Zeitronix Gauge Cluster Install

[Valhalla]

I'm almost ready to roll, just waiting on a tune. So in my spare time I wanted to make the gauge cluster as OEM as possible. I have the Zeitronix naked gauge and the alarm ZT-2 as well. Dave Dozier hooked me up and the wiring harness was perfect. I told him I wanted to place it in the dash and he was a bit skeptical. But I had an idea.

I got a another clock unit form Shawn in Tampa that didn't work. I asked for one this way and Shawn shipped it to me for free. I gutted it and with the help of three old cassette boxes (yes I still have some cassettes laying around) I fabricated this.

It's tilted at the same angle as the OEM CCU and radio and I have filters that can fit over the display to match the OEM gauge color. I will need to play with that a bit to match up.

Dave is of the opinion that the Prime Nation would like this kind of set up. It took me the better part of a day to fabricate but now that I know what I'm looking for it wouldn't take quite as long. If there is interest, let Dave and myself know and maybe we start production. I'll only need a clock piece and preferably one that doesn't work.

Regardless, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome. Due to the HD and flash of my camera it will expose every flaw but you really have to look to see them. Thanks for looking.

 

[dfdtruckie]

I'm interested. Have a OBDI and going the Angus route very soon.

 

[Flexer]

Wow. That looks great!

 

[TURBO2GO]

I like this. It is in the right location. What did all this run with all the sensors, harness, etc?

You have the 4 things I want. Fuel pressure, AFR, EGT, and boost. My car is OBDII though, maybe Dave can chime and and let me know what is required? I find most OBDII gauges that show you all the ECU parameters to be useless because they give me none of the 4 most important things above. I would also like to add IAT and oil temp if possible.

I just like this install. Can you post a video?

 

[SuperSonic]

turbo, his car is a 97 aka obd2. JC, that looks 1000x better than when I saw it for the gas up. It looks like a mini version Honda makes. I must say, that looks really good. Oh, and off topic but I finally got the car back to 99 percent perfect. Fired it up after I reflashed it, and it started good enough for me.

 

[DDozier]

My car is OBDII though, maybe Dave can chime and and let me know what is required? I find most OBDII gauges that show you all the ECU parameters to be useless because they give me none of the 4 most important things above. I would also like to add IAT and oil temp if possible.

JC's setup is completely self contained and does not use any of the OEM sensors or data from the OEM ECU. The Zeitronixs ZT-2 wideband is its own data logging device and has inputs for tach, throttle position, MAP, EGT, AFR, and two additional user defined 0-5v analog inputs. All data is logged in real time with no lag in either data storage or display. There is very extensive alarm logic that can be programmed to activate a buzzer/LED for warnings. The alarms are easy to define and work very well. You can have simple warnings like AFR to high send alarm or complex warnings like only send alarm if boost is above 2 psi and AFR is leaner than 12.2. With the alarms configured your log file will display the alarms as flashing dots in the data plot so it is easy to find and review in the data collected.

You can use the LCD display like JC did and fab up your own housing or they make traditional gauge styles that can display one or two data streams on each gauge, they also output a serial data stream so the data can be sent to just about any other type of display or recording device. I use the Dashdaq to view the Zeitronixs data and the OBDII data together in a single screen.

There are some limitation to what can be displayed on the LCD gauge but all data is being recorded when connected via a laptop or they make a black box recorder that connect to the serial port of the ZT-2 and records directly to a SD card. This pocket sized recorder is great for collecting track data so the laptop stays in the pit.

I built a complete harness for JC application and set him up with all the correct sensors and mounting hardware, everything is built to order so it does take time to get everything together and lace the harnesses. I think we turned around his project from design to finshed product in about three weeks. It can happen faster but that gave us time to discuss and decide what sensor where needed and how he wanted to install them. The ZT-2 can be used as a simple wideband and grow as needed the ZT-2 plus a single gauge or LCD Display is only $399 then you start adding sensors. They make a ZT-3 that is a wideband only and has no additional inputs or data collection and it is only $269 with a gauge display, but the real strength of the product is the data collection that the ZT-2 offers.

More info on the ZT-2 and other Zeitronixs products can be found here:
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm

Dave

 

[TURBO2GO]

Dave help me out. I definitely need some gauges and I am not sure which direction to go. I have a CTSC. I'd like to keep track of IAT, AFR, boost, and I think probably fuel pressure and EGT. Looking for a clean look, not a Tokyo-By-Night light show. Some of these flashy skins on the dashdaq look cool but I wonder about their functionality. 4 gauges on a 4" screen doesn't seem functional. Main use for me would be diagnostics if something has a hiccup and mainly alarms to warn in case something goes wrong. Can the LCD display fit in the ashtray location? I may even throw it in the glovebox. Do you see a need to keep a constant eye on anything if alarms are set? EGT or AFR is not like a tach... Why do I constantly need to see it? Does this sound logical? I want to keep a clean OEM look. What would you do? What gauges would you choose, what display, where would you mount it?

 

[TURBO2GO]

Oh and I want a self contained system, I don't think there is any benefit tapping into the OBDII system. I know a lot of data is available there and everyone is making plug-in gauges and pulling info but I find all that to be useless and delayed. Is there something there that you think is useful?

 

[Valhalla]

With my turbo setup the gauge location is not critical because my controllers won't let my turbos over boost. And with the alarms set simple or complex, with the audio and light display, I will get a warning. But I do like to keep an eye on things, and that is why I placed it in the clock location. If it is down by the ashtray (where I have my Android phone which handles navigation, radar detection, music and phone) you will constantly be taking your eyes off the road. I want as little distraction as possible as the telephone poles are going by me like a picket fence.

 

[TURBO2GO]

What is it that you need to constantly monitor? I don't even look at my factory gauges that often other than the tach. I know people like to display their gauges, but I don't want an F&F look. Kinda why I like the LCD.

 

[Valhalla]

Turbo2Go - Depending upon your set up you will want to keep an eye on the following;

• AFR - Depending upon running F/IC or full stand alone you will want to know if the car is running too lean or too rich in any area of your rpm's or load. This helps in fine tuning your system.
• Boost - My controllers won't let my turbos overboost. You may not have that luxury and if you over spin a turbo you can turn it into a very expensive grenade.
• EGT - not critical but if your exhaust is hotter than normal it may lead to a possible lean/detonation problem due to timing, lean fuel conditions or worse, detonation.
• Fuel Pressure - I have replaced my stock FP with a Walbro 255, upgraded the FPR to the AEM 1:1 FPR and replaced the filter. I know I can pump up my pressure to what ever I want. If you are still running stock hardware and large boost, this will tell you if you have sufficient flow to keep up.

To SuperSonic - thanks for the compliment. I was just trying to get the gauge in and working for the first attempt at the tune. I knew I was going to do something a little more permanent and a lot better looking. Glad you like the looks. I'll add a filter over it to match the existing red/orange color of the OEM gauges over the weekend. By the way, the gauge is plenty bright enough that I can read it in full sun with the top off.

 

[RYU]

I'm a happy Zeitronix user. It's been a happy few months of data logging. It has really opened my eyes and provided me confidence to tackle my own tune F/IC tune. Here's a plug for DDozier for hooking me up with the Z gear. Thanks

Not keeping an eye on your gauges (especially when at the track) gives you no ability to notice warning signs until it's too late. I like audible alarms hooked up just for this purpose.

BTW.. does anyone know if the ZDL software has a RPM alarm (i.e. redline/shift light audible alarm?)

Valhalla - I spoke to you before about my plan for the LCD in the clock setup. I was hoping to do it a little bit different (nice work on yours btw!!). I wanted to remove the clock assembly completely and recess the unit way in the back. This way it will be in sort of a "cave" and will aid in visibility on sunny track days. I will have to build a trim surround of some sort. Have you tried recessing that thing back there? Will it even fit? I spoke to Zietronix and they do allow the removal of the LCD itself from the housing which will save some real estate.

Here's a view from one ZT-2 with all sensor inputs used. Boost/Vacuum, RPM, Throttle Position, AFR, IAT, Fuel Pressure.

 

[Valhalla]

I'm a happy Zeitronix user. It's been a happy few months of data logging. It has really opened my eyes and provided me confidence to tackle my own tune F/IC tune. Here's a plug for DDozier for hooking me up with the Z gear. Thanks

Not keeping an eye on your gauges (especially when at the track) gives you no ability to notice warning signs until it's too late. I like audible alarms hooked up just for this purpose.

BTW.. does anyone know if the ZDL software has a RPM alarm (i.e. redline/shift light audible alarm?)

Valhalla - I spoke to you before about my plan for the LCD in the clock setup. I was hoping to do it a little bit different (nice work on yours btw!!). I wanted to remove the clock assembly completely and recess the unit way in the back. This way it will be in sort of a "cave" and will aid in visibility on sunny track days. I will have to build a trim surround of some sort. Have you tried recessing that thing back there? Will it even fit? I spoke to Zietronix and they do allow the removal of the LCD itself from the housing which will save some real estate.

Here's a view from one ZT-2 with all sensor inputs used. Boost/Vacuum, RPM, Throttle Position, AFR, IAT, Fuel Pressure.

Yeah I too have this access with gauges on the software I installed on my laptop. some answers to your questions RYU -

• I bought the "naked" gauge with no case surrounding or protecting the boards. I did wrap these in plastic and taped them up real well so that there would be no shorts or issues. Once you buy the naked gauge you can not return if to Zeitronix. The reason I got this instead of the one with the case as it is smaller and you can sort of remote the second non-display board.
• One of the functions that you can monitor and alarm is RPM's
• There is not enough room to push this back into the dash any further for that "cave look". It has to sit on top of the center vent and I have it down as low as it will go.
• The gauge is quite bright, even in direct sunlight so I see no gains from the cave look or a hood. Just my $.02.

 

[TURBO2GO]

So there is no way to switch inputs on the LCD display, right? If you want to see more than 4 parameters you need a second LCD. But this is not the case with the dashdaq. Right?

 

[DDozier]

Dave help me out. I definitely need some gauges and I am not sure which direction to go. I have a CTSC. I'd like to keep track of IAT, AFR, boost, and I think probably fuel pressure and EGT. Looking for a clean look, not a Tokyo-By-Night light show. Some of these flashy skins on the dashdaq look cool but I wonder about their functionality. 4 gauges on a 4" screen doesn't seem functional. Main use for me would be diagnostics if something has a hiccup and mainly alarms to warn in case something goes wrong. Can the LCD display fit in the ashtray location? I may even throw it in the glovebox. Do you see a need to keep a constant eye on anything if alarms are set? EGT or AFR is not like a tach... Why do I constantly need to see it? Does this sound logical? I want to keep a clean OEM look. What would you do? What gauges would you choose, what display, where would you mount it?

You are on the right track using OBDII as a real data source is only good for seeing slow changing data like IAT or Fuel trims, on the NSX data speeds are way too slow to use for anything else. On more modern ECU's with CAN bus and higher data rates the OEM sensors and data rates can not be beat. For the most part access to that data is cheap and easy, but we are working with the equivelant of an Apple IIc as far as computing power with our OEM ECU's. Your iPhone or Android has way more proccesing power than all the control modules in an NSX combined.

If you do not track your car looking at the data as you drive around town is not as important, and if you do not want to see a gauge them get the ZT-2, setup your sensors and add the Black Box recorder. All the data can be logged to an SD card at the press of a button, do some driving and review your logs later when you get back home.

As far as what you want to see if you have gauges. It is a good idea with the CTSC to watch/log AFR, IAT, fuel pressure and boost. While having all in your line of site is not required putting any device that you will look at while driving out of your normal view is just silly. My recomendation is on top of the center stack like JC or mine is, or above the rear view mirror on coupe's. The "T" will not fit most gauges above the mirror due to the roof design. Some guys like the gauge pods on the pillar, I am not a fan but it is a personal choice not a problem with placement. The ashtray locations is out of your normal site line while driving, it can be done and if you are creative the LCD can go in the ashtray behind the ashtray door for a stealth look.

With a CTSC boost gauge will tell you if you have a boost leak or belt slip, Fuel pressure will tell you the health of your pump or filter, AFR will tell you both the fuel and tune are correct, IAT will tell you that you need an intercooler or meth kit as it will always be high and scary without it, but if you have either cooling methods it will tell you if they are working or not.

Here are pics of my setup:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1407351&postcount=7

Here is a video of my setup in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQGI42EHJyY

The DashDaq is not for everyone, but it will talk to just about any device that has a serial data steam, you can pull data directly from OBDII, AEM ECU, Motec, or a mutitude of other devices and gizmos to get data. For me the screen size is not to big or to small, I did get the GPS map option but I have only used it once. I do use the GPS sensor as a data source when needed but as a GPS navigation it is not the best but it does work.

One other cool option if you only wanted AFR is Zeitronixs makes a gauge called a "Tweaker" it is an LED display that can only display AFR but it is really small and really bright, I have seen them installed in the rear view mirror itself after a small part of the silver backing had been removed from the mirror. When on the AFR value is there when off it is a mirror, very cool. The same could be done with the LCD display but you would have to build a new mirror to pull it off.

There are a few good install ideas in the gallery page about half way down:
http://www.zeitronix.com/customers/gallery.htm

Dave

 

[DDozier]

So there is no way to switch inputs on the LCD display, right? If you want to see more than 4 parameters you need a second LCD. But this is not the case with the dashdaq. Right?

You can setup the LCD to display upto four parameters, the gauge will always display the AFR/Lambda and EGT, you can set the other two displays to be either boost, TPS, User1 input, or User 2 input. There are limitation to what you can see and what location it is asigned to. So it is best you read the setup instruction and make sure it will do what you want. Once setup with the four parameters you want you can not change them on the fly without going into a setup menu and changing them. It does not have mutiple pages you can switch to.

You can link upto 3 of the Zeitronixs regular round gauges and display upto 6 parameters at once but you can only have 1 LCD display connected to the ZT-2 at a time, that is the limitation of the LCD display. I understand the LCD hardware is being reworked now to deal with some of its limitations but I have no idea if and when a new device will be ready.

The DashDaq is a skin based display, you can make your own, hire someone to make them for you or pick from those who have made skins and are willing to share them. The process of making a skin is not hard but it is very labor intensive and not something you will sit down in a day and be done with your new skin, it takes me weeks to work on a custom skin. There is a lot of info on the DashDaq forums and many skins to download and try.

DashDaq Skin Forum:
http://forums.drewtech.com/viewforum.php?f=37&sid=f4658428b82618c8f42ce432dcafbe10

Dave

 

[DDozier]

BTW.. does anyone know if the ZDL software has a RPM alarm (i.e. redline/shift light audible alarm?)

The ZAVT-1 is a small alarm warning device that can display the LED, sound a 95db alarm, or do both based on the ZDL software alarm settings. The ZT-2 is actually triggering the alarm and can be setup to trigger any device based on an alarm condition. You could use this output to trigger a meth kit, a boost controller, a boost-a-pump, a shift light, or really any device that can be triggered by voltage or ground. The ZAVT-1 is a nice prepackaged sounder and really bright LED warning device, it has no brain it is just reacting to the ZT-2's trigger.

In the software you can pick any input and then setup if/then/and/or statements to trigger the alarm. You can have mutiple alarms but they will all sound the same or active the same trigger. So if you use it to trigger a warning light all alarms will light the same light there is no way to light a different light for each different type of warning.

Dave

 

[TURBO2GO]

So Dave, the dashdaq will allow use of more than 4 sensors? Let's say I want boost, AFR, IAT, and fuel pressure. The LCD is out because EGT is a mandatory item. I guess I need a dashdaq. Is there a reason you didn't just use a Navpod?

So I need a dashdaq, a zt-2, all the sensors, a navpod, the card storage, a warning light/buzzer, and then what about the hookup of all these? How many factory wires need to be tapped into for this? I hate doing that.

Can you give me an idea of cost?

 

[TURBO2GO]

I guess I can forget IAT, and use the LCD in the same way Valhalla has, and just log the IAT? Not sure how "critical" that is to view.

Valhalla have you figured out a way to make it red?

 

[EAC]

I've seen Dave's setup in action. It's badass and the pod is completely custom. It's not a Navpod.

 

[Valhalla]

I guess I can forget IAT, and use the LCD in the same way Valhalla has, and just log the IAT? Not sure how "critical" that is to view.

Valhalla have you figured out a way to make it red?

Yes and it was Dave's suggestion. I don't have the link at hand but I'm sure I can send it to you when I get home tonight. There is a company that sells books of filters for camera lenses. There a a bazzilion color choices. You just match up the one closest to the OEM. Try it in daylight and night as you may have to comprimise a touch but you will get real close with out loosing too much brightness for daytime driving. Measure, cut and stick it on the face and it will also cut down on some of the glare from the clear glass reflection of the naked gauge.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Yes and it was Dave's suggestion. I don't have the link at hand but I'm sure I can send it to you when I get home tonight. There is a company that sells books of filters for camera lenses. There a a bazzilion color choices. You just match up the one closest to the OEM. Try it in daylight and night as you may have to comprimise a touch but you will get real close with out loosing too much brightness for daytime driving. Measure, cut and stick it on the face and it will also cut down on some of the glare from the clear glass reflection of the naked gauge.

This thing doesn't dim, right? Must be crazy bright at night. Let me know what you install for a filter.

Ryu, do you see any need to have line of sight of IAT instead of just logging it?

 

[TURBO2GO]

DashDaq Skin Forum:
http://forums.drewtech.com/viewforum.php?f=37&sid=f4658428b82618c8f42ce432dcafbe10

Dave

Someone needs to do an NSX theme.

 

[RYU]

Ryu, do you see any need to have line of sight of IAT instead of just logging it?

It's a little hard for me to say but i'm leaning towards no. It depends what other sensors you have hooked up which can be telling of a high IAT condition.

For example, in your stock CTSC setup.. your car will begin to run rich (AFR in the 10s) when your IAT gets real hot.

Below is an old log of mine which was a WOT pull from 1-2-3. You can see IAT (orange line) moves pretty slowly compared to the rest. However, a good warmup lap will cause your IATs to rise pretty high if you have no cooling as show below; 1st gear started around 141F of IAT then after 3rd i'm at 192F. Imagine what a consistent high rpm track session would yield? This was simply a street pull at around 60F ambient.

IAT is one of those gauges I don't mind taking a glance at. It's really more a warning gauge of what's to come.

 

[DDozier]

So Dave, the dashdaq will allow use of more than 4 sensors? Let's say I want boost, AFR, IAT, and fuel pressure. The LCD is out because EGT is a mandatory item. I guess I need a dashdaq. Is there a reason you didn't just use a Navpod?

So I need a dashdaq, a zt-2, all the sensors, a navpod, the card storage, a warning light/buzzer, and then what about the hookup of all these? How many factory wires need to be tapped into for this? I hate doing that.

Can you give me an idea of cost?

The DashDaq has no real limit to the number of items that can be logged or displayed other than real estate to display the value, with the DashDaq you would not need a card storage. All logged data is stored on the DashDaqs built in SD card in the Zeitronixs logging format so they are able to be viewed using the free Zeitronixs software.

The Dashdaq has two serial ports, one OBDII port, two analog ports and one very limited use USB port.

In my system I use the two seerial ports to talk to two ZT-2 AFR sensors, on one of my ZT-2's I have AFR on Bank 1 of the engine, MAP sensor for boost, the Tach wire for RPM, the TPS wire, User2 has been setup for fuel pressure, User1 and EGT are not in use and available inputs. On the Second ZT-2 I am using it for AFR on Bank 2 of the engine. User1, User2, EGT, MAP, RPM, and TPS are not connected and are available analog inputs. The DashDaq's two analog inputs are not in use. OBDII is connected and in use and supports Generic OBDII on the NSX, the USB port is connected to the GPS receiver for the navigation and raw GPS data logging.

If this is setup still needed more inputs a company called Phidgets makes a USB based 8x8x8 Chnl analog/digital input/output device that adds 8 additional analog inputs, 8 digital inputs, and 8 outputs. They also make a 3 axis acceleromter for measureing g-force and cornering loads.

The OEM Nav pod will work if you want to use it, I do not like the looks of it myself and wanted something that looked OEM, matched the gauge cluster better and fit my needs better. My pod is a one off custom piece and I will not make another. If you can find a local guy near you I can send him a ton of pics and point him in the right direction but I will not make another one as it is just too time consuming and know one in thier right mind would pay me for my time. I have explored the option of doing a 3D scan of my completed pod, cleaning it up in the software and using rapid prototype machines to make more but it would require a minimum of 10 units just to brake even on the project and they would still cost over $500.00 each just for the pod. You should be able to find a local car stereo shop to make the pod the way you want it for about $500.00 or less.

As far as a full blown DashDaq Dual AFR, dual pressure, dual temp, dual EGT setup similar to mine with all the sensors, GPS Navigation option, and a custom harness you are looking at spending 2500.00-2700.00. If you dont need dual everything and just want AFR, RPM, TPS, MAP, EGT, IAT, and OBDii you are talking 1700-1900.00 for parts and wire harness.

You will cut no wire with one of my harnesses, I do not believe in cutting into any OEM harness. You will use a ECU jupper harness to tap the needed connections or if you are using a F/IC the Boolslang or similar harness will get you access to the needed wires. The ZT-2 or Dual ZT-2's mount next to the ECU on the rear firewall and are completely covered by the OEM Panels, the data connection to the ZT-2 and Dashdaq are all either under the dash in the passenger foorwell or at the DashDaq pod. All wires are marked and will require little working knowledge of automotive wiring to complete. Any local performance shop or tuner will be able to install this in under a day no problem. I recomend you do your own installs but if you choose to have someone do it I would be happy to help them layout the project over the phone and can send pics of my install to get them going.

Here is a graphical layout of a dual everything system:

Dave