World Premier TBW\Standalone Hybrid

Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach

Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach

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OK guys - it's do-able . . Gerry Johnson got my 3.2 OBDII car running and idling with the TEC3 controlling fuel & timing and the ECU controlling the throttle. As to how its done, he told me "Ancient Japanese Secret".

This is great news because us 95+ guys don't need to revert to OBD1 to reap the benefits of a standalone controller.

The car is slated for dyno-tuning on Monday, so we ought to have some numbers up soon. Keep in mind this is a stock 3.2 which will be running low\moderate boost.
 
Well I had little doubt that Gerry could figure out how to do it. The only problem I see now is that Gerry is officially the only game in town in terms of mating a stand alone to OBDII meaning the LINE IS GONNA BE EVEN LONGER!!!:eek: Chris, once you get your car back, and I get my car back, we should try and do some 1/4 runs to see what we can pull out of those things.
 
paulviriyapan said:
Well I had little doubt that Gerry could figure out how to do it. The only problem I see now is that Gerry is officially the only game in town in terms of mating a stand alone to OBDII ...
Click to expand...

Well, not necessarily. It appears that the new Motec M600 will do the trick right out of the box (not confirmed) but as anything from Motec it carrys a high price of admission.
 
sjs said:
Well, not necessarily. It appears that the new Motec M600 will do the trick right out of the box (not confirmed) but as anything from Motec it carrys a high price of admission.
Click to expand...

As you stated SJS.
A quoted price anywhere from 4k-7k, make it a very high cost of admission.... That was the price I was recently quoted, If it is that expensive, a lot of people will pass. Me for one... But at least their is hope....
 
Well lets see if we can break down the categories of engine control on a boosted OBDII NSX . . .

1) Stock ECU w/piggybacks; FMU etc.
Pros: Most popular and cost effective technique.
Cons: Offers the least precise A\F and timing control, from marginal at best to disasterous.

2) Complete OBD1 conversion with Standalone. A no-nonsense approach which essentially converts the newer type of NSX to the original drive by cable. The entire throttle control from the gas pedal to the intake manifold is replaced. The engine is completely controlled by a standalone controller. The stock ECU may be retained to run the AC.
Pros: Solid physical throttle control, Solid & precise A\F & Timing control.
Cons: The parts and labor for the retro throttle control may cost an additional $1K-$2K.

3) Hybrid OBDII\Standalone
Pros: Retains stock throttle by wire configuration while still achieving precise A\F and Timing control via Standalone controller, therefore bypassing the cost of time and materials for a retrofit conversion.
Cons: Tricky setup which requires some research and experimentiation, non-physical throttle control which some racers may not prefer.

4) Standalone w/TBW Capability. The new computer controls everything, including the throttle control.
Pros: Complete control is relegated to a single digital device, just as it is in the OBDII ECU.
Cons: Most expensive Standalone controller. Also uncharted territory for the NSX.
 
Don't forget, Factor X says that they have a solution and that it is not the MOTEC 600. Hopefully, they have a solution which is affordable.

Question:

Gerry, if we got enough business together and of course we paid for transportation and lodging, would you be willing to do a road trip for some of us long distance OBD II cars with FI?
 
1) Stock ECU w/piggybacks; FMU etc.
Cons: Offers the least precise A\F and timing control, from marginal at best to disasterous.

Not true at all. I don't have my AFR plots with me, but send a PM to Turbo NSX and ask him how "flat" my AFR curve is at 11.9:1.

2) Complete OBD1 conversion with Standalone......The engine is completely controlled by a standalone controller. The stock ECU may be retained to run the AC.

If the ECU remains in its factory location, where is the standalone controller mounted and how is the wire harness installed.
 
Ok Andy you got me . . I guess I must have exagerated there a bit , of course when I was writing the description of piggyback I was thinking of my old NSXModified setup, not yours . ! So the norm is that it is not that great but certain people can squeeze a real nice curve out of it.

As for question 2, the Standalone goes in the trunk and is wired through the back of the trunk as far as i know. Of course if you use an AEM i think it must replace the stock ECU . .
 
The AEM stand alone can be configured to turn on the A/C compressor based on certain criteria such as load, temps, etc. and would not require additional support from the factory ECU. I'm sure other solutions offer the same support with or with out additional control modules.

-- Chris

AndyVecsey said:
1) Stock ECU w/piggybacks; FMU etc.
Cons: Offers the least precise A\F and timing control, from marginal at best to disasterous.

Not true at all. I don't have my AFR plots with me, but send a PM to Turbo NSX and ask him how "flat" my AFR curve is at 11.9:1.

2) Complete OBD1 conversion with Standalone......The engine is completely controlled by a standalone controller. The stock ECU may be retained to run the AC.

If the ECU remains in its factory location, where is the standalone controller mounted and how is the wire harness installed.
Click to expand...
 
Hey Chris,

Dude, thought the car would be done by now as all the hardware was in and the TEC3 was mindmelded to the ECU! I know your car has been down a while, and I feel your pain. Hope all the dyno tuning gets done soon ('coz I want Gerry nice and rested to work on my car!).

P.S.Those pics on the PA website do not do justice to the mess in the engine bay caused by NSXM.
 
Thanks for the idea RobR; I will check into that I didnt know I missed anything shiny from Dali.

Paul - yeah she is in the home stretch now!

The 'before' pics were taken like a year ago for a magazine, they were taken to "look" good, not show how crap it was . . but I hear ya~!
 
B&T, So howd the dyno go? From Gerry's post in another thread, all sounds good.
 
Due to inclement weather the dyno tuning had to be postponed until at least today, I don't know if he got in over there yet. The dyno shop had closed a lot of last week due to 40mph winds and torrential rain. Apparently the drum on the dyno needs to stay really dry, which makes sense, so they don't want wet cars coming in the building over there.

Gerry said last night though that she is running great even with a preliminary tune, he gave it some gas in 1st and broke the tires loose boosting .7 bar which is approx. 10 PSI.

Here's a pic from behind:

coolernoplate.jpg
 

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