Am I crazy or... JH4NA2160WT000166

[enkrypt3d]

Run away.

Why? Most if not all of the issues are purely cosmetic...

 

[ISONSX]

Re: Am I crazy or...

I personally would pass on this car. I just bought my 3rd NSX ('97 Spa Yellow Pearl / Black) with 30K miles, stock other than HRE 18/19s and Comptech exhaust a few months ago. I evaluated the pros and cons of numerous cars before selecting this one. There is nothing inherently wrong with higher mileage cars since we all know the Honda quality but wait for a better one in better condition.

I am a car dealer in the Fort Laid area, and here is my scope. When a dealer is selling a car for way to cheap there is a reason, ALL dealers know what the cars they buy are worth, there is NEVER such a thing as we buy cheap and sell cheap, if they buy cheap they bought the wrong car PERIOD.

At auction the sellers know what the car is worth and if it gets bid to low the seller does not sell, just waits for another week.

BTW here is a copy of ALL the auction sales for 1998 NSX at Manheim Auto Auctions, the BIGGEST auction house in the country..

05/09/06 BALTWASH Lease $28,200 56,272 Above SILVER 6G 6 No
05/12/05 BAY CITI Regular $36,000 72,560 Above WHITE 6G M Yes
03/10/05 MANHEIM Regular $37,300 65,299 Above YELLOW 6G Yes
12/09/04 RIVRSIDE Regular $38,250 74,014 Above RED 6G M Yes
11/18/04 MANHEIM Regular $42,200 20,177 Above RED 6G 6 Yes
10/21/04 MANHEIM Regular $38,000 43,275 Above RED 6G 6 Yes


NSamX

My '97 actually came through the Manheim High-line auction in Riverside. I have a good friend that owns a high line dealership in my town that I do business with from time to time and had him pull the auction price my dealer paid after I bought it. There are no such things as too good to be true - you get what you pay for. Why my car went through an aution is anyone's guess - it is a "A" quality car in all aspects. I can't imagine spending $8K on rims and auctioning the car off.

NSamX, do me a favor and don't post the results for my '97 here from the Manheim database since I paid many thousands more than the auction price.

 

[MCM]

Upon starting the car, it wouldn't start. So the dealer had to jump the car to get it to start. (first strange event) bad battery I hope?

(Short? Alt?, no fun)-----------------------------------------------------------------
Then the engine was giving some strange vibrations that u could feel in the drivers seat which concerned me.

(I would walk away right there)-------------------------------------------------------------------
The carpet in the trunk smelled of mold which needs to be replaced and the molding around the trunk needs to be replaced. Looks like it had leaked in the past.

There's no jack or air compressor. Only a Tire Iron and a screw driver.

(I picture it being hit, stored outside in the weather with the trunk open.
Tools got ripped.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The drivers side speaker didn't work. They claimed it was because they took the drivers side door panel off and probably didn't reconnect it... weird. They didn't really specify why they took it off to begin with.


They said the latch that is on the drivers side door was loose so maybe that's why it was opened up?

Maybe? But it is the door that does not line up, right?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

The frame around AC vents at the top of the center console was busted and the vents on the passenger side on the side of the dash (where the door meets the vents) was loose...

Was probably disassembled my an amateur.
Wonder if the short is in there?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The tires were miss-matched and needed an alignment pretty severely.

Bad news. If your going to scrimp on tires, imagine what else you would scrimp on. Oil changes? Maint's in general sounds like.-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The glass over the engine wouldn't close without having to really close it hard. Same thing for the trunk lid.

Hard to say? Latch or alignment issue? Result from an accident?
Or maybe its normal? Are you familiar with how they close?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The drivers side door didn't properly line up with the rear drivers side fender....

Bad news, did you check for bondo? Previous frame damage?-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, the timing belt service has not been performed. I called the local Acura dealer and they said the clutch has been replaced at 30K miles?? wtf

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Sounds like you will have lots of $$$ in this car in the
1st week. And it still won't be right.---------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all I can remember. The original price is $36.9K. I talked them down to $35.8K. Is this a good deal considering the amount of work that needs to be done to get this car right?

No
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might only take $5k to get it right, of it could be much much more.
Tires, timing belt, trunk carpet & rubber, driver side door align, engine vibration, fr end alignment, tires, bodywork & paint- dr side, missing tools,
This looks like a lot more than $5k in repairs to me.
Why bother with it? Just spend a few bucks more for a mint example.
You will be money ahead.
There will never be a better selection of NSX's than today!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[enkrypt3d]

Upon starting the car, it wouldn't start. So the dealer had to jump the car to get it to start. (first strange event) bad battery I hope?

(Short? Alt?, no fun)-----------------------------------------------------------------
Then the engine was giving some strange vibrations that u could feel in the drivers seat which concerned me.

(I would walk away right there)-------------------------------------------------------------------
The carpet in the trunk smelled of mold which needs to be replaced and the molding around the trunk needs to be replaced. Looks like it had leaked in the past.

There's no jack or air compressor. Only a Tire Iron and a screw driver.

(I picture it being hit, stored outside in the weather with the trunk open.
Tools got ripped.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The drivers side speaker didn't work. They claimed it was because they took the drivers side door panel off and probably didn't reconnect it... weird. They didn't really specify why they took it off to begin with.


They said the latch that is on the drivers side door was loose so maybe that's why it was opened up?

Maybe? But it is the door that does not line up, right?


----------------------------------------------------------------------

The frame around AC vents at the top of the center console was busted and the vents on the passenger side on the side of the dash (where the door meets the vents) was loose...

Was probably disassembled my an amateur.
Wonder if the short is in there?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The tires were miss-matched and needed an alignment pretty severely.

Bad news. If your going to scrimp on tires, imagine what else you would scrimp on. Oil changes? Maint's in general sounds like.-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The glass over the engine wouldn't close without having to really close it hard. Same thing for the trunk lid.

Hard to say? Latch or alignment issue? Result from an accident?
Or maybe its normal? Are you familiar with how they close?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

The drivers side door didn't properly line up with the rear drivers side fender....

Bad news, did you check for bondo? Previous frame damage?-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, the timing belt service has not been performed. I called the local Acura dealer and they said the clutch has been replaced at 30K miles?? wtf

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Sounds like you will have lots of $$$ in this car in the
1st week. And it still won't be right.---------------------------------------------------------------------

That's all I can remember. The original price is $36.9K. I talked them down to $35.8K. Is this a good deal considering the amount of work that needs to be done to get this car right?

No
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
It might only take $5k to get it right, of it could be much much more.
Tires, timing belt, trunk carpet & rubber, driver side door align, engine vibration, fr end alignment, tires, bodywork & paint- dr side, missing tools,
This looks like a lot more than $5k in repairs to me.
Why bother with it? Just spend a few bucks more for a mint example.
You will be money ahead.
There will never be a better selection of NSX's than today!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the reply... I didn't see any bondo (I used to work for a body shop so I know what to look for)...... there is no question there has been some body work... front clip and drivers side skirts...

The battery probably just needs to be replaced and tighten the motor mount that MLmotorSport was talking about to fix the vibration... the rest is purely cosmetic dont u think?

I'm not expecting to find a mint 98 for $35K... It just won't happen. I'm willing to invest the money into the right car...

Plus I plan on updating the front bumper to the 2002 lights and all that....

 

[NuSensoryXperience]

I would totally avoid. There seems to be too many unknowns. The last thing you want to do is rush into a purchase because it meets 'half' of your requirements: price, year, miles, condition, color...... you get the point. How much better would you feel if you waited a little while longer and found one that didn't have issues/questionable history vs. buying this one and had to worry about getting a ton of items fixed/replaced and still have doubts about the whether or not the structure was sound to begin with? Its pretty clear to me.

Good luck with your search..... its worth the wait and the effort.

 

[enkrypt3d]

Would it be reasonable to ask the dealer for the contact information for the previous and only owner to find out more about the car? ...to fill in the blanks... Or would that just be asking too much?

I am thinking of having it inspected by the Acura dealer anyway and see what they say... what do u guys think?

 

[MLmotorsport]

Would it be reasonable to ask the dealer for the contact information for the previous and only owner to find out more about the car? ...to fill in the blanks... Or would that just be asking too much?

I am thinking of having it inspected by the Acura dealer anyway and see what they say... what do u guys think?

That's definitely a reasonable request. If the dealership purchased the car at an auction you may have to do some back-tracking to find the original owner but it will probably be worth it. I have owned a few cars that I wanted history on. Most recently I found that the previous owner of a 996 Cab I had was a pro golfer. He was fun to talk to. Be ready for the dealer to be unwilling to help though.

 

[Synthesis]

I would totally avoid. There seems to be too many unknowns. The last thing you want to do is rush into a purchase because it meets 'half' of your requirements: price, year, miles, condition, color...... you get the point. How much better would you feel if you waited a little while longer and found one that didn't have issues/questionable history vs. buying this one and had to worry about getting a ton of items fixed/replaced and still have doubts about the whether or not the structure was sound to begin with? Its pretty clear to me.

Good luck with your search..... its worth the wait and the effort.

exactly. one way or another you will end up paying the amount you are trying to avoid. you can either have this one that has been around the block with somebody who didn't know how to treat it, or you can wait a while longer and get a perfect example of a well maintained car.

The only way i would buy this car is if it had problems common with most other nsx's (speaker amp problem, window misaligned, abs solenoid problem, etc.), or more minor issues. even the engine doesn't start/idle correctly. not a good investment. you could buy a nice brand new car for that much. i say wait a couple more months and scrounge a couple more grand, cause, again, you'll easily spend that much fixing this sub-par nsx.

 

[Packard]

Not specifically on this subject, but related.

Deer damage represents the single largest expense for auto insurers.

Many companies quietly dropped deer damage from their collision coverage. You need to ask your agent if deer damage is covered. On my cars it cost an additional $60.00 per year. A good deal, because from my experience most deer don't carry adequate coverage on thier own.

All of which means that if the car did hit a deer the owner might not have had the funds to fix the car correctly, or the damage to the car may have been more extensive than has been acknowledged.

It sounds to me that the explanations offered could account for what you are seeing, but the alignment issues and paint mismatch could be a sign of more extensive damage.

In any case, guys--call your agent next week an find out for sure that you have coverage if you hit a deer. You might be surprised with what you hear.

 

[enkrypt3d]

That's definitely a reasonable request. If the dealership purchased the car at an auction you may have to do some back-tracking to find the original owner but it will probably be worth it. I have owned a few cars that I wanted history on. Most recently I found that the previous owner of a 996 Cab I had was a pro golfer. He was fun to talk to. Be ready for the dealer to be unwilling to help though.

Well I was told by the dealer that the previous owner is a baseball player for the cubs ... Not sure what he's doing in Georgia though haha

I'll see what I can do.... I'll keep you guys updated.

Thanks for all the input

 

[enkrypt3d]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=213084325&dealer_id=57347755&car_year=1998&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=ACURA&transmission=&model=NSX&distance=100&make2=&address=30316&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&body_code=0&end_year=2007&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1998&drive=&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=0

Ok the price has dropped to $34,995... it has jumped around from $39,995 to $37,995 ... but now its below what they *said* they paid for it.....

Even with the minor cosmetic things that it needs, and I'm not loaded by any means... I do have to work for my living... I can't continue to drop $ on rentals every month... I'm paying more now than I would if I had an NSX....... sigh

Waiting and saving up for a nicer one just isnt that practical for me right now... ugh I hate being in this position... :frown: :redface:

So u guys think the engine vibrations can be fixed by adjusting the motor mounts?

What other options do I have here? Its killing me having to drive around town in a fkin Cobalt LS....

 

[MLmotorsport]

Waiting and saving up for a nicer one just isnt that practical for me right now... ugh I hate being in this position... :frown: :redface:

So u guys think the engine vibrations can be fixed by adjusting the motor mounts?

What other options do I have here? Its killing me having to drive around town in a fkin Cobalt LS....

I wouldn't buy it unless I could have an experienced NSX tech look at the issues first. Even then I would want a reserve of a few grand available at all times for issues that may unexpectedly need immediate attention. Yes, these cars are reliable etc. etc. but fixes are expensive and sometimes time-consuming. Take for example me... I've dropped over $10k in my '92 for engine fixes and been w/out the thing since July - that was pretty unexpected. I'm an extreme example though. :smile:

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

Quite honestly for a 97+ Kaiser Silver, I say its pretty fairly priced considering what you mentioned. HOWEVER, this is also no substitute for a REAL NSX pro's look at it first.

I have a 97, and bought it 3 years ago with 108k and its now at 135k+. I've done quite a few mods so it was okay for me to buy one that needed general maintenance. Overall my car was all highways miles... If this is in the similar condition, then I say its a good deal.

But by what I read, it looks like the following:
Car was driven aggressive if clutch was done at 30k. Mine had the original on it until 96k.
Moisture leak into the trunk isn't uncommon, do a search to figure out how to take care of it.

Good Luck

 

[enkrypt3d]

The whole front bumper has been replaced due to the previous owner hitting a deer. Every body panel has some sort of paint blemish.

What do you mean by paint blemishes? Scratches , dents or paint defects from being repainted? You said you had body shop experience. How did you rate the work that was done? How many panels on the car were repainted? Was the deer accident a cash repair or insurance job?

I just meant very small dings on both doors (smaller than a dime) and some scratches on the roof and hood areas... There are also some very small but noticeable areas where the paint is kind of bubbled up in places like on the corners of the removable top... these things aren't all that noticeable until you really start inspecting the paint... but to me it would bug the crap out of me.

I work at a car dealer, I see plenty of cars (new and used) needing jump starts if its been in inventory for a while. But with a 10 year old car, it may be a bad battery as well as an alternator.

Yes this shouldn't be this big of a deal...

Weakening mounts may be the case. Did you feel this while at idle or while driving. At what RPMS? What speeds? Was the car fully warmed up? Dont justify buying this car and jumping to conclusions thinking this may be the easy repair mentioned by the other forum member. Squeaks/rattles/vibrations are one of the hardest things to isolate in car repairs. Hopefully it is an easy fix, however in my experience, vibrations on a 10 year old car can come from anywhere. Unless the mentioned vibration repair is common on all 1998 or all NSX's, its highly unlikely to be the same vibration. I would also forget thinking a tune up might fix this. You already mentioned this vehicle was in rough shape, possibly abused (clutch replaced at 30k) and involved in an accident.

No the engine was cold when I tried to start it. The vibrations were only felt when revving the engine between 100 rpms and 1200 rpms.. it seemed to subside a little after the car had warmed up.

Could be a prelude to a much larger problem. I have had new cars bought back by the manufacturer due to mold. We work with a company that specializes disinfecting bio hazards and they made the manufactuer buy back a 2005 Altima with 8,000 miles on it. Could also be a simple steam clean of the carpets. Have to see the car in person to decide.

Is that the common problem with NSX bose amps? I thought I read something about that here on the forum.

Yes these things seem to fail quite a bit .....replacing them is only about $175.

Did they blend the door for a color match when they refinished the sideskirts? If so, they may have removed the door lock itself instead of masking it. Maybe it was reinstalled incorrectly.

The colors seemed to be matched pretty well.. Altho I didn't exactly have a paint meter with me

The frame around AC vents at the top of the center console was busted and the vents on the passenger side on the side of the dash (where the door meets the vents) was loose...

Cosemtic, can be fixed..

What do you mean by mismatched tires? Different brands or non oem sizes? How worn were they? What brand were they? What do you mean by the alignment was servere? Was it pulling, weird tire wear? steering wheel off?

Meaning the 2 back tires were of the same brand ... but the 2 front tires were of different brands each. The tread left on each tire is about 40%... either way it needs an alignment and I wouldnt buy the car unless they had this done.

The glass over the engine wouldn't close without having to really close it hard. Same thing for the trunk lid.

Was it aligned properly when it was close? Was it an OEM glass?

Yes it seemed to line up properly.. u just had to slam it to close it... the harder u close it the more air pressure that builds up under the glass which makes it harder to close. I remember on my 91 all you had to do is press down on it and it would latch... maybe im getting old? lol

The drivers side door didn't properly line up with the rear drivers side fender....

How was the alignment on the hood/bumper/other fender? Again, relying on your body shop experience. If everything else lined up, this may be an indication of frame damage.

The hood and bumpers were lined up fairly well... but not perfect. The passenger side head light had some gaps around it. But I plan on upgrading the front end to the 2002+ spec anyways so it doesnt bother me that much. The driver's side door not lining up is only noticeable when you really get close and look at it. I imagine this can be fixed by a good body shop.

Also, the timing belt service has not been performed. I called the local Acura dealer and they said the clutch has been replaced at 30K miles?? wtf

What Acura dealer did you contact? Was it a cash job or warranty job? What was the date of the repair? Did they mention any other maintenance being performed? Were they complete or just the occasional oil change? What was the last date/ mileage of service (o2 sensor repair)?

The acura dealer is Sutton Acura in Macon, GA. They don't seem to know jack about the NSX which sucks. And I don't think I'd bring it there for the PPI either. I don't think it was under warranty when the 02 sensor was replaced...

- Sounds like a definate fixer upper. You said you were not able to take it to the dealer for an inspection because of availabilty. How far away was the dealer?

The Acura dealership is only a few exits up the highway from where the car is being sold.

You had to fly back to LA? Are you considering flying back to buy this car? If so, are you planning to drive it back or shipping it?

Yea I'm back in LA now. If I buy the car I would drive it back. Thats half the fun!

The reason why I am asking is that I too have been looking at used NSX's for the past few months. I have seen some very nice NSX's in CA tha I was willing to ship back (still negotiating on one of them :biggrin: ). Was wondering why you were considering buying one so far away since there are so many good condition NSX in your area.

Really where? I'm looking for a 97-98 silverstone... u know

Another thing to consider, depending on where this vehicle originally came from, was it one of those flood cars from last year?

Carfax is clean...(I can show u) the car has been in GA its whole life. There hasn't been any flooding in GA that I know of and I grew up there.

It does seem like a good price, But I would not be naive enough there would not be issues with this car after buying it.

What do you mean by this?

If you are up for the task, then this may be a good buy. Some people are not up for a project that this vehicle sounds like it might become. Someone stating earlier that the money you are saving on this car might be reinvested in repairs. That may (depending on what repairs), end up costing you what it would have cost to buy a better condition NSX.

Yes I understand your point... And trust me I'd love to have $45k just burning a hole in my pocket... if I did, this thread wouldn't exist

Thanks for the input.

 

[enkrypt3d]

If you could answer the questions I posted up, I might be able to give you a little more insight.

[email protected]

heh i did ... its inside the quoted message

 

[enkrypt3d]

HAHA, I didnt see it!

Anyhow, good luck with the search. This car may not be showroom condition, but not exactly all that bad from what youre saying for a 10 year old car. I would also like to think owners of this caliber vehicle would keep it nicer than your ordinary car. Might be an indication of how "well" it was taken care of. Just keep in mind that this sounds like a fixer upper.

Did the other dealer mention regular maintenance? or just warranty work?

The dealer only mentioned the car had been taken there occasionally....

The really strange part is this. When I first looked at the car it only had 2 records in the carfax report back from 1998... now 2 weeks ago I checked it again and now it has about 14 records... 12 new ones all from Sutton Acura...

How is this possible? The dates show that the "service" was performed at somewhat regular intervals.....

I didn't think it was possible for a dealer to enter data that far back in the past into carfax??

 

[NimbleSexyXquisite]

Re: Am I crazy or...

Too high a mileage for $42k, even with everything fixed up.

Hmmm...the Price has dropped to $34,995...What would be a good price for thise ride?

 

[enkrypt3d]

Re: Am I crazy or...

Hmmm...the Price has dropped to $34,995...What would be a good price for thise ride?

Its lower than what they said they would sell it to me for... and with a $10K down payment my payment will be lower than my lexus...

what do u think?

 

[NimbleSexyXquisite]

They sound desperate to sell. i would go lower. :wink:

 

[damthatbeaver]

Good God do not buy this car!! I would never buy a car or even spend much time looking at it if it did not start when I first looked at it!! Its a sign buddy...have pateience and let the angels direct you...as they are!! My car was 10,000 less than yours and it started the first time I saw it...and its vents were perfect...and there was no odd sounds coming out of the engine and all hatches closed nicely...and I am not the only one who has encountered such an event when purchasing or even looking for an NSX...what the hell si the dealer doing?...trying to not have you buy the car? Stay away from the car...for 30,000 dollars the car should start...lol...lol...lol...lets get this straight...I can sell you a car that does not start immediately and you would pay me 30,000 dollars?...uhmmm...something stinks...and its not totally coming from the car...it starts with the dealer...

I am out...God's speed everyone

Dam

 

[rickysals]

I didn't read everything, I'm lazy..

but I'd have to say there really isn't such a thing as too picky. You have to be happy with your purchase. If you're willing to wait as long as it takes to meet your standards I say hold out for the perfect car.

good luck

 

[enkrypt3d]

What kind of other records showed up on the carfax? Did the dates vary or were they all posted on the same date? Seems kinda fishy that carfax or the dealer would hold onto records for that long or submit them after so much time has past.

The dates did vary... its very odd that it suddenly showed up....... i dont get it.... sending u a PM

 

[enkrypt3d]

*sigh* the car is sold to someone in Boston :frown: :frown: :frown:

 

[MCM]

Maybe the new buyer took the dealers advice?
(first line in add)

"DONT TRAVEL FROM FAR AWAY TO BE DISAPPOINTED!----"

 

[AdnanVCS]

Re: Am I crazy or...

Does not sound good seen older NSX's in better condition (16 and 15 year old (1991-1992) I would not take it that's what I think