They're all the same crap. Just buy whatever is on sale at Wal-Mart.
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What's the BEST wax
- Thread starter SPTNSX
- Start date
The more I read your response Mutt, the more I hope you as a detail shop owner/operator?? Again are really misunderstanding what I said.
Any black paint is hard to do right NOT just the Berlina Black, every paint manufacturer has a different style clear, that re acts differently not only when you spray it but polish it.
You said if " I thought the nature of a pure wax was to hide or mask defects" Again, re read I was referring to if a car was polished in correctly and someone uses a wax with a orbitor or by applied by hand after a sub par polish job.. DO I PERSONALLY THINK A SEALANT IS BY FAR A SUPERIOR PRODUCT TO A PURE WAX? YES I DO!!!! HANDS DOWN!!!!
Will someone harm their paint by applying a wax on a normal basis NOPE!! Will it benefit them? YES!!!!! LOOK UP TO MY PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!
Now you were partly correct when you said the pores in your expand and contract while being polished " actually you said wax" but yes the heat generated will cause this.. On a hot or cold day your paint will expand and contract. Again what I was saying is if you don't keep your pores/paint clean and in good condition the paint and mainly the clear WILL BECOME BRITTLE.. PERIOD.... regardless of what your saying.. If a car hasn't been maintained properly ( paint ) if you rub the back of your fingers ( not palm side ) on that paint it will not only feel a little rough but you will probably be able to hear your fingers rubbing on the paint. Now again if you rub the back of your fingers on a well maintained paint job or properly sealed or just for you waxed it is like glass and you won't hear a thing. I call this the towel test, take a rag, micro fibre, whatever and toss it across the hood of the non maintained paint it will catch and not slide across the hood. Do the same toss on properly maintained paint it will glide across easily. Your paint becomes DRY and BRITTLE can proper care from washing to polishing to final wax/sealant help fix this yes. Thats all I was getting at..
Do a search for batmans ziano swirl mark thread.. I cant copy and paste it..
PICTURE # 1 has a black Buick with what I CALL SWIRL MARKS this is what I was explaining about a wax being misused to cover and mask bad polish work..
PICTURE # 13 has a blue Carrera with what I CALL SPIDER WEB SCRATCHES these are from normal wear and tear like washing etc etc etc and a lot easier for repair...
I guess they were right, " you can't teach "
I think the best advice is if you really want a great look for your paint, you should follow the following steps:
Thorough wash to remove all dirt and old wax. I find Dawn does a great job.
Clay bar to clean paint then rinse again
Polish car using polish appropriate for level of swirls/marks. I like Menzerna products. I use their PO87 Micro Polish, which does a good job of removing light swirls and polishes to a high gloss. For heavier swirls and scratches, I use PO83 Intensive Polish followed up by PO87.
Paint Sealant. I like JetSeal 109. I do 2 coats and give it 24 hours to cure.
Top Wax. I use Chemical Guys 5050 paste wax.
If you follow these steps, substituting your favorite products, you will have great results.
Thorough wash to remove all dirt and old wax. I find Dawn does a great job.
Clay bar to clean paint then rinse again
Polish car using polish appropriate for level of swirls/marks. I like Menzerna products. I use their PO87 Micro Polish, which does a good job of removing light swirls and polishes to a high gloss. For heavier swirls and scratches, I use PO83 Intensive Polish followed up by PO87.
Paint Sealant. I like JetSeal 109. I do 2 coats and give it 24 hours to cure.
Top Wax. I use Chemical Guys 5050 paste wax.
If you follow these steps, substituting your favorite products, you will have great results.
Swissvax
Try Wolfgang those product is amazing.Did a three step buffing process today and let me tell you the car is like a glass mirror super shine :wink: you get what you paid!
Wolfgang
Step 1.Compound/Swirls Remover
Step 2.Finishing Glaze
Step 3.Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
Wolfgang
Step 1.Compound/Swirls Remover
Step 2.Finishing Glaze
Step 3.Deep Gloss Paint Sealant
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"Sleek"
There's so much misinformation in your postings, that I'm not quite sure where to start.
I suppose I'll start with Mr. Ketcham's remarks on the ability of clear-coat to hold water:
On the microscopic level, some things can penetrate into clear-coat. This is nothing new, and has multiple sources from Ron Ketcham to Dr. G from Optimum who did research with Mitsubishi showing the ability of paint and substrates to absorb UV ray inhibitors.
The key to what these gentlemen are talking about comes down to actual molecular size, which you're using without context. Some things can penetrate DOES NOT mean all things can.
To go on further, what evidence do you have on actual "brittleness" in clear-coat? Please make sure your source is actually talking about brittleness and not toughness, hardness, or other engineering terms that all describe different phenomena.
You can enjoy and prefer sealants all you want, but I certainly admire the better ability to resist etching damage that waxes give, even if they lack some of the long term durability of a sealant. One way or another I'm sure we both agree protected paint is always better than unprotected paint.
Rough feeling has little to do with any "brittleness" and more to do with contamination on and in the surface of the clear-coat.
Lastly, I'd highly recommend you never quote that ultra biased and misleading Zaino thread EVER if you want real detailers to take you seriously.
There's so much misinformation in your postings, that I'm not quite sure where to start.
I suppose I'll start with Mr. Ketcham's remarks on the ability of clear-coat to hold water:
On the microscopic level, some things can penetrate into clear-coat. This is nothing new, and has multiple sources from Ron Ketcham to Dr. G from Optimum who did research with Mitsubishi showing the ability of paint and substrates to absorb UV ray inhibitors.
The key to what these gentlemen are talking about comes down to actual molecular size, which you're using without context. Some things can penetrate DOES NOT mean all things can.
To go on further, what evidence do you have on actual "brittleness" in clear-coat? Please make sure your source is actually talking about brittleness and not toughness, hardness, or other engineering terms that all describe different phenomena.
You can enjoy and prefer sealants all you want, but I certainly admire the better ability to resist etching damage that waxes give, even if they lack some of the long term durability of a sealant. One way or another I'm sure we both agree protected paint is always better than unprotected paint.
Rough feeling has little to do with any "brittleness" and more to do with contamination on and in the surface of the clear-coat.
Lastly, I'd highly recommend you never quote that ultra biased and misleading Zaino thread EVER if you want real detailers to take you seriously.
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Man,,,,,,, Mutt,,,,,,,
you know this is getting tiring with you, there is not any misinformation in my postings.. NONE... If you want to term certain things I said in your own words and say what I'm saying is wrong, we aren't gonna get anywhere to help these owners.. Tomato, Tumato...
If you are gonna say only some contaminants can penetrate and or damage paint or clear, your wrong... When I say brittle it's pertaining to un protected paint and is more apt to contaminants and damage.. PERIOD!!!!! If you want to choose another word other then brittle to describe it knock yourself out...
On your wax preference I wont knock it, like I said before personal preference... Not all owners are able to wax their paint, on more of a regular basis which is what needs to be done compared to a sealant. THIS is why I recommend a non professional to use a sealant..
Again you are taking what I said out of context or AGAIN misunderstanding!!! The Zaino thread was for the pictures referring to what a real swirl mark is ( Buick ) picture, and what are spider web type scratches, caused from common normal washing etc type damage in (Carrera ) picture. I'm not sure what part of me posting the Zaino thread is misleading. You didn't see me endorse Zaino products if thats what your implying in the last statement of your post.. Is that another misunderstanding on your part?
I welcome you to come to the NSXPO in Sept of this year in Denver. I will have my work on showcase on my NSX and a few others NSX' that will be here for the NSXPO.
Bottom line Mutt, my track record is proven in this industry. You may not agree with the words I use to describe something and your opinion is welcomed. Problem is when you open your mouth and start talkin trash about about my knowledge that you have no clue about. Prove to me or anyone else what I've said is wrong.. Don't go by some of the words you disagree with, show proof before you keep trying to discount my knowledge. I would even open up my shop to you to showcase your work which not once have I discounted. I'm just getting tired of your negativity and effort to discount what I've said.. This thread is to help or share info not for you or I to banter back and forth. There isn't anything I have said in any posts will harm an owners paint. PERIOD!!!!
Using incorrect terminology to describe the effects of what happens to automotive paint is misleading, especially if you do truly understand the importance. If this was a simple difference in how a word is pronounced, I'd have no problem with it. The problem is when you use your opinion as fact, yet have no evidence of what you're talking about.
Until you can prove paint becoming brittle, I will continue to call you out on it. Period.
I don't know the extent of the work you do, and you could be a truly top-notch guy doing quality work leaving many many owners more than satisfied with their pretty cars.
I'm not judging your work, I'm judging your knowledge and ability to describe your work and the importance of what you do. To unintentionally mislead people is one thing, but to continue using incorrect terminology is plain wrong.
Until you can prove paint becoming brittle, I will continue to call you out on it. Period.
I don't know the extent of the work you do, and you could be a truly top-notch guy doing quality work leaving many many owners more than satisfied with their pretty cars.
I'm not judging your work, I'm judging your knowledge and ability to describe your work and the importance of what you do. To unintentionally mislead people is one thing, but to continue using incorrect terminology is plain wrong.
Swirls come from polishing unless someone is literally scrubbing the surface. My proven swirless combination(when i do my part) on a flattened berlina is 3m perfect it foam polising pad glaze dark on their waffle pad followed by a high emolient wax. The sleeper IMO is Zymol titanium. Zymol waxes really feed/shine and the titanium stuff IS durable. Although P21S is OK and i'm going to try the Pinacle soveregn(sp). I just bought a flex 3401 DA and am hoping to find a da system that will equal the perfect with rotary. 3m;s products do not work with da's. Been spending a lot of time on the detailing forums, we X guys argue too damn much around here. Detailing is an ongoing practice, no one has the answers. Been doing it for 45 years, as a hobby thank god. It's tough work when the paint gets thin.
'Best' depends on which variable you're looking for.
My current favorite doesn't produce the best shine, but it does go on the easiest of any wax I've ever used(BY FAR), it seems to last well, it doesn't hurt plastic parts(no white residue), and you can apply it to a black car in direct sun which is amazing.
This is what I consider a daily driver wax. It's for people who wax their car more than a few times a year.
If my car was a garage queen, I would go back to a 3 step, 8 hour process.
Turtle Wax - ICE
My current favorite doesn't produce the best shine, but it does go on the easiest of any wax I've ever used(BY FAR), it seems to last well, it doesn't hurt plastic parts(no white residue), and you can apply it to a black car in direct sun which is amazing.
This is what I consider a daily driver wax. It's for people who wax their car more than a few times a year.
If my car was a garage queen, I would go back to a 3 step, 8 hour process.
Turtle Wax - ICE
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Funny U mentioned Wal-Mart.
I picked up the new Turtle ICE that is a blend of wax and synthetic polish.
I'm using it on my gloss black wheels and clear bra on my GTO for testing while the rest of the GTO has Zaino Z2 with a Z8 wipe down. It really does seem to attract less dust as advertised.
All I can say is that the Turtle ICE is VERY shiny to the point where I consider it VERY close to Zaino and that it's the best "mass-consumer" wax/polish that I have used. Megiuars NXT was the best but it was bumped down since it comes off after one wash. The funny thing is that NXT and ICE smells very much alike.
All of them are easy to apply and wipe off with no white residue like Zaino.
'Best' depends on which variable you're looking for.
My current favorite doesn't produce the best shine, but it does go on the easiest of any wax I've ever used(BY FAR), it seems to last well, it doesn't hurt plastic parts(no white residue), and you can apply it to a black car in direct sun which is amazing.
This is what I consider a daily driver wax. It's for people who wax their car more than a few times a year.
If my car was a garage queen, I would go back to a 3 step, 8 hour process.
Turtle Wax - ICE
U should try the new formula.
It's better. I tried this one for the truck.
http://www.turtlewax.com/ice/#
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I agree.
Turtle Wax Ice. Tytus turned me onto it about 2 years ago and I've used it since.
It is so fast and easy to use. You can do a NSX in 15 -20 minutes or less.
It's really is great on black cars. It looked so good on my black S2000, that I started using it on all my cars and tossed the others out after I realized I wasn't using them. Who would have thought Turtle Was, an old school company like them, would make such a fine, modern product.
The days of spending hour after hour on your car are gone. You just don't need to do it anymore to get awesome results. This new wax technology is incredible and improving all the time.
Turtle Wax Ice too seems to have changed it's formula over the past couple of years and it keeps getting better with each successive generation of product.
Inexpensive, Fast. Lustrous. It's the best value and performer I've found to date especially at this price point.
I love it.
Turtle Wax Ice. Tytus turned me onto it about 2 years ago and I've used it since.
It is so fast and easy to use. You can do a NSX in 15 -20 minutes or less.
It's really is great on black cars. It looked so good on my black S2000, that I started using it on all my cars and tossed the others out after I realized I wasn't using them. Who would have thought Turtle Was, an old school company like them, would make such a fine, modern product.
The days of spending hour after hour on your car are gone. You just don't need to do it anymore to get awesome results. This new wax technology is incredible and improving all the time.
Turtle Wax Ice too seems to have changed it's formula over the past couple of years and it keeps getting better with each successive generation of product.
Inexpensive, Fast. Lustrous. It's the best value and performer I've found to date especially at this price point.
I love it.
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Optimum Spray Wax.
turtle wax has both a spray wax and a spray detailer version.
I'm still testing the new Turtle Wax ICE on the truck.
It does a better job at keeping the paint surface clean. Even the my wheels don't see as much brake dust on it.
The waxed surface is still sleek to the touch (but not as sleek as Zaino) after 4 washes with no reapplication between washes.
The shine is VERY good for a mass consumer wax. Meguiars has a new polymer wax that is suppose to be as shiny if not shinier than Turtle wax Ice.
But if you want the shine Zaino is still superior. It really makes the surface look like its wet.
It does a better job at keeping the paint surface clean. Even the my wheels don't see as much brake dust on it.
The waxed surface is still sleek to the touch (but not as sleek as Zaino) after 4 washes with no reapplication between washes.
The shine is VERY good for a mass consumer wax. Meguiars has a new polymer wax that is suppose to be as shiny if not shinier than Turtle wax Ice.
But if you want the shine Zaino is still superior. It really makes the surface look like its wet.
oldie but v2.0 is a goodie 'Moonshine Speed Wax'
http://shop.beautyshine.com/Moonshine-Liquid-Carnauba-Speed-Wax-570.htm
I work with a number of film car prep companies who use this stuff to prep all our shoot vehicles. Goes on easy, comes off easy w/o any powder. it's my new goto
http://shop.beautyshine.com/Moonshine-Liquid-Carnauba-Speed-Wax-570.htm
I work with a number of film car prep companies who use this stuff to prep all our shoot vehicles. Goes on easy, comes off easy w/o any powder. it's my new goto
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- 29 November 2011
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Due to the insane price, this must be the best?
http://www.chemicalguys.com/CAR_WAX_PASTE_PROJECT_J97_ULTIMATE_WAX_p/n_002.htm
http://www.chemicalguys.com/CAR_WAX_PASTE_PROJECT_J97_ULTIMATE_WAX_p/n_002.htm
Ok so I got the Turtle Wax Ice in Synthetic Paste Polish form and applied by hand.....I have to say the finish/shine is great but it was VERY difficult to remove with multiple microfiber towels and it took ALOT of elbow grease to work off......
Just an FYI....maybe I got the old formula or should have gotten the liquid but I wanted to share my experience. I bet the liquid wax works better....
I will repost with an update on durability after some time.
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I rest my case.
Glad you found a product that you like without being conned into spending a small fortune on a bullshit "snake oil" wax.
zaino is still shinier.
try using their wax or detailer spray to help wipe off the excess wax.
pics of the bottle?
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