What is going on with these dealerships...Honda lost a real customer

I was just speculating on what happened.

I believe there are multiple car shopper personalities out there.

I refer to myself as a lock in and lock on personality.

Once I decide what I want, I just bounce my way around the world until I find someone with the car (or allocation in this case I want).

If they combine the access I am looking for and are folks I feel good about dealing with, I move forward.

Other folks are less locked into a car (or a TV) and can thus float toward deals that they perceive are favorable on a desired option.

JD Cross said:

If you want an NSX you'll buy one from someone, somewhere period.
The OP has posted in other threads concerned about NSX value/pricing so he's not a committed buyer but rather a cross shopper.

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I'm one of those strange fellows that tries to get a great deal, concerned about excessive drop in value and I do shop around. I write off some of the lease during tax time but I'm not mega rich and can't just buy regardless of the numbers. Yes, the lease numbers are pitiful and if residual is true then the NSX will be worth $78K in 3 years. Yes that bothers me. Sprinkle in some bad dealership treatment when I'm with my wife, and throw in a little "you cannot test drive this car" and that is my concern and why I wrote the letter .

Esprit9 said:

I 100% wanted the gen2 NSX, in nord grey, saddle interior and Tech/Sirius for $163,300. I went to LA Auto Show to see it in Valencia Red, sat in several of them (or just observed from a foot away) and see them in different colors. From that point things went south in several areas:
1) Some dealership treatment and awkward behavior,etc.. wasn't all that great (Other Acura dealerships were great)
2) Horrible residual and money factor
3) No ability to test drive the car AT ALL

I don't blame the decision to not buy the NSX on the dealerships... I guess I blame the Audi dealership that went above and beyond to make me feel special and to allow me to test drive a new R8, have an amazing residual and money factor and allow me to save over forty thousand dollars for the same priced car, etc..

My first and only choice was the NSX and I've always liked and respected the R8 from afar.. I can't explain it but driving the R8, along with my wife sitting in it....having the salesman ask my wife to start the R8, and have her hear the exhaust note was a major experience for her. Those little things count. I went home and all we could talk about was the R8. We fell in love with it and the NSX just wasn't so special anymore. Trust me... I've been waiting on the new NSX for a long time and never thought of another car.

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You didn't buy the R8 from the dealership who treated you so well.
No reward for that dealer's effort.
You bought from another dealership across the country.

You can't get NSX test drives at the moment and all buyers know that going in.
If that was a deal breaker, why bother running around to five Acura dealerships?

As I recall you were having some trouble getting a dealership to accept your Nord Grey order some time ago.
The Acura dealer wasn't too receptive at the time and didn't offer a competitive package then.
Something to do with the dealer worrying about financing and being stuck with a Nord Grey NSX if you cancelled.

It sounds like you needed financing to make your purchase and you had stated your concerns about NSX residual values etc.
Much less financial risk for you to buy an R8.
It's a mature marque, residual values are known and it sounds like you made the right decision for you.

I'm not trying to criticize your decision.
I'm only taking exception to the comments in your original post about bad dealerships, letter's to Honda etc. being the reason not to buy an NSX.

Sometimes posts can be used to vent after having an experience (or multiple experiences) that do not meet expectations.

Esprit9 said:

I'm one of those strange fellows that tries to get a great deal, concerned about excessive drop in value and I do shop around. I write off some of the lease during tax time but I'm not mega rich and can't just buy regardless of the numbers. Yes, the lease numbers are pitiful and if residual is true then the NSX will be worth $78K in 3 years. Yes that bothers me. Sprinkle in some bad dealership treatment when I'm with my wife, and throw in a little "you cannot test drive this car" and that is my concern and why I wrote the letter .

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Not sure there are any mega rich on the forum and I'm not one either.
I understand concerns about money.
Sounds to me like your decision was really all about the money side of the deal and the dealership issues were just aggravations.

Bricks and Bio said:

Sometimes posts can be used to vent after having an experience (or multiple experiences) that do not meet expectations.

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And rightly so Bricks.
Good therapy no?

But as you surmised earlier this was all about the OP's financial situation and not so much about dealerships.
Perhaps the Acura dealerships offered little and got little in return, but I feel for the Audi dealership who rolled out the red carpet and got nothing.

JD Cross said:

I'm not trying to criticize your decision.
I'm only taking exception to the comments in your original post about bad dealerships, letter's to Honda etc. being the reason not to buy an NSX.

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I was seconds away from pulling the trigger at Modesto Acura. It's local, they were doing MSRP... all was well... then two things happened... Thy refused to order Nord Grey and then presented the worst of the numbers with a .003XX money factor and sad residual. That was without test driving and some questionable treatment. I was in love with the NSX. As my journey continued in the following weeks my experiences were even worse.

Probably a dumb letter to write to the US headquarters and I'm sure a desk agent will probably toss it in the garbage can but who cares... My wife and I felt good about writing it. Nothing will change because of it and I hope the NSX sells like crazy and becomes the amazing car it was and I believe it is. If my NSX buying experience was more like the Audi experience I would probably spend more money and have an NSX ordered.

Maybe my original post should have been... "How the little things go a long way.." or.. "Bending over backwards for the customer still has it's place in America.." or "I never thought I would go from an NSX to an R8... How a special experience along with my current finances caused me to switch.." or something like that..

JD Cross said:

Perhaps the Acura dealerships offered little and got little in return, but I feel for the Audi dealership who rolled out the red carpet and got nothing.

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Boy... you're missing the point here JD.. Stevens Creek Audi did an amazing job building an experience for my wife and I around the R8 that truly got me to see the R8 in a whole different light.. It was fantastic.. unfortunately the numbers didn't work out but I was sold on the R8. Natick Audi over the phone was fantastic and worked out numbers that surpassed anything I've ever seen. Let the "Audi dealership got nothing" thing go. LIke I said.. you missed the point..

But.. they will be the first place we go when the '18Q5 shows up at dealer showrooms.

And yes... Venting helps...

Perhaps I am missing the point but I invite you to consider the other side of it:

Steven Creek paid someone to look after you, arrange a test drive and so on.
Racked up some miles on a new R8, spent time with you and your wife, working up a deal.
They incurred expenses to look after you.

And yes they did a great job selling Audi as a marque and an R8 as a car....... but for someone else.
You chose to buy elsewhere on price despite the great service given you by Stevens.
If you were the GM at Stevens how would you feel about you as a customer?

And the OP may go to the local Audi dealer for service so they may get some return for their effort.

then again, the fried seafood at Kelly's near the dealership where the car is being purchased is worth the trip so getting the car serviced in MA could be a worthwhile indulgance.

all kidding aside, I am a big fan of consumers acting in their best interest.

CA dealers imho are more likely to be looking for higher prices than some other places.

in such cases, the costs of shipping and the delay in gratification can be overcomed by lower overall costs.

Bricks and Bio said:

And the OP may go to the local Audi dealer for service so they may get some return for their effort.
then again, the fried seafood at Kelly's near the dealership where the car is being purchased is worth the trip so getting the car serviced in MA could be a worthwhile indulgance.
all kidding aside, I am a big fan of consumers acting in their best interest.
CA dealers imho are more likely to be looking for higher prices than some other places.
in such cases, the costs of shipping and the delay in gratification can be overcome by lower overall costs.

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Of course you are right Bricks, the OP should act in his own interest and he has.
And for my part, I'm kicking myself for posting on this thread.

I find Canadians to be very nice and committed to fair play

i feel I am an American and am always looking for some kind of win

JD Cross said:

I'll probably be seen as a troll here but I don't understand the OP's post.

If your post is to complain about treatment at dealerships I can understand that.
We've all had good and bad experiences at dealerships

If you really want a car sometimes you have to put up with less than ideal treatment at a dealership.
If you have to have a 488 don't expect the red carpet at the Ferrari dealership.
You put up with whatever is dished out and eventually you'll get one.
If that puts you off a 488 then I don't think you really want a 488.

Same with an NSX
I don't think the OP really wanted an NSX.
If he did he'd either have one in his garage or a steel brake optioned one on order.
There's 175+ out there for sale or a factory order at MSRP is available at many dealers.
A fumble by a dealer(s) is just a step in the process no?
Find another dealer and buy from them.
You're buying a car not the dealership.

The OP bought an Audi, fair enough.
But to blame the decision not to buy an NSX on a dealership(s) in my mind is not the whole story.

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I agree with the Ferrari comment and I was treated like crap by Lamborghini, so I walked into a Porsche dealership that wanted my business.
Acura is not Ferrari and this attitude is causing 150 cars to sit unsold. I've seen 3 in person that have been sitting since august.

If the dealer who gives me a test drive has a fair price I'll buy there. It doesn't have to be the absolute lowest price I can find. But if the price difference is much larger than a fair compensation for providing the test drive, you can't fault a customer for buying somewhere else. The issue of showrooming is a consequence of the independent-dealer business model that most car brands use. It's not a problem for Tesla.

So after the great experience at the local Audi dealer, did the OP present the offer from the far away dealer to see how close they would be willing come to their price? From the treatment that you apparently recieved, I think they should have been given that opportunity. Buying a 200K car is not the same as picking up a new toaster. A competent and helpful dealer can be priceless when issues arise. Sometimes there are gray areas when problems occur. The R8 is not an inexpensive or simple car. Money saved at purchase time will soon be forgotten when an expensive problem presents itself down the road.

Sometimes a too good to be true deal, is just that. The OP mentioned the car he's getting, and shipping across the country, had some test miles. At the least, I would have someone local eyeball the car carefully. A paint gauge would be a good thing to take along when doing this inspection. Maybe this dealer is wonderful and just felt like Santa. Or maybe they are taking a page from VW's corporate handbook. What the customer doesn't know won't hurt them. I personally wouldn't buy anything from these "clean diesel" assholes. They have demonstrated beyond a doubt, their respect for their customers and the environment.

The Audi lease deal the OP described was amazing. I think that is the beginning and end of this story.

Personally, when an "All New" car hits the market, I do not expect leasing to be a viable option at all, let alone something that amounts to a big discount / subsidy on the car (as is the case with OP's R8 deal).

The Acura lease offers on the NSX right now are not intended as marketing tools, but rather to check the box on a corporate policy that says "we will offer leases on all vehicles." Recall that the early Tesla leases (after a period where leasing was not an option at all) involved Elon Musk personally guaranteeing a minimum residual value.

Esprit9 said:

I 100% wanted the gen2 NSX, in nord grey, saddle interior and Tech/Sirius for $163,300. I

along with my wife sitting in it....having the salesman ask my wife to start the R8, and have her hear the exhaust note was a major experience for her.

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I can see quite a few dealers more or less blowing you off if you led with that's the color you would want to order. No dealer wants to touch that car. Valencia Red, 130R White, Berlina Black? Much safer car to order. If you put a deposit (which in CA is totally refundable), ordered the Nord Grey, then backed out before delivery...now that dealer is stuck with a low spec car in the absolute least desirable color.

Your Audi salesman must've honed his skills selling jewelry before. Selling to the wife (even though it's the husband who is buying) and getting her emotionally attached is one off the oldest tricks in the book. And what a great trick! Firing up what is essentially a naturally aspirated Lamborghini V10 is going to be a much more visceral experience than lighting off the NSX's much smaller engine getting muffled by turbos.

chrisn said:

The Audi lease deal the OP described was amazing. I think that is the beginning and end of this story.

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I agree. The more I look at them...the more amazing it is. Pretty much is a unicorn deal. I'm not sure what they're thinking. I mean didn't the second gen R8 just come out right about the same time as the new NSX? How can they be that desperate to move inventory already? Acura dealers have RLXs on the ground that have been collecting dust for maybe even over a year. And the lease rates on those still can't touch that Audi deal.

I like the Nord Grey. It's funny how tastes change over time. Apparently Imola was not super popular when it came out, judging by the number sold. Now there are numerous guys on this forum that would give their right nut to have one. Nord Grey certainly does not have the wow factor of Imola Orange, but it is a great stealth color. Maybe down the road it will command a premium in the used market because so few were sold new.

MasterNSXTech said:

Pretty much is a unicorn deal....

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I would say more Rhino vs unicorn deals as they are out there but not on every sports car make/model. You can get similar lease numbers on 911 Turbos and McLarens.... Even Corvettes have higher residuals. Like I said, some of the Acura salesmen were great. I just got scared. After both salesman and friends in the sports car world cringed when they heard about the residuals. The NSX will go from $160K to the $70'sK in 36 months... That spooked me. I'm not leasing a Chevy tahoe.. On one hand I have Acura salesman telling me the NSX will probably go up in price and trying to justify markups over MSRP, pay for dealership tools, "people right now are selling the NSX for $50k over MSRP", etc.. and other Acura salesman saying "yes... these are not good lease numbers and we hope it gets better", The amount of Gen2 NSX's quadrupled in inventory and now they are everywhere and few are buying, etc.. did scare be a bit but WAS NOT a main factor in the decision of not buying. I was willing to wait and purchase next year used or with a hope of better residuals.

Lease residuals are only a proxy for future value of high-volume cars with a long history and that don't typically sell at deep discounts to MSRP. The only fair statement about NSX resale value is "no one really knows." When faced with this reality, a bank will peg a conservatively low residual on the theory that the customer is not reallly getting screwed-- he will just buy out the car at lease termination for what everyone assumes will be below FMV at that time. Some people just like to lease, so they make that option available, but assume that few will take the deal.

In the OP's case, Audi is *NOT* saying/betting that R8 will be worth 71% of MSRP in three years. They are demonstrating by their actions that the car is not worth MSRP now. Still seems like a good deal, but you can't compare apples and oranges.

It's just math.

Nothing wrong with the consumer acting upon their own interest just as much as the dealer do for themselves.

However, don't praise one dealership for their friendliness and then go buy from another dealer because the price was better AND then expect all dealerships to cater to you when stuff like this happens all the time. This is why dealerships are the way they are because people who complain about customer service discard that factor and still buy from the best priced place they can get by shotgunning email/phone calls to every dealer.

Plenty people go and buy $50-$100 entrees at restaurants for the service and environment not because the actual entree had vital nutrients worth the extreme premium. Then you arbitrarily tip based on how you like the server. No one in America bats an eye when it comes to food, but when it comes to a car, everyone is a "stealership".

When it comes to buying brand new cars, and especially luxury/sports cars, there is nothing truly rational about the buy considering immediate depreciation and other factors. The extra money you saved or spent on xxxx dollars off msrp or markup is only going to get displaced on other luxurious items that you are privy to. So don't get so bent out of shape because you spent a little more than the next guy. It's all relative. Do your best to find the best price and pull the trigger.

Interesting to see how people base their expensive choices though. A test drive is very important and Acura should really allow proper test drives for the new NSX.

N Spec said:

However, don't praise one dealership for their friendliness and then go buy from another dealer because the price was better AND then expect all dealerships to cater to you when stuff like this happens all the time.

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The audi dealer did not have a non plus R8 in the color I wanted and tried hard to get me to buy the plus model I test drove but I told him from the beginning I could not afford the Plus. He was willing to take 2% off a build and would get the one I wanted from another dealer and do the same -2% deal (He was willing to take 10% off the one I test drove but it was still too much for me). I did shop around and let them know that and he was even honest enough to let me know that I would get more discount if I dealt with the dealership that had the car I wanted. He said they would be happy to help my wife out with a '18 Q5 when they hit the dealership.

Wow, that Acura lease seems terrible. Congrats on the R8, OP! You did what you had to do, and that's fine. In my case, I have a 17-year relationship with my dealer and their salesfolken. I generally get a fair deal (RLX Hybrid excepted, I paid the "me first tax", won't repeat that error) and so I'll probably buy there. They let me sit in their NSX and touch everything. No test drive, and I completely understood why, I wouldn't want it on my potential car, either.

Agree with the recommendation that Acura dealers be provided with the preproduction cars as demos instead of their being crushed. That'd get me to bite sooner. I've never purchased a car I couldn't test drive first.

N Spec said:

Nothing wrong with the consumer acting upon their own interest just as much as the dealer do for themselves.

However, don't praise one dealership for their friendliness and then go buy from another dealer because the price was better AND then expect all dealerships to cater to you when stuff like this happens all the time. This is why dealerships are the way they are because people who complain about customer service discard that factor and still buy from the best priced place they can get by shotgunning email/phone calls to every dealer.

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Thing here is that if the dealership is courteous, professional, and attentive, they get a chance at earning someone's business. Some customers are always going search far and wide for the best possible deal but many customers would take an adequate deal if it's in the ballpark and they like the people they're dealing with. That's the way things work for a lot of businesses. The business may not have the best price but if they treat people well and have competitive pricing they can be successful.

Car dealerships have been unpleasant to deal with since long before the internet allowed customers to shop prices nationally. The fact that it's easier for customers to comparison shop on price just means dealers have to be more aggressive on pricing, it doesn't mean that customer service should go out the window. All a dealership can do is put their best foot forward so they have the opportunity to make the sale. The dealership that can't give correct information on the product, is out of touch on price, is rude/dismissive and wastes the customer's time is not going to get the opportunity. Not only that, but when you're talking luxury cars and exotics they may turn off the customer to the entire brand.

Plenty people go and buy $50-$100 entrees at restaurants for the service and environment not because the actual entree had vital nutrients worth the extreme premium. Then you arbitrarily tip based on how you like the server. No one in America bats an eye when it comes to food, but when it comes to a car, everyone is a "stealership".

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That's because when you go to a nice restaurant, the server isn't trying to coerce you into buying a more expensive dish. They don't purposefully make you sit and wait in order to erode your negotiating resolve. They don't present you with financial sleights of hand to get you to pay more. The most coercing you usually get at a restaurant is that they try to convince you to get dessert.

In the case of Espirit 9, he gave Acura multiple opportunities to earn his business and for a few reasons they were unable to. He then gave the local Audi dealer a shot, and they gave him a nice enough experience that he decided to buy a R8 instead. At that point it came down to whether they were able to offer a competitive deal for what he wanted. They weren't able to come close enough, so he went elsewhere. But they got a strong shot at getting the sale, and he may buy from them in the future. Furthermore, anyone reading here and thinking about a R8 or any other Audi might think more positively about Stevens Creek Audi as a result.

For Acura, I can totally see why dealers aren't allowed NSX test drives but bottom line is that test drives are a big influencer when it comes to selling cars. There are multiple cars in this class competing for customers and several of them will allow test drives. There are also at least 3 players that are offering far more favorable lease terms so it would behoove Acura to get on board there.