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E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Joined
24 November 2006
Messages
501
Location
Florida
Hi Guys I'm about to convert my Nsx to E85 fuel conversion supposedly this is the way to go to get the most out of your supercharger system .Great horse power increases along with the safety of running cooler I was told with this set-up you will not need Methanol injection since the ethanol is injected directly through your injectors more evenly & accurate.
here is what i was told you will need for the conversion
Checklist for conversion
1000CC Injectors
Surge Tank for fuel
2 walboro Inline fuel pumps
Recommend swap factory knock sensors for Bosch sensors more accurate when tuning
Misc.hoses/clamps/fittings etc.
E85 fuel available now at certain gas stations only $2.35 a gallon
A good tuner that is familiar with this swap.

If anyone has done this yet please forward your results & pics if not I will keep you guys Posted.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Finally, people here are considering this. I have converted my car to E85, well it is not running, yet.

This is what I did.
Toyota Supra fuel pump
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator to raise base fuel pressure.
1000cc injectors
Teflon coated/stainless steel lines
Stainless steel, 10 micron fuel filter with Viton/Teflon guts
Nickel plated fuel rails

The fuel tank is made of steel, so it should be good. There is no need
for a fuel surge tank.

I think you should be able to support 475 whp and have a cooler running engine with better ignition timing. You need a standalone computer (AEM, ProEFI, MOTEC, Hydra) and maybe a boost-a-pump. It is wise to change your fuel filter after a couple of tanks as the ethanol will liberate some debris from you tank!!

Good luck
 
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Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

roondog, what is the limiting factor here? I'm at 440 rwhp on 91 pump using 550 injectors. I can't imagine it's the fuel if you're at 1000cc? Are you assuming otherwise stock motor?
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Your fuel system will have to be capable of supporting 20-30% more fuel (bigger injectors and possibly a higher volume fuel pump). E85 is the equivalent of running 105 octane so you can raise boost pressure and the timing can be advanced to a race gas tune. Engine will run cooler and you can run it on the fat side with minimal power loss. E85 $2.60/gal. 100 octane gas $7.00/gal. I am thinking of doing it on a 944 Turbo DE car.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

I have been wondering if anyone has ran this yet.

Roondogg - What is your current power level and your planned power level?
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

I got 572 WHP on a 4cyl with 1000s. I would bet you could go alot more than 700 whp. Just make sure you have a fuel pump designed for much more than that to handle the demand.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Thanks guys for the quick response & interest.
I currently switched my pulley for my BBSC to a 15lb pulley my current set up is with a walboro 225 in-tank pump with RC 550cc injectors & Aem Ems etc.
We were dyno-ing the car & got to 465RWHP before we stared seeing some knock this is on a stock bottom end motor.My Tuner said we were running out of fuel & the injectors duty cycle were almost at 100%.Recommended if I was looking to see 500hp or close to that at the rear wheels that he says go with the e85 set-up & we should have no problems this Tuner is Lance from ToyoMoto who has set-up several of these E85 swaps with great HP increases.
As far as more fuel being wasted this maybe the case sacrifice for more power it still only cost 2.35 a gallon compared to race fuel sounds worth while to me also you wont need to run a Methanol injection system
Since I wont need my RC550cc injectors or methanol injection system anymore please send me a PM if interested in those parts for your kit .I just posted them for sale.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

.....As far as more fuel being wasted this maybe the case sacrifice for more power it still only cost 2.35 a gallon compared to race fuel sounds worth while to me also you wont need to run a Methanol injection system .....

So, if what I was saying is correct, then the $2.35/gal may be moot when there is alot more fuel required to obtain the HP goals. Right?
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

I am not a mechanic but i know several people running this system according to them you do waste some fuel but we are all running 450 hp plus cars I believe it takes about 20 to 30% more fuel to run this setup
1000 cc Injectors
Additional Inline pumps
Extra fuel surge tank recommended this would all equal more fuel being burned well worth it to me if you have enough gas stations in your area to supply your need.Others I have spoken to have seen from 30 to 40hp increases with this set-up
 
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Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Sure you are going to use around 30% more fuel but the E85 is 300% less expensive than race gas so it makes a lot of sense dollar wise.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

For what it's worth, I'm considering the ProEFI EMS, and one of the features is that is able to compensate for varying concentrations of ethanol in conjunction with a sensor.

So, rather than have an e85 map and an gasoline map, it would allow you to just put e85 in the tank and go, regardless of whether it's all e85 or if there is residual gasoline in the tank.

If you are planning on going exclusively e85, then it is a moot point.


- Craig
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

roondog, what is the limiting factor here? I'm at 440 rwhp on 91 pump using 550 injectors. I can't imagine it's the fuel if you're at 1000cc? Are you assuming otherwise stock motor?

Usually the limiting factor is the fuel pump and its ability to flow enough fuel with high fuel pressures. You must have larger injectors to take advantage of the flow.
Roondogg - What is your current power level and your planned power level?

I plan to run 475 hp to the wheels and that is all!

For what it's worth, I'm considering the ProEFI EMS, and one of the features is that is able to compensate for varying concentrations of ethanol in conjunction with a sensor.

So, rather than have an e85 map and an gasoline map, it would allow you to just put e85 in the tank and go, regardless of whether it's all e85 or if there is residual gasoline in the tank.

If you are planning on going exclusively e85, then it is a moot point.


- Craig

ProEFI does utilize a GM flex fuel sensor. It automatically adjusts your fueling/timing to give you a safe mixture to drive with. It is quite amazing. It can even control traction!!!
 
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Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

V8 Killer seems to have done his homework here on this subject .I'm glad some of you already have great info to share with other Nsx owners.I have heard nothing but positive benefits in going this route in high power engine applications for all vehicles.I will be taking this plunge shortly & will keep everyone posted with progress.This seems to be the next level of performance.Just like when the methanol injection system was introduced.If anyone is running a similar set-up like the one on my list.I would like to see some ideas or pictures as to where to mount the surge tank & what size tanks are being used for surge tank applications.
 
Re: ? E85 Fuel conversion anyone done it yet ?

Roondog what power are you at now before E85?

I removed a CTSC. I am piecing my kit together very carefully. I am very particular about the components of the kit. I prefer not to do things twice. I will let you know how things are working when they get done.

Thanks
 
Resurrecting an older thread.

I plan on doing the switch to E85 for my CTSC'd NSX.
On my to get list are the following:
ID 1000 injectors
Wallbro fuel pump
AEM EMS

I will be having Tony at T1 Race Developments in Dallas do my tuning. This will probably take place sometime towards the end of summer.
 
Resurrecting an older thread.
I will be having Tony at T1 Race Developments in Dallas do my tuning. This will probably take place sometime towards the end of summer.

PM me when you are in town, I'd love to check out your NSX at T1!
 
During my last motor build, I switched to E-85 for track use, and as well running dual maps for 91 octane for road trips since E-85 is not available everywhere.

Here's the changes I made:

1000 cc injectors
Upgraded all Fuel Lines
MagnaFuel single fuel pump mounted external from the fuel tank. (Considering switching over to external dual Bosch 044’s)
100 micron Pre Pump Fuel Filter
25 micron Pre Injector Fuel Filter
AN 10 lines out of the gas tank with a modified gas tank cover plate and pick up, AN 8 lines to the fuel rails. Still running AN6 fuel rails but that about to be changed to AN 8 fuel rails being custom made.
All AN fittings everywhere.
Fuel Surge Tank mounted in the same location as the charcoal canister so the gas tank can breath, with a roll over valve and filter on top of the swirl tank. Removed all OEM gas tank breathing restrictions. The demand for more fuel will cause the pump(s) to cavitate and not supply the fuel needed if not getting enough air to replace the fuel being used. Learned this the hard way since I got stranded twice on road trips and burned up a $500.00 pump because of the cavitation. The vent tube and all of its check valves on the OEM gas tank are NOT big enough to supply the air needed to replace the fuel usage on E-85 with their restrictions.

Here’s what I’ve learned.

I get 15 miles to the gallon on long freeway drives on E-85, cruising with some playing here and there. Latest trip to California, 240 miles, 16 gallons.
On the track, I get 6 to 8.
14 lbs of boost, 550 rwhp is where I settled in and more than happy with the power it puts down safely. I could care less about my car being Dyno queen.

When we first tuned it just to see the potential, we got 600+ rwhp on 14lbs of boost with timing advanced, but we backed off the timing to give me some longevity with the motor. Motors are not cheap to build, as we all know.

Mitch Peterson does my tuning, continually monitors my data logs for me and makes any minor adjustments that have had to be done. So far, no major changes have had to be made in the original tune in the last 5000 miles and 12 track days.

We checked the intake temps on some hard driving at Firebird Raceway during an event and we were at 86 degrees on E-85.
Car runs noticeable cooler, oil temps and cooling temps.
Motor is much more alive and responsive on E-85

I have a Chevron 2 blocks from my house that sells E-85 so I run it 90% of the time.

On 91 octane I get 18 MPH on road trips. Coming back from California, 300 miles on 16 gallons. Cruising and some playing.
14 lbs of boost, timing reduced. 450 rwhp.
I run a GT-35R turbo and 14 lbs of boost off the wastegate spring only.

I run a crankcase breather can off both valve covers.
With E-85 I do get some water residual in the breather can, not very much but a little since the E-85 tents to hold moisture. I also found that E-85 tends to breakdown the oil a little faster than 91 octane.

Another thing I tested was the longevity of E-85 sitting in the tank for periods of time. E-85 stays at 85% for about 10 days and then starts to drop. This is something you have to be careful of since if you tune at 85% and don’t drive the car much and it sits for too long, you could be now running at 80% and tuned at 85% and this could lead to engine detonation.

E-85 also tends to collect moisture when not continually used.
There is about a 30% difference in usage, E-85 burning more. But with the cost of E-85 vs. 91 octane, it balances out the cost and the benefits of running 104 octane all the time goes without saying. Not to mention 105 octane gas for the track is $9.00+ a gallon.

Best change I ever made, glad I did it.
 
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You guys may wanna contact fur..screen name = V5e_nsx
I know he runs E85 in one if his nsx's
We dont get to see much of the car since Fresno doesn't have any E85 stations around and the closest one is almost 2hrs north in modesto LOL
But it runs great when it has gas to run :biggrin:

Zaid
 
During my last motor build, I switched to E-85 for track use, and as well running dual maps for 91 octane for road trips since E-85 is not available everywhere.

Here's the changes I made:

1000 cc injectors
Upgraded all Fuel Lines
MagnaFuel single fuel pump mounted external from the fuel tank. (Considering switching over to external dual Bosch 044’s)
100 micron Pre Pump Fuel Filter
25 micron Pre Injector Fuel Filter
AN 10 lines out of the gas tank with a modified gas tank cover plate and pick up, AN 8 lines to the fuel rails. Still running AN6 fuel rails but that about to be changed to AN 8 fuel rails being custom made.
All AN fittings everywhere.
Fuel Surge Tank mounted in the same location as the charcoal canister so the gas tank can breath, with a roll over valve and filter on top of the swirl tank. Removed all OEM gas tank breathing restrictions. The demand for more fuel will cause the pump(s) to cavitate and not supply the fuel needed if not getting enough air to replace the fuel being used. Learned this the hard way since I got stranded twice on road trips and burned up a $500.00 pump because of the cavitation. The vent tube and all of its check valves on the OEM gas tank are NOT big enough to supply the air needed to replace the fuel usage on E-85 with their restrictions.

Here’s what I’ve learned.

I get 15 miles to the gallon on long freeway drives on E-85, cruising with some playing here and there. Latest trip to California, 240 miles, 16 gallons.
On the track, I get 6 to 8.
14 lbs of boost, 550 rwhp is where I settled in and more than happy with the power it puts down safely. I could care less about my car being Dyno queen.

When we first tuned it just to see the potential, we got 600+ rwhp on 14lbs of boost with timing advanced, but we backed off the timing to give me some longevity with the motor. Motors are not cheap to build, as we all know.

Mitch Peterson does my tuning, continually monitors my data logs for me and makes any minor adjustments that have had to be done. So far, no major changes have had to be made in the original tune in the last 5000 miles and 12 track days.

We checked the intake temps on some hard driving at Firebird Raceway during an event and we were at 86 degrees on E-85.
Car runs noticeable cooler, oil temps and cooling temps.
Motor is much more alive and responsive on E-85

I have a Chevron 2 blocks from my house that sells E-85 so I run it 90% of the time.

On 91 octane I get 18 MPH on road trips. Coming back from California, 300 miles on 16 gallons. Cruising and some playing.
14 lbs of boost, timing reduced. 450 rwhp.
I run a GT-35R turbo and 14 lbs of boost off the wastegate spring only.

I run a crankcase breather can off both valve covers.
With E-85 I do get some water residual in the breather can, not very much but a little since the E-85 tents to hold moisture. I also found that E-85 tends to breakdown the oil a little faster than 91 octane.

Another thing I tested was the longevity of E-85 sitting in the tank for periods of time. E-85 stays at 85% for about 10 days and then starts to drop. This is something you have to be careful of since if you tune at 85% and don’t drive the car much and it sits for too long, you could be now running at 80% and tuned at 85% and this could lead to engine detonation.

E-85 also tends to collect moisture when not continually used.
There is about a 30% difference in usage, E-85 burning more. But with the cost of E-85 vs. 91 octane, it balances out the cost and the benefits of running 104 octane all the time goes without saying. Not to mention 105 octane gas for the track is $9.00+ a gallon.

Best change I ever made, glad I did it.

Some good info there. Never even considered the Fuel tank breather!

I'm planning to see if i can get twin 044's in the Tank & -8 lines to custom rails for my E85 conversion. I was thinking of using the Ecu to stage the pumps bringing the 2nd pump in on boost to help reduce heating the fuel.
May i ask what brand injectors you're using? & what's your idle like.
Thanks
 
During my last motor build, I switched to E-85 for track use, and as well running dual maps for 91 octane for road trips since E-85 is not available everywhere.

Here's the changes I made:

1000 cc injectors
Upgraded all Fuel Lines
MagnaFuel single fuel pump mounted external from the fuel tank. (Considering switching over to external dual Bosch 044’s)
100 micron Pre Pump Fuel Filter
25 micron Pre Injector Fuel Filter
AN 10 lines out of the gas tank with a modified gas tank cover plate and pick up, AN 8 lines to the fuel rails. Still running AN6 fuel rails but that about to be changed to AN 8 fuel rails being custom made.
All AN fittings everywhere.
Fuel Surge Tank mounted in the same location as the charcoal canister so the gas tank can breath, with a roll over valve and filter on top of the swirl tank. Removed all OEM gas tank breathing restrictions. The demand for more fuel will cause the pump(s) to cavitate and not supply the fuel needed if not getting enough air to replace the fuel being used. Learned this the hard way since I got stranded twice on road trips and burned up a $500.00 pump because of the cavitation. The vent tube and all of its check valves on the OEM gas tank are NOT big enough to supply the air needed to replace the fuel usage on E-85 with their restrictions.

Here’s what I’ve learned.

I get 15 miles to the gallon on long freeway drives on E-85, cruising with some playing here and there. Latest trip to California, 240 miles, 16 gallons.
On the track, I get 6 to 8.
14 lbs of boost, 550 rwhp is where I settled in and more than happy with the power it puts down safely. I could care less about my car being Dyno queen.

When we first tuned it just to see the potential, we got 600+ rwhp on 14lbs of boost with timing advanced, but we backed off the timing to give me some longevity with the motor. Motors are not cheap to build, as we all know.

Mitch Peterson does my tuning, continually monitors my data logs for me and makes any minor adjustments that have had to be done. So far, no major changes have had to be made in the original tune in the last 5000 miles and 12 track days.

We checked the intake temps on some hard driving at Firebird Raceway during an event and we were at 86 degrees on E-85.
Car runs noticeable cooler, oil temps and cooling temps.
Motor is much more alive and responsive on E-85

I have a Chevron 2 blocks from my house that sells E-85 so I run it 90% of the time.

On 91 octane I get 18 MPH on road trips. Coming back from California, 300 miles on 16 gallons. Cruising and some playing.
14 lbs of boost, timing reduced. 450 rwhp.
I run a GT-35R turbo and 14 lbs of boost off the wastegate spring only.

I run a crankcase breather can off both valve covers.
With E-85 I do get some water residual in the breather can, not very much but a little since the E-85 tents to hold moisture. I also found that E-85 tends to breakdown the oil a little faster than 91 octane.

Another thing I tested was the longevity of E-85 sitting in the tank for periods of time. E-85 stays at 85% for about 10 days and then starts to drop. This is something you have to be careful of since if you tune at 85% and don’t drive the car much and it sits for too long, you could be now running at 80% and tuned at 85% and this could lead to engine detonation.

E-85 also tends to collect moisture when not continually used.
There is about a 30% difference in usage, E-85 burning more. But with the cost of E-85 vs. 91 octane, it balances out the cost and the benefits of running 104 octane all the time goes without saying. Not to mention 105 octane gas for the track is $9.00+ a gallon.

Best change I ever made, glad I did it.

Some good info there. Never even considered the Fuel tank breather!

I'm planning to see if i can get twin 044's in the Tank & -8 lines to custom rails for my E85 conversion. I was thinking of using the Ecu to stage the pumps bringing the 2nd pump in on boost to help reduce heating the fuel.
May i ask what brand injectors you're using? & what's your idle like.
Thanks
 
Yes, very important. You can only feed the amount needed if you allow for the displacement of volume. I current run a 1/2" breather, while OK, I can still hear fluctuations in the system. I will be changing it to AN 12 soon keeping my roller over valve and filter.

We are making custom AN 8 rails now. I am already running AN 12 (correction from above) from the tank to AN 10 into the filters and to soon to be AN 8 feeding the injectors back into a Y and to the regulator. My plan is to control the pressure from the back end. Which I already do just haven't put each bank on it's own circuit yet.

Twin 44's are a good choice. But in tank will become a pain in the ass.
Trust me, mount them outside the tank. Eliminate the 1/8" lines for the Emissions and Canister as they will screw with you....and just do a straight breather.
Otherwise you WILL experience cavitation in the pump(s).

I run a single MagnaFuel 600 pro single pump with great support and they have become a sponsor as well. My early days of not understanding has now become a situation of learning, MagnaFuel knows their shit.

RC is a sponsor, they are 1000cc and their support is incredible.

My idle is perfect. Power on and off.
This has a lot to do with my tuning by Mitch Peterson.
Incredible tuner for both on and off track.
 
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is it really necessary to upgrade all the fuel system lines? from what ive been reading E85 has about the same corrosive properties as regular gas
 
Some people don't. I know of a few S2000's that run E-85 on the OEM hoses that aren't having any problems. Not yet anyway.

I upgraded all the lines just to be sure.

is it really necessary to upgrade all the fuel system lines? from what ive been reading E85 has about the same corrosive properties as regular gas
 
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