obviously. The one you all know best is Jethro Bovington (check out his latest podcast with TheSmokingTire re the NSX-R). He's one of the few journalist I respect still. That profession has just been so watered down in the Youtube era where the dillution is taking down all the authentic reviewers down with the ship. "They" love the NSX-R but equally hate the standard NSX. Jethro in particular stated the original NSX is "vague and snappy".

I don't think these guys have ever driven a properly modded standard NSX. I wouldn't even consider mine "properly modded" but it's getting there I suppose and even then it's built with all my preferences heavily weighted in the build. The majority of the reviews I see online are from modded NSXs, with, i'm sorry to say... questionable mods, from a purely handling standpoint. I know i'm going to get a lot of hate for that. Sorry, not sorry. It will probably take some kind of a Singer company to bring respect to the standard chassis because despite how objectively good the car you and/or I built, it's rare that a respectable journalist would ever go on the limb like that and it's rare for an individual to build an NSX that cohesive and good - i.e. the balance that is the NSX-R I suppose.

I find it interesting that of all the 90's sports cars, it's the NSX that is still compared against modern supercars as a potential option. Like, you never see "looking to get a 93 3000GT, but also considering a Gallardo- what should I do?" The fact that this sentence legit happens with the original NSX even today speaks far more to the quality/importance of the car than those 90's magazine reviews that bashed it for being 'underpowered'. It's not just good, it's legendary. The older I get, the more I dislike the concept of modding the NSX too far beyond Honda's design. It seems to me that the mods generally don't stand up well over time. Stuff like JRZs or wheels to accommodate slicks or R-comps if you track are fine, but I find myself wrinkling my nose when I see heavily modded cars now. I mean, you can try to make your NSX into a 911 GT3 RS, but it goes back to my original question- is it even a NSX anymore at that point? Honda gave us the general roadmap with the R...

I kind of agree. The S2000 CR isn't on the same level, but it also didn't get a boost in power and initially I think many people were disappointed by this. Obviously worth a pretty penny now. However, I think the NSX-R would have reviewed well for the magazine racers. According to Best Motoring its about .6 secs faster the 1/4 mile compared to a regular JDM NSX. In the early 90's that's a pretty significant difference. Then of course it had the shorter gearing (JDM+4.23FD) vs the US model.

I don't know, I think they would have blown past the improvements and complained about it still having "only" 276 hp.

 

[RYU]

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] I mentioned this to a couple of friends lately. Back in 2015 when I first drove a McLaren 650S at the track was when I realized the pursuit I was chasing with the NSX was absolutely 110% futile. The Mac ruined me.

Ever since then, I've considered selling the NSX and in the meantime have dumb'd it down to refocus the car towards the driving experience vs all out speed. All the while and for the first time, started looking at the merits of a NSX-R/Type S more seriously. Having recently gone NA......... boy..I've never been happier with her..... Hold on... Perhaps that's not fair... I've been happy with this car at varying degrees throughout the years, but I've never been more connected with my NSX than I have in it's current state.

So having never driven an NSX-R in anger, i'm still trying to figure what this particular magic seems to be and if my car is the same or better or worse than it. The thought is like an itch I can't scratch!

 

[Honcho]

I mentioned this to a couple of friends lately. Back in 2015 when I first drove a McLaren 650S at the track was when I realized the pursuit I was chasing with the NSX was absolutely 110% futile. The Mac ruined me.

My GT-R did this for me. Whether it's a 650S or a R35, the culmination of the horsepower wars that started in the 90's means the pursuit of raw speed today is kind of pointless. All of the cars are so fast now that the manufacturers need to add computers to keep us from crashing and killing ourselves. Even though I had almost 700 hp on tap, AWD and could turn PB's on almost every lap in the Nissan, I yearned for the NSX driver connection. It's not about speed anymore for me.

Ever since then, I've considered selling the NSX and in the meantime have dumb'd it down to refocus the car towards the driving experience vs all out speed.

Dumbed down or smartened up?

All the while and for the first time, started looking at the merits of a NSX-R/Type S more seriously. Having recently gone NA......... boy..I've never been happier with her..... Hold on... Perhaps that's not fair... I've been happy with this car at varying degrees throughout the years, but I've never been more connected with my NSX than I have in it's current state.

I got this religion right before I bought my 92 after deep contemplation about what I wanted. If raw speed isn't the point anymore, then what is the point? I think your OP title in this thread is the real point, and it was my epiphany too. What is the essence of NSX? Why is it special? I think we can all agree the original platform was a bit "soft/numb" in an attempt to market the car as a viable GT for the European elite. Honda apparently thought so too, which is why we have the R and S. I chose the S Zero mostly for aesthetic purposes, but the concept is the same- distill the car down to its essence in the hope that you can derive joy from it. I'm only really adding the CT cams because I want to make up for the lost power at altitude, i.e., I want it to feel like it would at sea level. But, if you pinned me down and said how does one best experience NSX? I would answer "build a Gen 1 R as close as possible to the spec." Or, if you live in England or Japan, "buy a Gen 1 R and send it to the refresh center." I think the NA2 R was getting close to Honda chasing raw speed versus the essence of the car. Still, it's quite a machine. My personal feeling is that the Gen 1 R is closer to the spirit of the original project. Still, even if you can find a shell, you're talking at least $50 - $75k to get it close. In the grand scheme, that's not too much compared to any modern car.

So having never driven an NSX-R in anger, i'm still trying to figure what this particular magic seems to be and if my car is the same or better or worse than it. The thought is like an itch I can't scratch!

Your car is worse. All of ours are. I just want to get as close as I can with a LHD. Looks like it's time for you to start a Gen 1 R build thread.

 

[MITA Motorsports]

Were the wheels really lighter? I weighed both brand new from the factory and they came up to be the same?
Two part numbers though. One is to have the NSX-R decal and the other is just standard.

02 NSX-R had 3 wheel color options.
BMW Silver
Grey Metallic
Championship White

All 3 have the NSX-R logo on them. Standard 02 wheel had 4 choices:
3 mentioned above, and Quantum Grey Metallic. You can find some photos on Facebook

1st gen NA1-R had 1:
Enkeis' Neutron White Pearl

2nd gen NA1-R had 1 as well:
Championship White.
*Note, the reason why the center caps do not fit regular 7 spoke wheels, is because the caps were made different. In fact, this is the only one that the wheel was made completely different only because of the caps (and yes, 02 and Type S caps will fit these).

-----

Also, what makes them special, well it's an R. And resale value.
Everyone knows they're special. But Type S Zero on the other hand is probably even more special.

 

[MITA Motorsports]

Honestly, from the moment you sit in one and drive it, you will understand the difference immediately.
Gears, clutch pedal action, shift throw, seats, lowered suspension, no radio and AC, no power windows, overall nicer interior (imo; this is subjective).
There are much more things, like rubber coating around the engine bay (since it is different), but overall it's the same.

There are lots of fairytale stuff out there that create myths about the nsx-r, but its very typical Honda. It's the same principle they carried through all their type Rs in those generations.
Don't think too much into it

 

[MotorMouth93]

Does anyone know of any photos of an NA1 R chassis with body panels removed? I want to know how they transitioned from the white chassis into the black engine bay and roof. For...reasons

 

[MrHugo]

Like some of you have mentioned, the essence of the NSX experience can be ruined with crazy mods (not saying its bad), while some changes even if its minor, can enhance the NSX experience greatly. I believe the nsx is a great platform and the NSX R/S parts and some aftermarket parts can really enhance the experience without destroying the intent. R steering, S knob, R tranny, Jun fly, weight reduction, JRZs, NA2 brakes are some of my favorite mods. I am getting super exciting just anticipating the install of my radio delete plate this weekend (still have a BT module to the speakers).

 

[NZNick]

no power windows ]/QUOTE]

Really?

i think you mean no power / central door locking.

 

[MITA Motorsports]

no power windows ]/QUOTE]

Really?

i think you mean no power / central door locking.

Yeah sorry, the auto door lock. Power doors?

Sent from my SM-G9980 using Tapatalk

 

[Sonic_k20]

There are also lots of "little things" beyond the commonly-listed changes that don't make it into the press releases.

Gen 1 NSX-R

• Many of the wire harnesses are different (i.e., lighter) because the car doesn't have power locks, audio, etc.
• Several of the harness plugs in the engine by are shielded against heat.
• The front brake dust shields are ventilated.
• The muffler is different (internally).
• The clutch pedal has a different geometry and engagement point.
• The left quarter panel is different (deletes the antenna hole).
• The rear spoiler is lighter due to thinner material and a different internal construction
• The engine is indeed balanced. First, piston/rod assemblies are weighed individually and matched to a very tight tolerance. Next, the entire rotating assembly (including clutch) is dynamically balanced. This results in a highly responsive engine.
• The ECU map is different. Timing is advanced in many spots (for use with JDM high-test gasoline).
• The tire compound is different for all available brands (Dunlop, Yokohama and Bridgestone).
• Alignment settings are different.
• Front and rear motor mounts use higher duometer rubber.
• Different left mounting bracket for the upper bulkhead trim (due to no TCS computer).
• Circuit-spec brake pads.
• A/C ducts have special shields.
• Rear chassis bar is thinner and lighter.

I'm probably missing a few things. Also, the heads were allegedly ported and polished by hand (along with the Integra Type-R's heads) in the engine assembly area at Tochigi. Another unconfirmed change is the throttle body does not have the TCS stepper motor.

You can do all of this to your US-spec NSX coupe, except for the wire harnesses. On my car, I went with CF side scoops and B-pillars to offset this weight difference.

Is there such a list also for the 97-01 NSX Type S. I am amazed at how much knowledge is gathered here. I am completely reacquainting myself with my NSX after 3 years and am glad for any information.