• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

90k service

Joined
10 July 2013
Messages
112
Location
Panama City Fl,
So far so good, Ive waited a little longer to do the 90k service in at 97k atm but everything looks pretty good under the covers.

The engine has been leaking oil form all of the upper gaskets on the valve covers. all gaskets are being replaced. all belts / water pump etc.

the most difficult part so far today was checking the valve clearances (0.006 / 0.007 intake and 0.007 / 0.008 exhaust) i wasn't quite sure i was doing this correctly as this was my first time. I lined up the cylinder marks on the front bank cam gears (rear cam indicator points directly to the center of front cam gear indicating corresponding cylinder # is at TDC) i started with the feeler gauge initially before loosening the lock nuts and re adjusting anyways for some practice. I used the 0.006 gauge and placed it under the rocker and cam and tightened until there was slight resistance then tightened the lock nut all the way and checked again. Is this correct?

pulled all the NGK plugs and they had a very nice medium brown char over the center porcelain, the diodes all looked good and no indication of oil in the cylinders or rich mixture. Replaced with NGK platinum.

the valve covers were coated with a light bead of honda bond and set gasket side down on some cardboard with a 25 lb weight on top so they will set flat and dry before installation. (i hate it when a gasket moves when trying to re-install a valve cover)

The valve train and cams looked very good besides the tip of the lobes which are showing some normal wear, everything was extremely clean and brand new looking, zero sludge or oil build up / signs of overheating or carbon are non existent on the valve train. A good sign of a healthy engine.

I plan on removing the headers / exhaust for a nice cleanup and replacing the gaskets, i can her a small exhaust leak that's a little peeve of mine.


For paint protection on the car i had a great idea that costs little to nothing, i have a box of microfiber towels of various sizes. i went to the dollar store and bought some saran wrap, covered the car in microfiber towels, then put saran wrap over the towels creating an oil / scratch barrier over the trunk and rear panels. it works very well.

will post some pictures soon! Tomorrow is the coolant draining / timing belt and water pump. i think i'll try and get a good cleaning underneath as well. There is a layer of dirt about 1/8" thick under the car, im sure theres a good 20 lBS total under the car. Anyone have any experience removing this stuff with relative ease and some elbow grease?

Next up will be to tackle the windows and stereo (showing signs of age).
 
A little update:

Unfortunately my camera was dropped in some liquid and most of the pictures were lost with the SD card.

I started the car tonight for the first time and it all sounded fine. fired right up. But now it seems to be running on less than 6 cylinders. Has anyone encountered this problem after a 90k service? i double checked all connections were plugged in, i put the coils back on in the same sequence they came off. new spark plugs of the same kind. I'm a little bit baffled. There must have been something i missed.

Edit* would the car basically run like crap if the belt had jumped a tooth on one of the cam gears?
 
Last edited:
Yes it would. Do a compression test immediately. Start by testing cylinder #1 and then #4. Post results.

Did you advance the rear exhaust cam (1/2 tooth) before installing the timing belt, per the service manual?

Regards,
LarryB
 
Yes it would. Do a compression test immediately. Start by testing cylinder #1 and then #4. Post results.

Did you advance the rear exhaust cam (1/2 tooth) before installing the timing belt, per the service manual?

Regards,
LarryB

A friend of mine helped me install the timing belt. We installed the belt with the crank pulley key way pointing straight up, with #1 front cam gears indicated at TDC and the rear cams (from a previous belt installation) indicated aligned as well. Installed 5mm Alan wrenches (didn't have pin punches) in the cam holes and locked the cams in place before we removed the belt. Installed the belt in the order the manual suggested (which was a pain in the ass because there was no stretch) and removed all slack to the tensioner. We double checked the timing marks and rotated the engine (clockwise) by hand about 3 full revolutions until we were back at TDC #1 to make sure nothing felt abnormal. the only resistance felt was the compression in between each cylinder (plugs were in) and no noises were observed that would indicate piston / valve contact.

We did not move the cam gears at all during belt installation, and after studying the manual I didn't see where it may have said to advance the exhaust cam 1/2 tooth ('

I'm guessing that's to accommodate the lack of stretch in a new belt).

I'll get a compression guage
 
1. NEVER do this with plugs in, the valve train must move freely for the belt installation
2. Advancing the cam is not to accommodate slack, the belt teeth are as wide as the belt, and the gear teeth are the same, so if you do not advance the rear cam, most of the time it ends up one tooth retarded. The compression test will show about 30psi low on the rear bank. (been there, done that:))
3. Page 6-25 of the 1991 online manual step "3D" states about advancing the cam, Step 2 states "Remove All Spark Plugs"

The good news is if this is the case, no harm done, just a bunch of rework;).

HTH,
LarryB
 
1. NEVER do this with plugs in, the valve train must move freely for the belt installation
2. Advancing the cam is not to accommodate slack, the belt teeth are as wide as the belt, and the gear teeth are the same, so if you do not advance the rear cam, most of the time it ends up one tooth retarded. The compression test will show about 30psi low on the rear bank. (been there, done that:))
3. Page 6-25 of the 1991 online manual step "3D" states about advancing the cam, Step 2 states "Remove All Spark Plugs"

The good news is if this is the case, no harm done, just a bunch of rework;).

HTH,
LarryB


Awesome advice and very reassuring. ATM I am not at home but do you advance both exhaust cams or just one? and advancing would be counter or clockwise rotation?

Hopefully I can have her up and running after being down for the count for over a week. She needs to be driven!!!!!
 
ONLY rear exhaust cam:)

Advance is clockwise. Make sure you look at the service manual.

Regards,
LarryB
 
Last edited:
Ok so compression.

#
1 - 190
2 - 190
3 - 190
4 - 165
5 - 165
6 - 180

20140606_171507_resized(1).jpganother interesting thing, after pulling the spark plugs. I noticed a ground wire not connected to the alternator side of the engine, i noticed it had been tucked away and not connected properly upon re-installation. the plugs on the front bank were all still completely white. While the rear plugs had a very slight browning indicating no spark to the front bank plugs.

*edit. SO I suspect exactly what you were saying that i forgot to advance the 1/2 tooth on the rear bank with the compression being so close and less than 30-40 PSI off. The test was conducted with 6 revolutions of the crank per cylinder to ensure max PSI was attained. Side not, with all plugs out the engine roteated freely and easily with no hangs or small stoppages during the rotation. no pings or clanks or tings.

*edit. Probably important to note the compression test was done on a "cold" engine and not warmed to operating or below operating temperature. Readings would probably be higher on a warm engine that hasn't been sitting for a week.
 
Last edited:
20140607_123330_resized.jpg..... here are the front cams aligned to #1 TDC notice the mark is perpendicular to the timing cover pointing directly at the center of the front cam bolt.

20140607_123351_resized.jpg here is the crank timing mark. Notice it's to the right about 1/4 " from the timing mark TDC indicator. Time to take it all back apart. This is where a lack of attention to detail has got me.

20140607_124107_resized.jpg20140607_124122_resized.jpgAlso, here are some AMAZING and CHEAP alternatives to buying 4 identical pin punches. These are Roll pins purchased at Lowes for $0.88 for two. And they fit perfectly in the cam holes.
 
Last edited:
Remember you MUST start with the crank exactly set a #1 TDC Compression. I suspect more is off then just the rear cam.

But the comp test does prove no internal engine damage has occurred.

Regards,
LarryB
 
Remember you MUST start with the crank exactly set a #1 TDC Compression. I suspect more is off then just the rear cam.

But the comp test does prove no internal engine damage has occurred.

Regards,
LarryB

Yes, I re-accomplished the ENTIRE service again in about 8 hours (minus the water pump) and found advancing the rear exhaust cam 1/2 tooth allowed the belt to slide on effortlessly. after re-assembly was complete I immediately did a compression test on the rear bank and was relieved to see 192 PSI. continued the test across all cylinders

1 = 191
2 = 190
3 = 190
4 = 190
5 = 191
6 = 190

Hooked all the bits back up fired right up and revved perfectly fine. Once everything was warm and settled, no noises or leaks, put 150 mile son her that day =D.

Im confident I can do the correct 90k service in around 5 hours by myself now after doing it twice in a row. hehehe! thank you for the help!
 
Back
Top