Woo, I just re-read my post and it's a huge wall of text. I would be surprised if you or anyone reads this Lol.
this is of course an NSX forum full of NSX owners and like minded individuals who purchased the NSX because it was the most practical supercar, and evidently that was the major point of consideration. there is no doubt you speak for NSX enthusiasts, as most NSX enthusiasts share the same outlook on sportscars as yourself. again, because they bought them. however i can speak for many other sportscar enthusiasts who would rather own a Corvette for "half or a third of the money" because it's "way faster, and why would you pay more money to be slower?" we have all heard it before. Lotus guys will tell you their cars are the best because they're the lightest and designed by F1 greats. the Porsche blokes will tell you their cars are superior because they've evolved over 50 years into the best thing ever, etc. each has its own loyal fanbase.
The drawback of the Corvette is exotic appeal, aesthetics (more so on the interior), and fit/finish. There is no exotic appeal to me for any Porsche except the Carrera GT, even if their fit/finish is much better and thus price reflects that. There is no doubt the 911 and Corvette are top sellers, but that has more to do with price, history and market segment command. Porsche has been evolving the same platform for years, very much like what the Iphone is doing now and so they have many loyal and unified fans that are emotionally attached. However, best sellers do no necessarily equate to best quality.
what i've noticed since the introduction of the new car, is that there's doubt amongst some of this forum's members about the new car and its performance, and the gimmicks used to achieve it. undoubtedly, the greatest purchasers of the new NSX will be previous or current NSX owners, there is no question in my opinion. i don't know if that's enough cars to satisfy Honda? the original worldwide run was under 9000 correct, over a 15 year time period? like i said much earlier in this thread, it's not us Honda needs to sell the car to, we're guaranteed buyers, it's the rest of the general public. i'm not convinced they're as interested in practicality. that's the reason a lot of people didn't buy the NSX the first time around, and why a lot of people didn't consider it a true exotic. many people considered the car dull and boring because your grandma could drive it to the grocery store. NSX owners consider that one of the car's strengths, non owners consider it a weakness.
First, I want to say that in the 90s, almost all sports car sales dwindled in the middle of that decade. The economy back then was very shaky and dynamic. Notice how all of the other 90s "super cars" went out of production by 1995-1997 except for the NSX??? The NSX sold quite well considering all things and now the market has it accessible to a point where those who can afford can buy one and not have to search forever for one, but it's rare enough to demand an esteemed exotic price tag for a 20 year old Honda. 8K per generation is perfect for exotic numbers IMO. A Corvette or 911 typically averages 20-30K per year. Plenty to go around, I would say. How special would the NSX be, if there were 20K per year?
Honda planned from the beginning to produce 20,000 units for the original NSX. Sales just happened to be ~8K in the US and ~8K for the rest of the world and it took a little longer than expected thanks the 90's situation. The remaining 2-3K units/parts are extras being distributed across the world to help fix up wrecked/savaged cars I reckon. Honda was smart about the contract. They didn't lose money producing the NSX, because they had a plan and knew what they were doing unlike Lexus. The same can be said for Nissan's GTR; they have a plan too obviously. The new NSX is going to have set amount of cars per year or pre-set contract like the first.
Like those who made the close-minded grandma statement, I once viewed the NSX as rubbish too. I had a twin turbo 300ZX and questioned how the hell can a 290 hp car be $90K? Boy was I wrong, when I finally drove an NSX. Now the other note, Hybrid technology is meant to be practical and driven often. Hybrid tech is designed to be practical, but it could also augment performance. You can read the other ongoing thread about my argument for the new NSX and hybrid tech, but my main point is that Corvette or 911 owners may not care about hybrid tech, but there is still and will be a market for the new NSX. More on that later, but first.
Even IF the general public may not be interested in practicality, the refined, intelligent and shrewd consumers will always strongly consider these priorities. I'm not trying to make a comment on the general public or your taste, but when one reach a level of awareness of the industry, one will know where practicality and efficiency lies in every product that one consumes. The rest of the world can go frivolously spending based on emotions alone, but we all know how that can get you in trouble ultimately. There is a reason why the majority are colloquially called cash cows.
So I don't want to make the NSX appear pretentious, but it's a very refined and efficient product when considering all variables, and only a certain percentile of the population can appreciate and recognize this when they have a desire to buy a vehicle that represents their progressive personality.
NO NEED TO YELL AT ME, we've all heard this stuff before. from the media, and out of the mouths of car enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike. whether or not its true doesn't really matter, it was a general perception by some. Supercars aren't Camry's, i don't think the majority of buyers are shopping as they would for an Accord. the new car will be a Honda. it will be super reliable, it will be practical, it will be fuel efficient, have a reasonable trunk, comfy seats, a good air con system. truth be told, which new Supercars don't? the fit and finish on a new Ferrari or McLaren is amazing. i don't know that being superior in fuel mileage is gonna sell more cars than Audi or Porsche if there's less or even equal performance? the other cars have pretty much all caught up at this stage. the NSX can no longer claim the superiority it once had in so many areas other than performance. new Corvette's have much bigger trunk capacity, and get stupid fuel mileage. even the bloody Italian cars are reliable, who'd have ever thought this was possible?! again, you have to take yourself out of your NSX shoes, and put yourself in the non-NSX enthusiast's shoes. the question is, will the new car be good enough to sway prospective buyers away from the Corvette, 911, GTR, or R8 in the same price range? or an MP4, 458, etc. for those who aren't on a budget? what do you reckon?
Never once in my mind did I imagine myself yelling my statements... People make the argument of practical car versus sports car all the time to me about my NSX and then I explain how practical my NSX and many are pleasantly surprised. Some will never understand, but that's OK. You obviously have been bitterly replying to those kinds of people "that Sports cars are not meant to be practical" and have been taking idealistic approach to heart. :tongue:
Anyways, Audi and Porsche are still not THAT reliable. When I mention reliability and practically, I also take in cost/maintenance. Most people don't drive Ferrari enough to prove their long term reliability due to value depreciation/appreciation, so I'd say the verdict is still out on Ferrari reliability. Maybe we will see in the near future, but I wouldn't compare Ferrari's reliability to Honda. The MP4-12C's fit and finish is still not the best IMO. You can compare McLaren's interior to the NSX Concept's interior if you have a sharp eye. I also have some doubts for reliability since it's their first stand-alone engine.
I do not think Honda wants the NSX to outsell Audi, Porsche or Nissan, etc. They want to claim a missing segment and provide something that unique and different to the market, again "grey area", not the black or white. Like I said above, Honda plans to sell a certain limited quantity that will meet exotic levels and still make money for them while showcasing their flagship tech. This is the same approach that Nissan has taken with the GTR obviously. Even though they have thrown the gauntlet out at Porsche for publicity, they never truly intended the GTR to outsell the 911. I'm sure they wouldn't complain if they could, but that's not their goal.
People keep making the comparisons of the 458 or Mclaren to the new NSX, but the price difference is going to be huge and they are not in the same market. It's not going to be hard for Honda to outperform Audi. Let the sheep flock to Audi thanks to their cool marketing schemes, but I don't really see much substance in any of the their products IMO. Porsche is going the be the biggest thorn for Honda, but the new NSX will most likely be priced below Porsche's market either way, so I don't think sales is a huge concern for Honda.
how well do you see the NSX competing with that competition?
now that all the cars are pretty equal on the reliability and practicality playing field? how will the NSX win?
Again, reliability and practicality levels have been raised in the industry, but I would not exaggerate it to the point that they are equal to Honda's unusual NSX in a sense. How many Porsche, or Ferrari owners have you seen happily breaking the 100K or 200K mile mark. The biggest costs over those mileage are timing/belt waterpump and clutches for the NSX. That's ~$3-5K per 90K miles. How much would cost for a Porsche or Ferrari to drive to 100K miles? How many trips to the dealership would that entail versus driving the NSX (not counting the typical oil change)?
Nonetheless, I think you bringing up sales as a argument is sign of soreness in this debate. You've been ranting on and on about flagship cars like the LFA only needing 500 units, but then you make an argument for sales? You are not the only one to have brought sales up, but I think it's sort of funny that people compare NSX sales to Corvette or 911 sales numbers. I don't want the NSX to sell Corvette/911 numbers and I am sure Honda does not either. They will have another vehicle lined up to attempt that (S2000 successor or mini-NSX).
There is nothing exotic about 30,000 cars per year! That's me yelling :wink:
I used to be diehard about bikes too until I daily commuted in one for a few seasons.
