Dealers combing their dusty databases to try to move 2018 cars

Anyone who got a GT hit the friggin jackpot, as the resale numbers on those once the restrictions from Ford expire (I think 2 years from purchase) are expected to be Rocky Mountain High.

As usual the US customers got a deal. Shmee mentioned in a video this week that a well spec'd GT in the UK will be 600,000 pounds (roughly $812,000 dollars at the current exchange rates).

Back to the NSX, I can't believe the dealership service folks are too happy either. I just had my summer wheels and tires put back on. The tech said he had only done 1 oil change so far and that was last year for a customer who drives his a lot. He added that they just aren't needing any repairs (good news for me).

About a year ago, I decided that I was going to sell off my 7 car collection of old unused classics and buy a 2005 Ford GT.... I never really got around to selling any cars, then in November of 17, I saw my first NSX at a car show and I wondered, "What the hell is that? What an amazing car......" I had no idea Acura had built something like this, and my initial impression was "I'll bet it's a $100,000 car and I could sell a couple of my cars and buy one......" I got home and started research. Damn, it's $200K???? No way I can afford that. But after days of incessant google searching, I began to get the picture of the car's image problem, and became aware of the $30K rebate...... Long story short, I got lucky and sold a 61 Corvette for good money, used that as a large downpayment, so I pulled the trigger when I found a deal at $43K off sticker...... No regrets. I thought the question about what would the NSX be worth if it had a Ferrari badge on it was a great question. Answer is A LOT....... It would be the motor trend car of the year...... But it's not a Ferrari, and Ferrari has earned it's stripes through the years.I have no idea what Honda/Acura will do with this car long term. I can't see them making additional massive investments in the program, but we'll have to wait and see what happens......

Bricks and Bio said:

I can't believe the dealership service folks are too happy either. I just had my summer wheels and tires put back on. The tech said he had only done 1 oil change so far and that was last year for a customer who drives his a lot. He added that they just aren't needing any repairs (good news for me).

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one would hope, and expect, a brand spanking new HALO car from Honda wouldn't be needing any repairs...

Bricks and Bio said:

Back to the NSX, I can't believe the dealership service folks are too happy either. I just had my summer wheels and tires put back on. The tech said he had only done 1 oil change so far and that was last year for a customer who drives his a lot. He added that they just aren't needing any repairs (good news for me).

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Had mine in for its first oil change yesterday. Just over 400 miles on it yet well over a year old as it sat at the dealer waiting for a home. It was the first oil change they’ve done and first one they’ve worked on. Race ramps looked brand new. $490. The 9 oil drain points are insane (7 and 2 hidden they said). Too many points for leaks.

Hmmm. Mine sat for over a year on the dealer floor as well. Now it has 1800 miles.

I guess I was waiting for the car to tell me it was time for an oil change. The car will give me a message, right?

Maybe I should go ahead and schedule it.

Using the thumb wheel on the right side of the steering wheel, scroll through the display options on the central screen and you will see the % oil life remaining. I am at 30% after around 6500 miles and the car 1 3/4 years on the road. The tech said Acura recommends going by what the car tells you.

My tech mentioned that getting the oil filter out is done through the trunk and they have a special tool that avoids drips onto the trunk.

Bricks and Bio said:

At this point, we shouldn't have an expectation of the car becoming a sales success.

Remember they have Turd running the show, who didn't have enough common sense to put a nose lift in the car.

Improving it will cost dollars and I would have to believe the bean counters at Honda are fed up with the project, and won't green light spending money on this vs a car that will move in volume.

The Ford GT is a true unicorn. It stayed true to the heritage, won on the track and is the only US (Canadian made) car that isn't embarrassing to own for the super rich crowd.

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You are absolutely correct when you say that it will cost them money to continue to develop this car into its full potential, but believing that they are not willing to put make that investment is where I believe you are mistaken. For the first time in 20+ years Acura and Honda executives were both present dealer meetings. Preaching overarching brand symmetry. Honda kept boasting how much they support the vision that Acura has for the next 10 years. That is a HUGE deal.

When you say the GT stuck to its heritage, the NSX did as well. They made a bargain of a car that has revolutionary technology for its era at a fraction of the price of the competition. Whether people appreciate the advancements in technology that were made and how well they were applied to the car comes down to personal perspective.

I believe they did a fantastic job but possibly fell just a tiny bit short of the current performance benchmarks that exist in the highly competitive super-car market today. For a new car to come into that market and make some noise and have steady and consistent sales you need to be better than the competition, not just comparable. To me this is the only place you could say the NSX fell short of it’s mark and even then I don’t know of many if any owners or potential clients that walked away from the car after driving it and said it was too slow.

The biggest benefit of having the car stand out on paper is the fact that many of the supercar sales today are determined by the on paper statistics. This was overlooked initially but is not something that is overly difficult to fix. While I’m no engineer I know that they have some of the finest ones working on this car and it should not be overly expensive or time consuming to take the horsepower from 573 to 650ish.

Here is the question I would propose to you, If Acura made this car the best performing and most insane car on the market, would people have paid the premium for it? I see so many claiming that $200,000 (common exaggeration) is too much for a Honda and yet asking for much much more from the car. The best possible comparison for this car is the Porsche 918 spyder in terms of technology and driving experience. The NSX has 573 horsepower, weights 3,800 pounds, does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, and starts at $156,000. The 918 has 887 horsepower, weighs in at just under 3,700 pounds, does 0-60 in 2.5, and started at $847,975.

If Acura gave us comparable options, would it not be reasonable that the car would cost $600,000 or well over that? If it had 918 performance it would be a bargain at $600K or even $700K.

Great post. You make some good points.

I’m actually fine with the current performance level. It’s already too easy to get in trouble driving on the street. Of course more power is always welcome.

I just want seats that adjust up and down, tires that aren’t downright dangerous, blindspot sensors, and a targa roof please.

Who is Turd?

Ted Klaus

dshinke21 said:

You are absolutely correct when you say that it will cost them money to continue to develop this car into its full potential, but believing that they are not willing to put make that investment is where I believe you are mistaken. For the first time in 20+ years Acura and Honda executives were both present dealer meetings. Preaching overarching brand symmetry. Honda kept boasting how much they support the vision that Acura has for the next 10 years. That is a HUGE deal.

When you say the GT stuck to its heritage, the NSX did as well. They made a bargain of a car that has revolutionary technology for its era at a fraction of the price of the competition. Whether people appreciate the advancements in technology that were made and how well they were applied to the car comes down to personal perspective.

I believe they did a fantastic job but possibly fell just a tiny bit short of the current performance benchmarks that exist in the highly competitive super-car market today. For a new car to come into that market and make some noise and have steady and consistent sales you need to be better than the competition, not just comparable. To me this is the only place you could say the NSX fell short of it’s mark and even then I don’t know of many if any owners or potential clients that walked away from the car after driving it and said it was too slow.

The biggest benefit of having the car stand out on paper is the fact that many of the supercar sales today are determined by the on paper statistics. This was overlooked initially but is not something that is overly difficult to fix. While I’m no engineer I know that they have some of the finest ones working on this car and it should not be overly expensive or time consuming to take the horsepower from 573 to 650ish.

Here is the question I would propose to you, If Acura made this car the best performing and most insane car on the market, would people have paid the premium for it? I see so many claiming that $200,000 (common exaggeration) is too much for a Honda and yet asking for much much more from the car. The best possible comparison for this car is the Porsche 918 spyder in terms of technology and driving experience. The NSX has 573 horsepower, weights 3,800 pounds, does 0-60 in 2.9 seconds, and starts at $156,000. The 918 has 887 horsepower, weighs in at just under 3,700 pounds, does 0-60 in 2.5, and started at $847,975.

If Acura gave us comparable options, would it not be reasonable that the car would cost $600,000 or well over that? If it had 918 performance it would be a bargain at $600K or even $700K.

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dshinke: You make some good/valid points however
the bulk of potential owners don't see it as a BARGAIN or the sales wouldn't be sluggish.

No doubt the NSX is a FANTASTIC car that should have been priced under the 150k price point (loaded with all options). The general consensus amongst enthusiasts is sales would have been brisk at that level. No matter how you slice it there is a real badge snobbery that exists.
You have so many super-car options in the 175-215k range the car got lost in it. Also hybrid technology is not revolutionary at this stage any longer.

Full EV is the future. The new Tesla roadster for 250k is going to be insane and sales will be solid (already deposits on 1500 cars). 1.8 sec 0-60 and 650 miles per charge. This seems to be the real bargain apples to apples.

Bricks and Bio said:

Back to the NSX, I can't believe the dealership service folks are too happy either. I just had my summer wheels and tires put back on. The tech said he had only done 1 oil change so far and that was last year for a customer who drives his a lot. He added that they just aren't needing any repairs (good news for me).

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No we’re not happy. Over two years into this now, I think I’d rather have spent the $120k+ investment on Bitcoin. Get all the dealers in a time machine and go back to early 2016, I think more than half the dealers would probably pass on the program. I just loved replacing my new alignment rack with another one that was “NSX compliant” even though my old one was totally capable of the job.

I am a big enough store that I’ll maybe break even in about two more years (maybe sooner if the ‘19 model gets the hype going again). But some stores that still had their original coverage unit sitting on the showroom deep into 2017? They’re losing, and losing bad on this car.

MasterNSXTech said:

No we’re not happy. Over two years into this now, I think I’d rather have spent the $120k+ investment on Bitcoin. Get all the dealers in a time machine and go back to early 2016, I think more than half the dealers would probably pass on the program. I just loved replacing my new alignment rack with another one that was “NSX compliant” even though my old one was totally capable of the job.

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But realistically how many $400 oil changes were dealers expecting to do? This is not the type of car most owners will rack up high miles so a major service probably wouldn’t be done until two years in for most owners.

AZLAMBO said:

dshinke: You make some good/valid points however
the bulk of potential owners don't see it as a BARGAIN or the sales wouldn't be sluggish.

No doubt the NSX is a FANTASTIC car that should have been priced under the 150k price point (loaded with all options). The general consensus amongst enthusiasts is sales would have been brisk at that level. No matter how you slice it there is a real badge snobbery that exists.
You have so many super-car options in the 175-215k range the car got lost in it. Also hybrid technology is not revolutionary at this stage any longer.

Full EV is the future. The new Tesla roadster for 250k is going to be insane and sales will be solid (already deposits on 1500 cars). 1.8 sec 0-60 and 650 miles per charge. This seems to be the real bargain apples to apples.

Click to expand...

Cars certainly would have flown out of dealerships had the car stayed exactly the same and been priced $100,000 to $150,000 fully loaded when released. The car is an incredible vehicle at it's current price, the issue with sales not being as expected is a combination of issues I think we all have agreed on. The short version is that clients were underwhelmed with the car after waiting a long time for them to release. Combine this with the fact that it was priced higher than many assumed it would be and lots of cars being produced early you can see how we got to where we are today.

If they did indeed get the price so incredibly wrong, then what say you about the Polestar One starting at $150,000? 600 horsepower hybrid car that doesn't look nearly as gorgeous as the NSX. The NSX may have missed the current market when it comes to price according to many, but it seems to have set the standard for the next generation of hybrid supercars to come. Porsche, Mclaren, and Ferrari were the earliest adopters of the hybrid technology into the supercar realm, but what have they done with it since then? Those are all still million dollar cars that are obtainable by an even smaller percentage of people than the NSX. Acura was the first to create a car for this market. They certainly have the head start over the Audi, Mercedes, Nissan, and Volvo (Polestar) brands that its only a matter of time before they release something to capture this market. EV may be the way of the future but the road to change in the automotive world is long and has a 25mph speed limit. Hybrid is a key stop on that journey and is here for longer than most think.

Let's not forget all the brands mentioned before plus Lamborghini have yet to make any sort of high performance or supercar that is a hybrid. When they do I would imagine they will be at least $150k if not starting at $200k or more! Polestar one is certainly not something that screams supercar to me and that has the $150k price tag. It's going to be a long time before Lamborghini and Ferrari will give up the gasoline engine completely. Those brand's were created entirely around the experience those magnificent engines provided. That change to EV will be very slow. They will hold on to the hybrid's and any part of their brand identity of the gasoline engine as long as they possibly can.

I also think that the Tesla Roadster will be a successful car and sell well and is a perfect example for my point's that marketing and performance numbers on paper alone can that the market today buys cars based off of the numbers on paper. However speed is only a fraction of the experience that makes a supercar super.

My hope is to determine what can be done to bring the excitement to the NSX. I would be incredibly shocked if Acura does a dramatic price drop for the new models. This would be a complete nightmare and I believe would make the entire situation much worse. Current owners would be even further alienated after taking massive losses, especially the most loyal and earliest adopters who have already been hurt once by the incentives. Acura has set the bar pretty high with the NSX. What can they do to raise it before others even have the chance to get their first entry to the table?

This new NSX has more in common with the original the more and more I think about it. It will take some time but eventually it will be appreciated for how it set the bar and changed the entire industry, just like it did in 1991.

RSO 34 said:

But realistically how many $400 oil changes were dealers expecting to do? This is not the type of car most owners will rack up high miles so a major service probably wouldn’t be done until two years in for most owners.

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I’ve done a few so far. I’ve done plenty of other work on them too. And it’s not very profitable work. Not by a long shot. A master tech can produce a lot more money for the store just working on MDXs or whatever.

But the real point was that we were sold a bill of goods because they said we’d be selling cars with huge ADMs packed on, which would pay for all the new equipment in our first “two or three cars” that we delivered. I’ve delivered quite a bit more than that and I’ve maybe got half of it paid for at this point.

MasterNSXTech said:

I’ve done a few so far. I’ve done plenty of other work on them too. And it’s not very profitable work. Not by a long shot. A master tech can produce a lot more money for the store just working on MDXs or whatever.

But the real point was that we were sold a bill of goods because they said we’d be selling cars with huge ADMs packed on, which would pay for all the new equipment in our first “two or three cars” that we delivered. I’ve delivered quite a bit more than that and I’ve maybe got half of it paid for at this point.

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Huge ADMs?

Man did they miss the mark. I think the Civic type R was able to command over sticker.

MC

RSO 34 said:

But realistically how many $400 oil changes were dealers expecting to do? This is not the type of car most owners will rack up high miles so a major service probably wouldn’t be done until two years in for most owners.

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The oil change cost is only $250, and I got my first one for free.

dshinke21 said:

The biggest benefit of having the car stand out on paper is the fact that many of the supercar sales today are determined by the on paper statistics. This was overlooked initially but is not something that is overly difficult to fix. While I’m no engineer I know that they have some of the finest ones working on this car and it should not be overly expensive or time consuming to take the horsepower from 573 to 650ish.

Click to expand...

you've made some good points earlier mate, but just for fun i'll ask you a question or two. as you said above, if Honda has some of the finest engineers in the world working on this car and it was so easy to take that 573 number and turn it into 650, don't you think they'd have done it already?

dshinke21 said:

Porsche, Mclaren, and Ferrari were the earliest adopters of the hybrid technology into the supercar realm, but what have they done with it since then?

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what have they needed to do with it since then? they were the first, knocked it well out of the park, and got all the recognition and good press for doing so. not that any of those brands needed it. the Italians, Germans, and Brits used the futuristic tech in ways that were revolutionary. the NSX came to the party late (not the Hypercar soiree of course), and tried to emulate and build on that bandwagon, then got it's butt kicked in performance by those very brand's models which weren't using any of that fancy tech. which for obvious reasons made a lot of people ask, "what was the point then?" all in all, that has to be embarrassing for Honda.

the NSX is a very nice car. but it seems Honda missed the mark in a lot of ways. market, performance, price, etc.

AZLAMBO said:

dshinke: You make some good/valid points however
the bulk of potential owners don't see it as a BARGAIN or the sales wouldn't be sluggish.

You have so many super-car options in the 175-215k range the car got lost in it. Also hybrid technology is not revolutionary at this stage any longer.

Click to expand...

exactly. if anyone really thought this car was a bargain Porsche 918, or a revolutionary Supercar, Acura would have sold heaps more than 5 last month... :redface:

It’s a 2009 GTR performance car for 2017 570s money. And the carbon fiber “options” were just silly. But I still love mine.

MC

DocL said:

The oil change cost is only $250, and I got my first one for free.

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Check post 128 above - someone got charged $490

RSO 34 said:

Check post 128 above - someone got charged $490

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The service prices are anything but flat.

I believe the owner who paid $490 lives in an area where a 7 figure income is "so what".

My in City Chicago dealer is at $375.

fastaussie said:

you've made some good points earlier mate, but just for fun i'll ask you a question or two. as you said above, if Honda has some of the finest engineers in the world working on this car and it was so easy to take that 573 number and turn it into 650, don't you think they'd have done it already?

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Car business 101. Always keep something held back so you can release a more powerful version a couple years after the base car car comes out.

nsx878 said:

The hybrid components are not there for fuel economy, they are there for added performance. a 0-60 time of 2.9 secs would not be achievable with out the electric motors.

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Well, the R35 GT-R manages 2.8-2.9s to 60MPH with no batteries, and it's been doing this since 2012. The Porsche 911 Turbo S is even faster, at 2.6s, also with no batteries. Unfortunately, there is no metric in terms of speed that the NSX excels at. It can't claim bragging rights to 60, 1/4 mile, lap times, lateral grip or top speed. People buy cars in this price range to either have the best performance metric in a category (or more) or for brand prestige. In this regard, the NSX unfortunately fails. Now if all the hybrid gear made it ridiculously fast we would be looking at different monthly sales numbers from Honda...

Bricks and Bio said:

The service prices are anything but flat.

I believe the owner who paid $490 lives in an area where a 7 figure income is "so what".

My in City Chicago dealer is at $375.

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Oil change prices will be all over the place due to labor rates and what labor time the particular dealer wants to charge. Realistically, it’s a two hour job. But maybe some dealers only want to charge one hour. There’s appropriately $120 in materials. Some dealers out there are under $100/hr and some are over $200/hr.