BBSC runs 1/4 at NOPI Drag Wars

[McAttack]

Originally posted by sjs:
I tried the same process for the McAttack car and got a dump launch of 1300 which yielded 12.08 @ 118.04. Somebody what to burn a run to see if such a low launch works?

The WORST thing I can think of is to have my absolute best time be a 12.08. Being able to "taste" 11's but not attain it? UGH!!!!

RE "burning a run" I accept the challenge.
I'll probably go to the strip tomorrow. Given the date, I'd prefer not to be in the office or thinking too much.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Lud:
Does this software recognize forced induction? Those launch points might make sense for a NA car or one putting down a lot of power down low, but such a low launch point is going to bog on that cars we are discussing.

It has power curve options for NA, SC, turbo, and twin turbo, each have progressively more torque sooner. It does not have forced + nitrous so I twiddle a bit with where the peaks are to try and beef up the bottom, but that’s pretty iffy. I thought it allowed direct manipulation of the curves but I don't see that. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough.

That aside, I would think that a high RPM car (it knows the red line of course) would be assumed to have comparatively little low end torque (as it does in the generated curves), but any kind of boost should then improve bottom end compared to an NA of similar power. So that should mean a lower RPM launch is at least possible. That may be nil at such low RPM for most SCs I suppose. Of course other factors such as gearing, weight and tire size impacts the optimization as well. I may have fudged on the McAttack car, using a turbo mode to help simulate the curve boost of his nitrous shot.

It also takes into account frontal area, coefficient of drag, weight distribution and other things. Pretty neat and good enough for getting theoretical delta numbers for possible mods, but I wouldn’t count on it for much more than that.

 

[Lud]

There is virtually no boost at 1300 RPM with any of the SC systems... And you're not shooting nitrous down there either.... A SC NSX is going to bog hard if you launch it that low.

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by Lud:
There is virtually no boost at 1300 RPM with any of the SC systems... And you're not shooting nitrous down there either.... A SC NSX is going to bog hard if you launch it that low.

Yea I know, that's why I had the smiley when I asked if anyone wanted to "burn a run" to try it. The software obviously has limits, but the idea was to suggest that a lower RPM launch than normally considered might prove useful.

 

[BadCarma]

wow, first id like to say I like the increase of interest in the 1/4 aspect of running the nsx.alot more interest peak then a few months ago but on to the subject.sounds like some of you are getting serious about it.one mod you might have over looked that will have a real effect on et is replacing the stock lsd 1.5 in favor of a two way 2.0. it locks sooner and holds longer for the hole shot and for when you want to put the brakes down after the run.it will remove that back end getting squirrely on the hole shot and reduce tire spin and put the power down alot more even on the run.Steve does your sim software have a provision for two way lsd.plug that in and see what comes up.the DOWN side is it does require I think not sure the short gears or r&P which scott has already(doubt he has any plans to put in a 2 way) but this is just an FYI on two way lsd and what it can do for you at the 1/4 for anyone interested in 1/4 mods.I doubt anyone that tracks their car would change out the lsd for 1/4 mile as it will disadvandage you on the track.but some of you might want it. sos sells a mugen unit that is awesome.
david

 

[smoore]

dave you have the lsd on your car??????? for that kinda momney i'd get something else!!!!!

 

[BadCarma]

Originally posted by smoore:
dave you have the lsd on your car??????? for that kinda momney i'd get something else!!!!!

its worth the cash
david

 

[sjs]

Sorry, no LSD options on this one. Seems odd. There is a parameter for "engine wheel spin decel rate" in rpm/sec which I guess is related to how well an LSD locks up, and other similar inputs. You can adjust everything from relative humidity, barometric pressure and altitude, to wheel/tire weight, rolling resistance and a multitude of mechanical losses. And many more.

I'm not personally interested in drags. I bought this one mostly for quick gearing comparisons and rough acceleration estimates. It was cheap and works better than I had hoped all considered, but you may be able to find better ones if you are really serious.
www.cartest2000.com

 

[SpeedDemon]

McAttack wrote:
The WORST thing I can think of is to have my absolute best time be a 12.08. Being able to "taste" 11's but not attain it?

Last year/last time at the track I ran a 12.04 at about 119. Haven't been back since. How's that for tasting 11's?

I was plenty happy with the time though, I knew that it could have been an 11 if I didn't have half a tank full of gas (91 octane!), or had turned the boost up a little, or had made the run on a colder day instead of a hot summer day, etc. If I hadn't run 11's before in my last car though, I probably would have been back at the track trying to get that elusive 11 (and an 11 is a very elusive thing, let me tell ya)!

With regards to launching at low (1300) RPM's, that's not going to give an optimal timeslip, but I suppose it could net someone a better time than usual if they tend to launch too aggressively and get a lot of wheelspin.

Cont'd..(The msg board won't let me post anything longer)

[This message has been edited by SpeedDemon (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[SpeedDemon]

Where to launch at is really pretty simple

, you want to launch right at the traction limit of the tires (with just a touch of wheelspin to keep the revs up).

Generally speaking, experiment by starting low and then increasing the revs by 400-500 at launch until the tires spin too much, and then back it off a notch.

When I raced my AWD car, I would regularly launch with a full dump at about 4500-4800rpm, because the amount of power the engine made at that point was just a little more than the tires could bear. Gave me a great holeshot + didn't allow the engine to bog (thanks to a little wheelspin). Had a few 1.6 60-foot times on street tires!

When I launched my NSX for that 12.04 run (1.95 60-foot), I probably did it around 3000-3500rpm. Partial gas, I don't think I even got my foot all the way to the floor until I was at 6000+ rpm, maybe higher -- I wanted to ride the tires to their traction limits but not beyond. A 100hp car will beat a 1000hp car off the line every time if the 1000hp car is just burning rubber

(Cont'd)

[This message has been edited by SpeedDemon (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[SpeedDemon]

Also.. Tampa! Nice run! Very nice 60 foot time. Like someone said earlier, if that was your first run (or even close) then you're only going to get faster. As for MPH, yes, the weather can cause havoc there. I've seen a reduction of 3mph on otherwise identical runs, the only difference was the slower run was on a day that was 25 degrees hotter, as well as being more humid.

Well, 'nuff rambling from me tonight..

Marc
97 NSX-T.. Stock gears, stock clutch, stock weight, SO2 street tires, just a lil old Bell TT running 6psi down low and 3psi up-high!

 

[McAttack]

Originally posted by BadCarma:
wow, first id like to say I like the increase of interest in the 1/4 aspect of running the nsx.alot more interest peak then a few months ago but on to the subject.sounds like some of you are getting serious about it.one mod you might have over looked that will have a real effect on et is replacing the stock lsd 1.5 in favor of a two way 2.0. it locks sooner and holds longer for the hole shot and for when you want to put the brakes down after the run.it will remove that back end getting squirrely on the hole shot and reduce tire spin and put the power down alot more even on the run.Steve does your sim software have a provision for two way lsd.plug that in and see what comes up.the DOWN side is it does require I think not sure the short gears or r&P which scott has already(doubt he has any plans to put in a 2 way) but this is just an FYI on two way lsd and what it can do for you at the 1/4 for anyone interested in 1/4 mods.I doubt anyone that tracks their car would change out the lsd for 1/4 mile as it will disadvandage you on the track.but some of you might want it. sos sells a mugen unit that is awesome.
david

A couple questions on this:

I think the SOS web site offers it only for 91-95 years. Anything for '99?

Why are the mod gears and r&p needed?

Would different springs, shocks (adj) be better less $$ options b4 getting to the LSD?

Finally, in addition to 285/30/18's I also have 245/40/17's I could throw on for the night. Both sets are Bridgestone SO3's. Would that matter?

TIA

 

[MrBrian]

awesome results

there should be little doubt that with a great launch(non-bogging) and stickier tires, you'll be around 12 flat and maybe 11.9x if you took off the wing. i heard it robs you of at least 25hp

 

[smoore]

Originally posted by MrBrian:


i heard it robs you of at least 25hp

??????????



[This message has been edited by smoore (edited 12 September 2002).]

 

[MrBrian]

*shakes head*

in terms of relative loss of hp due to drag, not the dyno...geezus lol

 

[nsxlr8]

When I was running 120 mph in the quarter +/- a .5mile or so, my times were 11.8-11.6's. Sticky tires. (Micky T - ET Streets) Stock gears, no mods - Nitrous If you're running 119, your definately in the 11's.

 

[TampaBayNSX-R]

nsxlr8,
When you were running 11.6-11.8 et's, do you recall what your 60' times were? I'm curious to know how much time you saved off the line with the stickier tires. TIA

 

[nsxlr8]

reaction times don't matter unless you're racing someone else. the timing doesn't start until after your rear wheel crosses the beam .

My 60's averaged about 1.9. sometimes 1.8 my best was 1.75. Those times were on 1.9 60'times. I don't spray out of the hole. if the car bogs, the likelyhood of blowing up my air filter increases greatly! so I jump out of the hole with no nitrous. The slicks keep the tires from spinning in 2nd and third. Yes, they spin ALOT in 2nd and a little in 3rd without slicks. stock 5spd.
I've since added a window switch that will automatically shut down the nitrous below 3Krpms. So I spray out of the hole now with no worries. (When a few of the body panels aren't ripped up from accidents)

 

[Attitude Adjuster]

Originally posted by Number9:
I don't know what debate this data is supposed to settle, but it does add a few data points to the chart posted earlier on this forum - it puts the BBSC just ahead of a well driven coupe with slicks and just behind the 3.0L CTSC (don't know if this is with or without slicks):

Norm Aspirated - dswartz - 12.53 - 111.45 - 8.08 - 88.39 - 1.86
NOS - 4g62bt2c30a - 12.53 - 117 - x - x - 2.20
NOS - NosNsx - 12.2 - 113 - x - x - x
Supercharged - Attitude Adjuster - 12.37 - 114.12 - 8.05 - 89.90 - 1.98
Turbocharged - Gerry - 11.94 - 125.2 - 7.952 - 95.4 - 2.162
Outright Fastest - nsxlr8 - 11.60 - 120.00 - x - x - 1.75

This was me and was not with slicks. 225 15s nitto street tires not slicks or drag slicks.

This was with stock exhaust and cats. The car was not gutted (even had the floor mats).

------------------
Kenji Ligon
91 Red CTSC NSX

[This message has been edited by Attitude Adjuster (edited 26 February 2003).]

 

[ANYTIME]

Originally posted by Number9:


Norm Aspirated - dswartz - 12.53 - 111.45 - 8.08 - 88.39 - 1.86
NOS - 4g62bt2c30a - 12.53 - 117 - x - x - 2.20
NOS - NosNsx - 12.2 - 113 - x - x - x
Supercharged - Attitude Adjuster - 12.37 - 114.12 - 8.05 - 89.90 - 1.98
Turbocharged - Gerry - 11.94 - 125.2 - 7.952 - 95.4 - 2.162
Outright Fastest - nsxlr8 - 11.60 - 120.00 - x - x - 1.75

Forgot about

TwinTurbo - SpeedDemon/Marc Struhl - 12.04 - 118.35 - 7.86 - 93.57 - 1.955

 

[Gerry Johnson]

I have ran my car one more time since the 11.90 pass and still with a 2.21 60 ft and having to lift off the throttle once in third and again after going into fourth I managed to run a 11.54 @ 125.3mph,
I1 2.211
I2 4.986
I3 7.533 I3mph 97.672
I4 9.713
ET 11.54 @125.3mph

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Now that is cookin'

------------------
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[TypeR 599]

that's a great 1/4 time. congrats

 

[Rubber Chicken]

Originally posted by Gerry Johnson:
I have ran my car one more time since the 11.90 pass and still with a 2.21 60 ft and having to lift off the throttle once in third and again after going into fourth I managed to run a 11.54 @ 125.3mph,
I1 2.211
I2 4.986
I3 7.533 I3mph 97.672
I4 9.713
ET 11.54 @125.3mph

Why'd you have to lift off the gas?

[This message has been edited by Rubber Chicken (edited 06 March 2003).]

 

[Gerry Johnson]

The car is under alot of stress when it is in third and forth gear at 15psi it tends to twist the car enough to make it want to go into the other lane, lifting alows the car to settle and for me to keep the car in my lane.