Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
Quite interesting... a sorta who-owns-who!
Who-owns-who... automotive globalization!
- Thread starter Osiris_x11
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Wow, who'd a thought VW owns all that.
Very interesting chart, thanks for sharing that with us. I wonder how outdated it is, AM is still shown as being owned by Ford if I'm not mistaken.
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
still on par...
I believe it is very accurate as it shows Jaguar/Range_Rover ownership being transferred to TATA, which is a very recent event.
Also, the Aston Martin majority ownership shown appears to be of the Prodrive-led consortium. Ford had retained ~10% ownership in an agreement to supply future parts (ie. engine/mechanicals) during the sale of Aston Martin.
I was curious about the charts relevancy as well, in terms of how up to date it may be.
I believe it is very accurate as it shows Jaguar/Range_Rover ownership being transferred to TATA, which is a very recent event.
Also, the Aston Martin majority ownership shown appears to be of the Prodrive-led consortium. Ford had retained ~10% ownership in an agreement to supply future parts (ie. engine/mechanicals) during the sale of Aston Martin.
I always thought Porsche was independent. If anything owned part of VW
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
Carreranugen...
You are correct; Porsche has acquired 'majority' share in Volkswagen over the past few years.
Tufte's brain just blew its buffer!!!
Osiris_x11 is a sharp guy. Obviously he gets it, so maybe I'm just slow...
... but I think the Visio n00b who designed that diagram must have flunked out of Remedial Information Design 050!
I got the worst headache after trying to decipher the spaghetti routing on the dotted lines and get an overall gist ownership when the red lines don't make it obvious which is the owner.
This one is a bit out-of-date and omits several players, but I find it a little easier on the old neurons.
Osiris_x11 is a sharp guy. Obviously he gets it, so maybe I'm just slow...
... but I think the Visio n00b who designed that diagram must have flunked out of Remedial Information Design 050!
I got the worst headache after trying to decipher the spaghetti routing on the dotted lines and get an overall gist ownership when the red lines don't make it obvious which is the owner. This one is a bit out-of-date and omits several players, but I find it a little easier on the old neurons.
I thought Audi owned Lamborghini, but according to the diagrams VW owns lamborghini?
Osiris_x11
Gold Member, Moderator: Marketplace
Quattroghini...
Oh man, bro' you aren't that slow! Nor am I that sharp!
The diagram I attached def' could use some added notation or such when it comes to which entity actually owns the other - as in cases where it may be the other way around!
The diagram you linked reminds me of the London "Tube" map, sans' "mind the gap"...
These diagrams remind me of the illustrations trying to explain European royalty and all the inter-marriages/relationships!
Osiris_x11 is a sharp guy. Obviously he gets it, so maybe I'm just slow...
... but I think the Visio n00b who designed that diagram must have flunked out of Remedial Information Design 050!
This one is a bit out-of-date and omits several players, but I find it a little easier on the old neurons.
Oh man, bro' you aren't that slow! Nor am I that sharp!
The diagram I attached def' could use some added notation or such when it comes to which entity actually owns the other - as in cases where it may be the other way around!
The diagram you linked reminds me of the London "Tube" map, sans' "mind the gap"...
The second diagram illustrates what you presumed, whereas the former diagram simply shows VW as the owner of Lambo' (perhaps because by default, it owns Audi).
These diagrams remind me of the illustrations trying to explain European royalty and all the inter-marriages/relationships!
Couple of interesting points:
1. Honda/Acura are independent with very little technology sharing.
2. Toyota is independent and not dependent on anybody.
3. Subaru makes pretty good cars but are partially owned by Toyota which is a good thing IMHO.
4. Where is Mitsu?
P.S. I am still trying to sort out the 2 pics.:redface:
1. Honda/Acura are independent with very little technology sharing.
2. Toyota is independent and not dependent on anybody.
3. Subaru makes pretty good cars but are partially owned by Toyota which is a good thing IMHO.
4. Where is Mitsu?
P.S. I am still trying to sort out the 2 pics.:redface:
it kinda gets interesting with recent transactions:
- Ford sells PAG units (Jaguar, Land Rover - both British marques) to Tata Motors (Indian marque)
- Cerberus (owner of Chrysler) - has outsourced IT of Chrysler to Tata Consulting (sibling of Tata Motors) and CSC. This includes vehicle engineering specs that share chassis and certain powertrain elements with Daimler/Mercedes
- Tata Motors recently announced/launched the Nano (the 1 lakh (INR 100K or ~ USD 2500) rolling pop-can car
Product development options just got more interesting
disclaimer: am working in industry, and know that several of the linkages, especially with the US Big 3, are not accurate.
###########
The Toyota-Subaru linkage is also kinda interesting... one knows how to make reliable bulletproof, albeit boring soul-less rides; the other knows how to create specialty 'cult' cars like the Impreza WRC/etc. The potential synergies can be considerable.
- Ford sells PAG units (Jaguar, Land Rover - both British marques) to Tata Motors (Indian marque)
- Cerberus (owner of Chrysler) - has outsourced IT of Chrysler to Tata Consulting (sibling of Tata Motors) and CSC. This includes vehicle engineering specs that share chassis and certain powertrain elements with Daimler/Mercedes
- Tata Motors recently announced/launched the Nano (the 1 lakh (INR 100K or ~ USD 2500) rolling pop-can car
Product development options just got more interesting
disclaimer: am working in industry, and know that several of the linkages, especially with the US Big 3, are not accurate.
###########
The Toyota-Subaru linkage is also kinda interesting... one knows how to make reliable bulletproof, albeit boring soul-less rides; the other knows how to create specialty 'cult' cars like the Impreza WRC/etc. The potential synergies can be considerable.
Not sure I agree with this... they are not beyond some amount of badge engineering, but certainly nowhere like the Big Three
- Honda Pilot and Acura MDX
- Acura TSX and Honda Accord (first-gen TSX was JDM Accord)
- Acura RDX and new Honda CRV
call it a "Japanese wall"
I think he meant they are independent and don't share technology with numerous other companies..
Anyway, very cool chart.
As a long-time Toy-owner, I'd like to think so too.
While the trickle-down from Lexus is good, this is not always the case:
- Geo/Chevy Prizm = Toyota Corolla
- GM Pontiac Vibe = Corolla Matrix - made by NUMMI (ex-GM plant now a JV between the two) in Fremont CA
Curious to seeing what Jim Press' recent move from Toyota to Chrysler will do. Jim was the top-ranking gaijin with TMC, and is now co-President of Chrysler. Moving from Torrance to le ville d' et troit -- what was he thinking ??
Re: Tufte's brain just blew its buffer!!!
I park my car at the Fiat Parking garage and take the Red line to E transfer station. I then jump on the brown line to the Pontiac Substation and hot foot it to work from there. How about your commute? :biggrin: :tongue:
Sorry for the off topic mass transit humor.... but you don't get a chance to bust that out (if ever) so you got to jump on your chances. :biggrin:
I park my car at the Fiat Parking garage and take the Red line to E transfer station. I then jump on the brown line to the Pontiac Substation and hot foot it to work from there. How about your commute? :biggrin: :tongue:
Sorry for the off topic mass transit humor.... but you don't get a chance to bust that out (if ever) so you got to jump on your chances. :biggrin:
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Not sure I agree with this... they are not beyond some amount of badge engineering, but certainly nowhere like the Big Three
- Honda Pilot and Acura MDX
- Acura TSX and Honda Accord (first-gen TSX was JDM Accord)
- Acura RDX and new Honda CRV
call it a "Japanese wall"
What I meant was that Honda/Acura don't share with OTHER Auto. Companies. Honda/Acura are the same to me. Just like Toyota/Lexus.
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