'91 NSX vs. '02-'04 Carrera 4S

DCNSX · 20 November 2008

I currently track my '91 NSX (and have for about 4 years) and love it. It is a weekend and track-day car and I run it on street tires (Falken Azenis). The only mods are upgraded brake pads, removal of the brake rain shields, and installation of Dali brake deflectors. So, I like my track cars to be basically stock. I have the Traction Control permanently disabled.

Has anyone tracked a C4S? I'd like to get one at some point, and eventually make it my track car. I'd appreciate any comments pro or con. But here are some things to consider:

- C4S has brakes, suspension, and widebody from the Turbo.
- Porsche Stability Management - good or bad on track?
- AWD vs. RWD
- reliability? So far the NSX has been rock-solid
- 270 vs. 320 hp
- weight
- safety: my NSX is a targa (aftermarket conversion) and I'd probably install a roll bar and harness if I bought a C4S. I have neither in the NSX.

Random question- it appears the rear quarter lower "vents" on the C4S are just cosmetic, but on the turbo they are real vents. anyone know?

FWIW- I would like to keep the NSX in any case.

stuntman · 20 November 2008

You can't permentantly disable PSM on the track, which sucks. It can be very intrusive when driving the car at the limits.

I havn't tracked a C4S but the torque split on the 996 turbo made it feel like a really easy to drive RWD car.

But if you know how PSM works, you can drive around it (it's not fast to drive around it but you can still work around it to have fun:

Does the RWD Carrera also have PSM? IMO, for pure track/fun driving, I would prefer the RWD Carrera, but if it rains a lot and snows where you live, and the Porsche is a DD, i'd recommend the C4S - which you can still have fun on at the track.

0.02

jtower · 20 November 2008

there's a pca event at vir this weekend, if you're free head up there and hang around the paddock. maybe you can get a couple of ride alongs as well.

DCNSX · 20 November 2008

Snow isn't a real problem here, and as it wouldn't be a daily driver, I don't really need the AWD. But I like the C4S over the C2.

Here are some current (lower-range) sales from eBay for 996s with less than 50k miles:

C2 $26-30k
C4S $36-39k (they were 40k+ a few mos. ago)
Turbo $44-47k (most were $50k+ a few mos. ago)

The Turbo seems to be a great bang for the buck, but the C4S is stretching my budget as it is. Possibly I'll end up with a C2 with Aero Kit. And in the meantime, I'll keep investing in lottery tickets. :wink:

Anyone else have knowledge of the C4S on track ???

jTower- if I don't head out of town, want to go up to VIR Saturday?

NSXLuvr · 20 November 2008

Sorry- My experience is limited to a GT3 and a few rides on my friend's 996TT. Why do you prefer the AWD to RWD? I would only go with AWD only if you live up north or have TT with 500+ RWHP.

Personally - I would go with a 2002+ C2S with Aerokit if you like the styling. It will be lighter, have less mechanical worries and will make you a better driver. The C2s rotates much better than a C4s in tight corners. This would be more fun on the track IMHO.

jtower · 20 November 2008

DCNSX said:
Snow isn't a real problem here, and as it wouldn't be a daily driver, I don't really need the AWD. But I like the C4S over the C2.

Here are some current (lower-range) sales from eBay for 996s with less than 50k miles:

C2 $26-30k
C4S $36-39k (they were 40k+ a few mos. ago)
Turbo $44-47k (most were $50k+ a few mos. ago)

The Turbo seems to be a great bang for the buck, but the C4S is stretching my budget as it is. Possibly I'll end up with a C2 with Aero Kit. And in the meantime, I'll keep investing in lottery tickets. :wink:

Anyone else have knowledge of the C4S on track ???

jTower- if I don't head out of town, want to go up to VIR Saturday?

a friend of mine recently picked up a 996, he can probably give you some thoughts on what model to get, pros and cons, etc. it's his daily driver as well as a track car. in fact we were in the same run group at vir on monday, on the last session of the day (when i started to get comfortable in the nsx) he and i were turning very similar lap times.

sat is iffy, i usually go bike riding sat/sun am and don't finish up until 1200 or 1300. but we'll see how it plays out, i'll call you.

DCNSX · 25 November 2008

NSXLuvr- Porsche doesn't make a non-AWD "S" (widebody) model in the 996, as far as I am aware. (Let me know if I'm incorrect) Only the C4S. They did make 993 and 997 "S" models in 2WD. As price is a big issue, I'll probably end up with a C2 w/ aero kit - there are also more of those available.

But I was hoping for a step up from the NSX, and on-track the regular 996 seems pretty comparable, IMHO. a little more hp, 300 vs. 270, but more weight as well. The C4S has 320 hp and AWD, but that has its disadvantages, and I really don't need AWD. but I like the widebody look front and rear on the C4S. decisions, decisions.

NSXDreamer2 · 25 November 2008

DCNSX said:
NSXLuvr- Porsche doesn't make a non-AWD "S" (widebody) model in the 996, as far as I am aware. (Let me know if I'm incorrect) Only the C4S. They did make 993 and 997 "S" models in 2WD. As price is a big issue, I'll probably end up with a C2 w/ aero kit - there are also more of those available.

But I was hoping for a step up from the NSX, and on-track the regular 996 seems pretty comparable, IMHO. a little more hp, 300 vs. 270, but more weight as well. The C4S has 320 hp and AWD, but that has its disadvantages, and I really don't need AWD. but I like the widebody look front and rear on the C4S. decisions, decisions.

IMO any C2 or C4, C4s isn't a step up from nsx. (You may spend more money if that made you think it's a step up. :wink

FWIW, I'm turning comparable lap times as GT3's, but then if someone offer me a GT3 for my nsx, I would do it in a heartbeat.:biggrin:

s14_tat · 26 November 2008

DCNSX said:
NSXLuvr- Porsche doesn't make a non-AWD "S" (widebody) model in the 996, as far as I am aware. (Let me know if I'm incorrect) Only the C4S. They did make 993 and 997 "S" models in 2WD. As price is a big issue, I'll probably end up with a C2 w/ aero kit - there are also more of those available.

But I was hoping for a step up from the NSX, and on-track the regular 996 seems pretty comparable, IMHO. a little more hp, 300 vs. 270, but more weight as well. The C4S has 320 hp and AWD, but that has its disadvantages, and I really don't need AWD. but I like the widebody look front and rear on the C4S. decisions, decisions.

why don't you just lightly mod the nsx? a na1 with intake, header and exhaust should be quicker than a 996 c4s. it will save you a fortune and the headache of having to sell the nsx and having to find a clean porsche.

NSXLuvr · 27 November 2008

DCNSX said:
NSXLuvr- Porsche doesn't make a non-AWD "S" (widebody) model in the 996, as far as I am aware. (Let me know if I'm incorrect) Only the C4S. They did make 993 and 997 "S" models in 2WD. As price is a big issue, I'll probably end up with a C2 w/ aero kit - there are also more of those available.

Sorry - shows you how much I know about porshce's. Are you looking for a DE car or a track car. A 996 "track" car(roll cage, lightened up, susp. aligment, and brakes) is a awesome car!!

I would just find a track sorted 996 DE car and mod it or buy one that is already modded. The brakes and the ability of the 911 to rotate around tight corners is amazing!!

docjohn · 27 November 2008

s14_tat said:
why don't you just lightly mod the nsx? a na1 with intake, header and exhaust should be quicker than a 996 c4s. it will save you a fortune and the headache of having to sell the nsx and having to find a clean porsche.

Here is another second for keeping the nsx if you prefer the style and ergonomics; for the difference in price between selling your nsx and buying the propper porsche,you can mod the nsx to be both a better track car and still daily drive.

stuntman · 27 November 2008

docjohn said:
Here is another second for keeping the nsx if you prefer the style and ergonomics; for the difference in price between selling your nsx and buying the propper porsche,you can mod the nsx to be both a better track car and still daily drive.

You can find a clean $25-30K 996 in similar conditions as a $25-30K NSX.

ANYTIME · 27 November 2008

docjohn said:
Here is another second for keeping the nsx if you prefer the style and ergonomics; for the difference in price between selling your nsx and buying the propper porsche,you can mod the nsx to be both a better track car and still daily drive.

what he said

eNeSeX 95T · 27 November 2008

Plus 996 porsches are booooooooooring.

stuntman · 27 November 2008

eNeSeX 95T said:
Plus 996 porsches are booooooooooring.

Stock yes, play with the camber and caster, they are SOOO much fun.

And obviously stock 996TTs are fun

Matt_337 · 27 November 2008

If you want the widebody look of the C4S and dislike the AWD, can't you just do the RWD conversion?

I know there were a bunch of 996TT owners who did the conversion to RWD and it was like a $1000 mod. Completely reversible too. I don't know if the C4S is the same conversion.

Search on 6speedonline for this mod

menfou · 28 November 2008

My NSX(Yokohama Parada+R888+Header+Exhaust+Tein Monoflex) Vs Porsche 997 4S

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dY8U1igxrXk

nsxhk · 29 November 2008

menfou said:
My NSX(Yokohama Parada+R888+Header+Exhaust+Tein Monoflex) Vs Porsche 997 4S

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=dY8U1igxrXk

Great driving! With 500hp, I'm surprised you took that long to overtake the porsche. :wink:

s14_tat · 29 November 2008

nsxhk said:
Great driving! With 500hp, I'm surprised you took that long to overtake the porsche. :wink:

that sounded more like when he was still na.

menfou · 29 November 2008

I had only 300hp at the crank at this moment, no 500

ANYTIME · 1 December 2008

eNeSeX 95T said:
Plus 996 porsches are booooooooooring.

Yep, very boring. Reality is they are sooo disconnected from the driver that you can appreciate the NSX like nothing else.

DCNSX · 11 December 2008

Thanks for all the replies. And thanks for reminding me what a great car the NSX is. as a C4S is not in the budget now, I will just put my $$ into seat time, which is the most fun anyway.

stuntman · 11 December 2008

DCNSX said:
Thanks for all the replies. And thanks for reminding me what a great car the NSX is. as a C4S is not in the budget now, I will just put my $$ into seat time, which is the most fun anyway.

Good job! INVEST in the nut behind the wheel, it will pay much higher returns in terms of lap time and enjoyment than any part you can bolt onto your car.

BD · 11 December 2008

I have a customer with a 996 C4. He took me for a ride just couple of weeks ago when I show him the iPhone app Dynolicious. He wasn't even trying, with me in the car, the car pulled 5.8 seconds 0-60. I understand with hard launch, NSX is faster, but for regular driving, that engine has more torque and it is very smooth.

I also drove my friend's 2005 997, standard model and it also felt very nice. The only complaint I have with 911 is they do sit high, even higher than my S2k.

Over all, if I'm in the market for a 996, I can only bring my self to the Turbo, simply because I know that car is worth every penny of it.

NSXLuvr · 31 December 2008

What about this one. Seems like a great deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200292181586&sspagename=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&viewitem=

No affiliation, yada yada!

'91 NSX vs. '02-'04 Carrera 4S

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