is this true to the wheel torq is only 185 thats pretty bad..corvettes have 350(almost double) and vipers have almost triple!! eagle talon turbos probably have more..boy i love the nsx and will get the next generation but ONLY if it has min 375 hp and at least 300 pounds of torque!!!!
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185 Ibs torque THATS IT???
- Thread starter vtec
- Start date
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First of all you are mistaken. The C5 vettes are rated at 350 lb-ft *at the crank* not at the wheels.
Beyond that, I will try to explain again - do not get all worked up about peak HP/torque numbers!
A stock C5 typically makes a little over 300 lb-ft at the wheels from around 2500 to 5000 and drops off steadily after 5000 RPM. That's 2500 RPM of good strong torque.
The 3.2L NSX produces more in the 200-225 range over the same RPM range but does not drop off until around 7000 which is almost double the RPM range. So even though the actual torque is lower the greater RPM range helps even out the total area under the curve.
Yes there are plenty of cars with higher peak HP and torque numbers. But as most real-world tests will show that doesn't mean they are faster. Certainly not in proportion to their peak HP or torque numbers. The current NSX coupe and C5 are very competitive with each other in the 1/4 mile.
In some tests (such as the C&D 0-150-0 test) the NSX even leaves the C5 behind. This is because peak HP and torque do not determine performance, they are just numbers. You need to look at the entire power curve for the engine, gearing, weight, etc.
VTEC=low peak torque, but flat torque curve
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Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html
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Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html
Lud is correct. But let me add to that.
These cars have very different agendas. The the NSX is to Formula 1 what the C5 is to NASCAR.
If you want peak hp, I would recommend buying a drag strip queen and save lots of money.
Marc
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94 Red & Tan NSX 5spd
1999 Cosmos BMW M Coupe 5spd
These cars have very different agendas. The the NSX is to Formula 1 what the C5 is to NASCAR.
If you want peak hp, I would recommend buying a drag strip queen and save lots of money.
Marc
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94 Red & Tan NSX 5spd
1999 Cosmos BMW M Coupe 5spd
I can't believe it. I just has this same "discussion" over in the alt.autos.porsche newsgroup. Some C5 owner was verbally abusing all the 911 owners, but then started to whip up on the NSX since he saw my signature now shows both an NSX and a 911S. Well, fortunately the 911 owners are well armed with C&D statistics too and were able to point out that the NSX wins in 0-100, 1/4 mile, 0-150-0, and ties in the skidpad.
A lot of people who have never driven an NSX let the numbers talk them out of even looking at it. In the case of the NSX I have to admit that the car is a lot more than just the sum of its parts and that numbers are just numbers. You have to plant your butt in the seat to see what the NSXperience is really all about!
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Gordon G. Miller, III
Y2K NSX #51 Yellow/Black
A lot of people who have never driven an NSX let the numbers talk them out of even looking at it. In the case of the NSX I have to admit that the car is a lot more than just the sum of its parts and that numbers are just numbers. You have to plant your butt in the seat to see what the NSXperience is really all about!
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Gordon G. Miller, III
Y2K NSX #51 Yellow/Black
Yes, Lud is correct about the crank vs rear wheel torque. Dyno quotes are measured "rearwheel", but the torque number is adjusted for the crank RPM, not the rear wheel RPM. Therefore to get the real rearwheel torque you must account for the gearing differences between the NSX and C5. The C5 has a first gear ratio of 2.66 and a final drive ratio of 3.42. Assuming the crank torque including drivetrain losses is about 300 lb-ft, the rearwheel torque in first gear would be 300x2.66x3.42 = 2729 lb-ft. The 97+ NSX has about 200 lb-ft of torque accounting for losses with a first gear ratio of 3.07 and final drive ratio of 4.06, therefore the torque to the street is 200x3.07x4.04 = 2493 lb-ft. If you also account for the differnce in weight between the C5 and the NSX, and also account for the larger rotational mass of the C5, you see why the NSX and C5 accelerate at about the same rate. Looking at crank torque by itself is very misleading. Comparing horsepower to weight is the best comparison, because it has the gearing (RPM change) effect built-in due to its definition.
Bob Butler
Bob Butler
Actually, there's not a big weight difference between the C5 and the NSX.
The current C5 coupe (closest to the current NSX-T) weighs 3222 lbs. The NSX-T weighs 3208 lbs.
The new Z06 hardtop (closest to the non-targa NSX) C5 weighs 3115. The NSX weighs 3164 lbs.
I find these numbers fairly interesting and revealing. First off, lets give credit where credit is due. Chevrolet did an amazing job in getting weight out of the C5. Considering that the C5 has a steel frame and a 5.7 L V8 (compared to the NSX's aluminum construction and smaller 3.2 L V6). This is truly amazing.
If the rumors of a steel next generation V8 NSX are true... I think with Honda's clever engineering (and taking the C5 as a benchmark) I think it's possible that a new steel V8 NSX could weigh less than the current design...
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
The current C5 coupe (closest to the current NSX-T) weighs 3222 lbs. The NSX-T weighs 3208 lbs.
The new Z06 hardtop (closest to the non-targa NSX) C5 weighs 3115. The NSX weighs 3164 lbs.
I find these numbers fairly interesting and revealing. First off, lets give credit where credit is due. Chevrolet did an amazing job in getting weight out of the C5. Considering that the C5 has a steel frame and a 5.7 L V8 (compared to the NSX's aluminum construction and smaller 3.2 L V6). This is truly amazing.
If the rumors of a steel next generation V8 NSX are true... I think with Honda's clever engineering (and taking the C5 as a benchmark) I think it's possible that a new steel V8 NSX could weigh less than the current design...
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
It sounds like you might be comparing cars that are dissimilar. If you want to compare something to the open-top NSX-T (3208 pounds), you should be comparing the Corvette convertible - how much does it weigh? If you want to compare something to the Corvette coupe, you should be comparing the NSX coupe (3164 pounds). If you want to compare something to the lightweight Z06 , you should be comparing the NSX Zanardi (around 3050 pounds, as I recall).
nsxtasy,
Both the Corvette C5 coupe (3222 lbs) and the NSX-T (3208 lbs) are targa designs. That's why I chose them because I think they're the closest in design concept.
The regular NSX coupe does not have a removable top. It is a hardtop design. The only Corvette hardtop without a removable top (also called a fixed roof coupe) is the Z06 design. These two designs are similar in that they can be lighter due to better structural integrity of the fixed roof.
The Corvette fixed roof coupe (FRC) or hardtop has been reincarnated this year into the special Z06 model, but I think it's still fair for comparative purposes. Even so, the Zanardi is still fairly close in weight to the C5 FRC.
My point was simply that clever design can rule the day, regardless of material choices. If you would have given me written specs on both the C5 and the NSX, I would have expected that the NSX, with its aluminum body and structure and smaller V6 engine, to be significantly (about 300-400 pounds) lighter than the C5.
I think this is great news for us NSX lovers. I think it means that Honda can take things to the next level and with clever design and engineering, build a next-gen NSX that has a lower-cost steel structure, a 400 hp V8 VTEC screamer that is exotic and perhaps a bit more affordable than the current design.
And...this is important...it doesn't need to be any heavier than the current design. Perhaps Honda can learn a few of the good things that Chevy did with the Z06.
Use of titanium exhaust, for example.
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
Both the Corvette C5 coupe (3222 lbs) and the NSX-T (3208 lbs) are targa designs. That's why I chose them because I think they're the closest in design concept.
The regular NSX coupe does not have a removable top. It is a hardtop design. The only Corvette hardtop without a removable top (also called a fixed roof coupe) is the Z06 design. These two designs are similar in that they can be lighter due to better structural integrity of the fixed roof.
The Corvette fixed roof coupe (FRC) or hardtop has been reincarnated this year into the special Z06 model, but I think it's still fair for comparative purposes. Even so, the Zanardi is still fairly close in weight to the C5 FRC.
My point was simply that clever design can rule the day, regardless of material choices. If you would have given me written specs on both the C5 and the NSX, I would have expected that the NSX, with its aluminum body and structure and smaller V6 engine, to be significantly (about 300-400 pounds) lighter than the C5.
I think this is great news for us NSX lovers. I think it means that Honda can take things to the next level and with clever design and engineering, build a next-gen NSX that has a lower-cost steel structure, a 400 hp V8 VTEC screamer that is exotic and perhaps a bit more affordable than the current design.
And...this is important...it doesn't need to be any heavier than the current design. Perhaps Honda can learn a few of the good things that Chevy did with the Z06.
Use of titanium exhaust, for example.
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
- Messages
- 3,942
You are comparing cars with different design goals and layouts. Another common comparison is the Porsche 911.
First, a mid-engine car with a usable trunk is inherently heavier than a front engined hatchback-style car or a rear engined car with no rear trunk. The 911 is also smaller.
Second, the NSX was designed as a coupe. It was built with pioneering work in aluminum automobile construction a decade ago. To make the Targa stiff enough using aluminum they had to do a lot of bracing. But it's still not as stiff as the C5 which was designed to be a convertible using the latest in steel construction technology.
The C5 also uses run-flat tires instead of a spare. The Z06 drops the run-flat tires for a can of fix-a-flat. You can do the same on your NSX and drop probably 50 lbs. You can also remove the engine cover, something else the other two cars don't use, and drop another 25+ lbs (I'm guessing on that weight though).
The weight savings from using aluminum at the time of building the original NSX coupe were on the order of 450 lbs throughout the entire vehicle (from chassis to suspension to seat frames) versus a car with similar characteristics built from steel.
First, a mid-engine car with a usable trunk is inherently heavier than a front engined hatchback-style car or a rear engined car with no rear trunk. The 911 is also smaller.
Second, the NSX was designed as a coupe. It was built with pioneering work in aluminum automobile construction a decade ago. To make the Targa stiff enough using aluminum they had to do a lot of bracing. But it's still not as stiff as the C5 which was designed to be a convertible using the latest in steel construction technology.
The C5 also uses run-flat tires instead of a spare. The Z06 drops the run-flat tires for a can of fix-a-flat. You can do the same on your NSX and drop probably 50 lbs. You can also remove the engine cover, something else the other two cars don't use, and drop another 25+ lbs (I'm guessing on that weight though).
The weight savings from using aluminum at the time of building the original NSX coupe were on the order of 450 lbs throughout the entire vehicle (from chassis to suspension to seat frames) versus a car with similar characteristics built from steel.
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