AEM EMS 30-1042 & AEM failsafe.

[MetalSpikeRacing]

Hey guys,
My car got tuned last night it made 450 on 91 octane at 9psi.
But when we tried to ad methanol and set the failsafe, we found out that the gauge it self runs at 12 volts and the EMS outputs can only hold 5 volts.
Needless to say that put a halt to last runs of our dyno session.(at 2am)

What are you guys doing to be able to run the Failsafe to the EMS? I will be heading back on friday, the tuner said he will put a relay in to manage the signal.

I dont get why would the AEM gauge not have a 5v input to work with the EMS, it was meant to work together!!

We dont want to run the failsafe to the boost selenoid, we want to be able to retard timing instead of boost.

Thank you for your feed back in advance.

-MSR

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I'm a little confused AEM has 12 volt inputs, you can also switch to ground instead of power as well on an aem failsafe gauge, and the AEM EMS can see this too.

Edit:Nevermind now I'm even more confused

The AEM Failsafe gauges comes with its own AFR sensor does it not? What 5 volt signal are you trying to send to the gauge.

The way I believe it works, you setup your limits in the software and the failsafe outputs 12v or ground on a wire to an input on your EMS. You then have a few options for what you want to do from there. You can setup a nitrous control to retard timing, or just cut the engine all together.

 

[MetalSpikeRacing]

No the gauge comes with a flow sensor.
And the gauge outputs are 12v, the AEM EMS can only handle 5v.
For some reason the nitrous inputs were not working, it wasnt retarding timing or anything!

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I was thinking the wide band gauge sorry. Can the signal be inverted to supple a ground? Or you can just use a relay. This would allow you to hook it to pin c9 as a switched input for 2 step or nitrous control.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Just wanted to add some more to this. The AEM optional 5 volt inputs are for analog sensors like temp, pressures, wideband, stuff like that. This is just for reading/logging. Most of these optional 5v inputs can't be used as a trigger directly in the EMS though. Only sensors like Intake air temp, coolant temp, wideband, and a couple others can directly affect the tune. This is why you need to read it externally and then send the trigger to the EMS. AEM has switched inputs which are for triggers or any type of on/off signals. This is the type of signal the failsafe would be sending. These switched inputs are what can trigger a 2 step or a nitrous map.

I've spend the last few days working with the switched inputs because I'm working on the failsafe system for my digital display as we speak. I've setup boost cuts, lean protection, coolant temp protections, it could even read that flow sensor, compare it to RPM, Boost and AFR, and trigger similar to the failsafe gauge.

 

[MetalSpikeRacing]

Love it, Thank you for this info. Im positive it is foing to help us.
I though he (my Tuner) said that he will be using a relay to trigger the failsafe, so the EMS retards timing/adds more fuel.

I will pass your comments along to him.


Thanks again.

 

[DDozier]

The Failsafe is used to trigger the EMS, it does this by setting up the flow alarm in the Failsafe software. If you flow rate drops or exceeds a set level then the triggers are active and you can use the trigger to tell the ECU to do something different than you would if the Meth systems was working normally. If you are using the AEM Water/Methanol Failsafe P/N 30-3020, the unit has a 0-5v output for you to wire into any of the AEM ECU's analog input this will allow the flow data to be viewed or logged in the tuning software (wires White+ and Brown- are the 5v outputs). If you want to trigger the ECU or any other device you use the Yellow wire for 12v+ trigger or the Blue wire for a ground trigger.

Dave

- - - Updated - - -

Just wanted to add some more to this. The AEM optional 5 volt inputs are for analog sensors like temp, pressures, wideband, stuff like that. This is just for reading/logging. Most of these optional 5v inputs can't be used as a trigger directly in the EMS though. Only sensors like Intake air temp, coolant temp, wideband, and a couple others can directly affect the tune. This is why you need to read it externally and then send the trigger to the EMS. AEM has switched inputs which are for triggers or any type of on/off signals. This is the type of signal the failsafe would be sending. These switched inputs are what can trigger a 2 step or a nitrous map.

I've spend the last few days working with the switched inputs because I'm working on the failsafe system for my digital display as we speak. I've setup boost cuts, lean protection, coolant temp protections, it could even read that flow sensor, compare it to RPM, Boost and AFR, and trigger similar to the failsafe gauge.

Have you looked at using any of the unused EGT sensor inputs (ADCR 15-18) to the EMS, these are already configured for fuel compensation and can be used for any sensor input not just EGT.

- - - Updated - - -

Love it, Thank you for this info. Im positive it is foing to help us.
I though he (my Tuner) said that he will be using a relay to trigger the failsafe, so the EMS retards timing/adds more fuel.

There is NOS(nitrous) control in the EMS as well, it allows for triggered outputs as well as Fuel and Timing Corrections based on an input, you can use the NOS features in the EMS to do everything you want the failsafe to do. If you setup the input of a switch to the EMS to indicate all is well and the meth system is working then you use the NOS trims to add timimg and reduce fuel depending on the meth/water ratio. If the failsafe triggers a fault the switch input to the EMS needs to change and the trims will not happen and you will be back to your static non-meth tune.

Dave

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I'm not a tuner so I haven't dealt with tuning all aspect of AEM EMS, just a few things here and there. Learning more and more as I progress through my Digital Display. I haven't had to used the EGT inputs. If the EGT could control ignition this would be a great feature to use for many things, like E85 mapping etc.

I did notice in the AEM Pro software an option for an analog input switch. You can set minimum and maximum voltages from a 5 volt sensor to trigger switch #7, and then use that to trigger the nitrous map or 2 step. So I guess you can use a 5 volt sensor to trigger some features indirectly, although not very useful without mapping the sensor to rpm or afr or anything. I suppose this would allow you to use the flex fuel sensor for complete fuel mapping via the EGT fuel trims, and then use a minimum threshold to trigger the nitrous map to add timing. Not the best but better than nothing for flex fuel.

 

[DDozier]

I'm not a tuner so I haven't dealt with tuning all aspect of AEM EMS, just a few things here and there. Learning more and more as I progress through my Digital Display. I haven't had to used the EGT inputs. If the EGT could control ignition this would be a great feature to use for many things, like E85 mapping etc.

I did notice in the AEM Pro software an option for an analog input switch. You can set minimum and maximum voltages from a 5 volt sensor to trigger switch #7, and then use that to trigger the nitrous map or 2 step. So I guess you can use a 5 volt sensor to trigger some features indirectly, although not very useful without mapping the sensor to rpm or afr or anything. I suppose this would allow you to use the flex fuel sensor for complete fuel mapping via the EGT fuel trims, and then use a minimum threshold to trigger the nitrous map to add timing. Not the best but better than nothing for flex fuel.

The NOS inputs would be perfect combined with a sensor from Zeitronics or GM to deal witht he E85 issues. You can do both fuel and timing referenced to load and RPM without changing anything in the setup. You have to stop looking at the lables on the maps and sensors and think outside the box. You can really make the EMS do anything you would need on a NSX. It is really a very capable piece of equipment. The next step and a huge leap forward in engine management is the Infinity, I am still playing wth the software so I can figure out as many of the possibilities as I can, but when you can make any sensor part of any trim table the level of control really is OEM level. I just hope the stability is there but I will hopefully find that out soon on my car.

Just keep thinking like you are and you will figure the EMS out, you have to stop looking at the literal and start seeing the possible with the ECU, since there are a lot of the features preconfigured most people never look beyond the labels on the table or sensors.

Dave

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I understand that the nitrous maps can be used for anything not just nitrous, hence why I said to use the nitrous maps when the e85 gets above a certain level. They are only on or off, this can work but is not ideal. The closest I think you could get to a true flex fuel tune on an AEM EMS is to use the EGT inputs to trim the fuel maps at all e85 percentages, and then have the nitrous map trigger at a certain percentage of e85 to begin controlling timing. Is there a better way?

 

[Juice]

The next step and a huge leap forward in engine management is the Infinity, I am still playing wth the software so I can figure out as many of the possibilities as I can, but when you can make any sensor part of any trim table the level of control really is OEM level. I just hope the stability is there but I will hopefully find that out soon on my car.

Dave, I hope you start a new thread when you are ready to share what you are learning with the Infinity. I know there are others out there working with it, but so far there has not been much info shared.

 

[DDozier]

Dave, I hope you start a new thread when you are ready to share what you are learning with the Infinity. I know there are others out there working with it, but so far there has not been much info shared.

There is at least one working Infinity System in a FI NSX, it is not mine but I hope to someday. My F/IC is serving me just fine but I have hi hopes for the Infinity and its extra DBW controller. I am working on the hardware now to be able to run the vane controllers on my variable vane turbos via the spare DBW control. If and when I get things working on the Infinity a build thread for my entire setup will be made as I will have reached my design goals for the car and it will be declared "DONE".

Dave

- - - Updated - - -

I understand that the nitrous maps can be used for anything not just nitrous, hence why I said to use the nitrous maps when the e85 gets above a certain level. They are only on or off, this can work but is not ideal. The closest I think you could get to a true flex fuel tune on an AEM EMS is to use the EGT inputs to trim the fuel maps at all e85 percentages, and then have the nitrous map trigger at a certain percentage of e85 to begin controlling timing. Is there a better way?

You are right, the NOS is looking for a trigger not a variable input to reference. Not ideal but you can have a "normal" condition trigger the NOS map to add timing if the E85% is correct. This would be enough to deal with E85 variances but for a true FlexFuel option you would need to use the EGT maps like you have described for fuel control as you move from gas to E85.

Dave