ABS Rebuild?

[goldNSX]

I'm not sure if the RSX ABS is a step back as the RSX has a completely different weight distribution and the ABS electronics are programmed by model. Maybe it's even better to keep the old pump then. Remind, the ABS system is designed to be able to direct a car around an obstacle in an emergency situation where every inch counts. Those manoeuvres mean heavy and strong weight transfers within a fraction of a second. That's why I don't like mixing different brake setup like 97+ brakes with 91 ABS or the like.
@MvM: I'd leave the car as is as it has been released with this brakes from the factory.

 

[Sudesh]

There are two guys here have Integra ABS and using the NSX TCS computer inside the cabin. I think the only parts they bought was 3 brake line and the proportioning valve.

The RSX ABS did give a TSC code.

Maybe they would post their setup.

Now this is interesting!

Did they post any threads on this? Anyway of getting in contact with them and asking for pics and bit of insight as to how the system is going for them?

 

[d.n]

I thought about this some more after biting back my original thoughts. What exactly is in the logic of how the ABS ECU decides which wheel to pulse and for how long? Are we all just making stuff up and assuming there is a complicated formula regarding weight transfer, vehicle speed, etc or is there some actual real working knowledge behind this? Could it actually be as crude as pulse the wheel(s) that lock up compared to the others?

Remember that the ABS works in the dry and wet, uneven surfaces, etc when tossing out the weight transfer argument. We don't have a G / yaw sensor or a steering angle sensor, but we do have overall speed and number of rotations each wheel is doing.

Does anybody actually know what's going on in there before we discount this potentially great idea?

 

[Chris NSX]

Now this is interesting!

Did they post any threads on this? Anyway of getting in contact with them and asking for pics and bit of insight as to how the system is going for them?

Jay "syndicate" and Ravi "ravi4l".

I drove Ravi NSX for a short drive to test his brakes with his ABS upgrade, I only could lockup the front brakes. I did not get the ABS to activate, the road was dry, need to try on sand or gravel.

Also Ravi has Brembo Big brakes in the Front.

 

[syndicate]

Jay "syndicate" and Ravi "ravi4l".

I drove Ravi NSX for a short drive to test his brakes with his ABS upgrade, I only could lockup the front brakes. I did not get the ABS to activate, the road was dry, need to try on sand or gravel.

Also Ravi has Brembo Big brakes in the Front.

While I did not want to say anything about this yet as I was still developing a plug and play kit for Prime members.........it seems the cat is out of the bag. A while back, I decided to install a newer Integra ABS pump into my NSX to stop my ancient ABS pump from squealing at startup. I have no lights on and everything works (ie. my pump kicks on at start up and also under extreme braking). My TCS works fine as well. The only issue I have is the brake bias. The back locks because the factory proportioning valve is built into the older NSX ABS monstrosity. So currently, I do not have one. Ravi ordered me the newer NSX proportioning valve and some lines and I will install those when they come in. I also installed and tested the RSX pump into Ravi's NSX, but that causes the TCS light to come on because the RSX does not have TCS output wires coming out of the ABS built-in brain like the older NSX ABS brain and the newer NSX pump. That being said, I got everything else to work for the RSX pump, but the 4 TCS signal wires were not hooked up thus throwing the TCS light on. The schematics I have on the older ABS system show the TCS signal wires to be different colors than the wheel speed sensors so I wasn't sure if the signal changes inside of the ABS brain or not so because this was NOT my car, I felt it was safer not to jump the sensor wires past the ABS brain to the TCS unit. After this delemma, Ravi decided to go to my style ABS system (Integra), but he could not get the pump to turn on. I was not there for this installation so the issue could be bad ABS pump or bad installation.
I really wish I could have had enough time to create the kit for Prime Members before the prices shot up and everyone panicked. Ohhhh welll. Once I get the proportioning valve installed, I will update everyone on my progress.

Jay

 

[macninja77]

call acura honda auto dism they have parts 916-859-0025

 

[MrHugo]

Thanks for trying to find a cheaper alternative to the NA2 ABS upgrade. Meanwhile, I am deciding if I should go for the ABS Killer kit or just deal with the ABS clicking sound. I feel unsafe to brake when I see bumps because ABS kicks in when I hit bumps and I lose control. Driving me nuts.

 

[syndicate]

Thanks for trying to find a cheaper alternative to the NA2 ABS upgrade. Meanwhile, I am deciding if I should go for the ABS Killer kit or just deal with the ABS clicking sound. I feel unsafe to brake when I see bumps because ABS kicks in when I hit bumps and I lose control. Driving me nuts.

Well, so far, my kit works great. I just got a call and was told my proportioning valve is in today. So I will try to take care of that this weekend and I will update everyone on the brake bias situation. I wish I would have had one more month to put some miles on this kit...

 

[4811]

Is the Honda S2000 ABS modulator also a possibility?

If a S2000 also has TCS are there clues on how to connect the wires?

I just access to an ABS modulator from a guy who crashed his S2000, from every angle, its just look exactly the same as the NSX's one, no matter the shape, mounting points, no. of pins and pin layout...etc, they just look alike!!!

My problem is, I could hardly afford the plug & play harness which I would love to hear any advise on how the wiring work with the original NSX components....especially on the TCS part....

Just wonder if anyone who invested in the plug & play harness would like to share some info of it? Your help would save my NSX from making those noise forever

 

[syndicate]

I just access to an ABS modulator from a guy who crashed his S2000, from every angle, its just look exactly the same as the NSX's one, no matter the shape, mounting points, no. of pins and pin layout...etc, they just look alike!!!

My problem is, I could hardly afford the plug & play harness which I would love to hear any advise on how the wiring work with the original NSX components....especially on the TCS part....

Just wonder if anyone who invested in the plug & play harness would like to share some info of it? Your help would save my NSX from making those noise forever

Where are you located? I could build one for your car if I had the pump. If you are close, we could work on it or you could mail me the pump and let me design it on my NSX test bed. There is no point to getting the plug and play harness for 500 dollars if you have to destroy it to make the S2000 pump work with it. I could temporarily wire it up and make sure it actually works and then design the harness. Just an idea.

 

[4811]

I'm from the other side of the globe so it doesn't worth to mail the modulator around the world....:redface:

 

[syndicate]

I'm from the other side of the globe so it doesn't worth to mail the modulator around the world....:redface:

Lol...I figured you were far away.

 

[Honcho]

Jay-

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for spending your time and hard earned money to look into this modification. The NSX community is better because of folks like you and others who take the time to figure this stuff out. As Honda continues to discontinue parts and jack up the prices on the remaining bits, work like yours will become even more important in keeping our cars running in top form.

Please do not get discouraged. I am sure people would flock to you if you developed a plug and play system to replace our aging and ailing 91-99 units. Look at Hugabuga- he took some time, developed a great system and sold over 100 kits, including to me. I have Titanium Dave's harmonic damper shield as well. As our NSXs get older people like these will become ever more important.

Based on your posts, I think these are the issues that remain with any potential Integra/S2000 swap:

1. Is the anti-lock proportioning (i.e., pulse signal sent to each wheel) accomplished in (a) the ABS computer, (b) the proportioning valve, or (c) some combination of both?

2. Is the wheel speed input signal modified in any way as it passes through the ABS computer on its way to the TCS computer?

3. If, as you say, we use the NSX ABS computer (in glovebox) to control the Integra pump, how do you prevent the ABS computer mounted on the Integra pump from interfering? It seems like you would have two computers trying to control the ABS.

While I did not want to say anything about this yet as I was still developing a plug and play kit for Prime members.........it seems the cat is out of the bag. A while back, I decided to install a newer Integra ABS pump into my NSX to stop my ancient ABS pump from squealing at startup. I have no lights on and everything works (ie. my pump kicks on at start up and also under extreme braking). My TCS works fine as well. The only issue I have is the brake bias. The back locks because the factory proportioning valve is built into the older NSX ABS monstrosity. So currently, I do not have one. Ravi ordered me the newer NSX proportioning valve and some lines and I will install those when they come in. I also installed and tested the RSX pump into Ravi's NSX, but that causes the TCS light to come on because the RSX does not have TCS output wires coming out of the ABS built-in brain like the older NSX ABS brain and the newer NSX pump. That being said, I got everything else to work for the RSX pump, but the 4 TCS signal wires were not hooked up thus throwing the TCS light on. The schematics I have on the older ABS system show the TCS signal wires to be different colors than the wheel speed sensors so I wasn't sure if the signal changes inside of the ABS brain or not so because this was NOT my car, I felt it was safer not to jump the sensor wires past the ABS brain to the TCS unit. After this delemma, Ravi decided to go to my style ABS system (Integra), but he could not get the pump to turn on. I was not there for this installation so the issue could be bad ABS pump or bad installation.
I really wish I could have had enough time to create the kit for Prime Members before the prices shot up and everyone panicked. Ohhhh welll. Once I get the proportioning valve installed, I will update everyone on my progress.

Jay

 

[syndicate]

Jay-

I just wanted to say THANK YOU for spending your time and hard earned money to look into this modification. The NSX community is better because of folks like you and others who take the time to figure this stuff out. As Honda continues to discontinue parts and jack up the prices on the remaining bits, work like yours will become even more important in keeping our cars running in top form.

Please do not get discouraged. I am sure people would flock to you if you developed a plug and play system to replace our aging and ailing 91-99 units. Look at Hugabuga- he took some time, developed a great system and sold over 100 kits, including to me. I have Titanium Dave's harmonic damper shield as well. As our NSXs get older people like these will become ever more important.

Based on your posts, I think these are the issues that remain with any potential Integra/S2000 swap:

1. Is the anti-lock proportioning (i.e., pulse signal sent to each wheel) accomplished in (a) the ABS computer, (b) the proportioning valve, or (c) some combination of both?

2. Is the wheel speed input signal modified in any way as it passes through the ABS computer on its way to the TCS computer?

3. If, as you say, we use the NSX ABS computer (in glovebox) to control the Integra pump, how do you prevent the ABS computer mounted on the Integra pump from interfering? It seems like you would have two computers trying to control the ABS.

Thanks for your support. Im not discouraged... hell Im Encouraged more now than ever to find something that works good! I have nothing, but love for ChrisNSX and his gorgeous NSX :tongue:. I was afraid someone would hear about it and go out and do it themselves and wreck because they didn't know about the brake bias problem. I was driving around for a long time while waiting for the stupid proportioning valve to come in and I know how dangerous it is to have the back lock up before the front....especially at speed. Anyways, thanks for the kind words..

To answer your questions:

1)The pulse signal is seen through the speed sensors on the wheels and is sent to the ABS module behind the glovebox. This will then send a solenoid activation signal to the various solenoids in the ABS pump. The proportioning valve just applies less braking force to the rear brakes versus the fronts. This is purely mechanical and has no electronics related to it whatsoever. So basically, when wheel slip occurs, it is seen in the ABS computer and it is completely controlled from there.

2)This is the question of the hour. I see in the schematics, speed sensor wires coming in 2 per wheel(so 8 wires) and coming out as 4 wires to the TPS. I am not sure if it gets converted from analog to digital or what. Ideally, life would be perfect if I could just jump the positive from each wheel speed sensor to the respective output wire to the TPS, but knowing my luck, that will cause the 4 riders of the apocalypse to descend and end the world....oh and fry my ecu. So I haven't tried it yet.

3)The Teggy pump does not have a built in computer which is why I used it.

Jay