I agree, curves and twisties are more fun. Anyone can plant it and go straight fast. It's an amazing car.
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Dealers combing their dusty databases to try to move 2018 cars
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Let's face it, Acura reset the price with the $30,000 incentive, now they need to reprice the car, make it the experience it needs to be, make the car promote the brand, and every owner be an ambassador. I still take great pride in my 02NSX, an am constantly singing its praises, whenever I can. When people ask me what other cars I own, and which I like better, my response is always the same..............they're different, and I love them both. I ask them if it's fair to like one of their children, better than another one, that usually works!!!
I got a ton of calls after The incentive expired. Most were calls from dealers I had contacted months earlier. And those cars were highly optioned and who knows how long they were sitting on the showroom floor. Pricing was the biggest snafu by far. I don’t mind buying expensive cars from from brands that aren’t known for churning out six figure cars ala Chevy ZR1 BUT 200k was crazy.
MC
The car is fabulous. Have driven and ridden in it. It’s absolutely “ridonculous” as far as performance goes. My opinion is that given the experience with the incentives, what will move this car is value for dollar, ie, price. It’s as simple as that. People in the market know about the incentive from last year. Informed customers are not going to pay even close to MSRP. I sure as hell won’t. I’ll wait for incentives, or I’ll buy a lightly used 2017 when I’m finally ready to buy (another year or two at this rate, I’m in no hurry).
Or I’ll just get a green AMG GTR, my current supercar hotness.
Or I’ll just get a green AMG GTR, my current supercar hotness.
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I totally agree that the customer experience between ordering and delivery and then after delivery has been lacking to say the least.
Here is an example of a local Ferrari dealer cultivating their market with an awesome track day they put on themselves as fas as I can tell.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/upcoming-track-days.574628/
I did a track day sponsored by Ferrari of Washington. Good time and well run. Nice to connect to other owners. Maybe a dozen cars in three groups... and only two in the red group so lots of track time! The track was the weakest part of the event so dialed it way back and enjoyed the day (new track south of Fredericksburg). I didn’t stick around to the end and missed the champagne toast. Customer appreciation!
I agree...... With $30K rebates and deep dealer discounts the cars sold briskly. At $141K for a moderately equipped car, I felt it was a supercar bargain. I have noticed that most of the dealer ordered 2018's have MSRP's mostly in the mid $170K range.... Maybe with a little dealer discount they might have a chance to sell a few, but there are still a LOT of low mile 2017's out there for decent prices. I have yet to see a used one sell for under $130K, and most of them offered for sale in the $130's are base low option cars. I doubt Acura/Honda will offer incentives again, as they are not building enough cars that need to be cleared out.
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I too was really disappointed with Acura's ridiculous asking price to tour the factory..... I got an email inviting me to come visit the factory, and I thought , "wow, this would be great......." and then I click on the link, and see that they want to milk me thousands of dollars to come take a 4 hour tour of the factory. Bullshit..... I just ponied up a LARGE amount of dollars to buy their flagship car and they feel the need to milk me???? No thanks.... I can understand a higher cost for the track time to cover wear and tear, fuel, track time, instructor, insurance, but thousands of dollars to walk through a tiny plant???? They really missed the boat here.....
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That a cute excuse and is rubbish. That reason alone doesn't account for 5 units in April. The MSRP is the problem. Lower the price, bring back incentives, or build a cheaper variant without the hybrid nonsense. Type R and Convertible variant won't save the day because these units will cost even more on a car that is overpriced.
What may help is to take cost out of the car. Put the next gen TT V6 on this car, get rid of hybrid AWD. Instead, use E supercharger for torque fill or get rid of turbos all together and bring back a high revving Naturally Aspirated engine.
Some of you won't like it because you think more power is the answer. I disagree. Cost cutting is needed to save the car or it will soon be out of production. At current sales rate on a car so early in its life cycle, it is very difficult to make a business case to invest in variants when they know they missed their mark. Its a Honda, peeps aren't going to pay $160K+. Cost reduction is needed and some level of de-contenting on the vehicle is welcomed if it delivers a more pure driving experience via weight reduction and getting rid of green technology. Kill 2 birds with one stone.
fastaussie
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at this point i think every excuse in the book has been used, and then a few more invented...
I agree with the fact that MSRP was the major issue in low sales. Honda miscalculated their ability to penetrate a highly competitive and saturated high end supercar market. Once they repriced the car with the $30K rebate, the cars moved. I'd think 85 cars a month would be considered a success for a low production Halo car. Adding to the problem was that many dealers "drank the Koolaid" thinking people would run to the dealerships to pay $200K for the cars all loaded up with carbon fiber. I'd think the answer would be for Honda to permanently drop the price of the car to a base MSRP of $125-130K..... From a depreciation point of view I hope that doesn't happen. Hard to see many sales of the car at the current MSRP's. I do NOT agree with the idea that all the hybrid "nonsense" should be removed from the car.... It is all this "nonsense" that makes the car not only unique, but uniquely NSX. The only other cars out there that have similar technology are multi-million dollar cars (Porsche 918 for example)Honda had a vision of what a supercar should be in the 21st century. The hybrid components are not there for fuel economy, they are there for added performance. a 0-60 time of 2.9 secs would not be achievable with out the electric motors. Battery and electric motor technology is coming, like it or not. The next gen mid engine Corvette is rumored to be eventually outfitted with electric motors in the front. You have to take the NSX as is..... If you want to be different, buy it, if not, move on..... The car is fast enough, looks like it should be in a James Bond movie, we hope will have reliability, and it's cost of ownership is reasonable compared to the other cars out there.More horsepower could be achieved, but how much faster does it need to be? You can't fully exploit what it has now on the street..... more displacement, bigger turbos. Honda is not going to undo all the hybrid platform, it works great.... it's amazing, quite frankly, and I appreciate the time, thought and effort they put into this car to make it truly unique....... It seems to me that as more and more people are exposed to the car and have actually driven it, their tunes are changing. At first most people don't know what to think of it, but after driving it and spending more time in the car, they start to get the picture. Case in point, watch this video...... I think it is a fair, accurate and unbiased opinion of the car. It's a little long, but listen to his comments about the car throughout, especially in the end. ]Not a car for everyone, but I'm keeping mine......Hmmmmm..... For some reason I am not able to see the video? all I have is a black square on my post? Anybody know a fix for this??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwkUHSt35vE
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fastaussie
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but there's no way Honda is going to drop the price to the $125k to $130k range. we all know that...
Probably not...... but didn't giving the $30K rebate essentially do the same thing and have the same effect? $156K MSRP less $30K is $126K + options. (obviously) I suppose it's more about accounting. The cars are reported as being sold at retail, less dealer discount, which makes sales look better on paper, then the rebate is buried in the financials as an expense...... But the rebate was effective in helping dealers to clear out the large unsold 17' inventory, with only a handful of new cars left. As Honda wants it to be an order only car, I doubt that Honda will come to the rescue of dealers who order cars for their showroom floors this time around. In the beginning, I think Honda put Acura dealers in a spot where it was order one now or lose the opportunity in the future, which created the big inventory on floors across the country. It does appear that prices are holding. Most people who have them seem to be able to hang onto the car and absorb the first wave of depreciation. If sales slow dramatically, it's better for those who have cars now.....
Knowing the incentives that were given to move the 2017s, I have to admit that I would never purchase a new one at the current pricing. But more importantly, I understand that hybrid is the future but I'm a creature of the past and know how long to expect from old fashioned technology. I have been driving my '96 to work the past week with spring finally upon us and have put over 500 miles this week as I approach 165,000 miles including 13,000+ track miles. It has the original motor and tranny and I know I can have an oil change done and keep driving without much worries.
I have no idea how long hybrid/battery components will last or their replacement cost. Will it cost the equivalent of a good used car to replace such items in the future and how often? My car is 22 years old now so with the new one what will need to be replaced over those same 22 years and 165,000 miles?
As for tracking the NSX like I enjoy, I can replace all rotors and pads after 4-6 track days and street mileage in between for less than $1000 in parts. The same amount of days in the new nsx will cost approximately $14,000.
I realize you need to pay to play but the cost of play of the new NSX has made it impractical for most original NSX owners who have gotten used to driving it long and hard without much fear of maintenance costs. I am very curious as to the costs to maintain and replace hybrid/battery parts in the new NSX over a similar time frame as my ownership of my '96.
I have no idea how long hybrid/battery components will last or their replacement cost. Will it cost the equivalent of a good used car to replace such items in the future and how often? My car is 22 years old now so with the new one what will need to be replaced over those same 22 years and 165,000 miles?
As for tracking the NSX like I enjoy, I can replace all rotors and pads after 4-6 track days and street mileage in between for less than $1000 in parts. The same amount of days in the new nsx will cost approximately $14,000.
I realize you need to pay to play but the cost of play of the new NSX has made it impractical for most original NSX owners who have gotten used to driving it long and hard without much fear of maintenance costs. I am very curious as to the costs to maintain and replace hybrid/battery parts in the new NSX over a similar time frame as my ownership of my '96.
RSO34, GREAT POST!!!! Your story of your 96' with 165K miles is inspiring. You are the epitome of the true NSX enthusiast. I'm envious as I approach 1000 miles on my Gen 2, I still feel guilt putting miles on it..... Something I need to figure out how to get over. Much like the original NSX, the Gen 2 car is also built and meant to be driven. Of course, even with the deep discounts, the cars were expensive, and high mileage will ultimately devalue the car. I wish I felt like I could drive it 10K miles a year, but we'll see, life is short. I thought about the batteries and electric motor costs, and if I am correct, the hybrid parts are warrantied for 7 years. This is great, but if a guy loves the car enough to keep it longer than 7 years, then what?? It's an unknown, at this point, but certainly a valid question.Maybe you just have to keep the car for 6 years, sell it and move on?? Or maybe the batteries will last 20 years? I do not have those answers....... Further research required.With respect to brakes, I toiled about whether or not to step up to the CCB's. First, cars with iron brakes were somewhat rare, and all were relatively low option cars. I have over 200 days on track experience, and felt I'd eventually have the car on the track. The rapid wear of the CCB's on track concerned me, but in the end I opted for the CCB's. Partly for resale value, partly because I felt a 191 MPH car out to have the best brakes money can buy, and sadly, because the red calipers looked so damn good. I was also enticed by the significant reduction in unsprung weight, which is really only worthwhile tracking the car at its limits..... I have heard that the wear on the CCB's is primarily in the pads and not so much in the rotors???? Someone correct me if I'm wrong? If this is true, then perhaps a $900-1000 cost vsfull replacement including rotors?And yes, I can see how the original owners got priced out of the market. As has been said hundreds of times, Honda just overpriced the car from the beginning...... Anyway, thanks for your inspiring post.......
I drive all my cars long and hard! I generally have 3 cars that I drive regularly at any given time. Over the years I have traded in an S Class Mercedes with 325,000 miles and picked up an AMG on which I put 250,000 miles while also driving an E Class 4 Matic for 235,000 miles which is now being driving by my daughter for college and was replaced with a new E class last August that now has 20,000 miles on it along with a 2011 MDX with 188,000 miles.........
I drive a lot and my cars don't get babied. But out of all the cars my only one with a major mechanical failure was the S Class that blew a head gasket at 265,000 miles. My AMG is still on the road locally with original motor/tranny racking up more miles.
I could predict maintenance costs on all of them and even do some of the work but the new NSX is an unknown and dealers have to maintain for now so that makes it difficult to justify with the amount of driving I do.
I drive a lot and my cars don't get babied. But out of all the cars my only one with a major mechanical failure was the S Class that blew a head gasket at 265,000 miles. My AMG is still on the road locally with original motor/tranny racking up more miles.
I could predict maintenance costs on all of them and even do some of the work but the new NSX is an unknown and dealers have to maintain for now so that makes it difficult to justify with the amount of driving I do.
That's the saddest part of this. So many times we've seen the whole "sales of the current model do not justify updates for a new model," especially from Japanese companies and especially from Honda. Honda is more likely to either a) be happy selling maybe 80-100 cars a year of the exact same car for the next 9 years, or b) write this whole thing off altogether, instead of improving the car and improving the price point to really move units and give the customer what they want.
The chance of a Type-R is nil at this point, or at least the chance of one that is purchasable by the customer. The fans wanted a lighter weight, de-electrified car but that would be too embarrassing for Honda. Convertible simply not going to happen.
Eh, that's a bit unfair, to be honest.
In this logic, many cars should've been priced alot lower just because the car maker makes lot of other mass produced cars (Ford, Chevy, Nissan, etc.)
That's not to say the price is relatively high for the market and as I'm sure many have already said here...its biggest downside (aside from the weight complaint) is the Acura badge. People just don't want to pay that much for a "honda"
The new NSX is a dedicated platform/car and no other Honda is remote like it performance/styling wise (some parts bin sharing is also slightly disappointing though).
I think this is a similar parallel to the new Ford GT. Again, it's a halo car on a 2nd revival and much more expensive than the other Ford products.
Except in Ford's case, the price is so high and the car is so exclusive that only a super tiny fraction of the society can even have a chance of ownership. Whereas the NSX is still attainable for a good amount of society if they work/save/invest hard.
I've put in many hours/years and now am earning a healthy income...I can realistically own a NSX if I choose to and not have it as a completely foolish financial decision. Even though it is very expensive for a "honda" I can see its appeal and its unique-ness and honestly I think its a bit under-appreciated and I am very excited to hopefully own in the not too distant future. (student loans come first though for now...)
A 2nd gen Ford GT is completely out of the question for me...and even though it is an amazing car, because of its inaccessibility I feel like it's not nearly as impactful. Cars like these will have more impact on bedroom walls than the real world imo.....
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What would it’s price be with a prancing horse on the steering wheel? Or the Audi rings or raging bull? $250, 300k? Soon each will tout their version of the same thing and ask a premium. Heritage. But theirs will have spider versions baked in.
And price was/is an issue - can’t launch a halo car and expect people to pay a premium just because. So here we are.
Perception, expectation, and emotion at play. Mostly from no direct experience, as others have said.
I hope it’s the new 918. Unloved at first then folks realized how special it is.
People come up with ideas what it should be or they are told what it is. And most of it is negative. In reality it’s stunning. I’m very happy with my decision and I plan on enjoying it. No second guessing here. And I think it has plenty of power... passed a couple cars recently and must have hit 55.
As for power, weight, lap times, etc... I understand bragging rights, but as discussed on another thread here most can’t get 6 or 7/10th out of its potential. All these modern super cars cars are insanely capable. Find the right road or track and have fun. I’ll be in the twisty parts.
And price was/is an issue - can’t launch a halo car and expect people to pay a premium just because. So here we are.
Perception, expectation, and emotion at play. Mostly from no direct experience, as others have said.
I hope it’s the new 918. Unloved at first then folks realized how special it is.
People come up with ideas what it should be or they are told what it is. And most of it is negative. In reality it’s stunning. I’m very happy with my decision and I plan on enjoying it. No second guessing here. And I think it has plenty of power... passed a couple cars recently and must have hit 55.
As for power, weight, lap times, etc... I understand bragging rights, but as discussed on another thread here most can’t get 6 or 7/10th out of its potential. All these modern super cars cars are insanely capable. Find the right road or track and have fun. I’ll be in the twisty parts.
I think the same thing when I look at the Ford GT. It's a $500,000 Ford the same people that scoff at the $200,000 ($156,000) for a Honda (Acura) don't bat an eye at the GT. Both excellent cars in their respective markets. This car is an incredible machine and is grossly underappreciated for what it can do. Always remember this is just the beginning. They have been out of the supercar world for 12 years, I have all the faith in the world in those that work behind the scenes to maximize the potential that this car has.
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At this point, we shouldn't have an expectation of the car becoming a sales success.
Remember they have Turd running the show, who didn't have enough common sense to put a nose lift in the car.
Improving it will cost dollars and I would have to believe the bean counters at Honda are fed up with the project, and won't green light spending money on this vs a car that will move in volume.
The Ford GT is a true unicorn. It stayed true to the heritage, won on the track and is the only US (Canadian made) car that isn't embarrassing to own for the super rich crowd.
Remember they have Turd running the show, who didn't have enough common sense to put a nose lift in the car.
Improving it will cost dollars and I would have to believe the bean counters at Honda are fed up with the project, and won't green light spending money on this vs a car that will move in volume.
The Ford GT is a true unicorn. It stayed true to the heritage, won on the track and is the only US (Canadian made) car that isn't embarrassing to own for the super rich crowd.
fastaussie
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and even at that ludicrous price, it still had a huge list of highly disappointed prospective owners. i know of several prior model GT owners myself who didn't make the cut.
which just goes to prove, if an auto manufacturer makes an incredibly desirable car, they'll sell every one they make. ask Ferrari, Porsche, even bloody Ford...
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