For all the doubters:biggrin:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/03q4/at_last_a_new_nsx-car_news
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/03q4/at_last_a_new_nsx-car_news
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At Last NEW NSX
- Thread starter WingZ
- Start date
LOL What's really bad doc is that article is from 12/03 is that it's stats haven't really changed other than hybrid and 20-50 hp bump. Seriously after almost 10 years??
I want the 3 seconds back you just stole from my life.
But but in 03 it was at last the new NSX:biggrin:
So let me get this right, their going back to the HSC concept LOL :wink:
I think the HSC looks good (except maybe the rear end....)
Perry you're killing me. I was all excited when I saw this thread title!
Sorry counselor:biggrin:
The more I look at it I can see the HSC won't work with Acura current line up looks wise. The hybrid coupe is going to have to follow ASCC/HSV lines unless they completely go to scratch which I doubt.
Man, its been almost 10 years since that hit the print.
I remember it well.
Where did the time go?
I remember it well.
Where did the time go?
I ask myself that question all the time and the older you get the more that has meaning cause you're looking at a lot of 10 year segments.
But to answer this rather rhetorical question - they've gone into the woodwork of making cars that they can profit from. Honda is really still suffering an identity crisis in a way - well at least for the direction they're headed with any type of sports car. Everytime they get ready to come out with one they are one uped on the very idea they were experimenting with. I mean they just aren't a serious sports car manufacturer. The NSX is a great performer but it never advanced - Honda figured - I guess - that it was good enough to make a statement and that's all they needed to do - wrong.
Most of us here are enthusiasts - one hit wonders don't really get it. I gotta admit though that this one was pretty GREAT. If they never make another it was a good run while it lasted. I hope they do but man they have their work cut out for them BIG TIME.
I keep seeing new 911s - how bout the new 4 litre 500 hp GT3 -RS - anyone seen that baby yet? Well how does poor little Honda compete with that?
Later.......
Actually not doing so good
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/21/japan-inc-using-deals-incentives-to-keep-hard-fought-lease-cus/
Honda let the bean counters in and pushed out the enthusiasts. They ruined what made them special to contend with everyone else in the appliance market.
Agreed. Honda has gone from a company run by engineers to a company run by accountants. The engineers used to make great cars that "sold themselves" as Mr. Honda was so fond of saying. Now, the accountants make mediocre "cost-effective" cars and hire a slick ad company to convince consumers to buy them. The Accord just got beat out by a Kia in a recent consumer survey. A Kia.
I agree. This is very true.
However, to Honda's defense and in all fairness, it's easy to say what kind of car we would like. It’s another (completely different) thing to implement it profitably. Let’s not forget, Honda never was a sports car company. Honda made money on cars like the Accord and the Civic. And let’s not forget, Honda never made money on any NSX’s. In fact, they lost a ton of money making the NSX and the last time I checked, car companies that don’t make money on cars they sell don’t usually stick around very long. So if I was trying to run a company and car X made me lots of money and car Y made me lose a ton of money, then why would I even bother with car Y?
Furthermore, let’s just say Honda were to listen to the enthusiasts and try to build a sports car. Well first off, how could they even compete? What could they produce now that could even compare to what is already on the market? From top to bottom you have a full spectrum of offerings already saturated the market. You’ve got the 370Z, Evo, STI, GTR, Corvette, Z06, Z01, 911, R8, Lotus offerings, etc. etc. etc. Even the super low end cars, like the Mazda Speed 3, Hyundai Genesis and such are bridging the performance gap at break neck speeds. The entire price and performance spectrum is completely saturated. I can’t imagine Honda/Acura to be able to develop and produce something that would even compete, let alone be remotely profitable.
Alas, while sad, from a business stand point, it would make almost no sense for Honda to build/develop a standard ICE performance sports car at this time.
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Enthusiasts by more than sportscars. It was an old beater Civic wagon and bad customer service from Nissan that got me into Honda. From there I bought an S2K. Then another , then another till four total. First S2K got me to buy a new NSX. Even picked up a Ridgeline.
When the lease was up on the S2K CR what does Honda have for me. If I sold the NSX what can Acura offer me? I would always talk family members into Honda but why would I now? What's different vs Toyotas , Kias , GM etc.
From a business stand point only Ferrari and Porsche should build sportscars. Honda lost money on the NSX and S2K because they did nothing with them. They didn't have to go crazy but they for the most part abandoned it. Pretty much everything else they have was getting an overhaul every five. The 02 update should have been a 3.5L engine update as well then the HSC should have debuted in 06 as an 07 with the same engine tweaked and SHAWD as an option along with an auto manual.
Seriously the same engine for nine years
I just can't defend or even say "in their defense" as they had a chance for lineage and build up to Porsche sales levels but they dropped the ball. Every possible replacement they showed they pulled back and said "new direction". Seriously how many times can they keep dropping the ball before people now just don't believe them and don't support them.
Honda did not promote the NSX or S2000 adequatley and they never raced them well. You have to make a committment in racing to do well. They haven't been able to do that except on a limited basis or with motorcycles. They race well on 2 wheels. They make great F1 engines and they stopped on LMP1 or was it 2. Anyway, you have to advertise too.
Man I had forgotten all about the NSX years before they stopped making them cause they never advertised them. It's almost like they didn't want to sell them. Weird is all I can say. They are great cars and they could have been a contender but they were ready for the big time. They want the accolades but don't really want to be at the forefront. They just aren't real sports car producers.
I hope that they come out with something that will surprise us but they have been doing a lot of talking for a looooong time with no real results.
All this is going on and the bar is being raised so fast by those that race that it is almost impossible for Honda to catch up now. Look at the new GT3 RS - 4.0 - damn - you think Honda could even get close to that.....no way! You gotta be in the game and stay in the game to be able to produce world class sports cars. Honda isn't there and it would take such an effort that I don't believe they'll ever do anything but a half hearted attempt.
I really believe the reason they scrapped the last NSX "replacement" that they were testing at the ring in 08 was not panning out. They couldn't best the old record they had with the NSX. That new GT3 I mentioned - 7:27 - will match what Walter Rohl did with the Turbo there last year! How the hell can Honda even come close - they can't and whatever they produce will just be a 370Z contender - by the way - how many GT-Rs do you see anyway - Nissans attempt at another ugly car with brute power that I wouldn't even have. It sure is no R8. But Honda is really more like Volkswagon - not like Porsche and everyone knows that. There is no use even comparing it to world class sports car companies - hell Acura is so far from being a Mercedes like car company its not funny and they could easily be! They really can't even keep up with Toyota.
Be glad you have your NSXs and quite worrying about another one. These are really special cars and there are a lot of folks that still wish they could have one like a lot of the lurkers we see come and go around here. There are few serious sports car people that don't know about the NSX but few that want them and they don't konw what they're missing. It is one truly fine sports car! One day I hope more realize that!
Man I had forgotten all about the NSX years before they stopped making them cause they never advertised them. It's almost like they didn't want to sell them. Weird is all I can say. They are great cars and they could have been a contender but they were ready for the big time. They want the accolades but don't really want to be at the forefront. They just aren't real sports car producers.
I hope that they come out with something that will surprise us but they have been doing a lot of talking for a looooong time with no real results.
All this is going on and the bar is being raised so fast by those that race that it is almost impossible for Honda to catch up now. Look at the new GT3 RS - 4.0 - damn - you think Honda could even get close to that.....no way! You gotta be in the game and stay in the game to be able to produce world class sports cars. Honda isn't there and it would take such an effort that I don't believe they'll ever do anything but a half hearted attempt.
I really believe the reason they scrapped the last NSX "replacement" that they were testing at the ring in 08 was not panning out. They couldn't best the old record they had with the NSX. That new GT3 I mentioned - 7:27 - will match what Walter Rohl did with the Turbo there last year! How the hell can Honda even come close - they can't and whatever they produce will just be a 370Z contender - by the way - how many GT-Rs do you see anyway - Nissans attempt at another ugly car with brute power that I wouldn't even have. It sure is no R8. But Honda is really more like Volkswagon - not like Porsche and everyone knows that. There is no use even comparing it to world class sports car companies - hell Acura is so far from being a Mercedes like car company its not funny and they could easily be! They really can't even keep up with Toyota.
Be glad you have your NSXs and quite worrying about another one. These are really special cars and there are a lot of folks that still wish they could have one like a lot of the lurkers we see come and go around here. There are few serious sports car people that don't know about the NSX but few that want them and they don't konw what they're missing. It is one truly fine sports car! One day I hope more realize that!
No the V10 performance tuning had just begun and it's first run was 7:37 so with tuning they could put it into the low 20's. Have to have the go ahead to do that and management just pulled the rug out from under the engineers.
Instead of allowing it to be developed since it had two years till it was to be on sale management just completely scrapped it. Engineering doesn't seem to be the problem but the accountants aren't letting them do anything.
Current line up is not an engineering problem but a management problem as management gives the go ahead as to what to produce not the engineers.
The Cayman from Porsche is an example of this as it's intentionally dialed down to not embarrass the 911.
I've no doubt the V10 would've been extremely competitive as it's dominating the the GTR in racing in Japan with a V8. Honda does well in racing in Japan and the NSX was still being run ( after being discontinued ) until rules would no longer allow mid engine cars.
Follow all the the NSX replacements to see management changes were/are always the problem not the engineers. The NSX in HSC iteration ( it would have been called NSX not HSC ) would have been competitive to this day against the Cayman S the R8 and the 911 but management canceled it to make the ASCC/HSV which was subsequently canceled before it could be completed. All management decisions.
Instead of allowing it to be developed since it had two years till it was to be on sale management just completely scrapped it. Engineering doesn't seem to be the problem but the accountants aren't letting them do anything.
Current line up is not an engineering problem but a management problem as management gives the go ahead as to what to produce not the engineers.
The Cayman from Porsche is an example of this as it's intentionally dialed down to not embarrass the 911.
I've no doubt the V10 would've been extremely competitive as it's dominating the the GTR in racing in Japan with a V8. Honda does well in racing in Japan and the NSX was still being run ( after being discontinued ) until rules would no longer allow mid engine cars.
Follow all the the NSX replacements to see management changes were/are always the problem not the engineers. The NSX in HSC iteration ( it would have been called NSX not HSC ) would have been competitive to this day against the Cayman S the R8 and the 911 but management canceled it to make the ASCC/HSV which was subsequently canceled before it could be completed. All management decisions.
Gotta admit that 7 min 37 sec.s is pretty impressive. That would excite anyone in the car market - did you ever hear what the price point was to be with the V10?
Yep management has ruined things at Honda!
Yep management has ruined things at Honda!
Especially w/o any suspension tuning. Can you imagine if they we able to complete testing?? Thing would've have been a beast! Plus the sound of it was soooo nice.
Price point was supposed to be around $120-150k so less than half a LFA but with equal ( possibly better due to the ASCC/HSV was to have a 8spd tranny with the SHAWD ) to or better performance. GTR is pretty much at $100k as it's jumped $25k since intro , but the Honda would've been the best of both worlds from Nissan and Toyota.
Management ruined pretty much everything about Honda
Perry! I can't believe you're still talking about this.
Doh! Ok I'm shutting up:biggrin:
Let me depart with this vid and and a finger to Ito for killing the greatest Honda not ever made
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpMAfsSk7jM
Honda should now be known as aka the new "GM" becasue their following that road, GM took during the late 80's and 90's until it was late. Top heavy management and out of touch with the public. Honda pay attention, I'd hate to see you end up that way!!!
+1 but I'm not saying anything else.
Hey Wing,
Your right that test mule at the ring would have been a beast with the V10 or even a V8 like their running well when they were allowed to race it. We'll just have to hope and wait to see if they are going to do anything again.
Your right that test mule at the ring would have been a beast with the V10 or even a V8 like their running well when they were allowed to race it. We'll just have to hope and wait to see if they are going to do anything again.
