Bleeding the ABS system without the Bleeder T wrench?

[goldNSX]

I don't have the Bleeder T wrench and read carefully this: http://www.danoland.com/nsxgarage/brakes/abs/abs.htm
I've asked myself if this is a good way to flush the ABS system described under 'Solenoid Flush'? My concern is that there is a lot of old fluid remaining unpressurized in the system with only this method, no? Any inputs?

 

[OLDMNSX]

Hey Gold, When you do the "DANO" flush by activating the individual modulator valves it is in essence flushing the fluid out of the accumulator. The only problem with this is that the fluid from the accumulator goes to the modulators and returns in the fluid reservoir. I guess that you could activate the individual modulators until the accumulator was out of pressure, suck all of the fluid out of the reservoir, so the dirty fluid was not pumped back into the accumulator. Then refill with clean, activate the pump, adding fluid as required till the pump stops and then disconnect the pump power and do the indivudual modulator valves till the pressure was gone or until the fluid was clean. I don't think that you would have to do it more than 2 or 3 times. Be sure to leave the small strainer in the fluid reservoir since it will keep any small particles from getting back into the pump.

I just received a used modulator body from a fellow prime member today. I am going to disect the thing and figure out what makes it tick. I suspect that what I will be able to do is figure what size O-rings are needed to rebuild one of these. It can't be too complicated. After all, the modulator body is nothing more that four electro-hydraulic valves that are controled by the ABS computer. I believe that the problem we are having with our units is that the O-rings, now 16 years old, are sitting in one spot for extended periods of time and when they are moved by a modulator valve activation that a small piece of the O-ring is being torn off causing a leak. The tear is coming from the O-ring drying onto the side of the housing. When I flushed my unit I had these small black particles. Where else could them come from. Just my hypothisis. Anyone have a better one?

Brad

 

[Daedalus]

I've wondered why you can't bleed the system the intended way, just without the special tool. Contact switches are easily found. Run a small hose from the bleeder nipple to a waste container, and open and close the bleeder fitting with a crescent wrench.

 

[goldNSX]

I've wondered why you can't bleed the system the intended way, just without the special tool. Contact switches are easily found. Run a small hose from the bleeder nipple to a waste container, and open and close the bleeder fitting with a crescent wrench.

Please carefully read section Bleeding the system, CAUTION: http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/1a/a7/9e/0900823d801aa79e/repairInfoPages.htm

The Honda ALB system is underpressure. I don't think the BOSCH type is.

 

[Daedalus]

I understand it's under pressure. You're bleeding a high pressure system to atmospheric. Normal brake bleeding isn't too different--pressurize the system and open a valve. The fluid pressure zeroes out once it leaves the system--you can open the bleeder slowly to limit the flow volume. I bled the system with Drew's tool, but when I was done I didn't think the tool was entirely necessary, though extremely convenient.

 

[drew]

The problem is getting access to the bleeder nipple....it is well recessed and uses a square drive....and it also comes from the factory with a bright red cover.

They obviously made it difficult for a reason...you can probably lose an eye or get skin injection poisoning if you are not careful. The tool takes out all the guesswork, adds a lot of safety and a lot less mess.

I can see replacing the nipple with a taller hex and using a longer hose to drain off the fluid. There was some NSX'er on the list that used a small open end wrench with a hose and did just fine.

Heh, my bleeder tool has been around now for about 6 years up and down the USA. I was hoping that other people would donate tools for the list to borrow and send around, but nobody else has taken up the cause.

Drew

 

[goldNSX]

The problem is getting access to the bleeder nipple....it is well recessed and uses a square drive....and it also comes from the factory with a bright red cover.

They obviously made it difficult for a reason...

Yes, that's the case. I've tried to open it but then I saw the square drive. I think it's no danger to open it if you releave all the pressure by opening a solenoid (BUT I COULD BE WRONG HERE).

So I'm talking as an experienced bleeder now as I DID IT! It took me two hours with the soldering of the harness which is acceptable for me doing it the first time. And it's REALLY FUN working on the car and flush the solenoids! I was generous on the DOT 4 as I've used 3 bottles of 0.5 l, too much I think but it was worth it. When I first opened a solenoid I got a mess out of the bottle (overflowing). Ok, still learning. :wink: The annoying part was that the are male and female plugs on the solenoids as I've expected only male ones. While sucking the old fluid out of the bottle with a turkey blaster I first didn't remove the filter and saw that there is quite much oil fluid left.

Next week, the Speed bleeders will be installed and the rest of the system gets flushed.

 

[goldNSX]

Heh, my bleeder tool has been around now for about 6 years up and down the USA. I was hoping that other people would donate tools for the list to borrow and send around, but nobody else has taken up the cause.

Drew

Do you also lend it to people overseas? Turn-around-time is higher, that's the drawback.

 

[MvM]

Yes, that's the case. I've tried to open it but then I saw the square drive. I think it's no danger to open it if you releave all the pressure by opening a solenoid (BUT I COULD BE WRONG HERE).

So I'm talking as an experienced bleeder now as I DID IT! It took me two hours with the soldering of the harness which is acceptable for me doing it the first time. And it's REALLY FUN working on the car and flush the solenoids! I was generous on the DOT 4 as I've used 3 bottles of 0.5 l, too much I think but it was worth it. When I first opened a solenoid I got a mess out of the bottle (overflowing). Ok, still learning. :wink: The annoying part was that the are male and female plugs on the solenoids as I've expected only male ones. While sucking the old fluid out of the bottle with a turkey blaster I first didn't remove the filter and saw that there is quite much oil fluid left.

Next week, the Speed bleeders will be installed and the rest of the system gets flushed.

Thomas,
Are you talking about bleeding the ABS-system here or just the brakes.
I would love to see a nice DIY-write up on this here on Prime :smile:

 

[goldNSX]

Thomas,
Are you talking about bleeding the ABS-system here or just the brakes.
I would love to see a nice DIY-write up on this here on Prime :smile:

Marteen,

I was talking about the ABS system only. :wink: One excellent write-up can be found at danoland.com.
I've recently registrated my own website mainly for write-up's in English of the work that will be done on my car. But it only makes sense for project not having been documentated by somebody else like danoland.com. But it's too early to let you know the address. :wink:
The main problem is holding the camera with filthy hands or regarding this day with hands full of brake fluid and concentrating on the things to be done. Ok, the write-up's get more funny the more mistakes happen with always the same last picture which shows me standing in a mess of parts I don't know where they belong to. But I always photograph the parts I'm working on BEFORE I work on it just to have a reference.

 

[MvM]

Since I neither have the T-wrench nor the switch to activate the ABS pump,
I was wondering if one could do a partial ABS brake fluid.

By this I mean to just suck out the fluid from the ABS reservoir and replace that with fresh fluid. And perhaps, after that, activate the ABS several times to get the ABS pump working and then check the reservoir again and maybe redo the operation.
Does anyone know how much fluid there is in the ABS system?

 

[goldNSX]

Since I neither have the T-wrench nor the switch to activate the ABS pump,
I was wondering if one could do a partial ABS brake fluid.

By this I mean to just suck out the fluid from the ABS reservoir and replace that with fresh fluid. And perhaps, after that, activate the ABS several times to get the ABS pump working and then check the reservoir again and maybe redo the operation.
Does anyone know how much fluid there is in the ABS system?

Having the T wrench is first best, doing it without it but according to danoland.com is second best and doing it your way is third best. :wink: If you only suck out the old fluid you still have a lot of pressurized fluid in the ABS system. If you want to change that too you first have to open a solenoid. The fluid level in the bottle begins zu rise. After that you take a turkey blaster and suck it out and fill with new fluid and activate the ABS pump to suck it in the ABS system again. Very simple and quite fun to work with. The tools described are very, very simple for DIY. You only need one switch and some cables.

 

[drew]

By this I mean to just suck out the fluid from the ABS reservoir and replace that with fresh fluid. And perhaps, after that, activate the ABS several times to get the ABS pump working and then check the reservoir again and maybe redo the operation.

No, that is less than a half measure and is almost as good as doing nothing at all. Brake fluid tends to layer and you want to get the "stagnant" fluid out of the bottom of the system.

You don't even need a switch: the first time I did it used two wires and touched them together when I needed to make the connection. As per Dano, just pull the relays and carefully make sure you use the proper connector leads.

The nipple thread is probably standard, so you should be able to easily replace it with something taller and a little more easy to deal with.

Drew

 

[goldNSX]

Doing it with the solenoid flush is the best way IMO as they get activated.

The switch for the ABS pump is very helpful. The switch for the solenoid is not needed IMO. You have to be careful here (short circuits).

 

[goldNSX]

I did the brakes tonight too. I've installed the speed bleeders and they work fine. Wearing one-way-gloves makes it more easier as I avoid getting brake fluid on everything I touch. The fluid in the clutch system was really dark. I has been refresh two years ago. I didn't expect that. So flushing on a yearly base is a good thing. The fluid in the calipers looked like new. A toothbrush is a good cleaning tool for the bleeders to avoid getting dirt in the system while mounting the speed bleeders. Pic 5680 is for MvM as it shows the simple switch to activate the ABS pump I've used for the ABS only. You don't need that for bleeding the brake system.

 

[goldNSX]

I'll do a detailled write-up on my website soon. The work is not finished yet as I have to check for leaks first before I go on the road. But once again it's a good feeling working on the car and you don't have to drive to your mechanic. One more degree of freedom. This week I'll flush the gearbox oil just for fun.

 

[maxio]

I did the brakes tonight too. I've installed the speed bleeders and they work fine. Wearing one-way-gloves makes it more easier as I avoid getting brake fluid on everything I touch. The fluid in the clutch system was really dark. I has been refresh two years ago. I didn't expect that. So flushing on a yearly base is a good thing. The fluid in the calipers looked like new. A toothbrush is a good cleaning tool for the bleeders to avoid getting dirt in the system while mounting the speed bleeders. Pic 5680 is for MvM as it shows the simple switch to activate the ABS pump I've used for the ABS only. You don't need that for bleeding the brake system.

Thanks for your reply,
my English is not good ,
danoland the procedure is not clear for me,
I see that you have an alternative procedure,

You can do the cleaning ALB:
- activating the pump ALB
- open the bleed screws on the brake calipers

without having to open the solenoid valve ?

Thanks.
Maurizio.
ITALY

 

[goldNSX]

Thanks for your reply,
my English is not good ,
danoland the procedure is not clear for me,
I see that you have an alternative procedure,

You can do the cleaning ALB:
- activating the pump ALB
- open the bleed screws on the brake calipers

without having to open the solenoid valve ?

Thanks.
Maurizio.
ITALY

Just saw you brought an old thread back to life.

The danoland is pretty straithforward, I didn't do anything else than mentioned. The 'alternative' version is also described by danoland.

The ALB is a separate system to bleed. You DON'T open the brake caliper screw after activating the ALB pump. This won't hurt but it doesn't help either.

You fill up the ALB reservoir and activate the pump for about 30 seconds by a switch danoland describes. the fluid level is getting low, fill it up before you get air in the system. You then activate the soleniods (also described), the fluid rushs back in the reservoir. If you do it too long you'll have a mess on the garage floor. Suck it out with a pipe and fill in new fluid - activate pump - activate soleniods - suck old fluid out and fill in new - activate pump.......and so on until you run out of fluid.

The only big fault you can do is acting the pump for more than 30 seconds. You're bypassing the pressure switch with this method so noone than you will stop the pressure rise. :wink:

The conventional hydraulic brake system is bleeded separately.

Have fun with it!

 

[OLDMNSX]

Maurizio.
I have been messing with the ABS system for a while now and have discovered a few things.
1. You don't need the T-Handle bleeder to do a flush of the ABS system. Save yourself $110.
2. DanO did a great job on his DIY for the ABS system, but I think that you need to keep the old fluid from getting in with the fresh new fluid.
3. You can check some of my posts and read (pictures included) on what I think is the best way to flush the ABS system.
4. I have been very successful with my procedure.
5. It isn't very expensive to build your own tools to do this procedure.
6. Drop me an e-mail if you need more explaination.
Brad

 

[maxio]

Thanks to you all,
Today I managed to open the bleed screw,
without using the T-wrench,
I did the washing the ALB,
seems to go much better,
You have helped me a lot.
Bye.

 

[VampNSXX]

Is there a way to always have the ABS off? My ABS is always making noise now on the black nsx. I know about the one click on the e brake but I just want that to always be off untill I fix it. Any way of doing this?

 

[pgilliam1]

Is there a way to always have the ABS off? My ABS is always making noise now on the black nsx. I know about the one click on the e brake but I just want that to always be off untill I fix it. Any way of doing this?

I have heard that you just disconnect the connector closest to the firewall under the ABS unit and it's disabled.

 

[VampNSXX]

I have heard that you just disconnect the connector closest to the firewall under the ABS unit and it's disabled.

ill try that this weekend. thanks

 

[OLDMNSX]

I have heard that you just disconnect the connector closest to the firewall under the ABS unit and it's disabled.

This is the connector that goes to the pressure switch at the accumulator. Yes, this is where you disconnect and INSTALL a jumper on the two wires in the connector on the vehicle harness side. By installing the jumper wire you are giving the ABS ECU the message that the pressure is UP to spec in the modualtor. This keeps the ECU from turning the pump ON. Once you remove the ABS fuse for 10 sec and then replace it the ABS caution warning light will not come on again.
Brad

 

[VampNSXX]

This is the connector that goes to the pressure switch at the accumulator. Yes, this is where you disconnect and INSTALL a jumper on the two wires in the connector on the vehicle harness side. By installing the jumper wire you are giving the ABS ECU the message that the pressure is UP to spec in the modualtor. This keeps the ECU from turning the pump ON. Once you remove the ABS fuse for 10 sec and then replace it the ABS caution warning light will not come on again.
Brad

do you have a picture of what wire you are talking about?

what if you just diconect it and leave it that way what will happen?