How many owners have crashed their NSX by sliding the rear end out???

I just wanted to know how many of you owners out there who really drive their NSX's have unexpectedly had the rear end slide out on you thus causing an accident... I was talking to a bunch of owners and noticed a trend...

one night about 2 years ago i was agressively driving my NSX through some residental neighborhood at 3am... i knew that my car handles well but decided to push it harder and in a split second the rear end flew out I fish-tailed into a parked car... I now know the limits of the car and my own driving but I just noticed that the rear wheel driving NSX is not that easy to drive... What do you think?

The NSX is known for snap oversteer when it is pushed beyond the point of no return, primarily as a result of its rear weight bias.

I lost my 93 at Road America in 2005. The car spun on the over-correction after the rear end started sliding and I tried to correct it. Too much speed at corner exit was the only explanation that anyone could come up with. There was no indication of a problem and the car felt very good until the rear end broke loose.

This has not happened to me but wouldn't this help in this situation? Along with the toe links.




Based on reading through many threads on Prime and along with conversations at the track with my instructor, these non-compliance pieces make the car more predictable in the situation described above.

Just my $0.02
(disclaimer-I am not advertising for Comptech or anything like that. In fact, I got mine from SoS)

NSX Status said:

I just wanted to know how many of you owners out there who really drive their NSX's have unexpectedly had the rear end slide out on you thus causing an accident... I was talking to a bunch of owners and noticed a trend...

one night about 2 years ago i was agressively driving my NSX through some residental neighborhood at 3am... i knew that my car handles well but decided to push it harder and in a split second the rear end flew out I fish-tailed into a parked car... I now know the limits of the car and my own driving but I just noticed that the rear wheel driving NSX is not that easy to drive... What do you think?

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I have not with the NSX yet (knock on wood, hoping never..) but I once rode with someone who has...

I've had the S2000 back end out a few times, a couple uncontrolled and a few controlled by counter-steering... as well as some other FW cars practicing in the snow/ice :biggrin:
I've found with the NSX & S2000, you have to be very vigilant about it - sensitive to your throttle changes, traction, weather and listening/feeling the car..

As long as you learn how to correct it.. depending on how far the curb/dirt is, you can be ok :wink:

This happened to me in 2005 while driving arround West Covina. Pushing hard on 2nd gear on a slight curve then suddenly the rear end came loose...did a 360 degrees end up in the island..my WW side and front lip were damaged from the bushes..it was instant with no time to react...I'm just glad that no one got hurt...I've always pointed out that the improper modification of the suspension system and incompatible tire sizes is a serious issue but no one here want to admit it. They just blame it on the driver...I have a G35 coupe with no modification and I can take the same curve..same speed with no problem.....My advise is be careful when you're running those aftermarket wheels and tires without proper suspension tuning..

Please see link below for HAPA88's accident..
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67767



from

NSX Status said:

I just wanted to know how many of you owners out there who really drive their NSX's have unexpectedly had the rear end slide out on you thus causing an accident... I was talking to a bunch of owners and noticed a trend...

one night about 2 years ago i was agressively driving my NSX through some residental neighborhood at 3am... i knew that my car handles well but decided to push it harder and in a split second the rear end flew out I fish-tailed into a parked car... I now know the limits of the car and my own driving but I just noticed that the rear wheel driving NSX is not that easy to drive... What do you think?

Click to expand...

I did a 360 once by nailing it in third gear on a sweeping turn on cold tires.

This is a Sympton of a Mid Engine Car.

And Stated by the Drift King that Mid Engine Cars are the hardest to drive.

All the Weight is in the rear. Plus if you added more throttle than you counter stearing, then you will spin out, fish tail, etc.

My bro has a MR2 Turbo and he spun out and totaled his body and frame (Good thing he was alright). As this happens to a lot of MR2's

You can change/modify the rear suspension or grippier tire setup to help ease this symptom, but ultimately and unfortunately its do to driver error. So you can't really compare a mid engine car to a FR car like the G35. Also some open area driving courses will help to find the limits of your driving and you car.

I hope everything works out well and I'm glad you guys are ok.

Take care.

On the street I've never had a problem, even in bad weather. Although I usually have my ears pointed for any tail-movement when I'm driving faster than usual.

But I did crash at the Spa-Franchorchamps track three years ago at the Eau Rouge turn where you go up-hill in a long sweeping right turn and then have a turn to the left just when the road levels off again. You're grip becomes momentarily less at that point, I wasn't following the right line, tail came around and I was too late and crashed heavily.

Since then I've installed the SOS Toe-links and have noticed the rear does no longer 'take a set' when you are into a fast turn at high speeds.

MvM said:

Since then I've installed the SOS Toe-links and have noticed the rear does no longer 'take a set' when you are into a fast turn at high speeds.

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Funny, I just got off the phone with John Vasos regarding this very issue. This is one downside to the non-compliance rear toe-link set-up. The setting of the suspension helps one judge when you are at the limit. With the non-compliance parts, there is very little to let you know when you are at the limit in a fast turn (such as the Carousel at Road America). Sort of along the same lines of how R-Comps don't squeal to let you know you are approaching the limit in the way that street tires do.

The way I undestand it is...Honda Engineers spent a lot of money in design, research, development & testing with the factory configuration. Everything is engineered/designed so the car will do what it's supposed to do..you're suppose to drive it hard..it's a sports car...but when you modify the suspension as a example.. changing the spring, the shocks, you put it those big ass rims and wider than wide - low profile tires it affects the handling of the car..you have to be extra careful..otherwise it will be a very expensive learning experience..trust me!

I've heard people a lot of people say ..it's the driver's mistake..you need to get driving/track lesson..I agree it does make a big difference...but what about those professional race car drivers?..all their life they've been racing..tell me about experience..including F1 racing..you'd see the same people either loose control - in accident and sometimes lose their lives.. not because of driver's error but of mechanical/engineering failure. Everyday is a learning process...

I'm sure those race car drivers are very well aware of the car's limit and have done proper tuning, numerous testing and practice but still boils down to the point that there's always a good chance something will go wrong...compare that on how we modify our cars without R&D...:frown:

jagtiger said:

...but when you modify the suspension as a example.. changing the spring, the shocks, you put it those big ass rims and wider than wide - low profile tires it affects the handling of the car..you have to be extra careful..

...but what about those professional race car drivers?..all their life they've been racing..tell me about experience..including F1 racing..you'd see the same people either loose control - in accident and sometimes lose their lives.. not because of driver's error but of mechanical/engineering failure. Everyday is a learning process...

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Seems pretty logical. I guess this is also why we don't see race drivers using bling rims and dropping their rides?

The mid engined is the absolute best configuration for a sports car--however, at or beyond the limit a mid engined car can be more difficult to control.

I've gotten myself in the most trouble in the NSX because of throttle off oversteer. I spun my NSX on the track once, while going through a very high speed (90mph) corner that has a very sudden stop after just making the corner. I started to lift before the car was 100% straight (it was very close to 100% though) and it snapped around very fast. I have had another close call on the track while catching slower traffic at the limit on a very fast sweeping corner (I had to throttle off slightly) and boy the car almost went around, luckily I was able to feather the throttle and counter steer out of that one.

Anyhow, be careful pushing the limit of your car on the streets. If you really want to know the limit, take your car to an autocross course (usually lots of open parking lot, spinning results in cones falling over and nothing more), or 2nd best for safety would be a road course.

Scin said:

The mid engined is the absolute best configuration for a sports car--however, at or beyond the limit a mid engined car can be more difficult to control.

I've gotten myself in the most trouble in the NSX because of throttle off oversteer. I spun my NSX on the track once, while going through a very high speed (90mph) corner that has a very sudden stop after just making the corner. I started to lift before the car was 100% straight (it was very close to 100% though) and it snapped around very fast. I have had another close call on the track while catching slower traffic at the limit on a very fast sweeping corner (I had to throttle off slightly) and boy the car almost went around, luckily I was able to feather the throttle and counter steer out of that one.

Anyhow, be careful pushing the limit of your car on the streets. If you really want to know the limit, take your car to an autocross course (usually lots of open parking lot, spinning results in cones falling over and nothing more), or 2nd best for safety would be a road course.

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This thread is pissing me off... im awestruck that people would buy a car of this caliber and not understand what snap oversteer is, how to control it and why the car does it... also auto X is about the worst idea ever in an NSX... stock dx civics will run circles around you. The first main problem with Auto X in an NSX is the fact the car is huge, second the motor is in the back all your gonna do is plow (understeer) if you try to push it at all. And if you keep the car under control which is what Auto X is for honestly a stock civic will out run you. No NSX designer ever had intent to Auto X these cars. If you want to LEARN your car you need to get on a skid pad. This will teach you what understeer, oversteer and in the NSX's case snap oversteer is and how to not wrap your "baby" around the local tree, telephone pole or child...! I agree with he above quote minus the Auto X part as that will just teach you how much these cars suck at auto X.

Batmobl said:

This thread is pissing me off... im awestruck that people would buy a car of this caliber and not understand what snap oversteer is, how to control it and why the car does it... also auto X is about the worst idea ever in an NSX... stock dx civics will run circles around you. The first main problem with Auto X in an NSX is the fact the car is huge, second the motor is in the back all your gonna do is plow (understeer) if you try to push it at all. And if you keep the car under control which is what Auto X is for honestly a stock civic will out run you. No NSX designer ever had intent to Auto X these cars. If you want to LEARN your car you need to get on a skid pad. This will teach you what understeer, oversteer and in the NSX's case snap oversteer is and how to not wrap your "baby" around the local tree, telephone pole or child...! I agree with he above quote minus the Auto X part as that will just teach you how much these cars suck at auto X.

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I don't disagree with you regarding the NSX not being an auto X car, especially with the gearing on the 5 speed. I was mostly encouraging people to learn car control in a safe environment. The skid pad is an excellent suggestion, just remember to turn traction control off. I did a few turns around a skid pad and was wondering WTF was wrong with my car before noticing my TCS was on, I quickly disabled it and had a much better time.

Throttle off oversteer is exactly what I have experienced like Scin says.

So I am curious, what did you do after you hit a parked car in a residential neighborhood at 3:00 am?

Taking a customer for a ride and counseling him about the dangers of a 500 hp nsx and at that moment took a corner too quick hit a little water i didnt see, spun 100 degrees, over a curb,down an embankment,between two trees and into a girls soccer field. The best part was the customer asking me" did you mean to do that?". I responded ...ah no. I ripped the lip off and ruined all four of my ao48s. I think i made the mini-van driver pee her pants that was behind me too.

Scin said:

I don't disagree with you regarding the NSX not being an auto X car, especially with the gearing on the 5 speed. I was mostly encouraging people to learn car control in a safe environment. The skid pad is an excellent suggestion, just remember to turn traction control off. I did a few turns around a skid pad and was wondering WTF was wrong with my car before noticing my TCS was on, I quickly disabled it and had a much better time.

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thank you for understanding my post and not taking it as a personal hit i was a bit out of line. Gearing is another awesome point against Auto X. Uve got to love the fact 2nd does 85mph when your on a tight road race track tho :biggrin:

In 1997 I was driving my well-worn 1985 MR2 much too fast in the pouring rain southbound on I-101 from San Francisco to Los Gatos (where I lived, but not anymore ... sigh) and did a 360 without touching anything, and I just kept going.

Now, with the NSX, I concentrate more on throttle modulation than anything else. The electronic throttle is perfect for this, as it's more sensitive than the cable-operated type. I also drive with bare feet. The moment I notice the rear tires' slip angle get too out of line, I lift just that tiny bit, and it'll step out just that little bit more, but I know that'll be the end of the slide and the car will be balanced once more through the rest of the turn. My right foot's muscles are more tensed up modulating the throttle than my hand's muscles handling the steering wheel. The best way to scrub speed is via four wheel slide, and the only way to have that happen repeatedly and under good control is to be as sensitive with the throttle as possible.

An NSX is not a Corvair, which as Ralph Nader once said is "Unsafe at any speed." That being said, I've had the back end jump around, when I was fooling around trying to find the limit of the car. Given the limit is a variable based on many factors other than the driver or the car, I have learned to stay away from it. I don't drive it on the track, so I have little need to get anywhere near the limit.

Maybe I'm getting old. Anyone with a rear wheel drive car and push the limit and swing out the back, even with a front drive car.

Stay safe.

Miner

When cornering at 80 or under I find the NSX very predictable at the limit, in throttle oversteer, and other tail-wagging occurrences. At these lower speeds proper countersteer does a lot to keep the rear from passing the front...often times even with bad choices about throttle or brake application (I can't comment on higher speeds like 120 as I lack experience corning at the limit at such speeds). I absolutely love the way the NSX drives and don't think it's at all the scary/unpredictable beast many make it out to be.

When you add R-compound tires (as brahtw8 noted) it gets harder to predict & control because of the increase in adhesion, higher resulting speeds, and less-predictable break-away. I'm also of the opinion that up-sizing the rim diameter and decreasing the tire profile has the same effect (less forgiveness and warning) without the increase in real performance/adhesion (not to be confused with perceived performance). Cold tires (like the stock A022H in winter temps) can also be quite slick...which can be fun or scary depending on your perspective.

Since this thread is partially about spin stories...

My one spin (100 degrees or so...rear end left the track, no damage) was on a long decreasing-radius corner at ~70mph when I apexed too early, was running out of road, and tried to squeeze more out of the (R-compound) tires while starting to ease off the throttle because of fear (panic). A good example of compounding mistakes I suppose.

Come to think of it, I did a 360 spin when I just had the car and went to a track that was absolutely soaking wet. Nobody was driving very fast, especially not me, when a right-left turn for me turned into a 360 degree spin very very quickly. I was going into the second part of the turn (to the left) a little faster than I wanted and lifted the throttle (as in taking my feet of the pedal probably) and the car spun around and just stood still.
I was a totally automatic reaction for me being used to front-wheel drive cars and it was the quickest way to learn than letting go of the throttle is NOT always the best thing to do.

On the opposite, going into a long sweeping turn at 115 mph on the same track (much, much later) and feel your NSX smoothly drifting to the outside over all four wheels sure gets your adrenalin going. Then your really know you should definately NOT lift the throttle :smile:

depending on where you buy your parts from, wouldnt R&D be done at the factory? Afterall, most sub-GT cars still use regular aftermarket parts that are available retail. although their R&D is just driving and checking lap times I would assume (when talking about arms and what not)

I nearly lost control of the back in a hard driven corner at 70 mph once but this was five years ago. After this experience I have very great respect of a mid-engine and this never happened since.

I have spun out, avoiding a civic in the rain that cut me off, sharp turn plus hard brakes . Did some damage to my car, all cosmetic but since I spun through some brush I had scratches over a lot of the car. The only good was that if I didn't do it, I might of totalled my car by hitting the civic hard.

NSX Status said:

I just wanted to know how many of you owners out there who really drive their NSX's have unexpectedly had the rear end slide out on you thus causing an accident... I was talking to a bunch of owners and noticed a trend...

one night about 2 years ago i was agressively driving my NSX through some residental neighborhood at 3am... i knew that my car handles well but decided to push it harder and in a split second the rear end flew out I fish-tailed into a parked car... I now know the limits of the car and my own driving but I just noticed that the rear wheel driving NSX is not that easy to drive... What do you think?

Click to expand...

This is a good reason to attend some high performance driving schools with your NSX. I have done that with mine and it has been a huge help, and is very enjoyable. As a result, when I have been on the edge of handling, I have a much better idea what to do when the snap is about to happen, or starts to happen. The first time I felt the bite of snap oversteer was at GingerMan Raceway in my '91 and I ended up sliding sideways through the grass wondering what happened. LOL!! The advantage was that I was at the track....so all I got was grassy.