93 Forumla Red - street car that will see track.

[illwillem]

Very nice start, If I were you i'd flexane (or install) hardened motor mounts while you are in there, especially the front mount and DS since you can get to them rather easily from the top once the coolant bottle and coolant hoses and air box are removed.

Dont listen to the turbo/SC hype NA is the ONLY way to go for the track. If you do the Timing belt at some point do the oil pump gear at the same time (i blew mine on track) and at minimum throw a timing belt guard on there behind the crank pulley. Also check your VVIS screws and locktite them in since they are likely loose and getting ready to fall into you motor. Another bit of advise is when you remove the A arms take pictures when they are on the car to refer back too. The FSM and logic do not apply when trying to figure out their proper orientation especially when doing the mental gymnastics of trying to figure out which way to align the camber sleeves on top of everything.

Also what size is that steering wheel? looks a tad bit small. I bumped up 2 sizes to another personal wheel after my first couple track days in the NSX, its MUCH easier to get leverage on the larger version when on R comps and it amplifies the micro movements and steering feel.

 

[Stook2003]

Will, Thanks for the advise. I will look into engine mounts, from what I can remember, they are not super expensive. Building this car is a slippery slope you probably know better than me haha.

My timing belt was done about 5k miles ago back in 2012, but the previous guy didn't do the water pump at the same time. I am just going to wait for a bit, hopefully water pump doesnt give me trouble.
I am all NA now, i don't quite enjoy turbo cars anymore other than doing drag racing. My 997tt is fast and all on the track with proper set up, but it's no where near as fun as my 3.2 carrera. This really shows you don't need much power to have one; driving experience/dynamic is what matters.

As for the A arms, I am thinking to assemble everything onto the inner uprights and install everything as a whole unit since i will be removing the uprights to get dave's bearings. I will make sure to make them for the sides when I send them to titanium dave. one question for you, do you have both upper and lower comptech bushings? were you be able to get enough camber in the front to run nt01s.

it's a 350mm steering wheel, perfect for me IMO. I only drove it around my house after I put it on, lover it. much easier to turn than the stock wheel. Unfortunately, it's slightly off center on the hub, no more adjustment available other than doing it on the tie rods.

I remember you mentioned that you have the Dali high capacity oil pan, I am having one made right now by them. Also had a baffle welded in my stock pan today just in case the wait is too long. Was is really a pita to install because the extension on the sides which blocks the access to the bolts? Do you think I will need accusump an with +2 quarts pan if I plan to run nt01s and maybe try a set of r6.
Thanks!

 

[illwillem]

Oh man slippery slip indeed, especially after the first time out on the track. Its a SUPER rewarding car to drive fast correctly, even in NA form its as fast if not faster than a lot of high HP turbo stuff. The 3.2 Porsche is a pretty close comparison in driving feel, i'm sure you'll jump right into the NSX and feel at home.

For my inner uprights I had tiDave do an offset bushing on bottom and I use a camber lobe only in the top of the wheel hub, you can see here:



I think for me it was easier popping the front of the upper A arms ball joints off when they were on the car, also if you pressing in the CT bushings you have to separate everything anyways. Putting it back as a whole would be a bit unweildy too since once you remove the inner upright the center beam falls out too and your steering rack is just floating there.


You'll also have to thread the front compliance assembly bolts under the head lights. I would recommend reassembly starting in the center and working your way outward, piece by piece its not difficult when you do it that way.

I ended up having an adjustable lobe made for the top if the hub carrier and not using the CT bushings. With the tiDave offset bushings in the lower holes of the inner uprights and the adjustable upper bushing I can easily get over -4 if I wanted. I cocked the upper lobe in and rearward to bump it slightly increase caster as well. The ONLY downside is that when uncompresing the suspension the coilover rests on the upper A arm, not that big of a deal.

Putting that front sway bar on with this set up is a bit of a PITA with the interference of the lower radiator hoses, If you havent you should look into some adjustable endlinks to make it a bit easier, though you'll need to properly space the, out so they aren't binding.

i posted in a thread a bit back with part number and sizes of the spacers you'll need.

The hub being off center on your wheel wont really matter now since you have to realign the car after you take apart all of the suspension.


I had the Dali pan but I returned it for various reasons and went with an OEM pan with a welded baffle and an accusump kit.

The Accusump is a totally different principal over the high capacity pan. Accusump is a sort of a 'two in one', it increases the capacity 2 or 3 qts depending on the size you get but also creates a buffer between your oil pump and the oil feed. As you drive with the sump 'on' the pressure in the oil system is filling and releasing oil from the canister as needed. As you rev, It stores the oil at under its own in canister pressure so that if theres a drop in mechanical pressure for whatever reason the built up pressurized oil in the sump will release and feed the motor until it comes back or you have a chance shut it down. With the high capacity pan that extra oil is there, but just sitting in the pan and thats not where you need it.
When I blew my oil gear the accusump is the only thing that saved me from needing an entire long block and not just main bearings and a gear and housing.

Its really a no brainier if you plan on doing an oil cooler at some point too. My OEM pan with baffle, 19 row oil cooler, sump and lines bumps my oil capacity way, WAY up. You'll be fine for a while, but I would very much so consider it if you are going out with R comps.

the stream of conscious reply means im late for lunch :] lemme know if nothing made sense.

 

[Stook2003]

Thanks for the information! You are keeping me on the right path, I will shoot you a pm to discuss the dali pan.

Dave was recommending me to get only one of the comptech bushings pressed in with his offset lower upright bushings, I think I will go that route.

I was not looking to remove the front compliance part of the suspension if I can separate the ball joint there, I should know by tonight as the honda tool is arriving today. I am getting some Dave's front drop links for the dali bar and just use the factory links for the rear zanardi bar.

I have thought about having an accusump, but the hassle to install it is what keeps me away from it so far. Hell I should just pull the trigger and get cooler and accusump and get over with it. Do you have the whole set up from SOS?

 

[illwillem]

The space behind the front compliance assembly to pop the ball joint out of is pretty tight. I have after market ball joints that have a zerk fittings on the back side so i couldn't fit the tool OEM tool around it. If your OEM you should maybe be OK. Just remember when popping the ball joint to thread regular (not castle) nuts all the way down the shaft, not just over the cotter holes. You can easily mushroom the cotter pin holes or bend the shaft itself those bastards take some serious force to 'pop' them out of the sockets, its by far the worst part about working on the suspension.

Good idea, you should be fine with the OEM rear links on a zanardi bar.

The accusump is actually not that hard to install, MUCH easier than doing all the stuff you already are with the front suspension. Theres an OEM port you jump off the fuse block, run a wire to a switch and just mount the canaster per the instruction in the back right of the trunk firewall.

When installed my first one was a SOS oil cooler + sump kit and came with everything that was needed. Im now running a revised set up, better heat exchanger ducted to the right side air pod mounted differently, I also ditched the electric pull fan that was on the SOS unit and the god forsaken barbed fittings. All that I am using from that kit at the moment is the sandwich plate. The SOS unit will work, but i saw room for improvement for my application.

 

[I1O101I]

Thank Bryan! I'd kill for a set of brembo indys, too expensive for me. I even cheaped out on the stoptech trophys after i found out the only difference is 1lb saving per caliper.

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Ive been looking for a set of brembo indys for 7 years, I just pick them up 3 months ago, I jumped on them as soon as I saw them.



Bryan

 

[Stook2003]

Thanks man! Got the ball joint tool today, and it looks like a nice piece of tool. almost worth the price tag haha.
I did the tie rod ball joint with another tool and used the castle nut, and destroyed it. I have since bought a couple m10 and m 12 nuts, just for this purpose. I am going to get to it tonight and hopefully no breaking parts.

as for the accusump, did you have the canister mounted inside the trunk or in the passenger side fender well?

The space behind the front compliance assembly to pop the ball joint out of is pretty tight. I have after market ball joints that have a zerk fittings on the back side so i couldn't fit the tool OEM tool around it. If your OEM you should maybe be OK. Just remember when popping the ball joint to thread regular (not castle) nuts all the way down the shaft, not just over the cotter holes. You can easily mushroom the cotter pin holes or bend the shaft itself those bastards take some serious force to 'pop' them out of the sockets, its by far the worst part about working on the suspension.

Good idea, you should be fine with the OEM rear links on a zanardi bar.

The accusump is actually not that hard to install, MUCH easier than doing all the stuff you already are with the front suspension. Theres an OEM port you jump off the fuse block, run a wire to a switch and just mount the canaster per the instruction in the back right of the trunk firewall.

When installed my first one was a SOS oil cooler + sump kit and came with everything that was needed. Im now running a revised set up, better heat exchanger ducted to the right side air pod mounted differently, I also ditched the electric pull fan that was on the SOS unit and the god forsaken barbed fittings. All that I am using from that kit at the moment is the sandwich plate. The SOS unit will work, but i saw room for improvement for my application.

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That's awesome man!

Ive been looking for a set of brembo indys for 7 years, I just pick them up 3 months ago, I jumped on them as soon as I saw them.



Bryan

 

[Stook2003]

well guys, fuxked up big time while removing the front lower control arm today, the ball joint rod just would not give. I end up broke the bushing in the front pivot and likely the ball joint is bust on that one.
need some serious help, and i am afraid to remove other arms now.

 

[illwillem]

well, shit, that sucks. I similarly popped a bushing out of the hub carrier the same way, luckily it was one that I was going to replace anyways. I wish I could tell you that aren't all potentially like that. Remember all the suspension is forged aluminum you do NOT want to whack it with a hammer like you would a steel housed ball joint. you could soak them in penetrating oil then gently tap them as you apply pressure. All the balljoints are really the worst part about the car.

Steven Ghent. He offers a ball joint replacement service, its what I have, its NOT cheap or fast (typically) but the quality is excellent. it will require you to take off and seperate all the arms to send them in, i suppose you can only fix the damaged ones, but the new ones he'll put in are very firm and tighter than the OEM ones you have.

You can PM http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/131993-NSX-Ball-Joint-Replacement

 

[Stook2003]

Thanks man!
yea, it sucks. I almost flipped when that happened and I was using a 200 dollar plus Honda too. the prices of new control arm flashed a few times over my head, steve will be a bit cheaper than buying new control arm, right?

Later I removed the other side without issues, but I took the whole suspension assembly off first and made sure i positioned the tool perfect and used a impact gun to turn the tool.
I removed the rear beam too and will send it with control arms, inner uprights, the bushing less front pivot to Titaniumdave. He said he maybe able to save that ball joint and get the stuck bushing off. if not, we will have to send it to steve. Also luckily the broken bushing on the front pivot is the same as the one on the upper control arm, so we can just swap those out when the comptech ones go in; otherwise, i have to get the whole assembly, honda doesn't sell the bushings alone.

 

[RagingAngel]

Lookin' good Boss! :biggrin:

 

[Stook2003]

Yo Gangster! Thanks man!!

 

[Ko-nsx]

you should definitely buy headers since you've come this far.

 

[Stook2003]

id love to get headers with proper exhaust and stuff. I am just running short on cash and way exceed my planned budget for the car this year. it's a slippery slope once you start sliding, its very hard to stop lol

 

[GUNDAN323]

Let us know what size spacers are/will be using to fit the Stoptech ST40 bbk with the TE37 SL in 17x8 +38 and 18x10 +40.

 

[Ko-nsx]

id love to get headers with proper exhaust and stuff. I am just running short on cash and way exceed my planned budget for the car this year. it's a slippery slope once you start sliding, its very hard to stop lol

Headers and exhaust show nice gains for na1. Get rid of a set off wheels!!

 

[Stook2003]

Let us know what size spacers are/will be using to fit the Stoptech ST40 bbk with the TE37 SL in 17x8 +38 and 18x10 +40.

I think no spacer would needed for those wheels. those should clear the stoptechs without issues.

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Headers and exhaust show nice gains for na1. Get rid of a set off wheels!!

good idea. i should sell the advans and get exhaust with headers.

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UPDATE:
While waiting for the parts to come back from titaniumdave, i installed a set of oem length arp wheel studs. Later when tested with Stoptech rotor and wheel, those studs are indeed too short to be used with stoptech BBK, I can only get 2-3 full turns on the threads. so if you are thinking replace the studs and run bbk, go with the extended ones.


I am also getting a 3 quarts Accusump, anyone know where I can get a 12V source that will be hot when ignition is on in the rear of the car, near trunk?

 

[Velocitized]

I am also getting a 3 quarts Accusump, anyone know where I can get a 12V source that will be hot when ignition is on in the rear of the car, near trunk?

Nice work!

The main fuse/relay box in the engine compartment is probably your best bet to find a good solid 12V source.

 

[Stook2003]

Nice work!

The main fuse/relay box in the engine compartment is probably your best bet to find a good solid 12V source.

Thanks! I think i have found a source for the 12v in the engine bay fuse box. was reading nsxbuilder's website and he had it pointed out. Thanks to him.

 

[Stook2003]

got all the stuff back from titaniumdave last week and started reassemble of the car. so far only front brakes, sway bars and exhaust system left to do. oh and reinstall the oil pan because 10ft/lbs of torque that shop manual calls will destroy the gasket.

 

[jwmelvin]

Awesome progress. Thank you for sharing all the pictures. You must be excited to drive the car again.

-Jason

 

[Stook2003]

Thanks Jason! I really can't wait to have it back on the ground. it's been over 2 months since last I drove it. I bet the upgrades will only make it much more exciting to drive.

 

[myw]

amazing build! wow.

 

[Stook2003]

Thanks myw!!

 

[docjohn]

It is tough when you make performance upgrades and have to delay experiencing them.