When to replace clutch?

[nsxtacey]

I can't feel the clutch catching in first gear anymore but the car doesn't stall or acts like its going to stall. Theres no slipping at all, it still catches hard in all the other gears. Its a na2 clutch. I ordered all the parts anyway, costs 2300

Flywheel (22100-PR7-006) 1649.79
Pressure Disk (22300-PR7-025) 294.99
Friction Disk (22200-PR7-005) 214.97
Throw Out Bearing (22810-PR8-003) 131.30

Anything else I'm missing?

 

[sahtt]

How did you diagnose it was the clutch? What you just described does not even suggest the clutch as your issue.

You are playing an expensive guessing game.

 

[annointed]

I'd also question why you think you need a new flywheel. I've always resurfaced my flywheels at a local machine shop, except for a WRX that I opted to put a lightweight flywheel into.

Given how expensive a flywheel is, I'd rather pay $40 to a machine shop to resurface the original than $1600+ for a new stock flywheel.

Also, when you say the car doesn't seem to "catch" in 1st, you must mean that you believe it is slipping in that gear. Usually the best way to test whether a clutch is slipping is to go WOT in your highest gear while crusing at 30-40 mph, or to gas it in top gear while going uphill. However, don't go too crazy with this test, as you don't want load-induced detonation from being WOT while the engine is lugging. If your clutch doesn't slip under these conditions, than your clutch should be fine for the time being.

 

[nsxtacey]

I tested it on a steep hill in a parking lot, it would not catch at all and i rolled backwards
What else could it be other than the clutch?

 

[NSXGMS]

I tested it on a steep hill in a parking lot, it would not catch at all and i rolled backwards
What else could it be other than the clutch?

If it's not slipping in the other gears it might not be your clutch. I'm not sure I'd buy the whole kit before having the problem professionally diagnosed...

Also, is that the correct price for the OEM flywheel? Many excellent aftermarket options for 1/3 the price of that...

 

[RPM217]

I can't feel the clutch catching in first gear anymore but the car doesn't stall or acts like its going to stall. Theres no slipping at all, it still catches hard in all the other gears. Its a na2 clutch. I ordered all the parts anyway, costs 2300

Flywheel (22100-PR7-006) 1649.79
Pressure Disk (22300-PR7-025) 294.99
Friction Disk (22200-PR7-005) 214.97
Throw Out Bearing (22810-PR8-003) 131.30

Anything else I'm missing?

Yeah, an appointment with Larry B!!!

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I can't feel the clutch catching in first gear anymore but the car doesn't stall or acts like its going to stall. Theres no slipping at all, it still catches hard in all the other gears.

This explanation is not clear to me.

If the clutch does not slip you do not need a clutch.

Get on a hill going up, get in third gear at 2000 rpm and floor it. If the clutch not slip under those conditions, do not waste your money on a clutch.

What does "catching" mean?

Also, check you clutch fluid reservoir and report back about the fluid level.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[nsxtacey]

This explanation is not clear to me.

If the clutch does not slip you do not need a clutch.

Get on a hill going up, get in third gear at 2000 rpm and floor it. If the clutch not slip under those conditions, do not waste your money on a clutch.

What does "catching" mean?

Also, check you clutch fluid reservoir and report back about the fluid level.

Regards,
LarryB

HI Larry, I do not feel the clutch engaging in first gear. I let it out slow and the car just starts moving but I can let it out all the way and not feel it engage like I use to. Gears do not slip at all but I read on here that if does start to slip that means its pretty much at the end of the clutch life and get to a shop asap.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

HI Larry, I do not feel the clutch engaging in first gear. I let it out slow and the car just starts moving but I can let it out all the way and not feel it engage like I use to. Gears do not slip at all but I read on here that if does start to slip that means its pretty much at the end of the clutch life and get to a shop asap.

Sounds like the engagment point is higher up. As far as releasing the clutch slowly, your killing your clutch.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6679&highlight=hard+downshifting

In the words of Mark Basch.

From all the NSX clutches I have replaced, I can tell you that the average is around 45 to 50k. I have seem some go at 10K (several actually) and a few last over 100. This has already been stated here. What I wanted to add, is the simple way I teach my customers to get max life, if you can just remember one thing - the clutch only wears while the pedal is moving. The faster you get the clutch pedal off the floor and to 'rest' position, the less life you have used up. If you slide the pedal nice and easy, with plenty of matching throttle movement also nice and easy, you are EATING your clutch. Many people think that if the car moves away from a stop so nice and easy that you could hold a full glass of wine, this is a good thing. This is the worst thing. If the car jerks slightly because you moved the car away from a start nice and quick, this is as close to zero wear as it gets. The majority of clutch wear occurs when moving the car from a stop, so practice this most.


As Larry mentioned if its not slipping it should be fine. When it does go, take it to Larry for all your needs.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

HI Larry, I do not feel the clutch engaging in first gear. I let it out slow and the car just starts moving but I can let it out all the way and not feel it engage like I use to. Gears do not slip at all but I read on here that if does start to slip that means its pretty much at the end of the clutch life and get to a shop asap.

OK, it does sound like it is getting thin.

If I can interpret what you are saying:

When you release the clutch it grabs. As soon as it grabs, you foot is off the pedal and the car goes. You no longer feel the "thickness" of the clutch disk anymore. Does this description make sense?

If so, you probably have about 5-7K miles left on it, if you are not abusive.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Bigglezworth]

If you have the shifter in first gear, let out the clutch pedal - and go nowhere - there are two reasons for this problem. The first being presumed is that your clutch is gone. Based upon your descriptions and that you have grab in all other gears, this would suggest your clutch is not the problem. Again, the car should stall out the further you release the pedal - in any gear.

If you can perform a full release of the pedal only in first gear, then I would suggest your problem is that of first gear not engaging. This can be for a number of reasons (i.e. shifter linkage, syncromesh, gears themselves, etc.).

Tim

 

[nsxtacey]

OK, it does sound like it is getting thin.

If I can interpret what you are saying:

When you release the clutch it grabs. As soon as it grabs, you foot is off the pedal and the car goes. You no longer feel the "thickness" of the clutch disk anymore. Does this description make sense?

If so, you probably have about 5-7K miles left on it, if you are not abusive.

Regards,
LarryB

I just tested it in 3rd on a hill at 2k rpm and it was fine. I do notice in first as I let the clutch out at the point when the car starts to move it also starts to want to stall. so this means I have less thickness left?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I just tested it in 3rd on a hill at 2k rpm and it was fine. I do notice in first as I let the clutch out at the point when the car starts to move it also starts to want to stall. so this means I have less thickness left?

No, actually it means you have more!!!!!

Sounds like you really do not need a clutch at all, again, check your fluid level, LMK.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[nsxtacey]

OK, it does sound like it is getting thin.

If I can interpret what you are saying:

When you release the clutch it grabs. As soon as it grabs, you foot is off the pedal and the car goes. You no longer feel the "thickness" of the clutch disk anymore. Does this description make sense?

If so, you probably have about 5-7K miles left on it, if you are not abusive.

Regards,
LarryB

I just tested it in 3rd on a hill at 2k rpm and it was fine. I do notice in first as I let the clutch out at the point when the car starts to move it also starts to want to stall. so this means I have less thickness left?

 

[Bigglezworth]

I just tested it in 3rd on a hill at 2k rpm and it was fine. I do notice in first as I let the clutch out at the point when the car starts to move it also starts to want to stall. so this means I have less thickness left?

This isn't what you stated in the first part of this thread. Either the clutch doesn't catch at all in first or it does (even partially). Critical to a proper diagnosis of which part is failing..... No engine stall = tranny. Any sort of stall regardless of speed/RPM = clutch. Clutch = friction disc, slave cylinder, release fork, or hydraulic fluid. It will NOT = expensive pressure plate......

 

[KSXNSX]

HI Larry, I do not feel the clutch engaging in first gear. I let it out slow and the car just starts moving but I can let it out all the way and not feel it engage like I use to. Gears do not slip at all but I read on here that if does start to slip that means its pretty much at the end of the clutch life and get to a shop asap.

If no gears are slipping, then why replace the clutch?

It seems like you are just saying you can't feel the clutch engage when you let the clutch out slowly.

That is normal.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

What nsxtacey is saying is previously he could feel the clutch engage, and now that feel seems to be vague. This is typical of the thinning disk. However he has no slippage at all, which was why I orignally was thinking it is getting thin, I see this regularely. It is probably good for this season, depending on how it is driven.

When the clutch gets vague as to when it grabs, the disks are about used up. I can drive an NSX and tell immedaitely it the clutch is worn-out.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Bigglezworth]

I can drive an NSX and tell immedaitely it the clutch is worn-out.

Me too. It's even easier to look through the inspection hole and confirm what remains on the disk.:biggrin:

 

[nsxtacey]

Got the parts in today, had no idea its so heavy

Is the NSX-R the same clutch or a lightweight?

 

[NSXGMS]

Got the parts in today, had no idea its so heavy

Is the NSX-R the same clutch or a lightweight?

Same clutch for the NSX-R.

Were you able to get this problem professionally diagnosed? Have you confirmed that it is a new clutch kit that's needed?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Same clutch for the NSX-R.

mmm.... Don't think so. NSX-R uses a Dual-Plate clutch, which is why you can get the NSX-R mainshaft for the 6 speed.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[NSXGMS]

mmm.... Don't think so. NSX-R uses a Dual-Plate clutch, which is why you can get the NSX-R mainshaft for the 6 speed.

Regards,
LarryB

You are correct, it is a dual-plate. :wink:

 

[camber_combover]

I wonder if Mark tells his customers to save brake pads and to slam on max brake pedal and just slide up to a stop light as well. Tires are easier to replace anyway right?

clutches are meant to wear slightly with each takeoff/change. there is a balance between "jerks"-type driving and burning up the clutch. When a "jerk" drives my ride it irritates me, to be honest. Feels like a 15 year old girl learning how to drive while she puts all the various things happening in the vehicle together in her head for the first time.

If someone needs to make a clutch last 50-100K, due to lack of budget, maybe they need an automatic yugo to save overall costs.

 

[NSXGMS]

I wonder if Mark tells his customers to save brake pads and to slam on max brake pedal and just slide up to a stop light as well. Tires are easier to replace anyway right?

Who's Mark?

clutches are meant to wear slightly with each takeoff/change. there is a balance between "jerks"-type driving and burning up the clutch...If someone needs to make a clutch last 50-100K, due to lack of budget, maybe they need an automatic yugo to save overall costs.

The point being made by Larry was that the less smooth the clutch engagement is, the less it slips and therefore the less it wears. Obviously it's not very comfortable to dump the clutch on every shift so of course there's some slipping and therefore wearing inevitably involved.

True, the clutch is a "wear part" but it's the most expensive "wear part" on the car to replace and just a minor modification in driving style can easily save an owner at least one full clutch replacement over the lifetime of the car, which is significant IMO. There's no reason to be wasteful or spend more money than one has to to keep their car running.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Who's Mark?.

Guessing Mark Johson from dolyracing or MB.

Mark Basch and Larry Bastanza stated it well, good principle to follow to make your clutch last. Though the NSX OEM clutch is not the greatest clutch to keep beating on if you want Longevity.